4198065

I have an opinion!

What do you gals

Oh.

4198065

I habitually double-space, but I mass find-replace it to single spaces for FiMFic because otherwise the formatting gets messed up, and for writeoffs because anonymity. Personally, I prefer double-spacing, but some people get bent out of shape when you give your periods the breathing room they're desperately crying out for. Eggs to them, I say.

So, yeah; I'd change it to single-spaces in your case, but don't let that deter you from following your heart. I'm with you that it's right and natural to double-space.

4198065
4198089

People use double spaces? What? Like this? And that?

I've never heard of this nor have any clue what you're on about.

4198065
I recall reading about it a while back, but I've never actually seen it in use. Single space's the space for me.

4198089
So you think I should single-space because ponies want that, and I should double-space because it's better and I'm right to prefer it? How do I do that? I can't figure out how to do 1½ spaces.

4198097
4198146
Seriously? That's bizarre. I always use double spaces. Always have, always will, unless it's not convenient. It makes sentence separation much clearer and easier to read.

4198170

It makes sentence separation much clearer and easier to read.

You may be right about that, but I think it's more than anything a matter of habit. I have never used anything else than single space, and I likely never will.

4198076
You can be a gal!

4198170

I can see why it would for some people, especially those who might struggle to read some font sizes but in this format, it just looks odd to me. Like someone's pausing waaaaaay too long after every sentence.

4198065

Okay, serious answer this time.

Using two spaces after a period is wro--!
Well, improper.

It's a tradition leftover from the days of the typewriter. Back then, all characters needed to occupy the same width on a page, whether it be a skinny lowercase "i" or a wide capital "W". Because of this, odd spacing between characters would arise. So, it became common practice to use two spaces between sentences to help with readability. The two spaces were distinct from the weird little spaces that littered a block of typewriter-text.

But now most fonts are intelligent enough to use logical spacing between letters, taking away the need for multiple spaces between sentences.

So, there are only two reasons someone would use two spaces between sentences, neither of which make it excusable.

First, they're stuck in their old ways. The age of the typewriter has passed, and it's time to adapt to the changes technology has gone through.

Second, they're trying to make their writing look longer than it actually is. Every college students knows the tricks to help their essay or paper reached the required length: adjusts the margins, increase the font size of the punctuation, and add spaces where they're not needed. This is not an okay thing to do.

So, as I said, two spaces after sentences is improper and the practice should just disappear.

Now, with all that in mind, I didn't even notice it when reading your stories. I think anyone pointing it out is just being picky. As far as your own writing goes, if that's what your comfortable with, then go for it.

Good Girl

This and The Worst Medicine were my two stories. I must be a bigger fan of schadenfreude than I thought. On a more serious note, I do like darker stories – Thriller and Horror is my jam. Maybe you'll see more like these in future write-offs.

I would still have preferred The Worst Medicine to be the one to reach the finals, but oh well. Can't have everything, right? Besides, horizon called it "solid", which is a big win in my book.

But let's get back to Good Girl. Wall of text incoming.

The transition to the flashback
This is something that got very mixed reactions. Several of you were very critical about this, while others thought it worked really well and did a great job at setting the mood 'n stuff. It's very interesting to see people responding in such different ways. I can't say it's unexpected, though – I have never written a scene quite like that one.

Disclaimer: I responded to these with the last ones first, so the first replies turned out very brief on account of me having already responded to the points raised.

4195096 (Trick Question)

I cannot understand why Good Girl scored as low as it did.

You flatter me.
I'm willing to bet it's the transition – quite a few didn't like how it was handled. (see above)

4150421 (Not_A_Hat)
Thank you!

4152062 (Kwirkyj)

...a period-space-closequote...

Good eye. Thanks for your comment!

4150643 (Cassius)
I entirely forgot setting the scene in the introduction. And I agree about it being dull – it's the part in most need of a revamp.

... this story has a very good grasp of pacing and understanding dramatic build-up...

Thank you!

4152327 (Titanium Dragon)

There are ways of doing this correctly in text, fading from reality to a flashback...

Could you give an example? I haven't read enough to know this stuff. The whole transition was really an experiment.

I really dislike when people randomly make characters who show no signs of problems like abuse having it inserted into their backstories gratuitously...

Fair point. I suppose most every Dark story would technically need an alternate universe tag, on account of Equestria being a so light-hearted and fluffy.

4197134 (Fluttersyke)

I thought we were going into serious meta-land with a really weird Pinkie Pie overlord.

I'll admit, this made me laugh – I failed to even consider that people could misunderstand the transition.
Thanks for the comment!

4152523 (FanOfMostEverything)

[the transition is] a disproportionate, drawn-out, and confusing sequence that disrupts the flow of the story.

I'll agree about it being potentially confusing, but not drawn-out and disproportionate – the transition is the core of the whole entry. It's a build-up, a way to set the mood and create suspense before the actual flashback.
At least that was my intention. If I succeeded in doing that, however, is entirely up to you guys (the readers).

4159530 (Everyday)
Yeah, I messed up the tense. I first wrote it in past tense, but figured I'd change it to present to give the flashback/transition a greater impact.
Thanks!

4167606 (Pascoite)

Twilight's technical explanation isn't right.

Is it the "rotation on your longitudinal axis" part? I'd be grateful if you could clarify.

"Angling your wings to receive lift for a rotation on your longitudinal axis while also keeping them at opposing angles to maintain a revolution around that axis is impossible, since –"

4169514 (Von Snootingham)

... but Rainbow Dad beating filly Dash is super uncomfortable.

Mission accomplished.

