Onto the Pony Planet--Chapter 20 Notes · 12:43am Nov 30th, 2014
Onto the Pony Planet
Chapter 20 notes
A huge thanks to my pre-readers and creative consultants: Humanist, AnormalUnicornPony, metallusionsismagic, AShadowOfCygnus, bitbrony, MSPiper, MrZJunior, Forderz, Woonsocket Wrench, and my parents.
Sorry about the non-concurrent posting; my internet at home was down, and this wasn't online yet. I used the computer at work to publish the chapter, but had no way to access the blog post.
Tiberius is Luna's pet opossum.
Marseille is the second-largest city in Prance. As a major historical trading hub, it has a diverse culture.
The Macatawa bank is a real bank, and there is one near Dale's house. Supposedly, it has safe-deposit boxes (according to YellowBook.com).
Mr. Vandervoort is a reference to The Moneychangers, by Arthur Hailey. It's a book about a bank, and Alex Vandervoort is a high-ranking executive, vying for the vacant CEO position.
I'm probably playing a little bit loose with the evidence rules here. Probably, Moller and Richter should have had an evidence tech with them at the bank, and printed the box before anyone opened it (we can assume that they checked the key at Dale's house). They probably ought to have printed the tube and the papers—if they don't, a defense attorney might be able to get them tossed out as evidence.
I think, though, that since they are working a kidnapping case (as far as they know), they'd consider it more prudent to read the paper they found as quickly as possible, on the off chance that it gives them a clue about where to find Kate. Anyone who's familiar with police or FBI procedure is free to weigh in, and tell me how wrong I am.
Finally, 
For those of you who are interested, a ton of the comics are available digitally as a humble bundle.
.
I've been re-reading CSI and I was wondering about the astronomy book Dale gave them and their continued references to our sun orbiting our planet. Have you given thought as to how the ponies' solar system actually works? Is Celestia really pushing around a 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg nuclear furnace? She's either insanely powerful; she's not actually moving the sun but doing something else; or that is not a sun but something else.
Heliocentrism
2623847
The good news is that I don't have to answer that for the purposes of this story.
Permanent Temporary and I discussed this via PMs, and came up with a number of theories about the pony solar system, and how it could function, and what the drawbacks to each were. If their sun was full-sized, she couldn't move it, no matter how magically powerful she was: she'd move Equestria instead, because it has less mass. It would be like trying to pull a railroad car, while standing on a skateboard -- you'd move, and the train car wouldn't, no matter how strong you were.
I was always a fan of her guiding the sun, not moving it wholesale. Keeping it on a steady course. Of course, more recent episodes have shown that the sun can stop in place. Now my working theory is that it's closer, smaller, and magic in nature.
Tiberius is definitely something from the comics that would be nice in canon. Heck, I'd like to see Luna at a pet play date with the mane 6 and T.
2623883
We can hope that happens in Season 5. Really, Luna needs more love. I'm glad she's got such a strong presence in the comics.
Have you read Drawn With the Night? I have enjoyed it and its sequel a lot, I wont reveal the plot but the MC ends up going into manufacturing. It reminds me of pony planet in someways, I like it when all of the parts of a story fit together.
2623924
No, I haven't. I'll have to check it out.
To keep it "our-verse" compatible:
Rogue planet (free flying through space without solar system) , stuffed with long gone aliens' passive-AI that "listens" and makes "magic" happen. (Think Star Trek's Q's toy / long abandoned experiment with life's creation)
Powered by technobabble-black holes-singularity battery-inside planet core-whatever.
Their sun is force field held simulation of a proper star.
Much smaller, much closer - so no problems with 8 minutes long delay of light, mass, etc.
(If you want more: The AI - can and do cheat - so you can handwave Marea's (the ponies' planet's name I like the most) similarity to Earth, Discord = AI's avatar keeping things rolling)
The less details, the better.
---
That Prance is looking nice ;)
2623941
I'm actually going to write a one-shot with that premise.
Exactly! I don't have to explain the technical details, so I don't. I've been meaning to write a blog post on that topic.
2623960
I know there's a story out there somewhere with a similar premise: the protagonists find a planet with what seems to be working magic, but turns out to be the result of a forgotten weather-control system (and the locals have nearly burned it out from misuse). I'd definitely be interested to see a ponified take on the concept.
2623979
There's a vague sense of that in Ringworld (almost nobody remembers the machines that make the world work). Probably not what you're thinking of, though.
2624004
fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/133/2/f/my_little_puppeteer__cowardice_is_life_by_imperator_zor-d656hv4.jpg
2624095
It's been so long since I read the Ringworld books.
2624004
It's certainly not the first Ringworld book, and I rather doubt it's a sequel: the description doesn't really match up. Unfortunately, I can't really help figure it out, as I haven't actually read the story in question; I've just seen it referenced on TV Tropes a few times, and for some reason the idea stuck with me.
2624166
Same.... I ought to go see if any local libraries have his stuff.
2623941
I'm not an astronomer but I think a smaller, closer star would also have to be a lot hotter if you wanted the light to look like what we have with our own sun and that brings up all kinds of problems with increased radiation and the strength of the planet's magnetic field, etc. You could have planets around a red dwarf star but the light would be, well, red.
Stellar classification
Habitability of red dwarf systems
Actually, Moller and Richter would have had evidence techs from the field office's Evidence Response Team with them at the bank, impounded the whole box (and inconvenience to Vandervoort be damned), then, given that it's a kidnapping of a Coast Petty Officer with Homeland Security implications, arguably would have flown it directly to the FBI Lab at Quantico, where it would have been processed immediately upon arrival. For everything... Digital photos would've been shot of the notes at the earliest opportunity, and sent back to the field office via secure e-mail. (Sorry, but you did ask...)
OTOH, that would limit what you can do dramatically with Moller and Ritter bumping heads over the X-Files-ish turn the investigation is taking, so, stet...
[BTW, the Bureau's pdf handbook describing lab capabilities for Quantico is available here: Handbook of Forensic Services]
Also, while I'm thinking about it, perfectly in-character (institutionally speaking) for the guys at MSU to refuse to give a definitive answer about the DNA profile from that hair follicle and wander off muttering about equipment malfunctions. After all, from their perspective, which is more likely? A) that you've extracted a DNA profile from a species that does not exist on Earth? Or, B) that your equipment is out of calibration and giving you anomalous results, or you missed a step in your analysis protocol, or your sample was cross-contaminated and you haven't isolated the target material properly, or you're looking at the gel cross-eyed, or anything BUT minty-green technicolor cartoon horsies...
Nice touch, there
2624217
And even a red dwarf would . . . well, dwarf an Earth-sized planet. One thing I thought of is that Equestria is a dead star in a binary star system. I don't know if that's actually possible, and even if it were, the surface gravity would probably be so high, Dale and Kate would be crushed flat the moment they arrived.
Saw that! Thought it was awesome. But have the real ones... so...
Also... TIBBLES!
2624234
Yeah, I suspected that the evidence techs would take everything of interest (so, everything), process it, and then give Moller and Richter the results when they were done looking at it. They probably wouldn't be too happy about Moller sending some of the evidence off to MSU, either (or, for that matter, Richter sending a book to Grey's School of Wizardry). I did think of that, but it would have killed the momentum.
There probably are some cases where they don't process evidence normally, if they think they can make a court case without it, or if they have a fear of another crime potentially being committed, but such situations are probably few and far between.
I had some discussions with my ex-girlfriend, who actually was a tech at MSU who worked with DNA, and she sent me a few very useful e-mails about what the lab would do, how they'd process the hair, what they might or might not find, and how the process would work (or wouldn't).
It's been brought up before, but it's worth bringing up again: the biggest problem for the humans who are trying to solve this thing is how fragmented the evidence is going to get during the process, and nobody's going to know what somebody else saw. All the DNA guys know about the hair is that they can't get a valid sample, which could be for lots of reasons. They don't know about the books, or anything else. It's only when all the pieces start to be put together that a clear pattern emerges.
2624260
But for a few dollars, you can also have the digital copies, which you can put on your phone and take anywhere.
2624247
Yeah, stellar remnants don't work like that, They can't evolve into planets.
Stellar remnants
2624217
That's why it would be small (~moon sized) white hot plasma ball compressed, shielded and powered by
magictechnobabble technology.Not "natural" system.
And how does it work?
2624281
Although it might hypothetically be possible to artificially turn stellar remnants into a planet (in the same way that a Ringworld is hypothetically possible).
My current line of thinking is that their sun is only slightly larger than their moon, is slightly further away (Luna eclipsed the sun in a flashback scene, and the sun's corona was visible), and works on some sort of completely unknown principle.
2624269 Yeah, I figured that "by-the-book" would screw up the story and its pacing, so, as I said, stet. On a special job like this one, though, they'd pass results as quickly as possible, so Moller and Richter (Just realized I'd written "Ritter" in my earlier post - oops) could act on it, and could conceivably have the same conversation you've portrayed, albeit a bit later than you showed,
But, as long as chain-of-custody is maintained, and you can articulate your reasons for deviating from standard procedure at the inevitable evidentiary hearing, and the Court finds your actions and reasoning to make sense and don't violate the rights of the accused, you can do quite a bit that you wouldn't ordinarily be able to do - as I said, the national-security implications of a kidnapping of a Coastie (and the Coast Guard is currently under DHS) lends urgency that supports an "Exigent Circumstances" exception that forgives much, For example, MSU is close, they specialize in Veterinary Forensics and Quantico doesn't, so that gives Moller an alibi on his sending the hair samples outside the FBI Lab system - so long as both he and the MSU lab personnel can testify that they had control of the item of evidence such that it could not have been lost, contaminated, or tampered with, it's admissible.
And sorry, didn't mean to digress into an esoteric discussion of rules of evidence, when the point is already excused by story requirements.,. Just trying to say that the moves your characters have made are entirely reasonable...
2624291 was that an inertial damper Star Trek reference there?
2624306
2624291
It's magic.
2624336
I have been trying to keep to chain-of-custody rules whenever I can (kind of screwed up on the safety-deposit box, though). For expedience in the case, I wonder if an experienced investigator sometimes considers something which might provide invaluable evidence in solving the case, but would have little to no value in court? He's got enough eyewitnesses and forensic evidence on the island to prove--beyond a reasonable doubt--that Kate went there, and that Dale kidnapped her. They have every reason to believe that he hasn't been back to his house since then, and it would be a reasonable assumption he also hasn't gone to the bank in that time, so the only possible value the contents of the box might have in court is proving premeditation. However, when it comes to finding Kate, the document could potentially give them the lead they need, and they'd both know that the quicker they can figure out where she is, the better chance they have of bringing her back alive.
I don't know if that's how a detective would really think, but that's kind of how I justified it in my mind.
2624395
Oh, detectives consider what they know-but-can't-prove-in-court all the time. The technical term is, "Investigative Lead", Forensically, a CODIS match is considered an investigative lead until it's confirmed by obtaining a new DNA sample (with chain-of-custody intact) of the suspect identified by CODIS, per FBI policy, because it's considered too cumbersome to draw up the chain-of-custody of the technician or officer who took the known sample for CODIS, then the technicians who verified the identity of the source of the known sample for CODIS entry (usually by fingerprints, remarkably enough!), then the forensic biologist who extracted the DNA profile from the known sample, et cetera... Or, a tip from Crimestoppers is an investigative lead, and can (with corroborating evidence of equal or greater weight) be used to support a finding of sufficient Probable Cause to get an arrest warrant, even if the Crimestoppers tip, being anonymous, can never be used in Court (6th Amendment right to confront your accuser doesn't obtain in Crimestoppers tips if the other evidence is righteous and admissible).
In National Security investigations, the Bureau has semi-admitted that they're willing to sacrifice being able to earn a conviction in favor of breaking up any terrorist plots that pose a risk to the public as early as 2003 (can't find a specific source document, sorry). Plus, of course, the urgency of trying to bring back a kidnap victim alive (although, realistically, the chances of recovering a kidnap victim alive, as I understand it, are almost negligible after 48 hours or so - this is supposedly based on FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit stats, among other sources, but it's not my domain of expertise and I don't have a specific source document at hand for this, either, sorry...)
Changing subjects slightly, Dale, at this point, is a "material witness" to Kate's kidnapping, not necessarily her kidnapper (although he's certainly a prime suspect, at least for "Complicity in" or "Accessory to" - Moller and Richter have surely assembled enough evidence to realize that, whatever his involvement might or might not be, Dale Paard simply didn't have the capability to act as a principal in the abduction of Petty Officer Katherine [last name? It's embarrassing to ask, but could you maybe provide a cribsheet of dramatis personae for those of us who can't recall details offhand without an investigator's notebook?
)
Ultimately, I believe that this whole digression is moot - it makes a good story, and the technical glitches are minor, and do not detract in the least from storytelling, and, in fact, editing to include them wound destroy the narrative...
[In other, admittedly getting perilously close to shameless self-promotion,
news, this discussion inspired me to offer my services to the Fandom as a subject-matter-expert.... just did a blogpost to make the offer...]
2624498
That kind of thinking was one of the reasons I made a point early on about both Moller and Richter being more concerned with getting Kate back than securing a conviction. It gave me a little bit of latitude for when I short-cut proper procedure.
True. We, the audience, know that he didn't do it directly (although he certainly falls under the category of 'accessory'). Regardless, they've got enough witness testimony to charge him for attacking three Coasties. . . .
I can do that. It's not complete, but I think it's got all the major characters listed (and a few we haven't seen). I can't always keep all the characters straight, either.
CSI/OPP Dramaturge
Agreed. It's one of the places where I fudged the details for dramatic effect. Nobody wants a chapter where they get the warrant for the bank, and then the evidence techs swoop in, take everything back to Quantico, and two weeks later, Moller and Richter learn about the hair and the 'manifesto.'
2624336
No apologies necessary. I (and I'm sure many more of Admiral Biscuit's fans) enjoy a good digression into esoteric discussions of relevant subjects (or even irrelevant ones). One of the many things I like about the Admiral is his notes blogs, which are only enhanced when someone who knows more on a subject than he does adds his/her two bits.
In short, thank you for digressing into an esoteric discussion of rules of evidence.
2624733
I know I do.
Seconded!
2623869
There's also the other possibility that there is no Sun and Moon or stars as we know it in the Equestrian sky. For all we know, the planet Equis is inside a Dyson Sphere and the celestial objects are far far smaller than they would seem to a ground-bound observer. This would allow for the Sun and Moon to go willy-nilly and not really affect the planet much while also allowing for Luna to make whatever pattern of 'stars' that she wishes to on the walls of the Dyson Sphere. Since no one besides Luna has ever gotten past the lower atmosphere, not to mention the lack of science invested towards space, it would be almost impossible for ponies to figure out.
Of course, what the Sun and stars are made of is speculative. Concentrated magic? Sure, we can go with that. Bright and warm without irradiating everything in lethal charged particles and cosmic rays.
Also... ahh! I so wish I was Kathy, I wanna pet and scritch and pester all the cute ponies too.
2629637
For the sake of this story, they have a physical sun and moon, and beyond Equestria lies space. However, your thought is a good one, and I'm actually planning to use something along those lines for an upcoming story.
My theory on that is that the stars are captured asteroids. In close orbit, she can arrange them how she pleases, and from the ground, they'd look like stars in the reflected light of Equestria and the moon.
Maybe it's just a really big incandescent light bulb.
2624498
2625721
Actually, I would like to thank the both of you for this discussion. It's actually rather relevant for my own story. Though the chances of anyone actually seeing the processes going on behind the scenes are pretty much nil. Keeping the results consistent is important though.
2629637
Has it actually been said anywhere in canon that Luna messes with the stars?
2632909
I am not Brony enough to know that I'm afraid.
I mean, I think she has (arranging a meteor shower that the Mane 6 and sisters went to see with Spike ending up in the punch bowl asleep) but I could be completely mistaken.
2632909
No prob! As always, I'm willing to lend some help where needed.
It's kind of depressing sometimes to have done tons of work on a background detail which never winds up making it into the text, but is important to the story. Like the telegraph system in OPP. . . .
Off the top of my head, I can't remember. But, I have several PMs back and forth with a pre-reader/collaborator discussing the topic, so I have to think that it is. If it wasn't explicitly mentioned in an episode, I don't think I would have worried so much about it.
Might have been in the very opening of FiM 1 & 2--and there were four stars that moved into the moon before NMM came back.
2634540
I remember all that. It doesn't mention Luna messing with the stars, just the moon. Not sure whether she actually had anything to do with the four stars that freed Nightmare Moon - though it seems likely - so that could just be a celestial convergence.
See, I also remember taking part in this discussion elsewhere and I don't think that Luna has ever modified the stars in the show, or claimed that she could. I remember that being entirely a fan creation. (Though I admit I could be forgetting some small, hidden line that contradicts me here.) It may just be so prevalent because it's easy to assume that since Luna moves the moon, she also plays with the stars. Since, y'know, both are nighttime objects... Even if that doesn't actually make the association a certainty.
2632909
Glad to help, even by chance!
2634607
Yeah, I don't have a for-sure answer yet. I might have to go through the transcripts and figure it out for sure. The wiki wasn't any help, to be honest. It might be something that's implied, rather than implicitly stated, or it might be something from the fandom that they never said in the show.
But if you want a reasonable explanation for how Luna moves the stars, I can send you a PM that explains it all.
2634747
No thanks. That's alright. I have my own headcanon and it works just fine.
2634808
2634813
Fine, fine. I know how much you love explaining things. Send me the PM.
2634817
Done!
For what it's worth, I did a quick search of the transcripts of seasons 1-3, and never found anypony saying that Luna could move stars, or affect them at all. Of course, nopony says she doesn't, either.