4158228 (Monokeras)
Your reaction really stuck with me, and frankly, I'm torn.
On the one hand, it's really cool that I actually managed to inspire that feeling in someone, since that's basically the whole point of the genre.
And then on the other hand, I sort of want to apologise for doing just that.
Either way, your comment made me think. Thanks.

4189663 (HoofBitingActionOverload)

Ambition gets big points.

Thanks! I had the feeling it was important to at least try to be original with a prompt like this, and I think I may have been correct. A lot of the stories did turn out very similar in tone.

4167866 (Chris)
You gave a lot of technical advice, which I really appreciate. I will try the tense switch, and the beginning is definitely going through a revision. I'm fond of the ending, though, so I'll keep that like it is as long as I can.
Thanks!

4191250 (Baal Bunny)

When Applejack offers Dash "a place to crash," I was hoping for a reaction from somepony--Applejack wincing and adding "you know what I mean" or Dash giving her a half-lidded look or something.

I'll add that to my list of missed opportunities. I'll also keep it in mind for the rewrite (I do love me some AppleDash). Thank you!

That'd be all. Spectral out.

Trivia: This comment is longer than Good Girl is.

4198097
4198146
4198170

People... hmm... of a certain age remember when double-spacing was the standard practice with anything typed because it made it easier to read monospaced font, such as a typewriter would produce. Nowadays, it's not strictly necessary because variable-spacing fonts are the rule of the day, and it's generally not taught in typing classes.

Still, any older writer, and some of the younger ones who were taught their typing by someone insufficiently "with the times," will have learned to double-space after every period. And let's face it, two spaces just looks better.

EDIT: Looks like 4198190 beat me to the punch. tl;dr: his facts are 100% right, his opinions are 100% wrong

4198190
No, there's a third reason: we think it looks nicer. But it sounds like the double-spacing may not be an issue. Who was the pony who upbraided me on that? I would like to hear from their perspective.

4198065
I use one space, and generally think that makes more sense, but I really can not bring myself to notice or care. (Of course, ask me about serif vs. sans serif fonts and I have opinions.)

4198223

"Looks nicer." Since when do aesthetics matter in writing? If appearances mattered, I'd type in cursive, using cyan font.

I mean, let's take this writeoff's winner, for example. It's not about the presenta...

...Okay, bad example.

... I don't really see a difference between single space and double space. Assuming people are doing it in the comments right now. =s

4198197

his facts are 100% right, his opinions are 100% wrong

Does not compute.

4198197
Well, horseapples. Now everypony will know I once took a typing class on an actual typewriter. I'm not 40 yet, I swear! gimme 3 months

I don't think my preference stems from that, though. I'm just super anal about everything I do, and I like clarity.

Although I now realize something disturbing.

Just as y'all never noticed my double-spacing, I haven't noticed the single-spacing. I notice it in comments, but not in the prose. However, that may be because I have to read the prose quickly for these contests.

4198318

Gal is a deprecated unit. You should use m•s⁻².

Oh, you European silly-heads. "Gal" is the notation for "gallon," a unit of liquid volume.

4195999
Try as I might, I can't seem to find anymore than one fic that's used the idea before, but I'm almost certain I've read others. Anyway, here she is. Pretty meh. Suffers from the same character problems but with mechanically significantly less solid writing than your entry had. I do think the idea of Philomena permanently losing her intelligence and personality in the transformation is one you could consider, though.

4198065
I have a preference for single spaces between sentences; the full stop plus capitalized word in the next sentence is, for me at least, more than enough to keep things clear, and doubling the spaces feels like a kludge left over from earlier times. But I wouldn't complain about that — well, at least I won't complain as long as no one complains about myself putting spaces around my em-dashes

(Incidentally, thanks to proportional fonts and how I use justified alignment in everything I write at work, I often don't even notice that there are two spaces rather than one after a full stop.)

4198193

I'm willing to bet it's the transition – quite a few didn't like how it was handled.

I'm kinda torn about whether or not to even post what is below; I tend to not post how I voted for a number of reasons. But since the author showed some curiosity...

While I haven't previously written a review of this story, I rated "Good Girl" low because of a few things. On the technical side it's basically about how the part inside Rainbow's head was handled:

- While I do think the idea behind the fantasy part was good, the illusion superimposed over the real world an interesting twist, I don't think it worked here; it became too choppy, too confusing (though this feeling may have been amplified by my subjective issues with the story). Going into hyperbole to better illustrate my issue, it felt like you were trying to turn Friend Like Me, the Genie's song in Disney's Aladdin, into prose, complete with a description of what was happening, though obviously a lot less intense.

- At first, during Pinkie's transformation, I couldn't decide if the imagery you wanted to invoke was supposed to be funny, scary, or something in the middle; keep in mind that in a MLP story the default expectation is that of funny and fluffy things, so to have something scary you need to signal it better, and particularly so in this event where you don't have story tagging and previous experiences with the author to show the reader what to expect. Adding a bit of reaction to Rainbow — like pupils contracting, feeling her mouth dry, and other clear signals of fear — might have helped here.

- Since we were dropped deep inside Rainbow Dash's psyche, as seen by the fact the external world vanished, I found the third person narration in that part kinda jarring, seeing it like an impossible external observer rather than looking through Rainbow's eyes. I'm not sure how to fix this; perhaps it would have felt better in first person here, like an extended stream of consciousness, but that would bring its own issues.

Then there is the subjective aspect:

- It kinda turns MLP, or at least this specific slice of Equestria, into a Crapsaccharine World; some like it, some are indifferent, some hate it. I'm somewhere between the second and the third groups.

- I'm very impervious to any attempt to drop a large amount of any negative emotion, including sadness and fear, into a small word count; instead of making me feel something, such attempts tend to simply make me disconnect from the story, which is what happened here. Might be why I had a hard time deciding at first if you wanted to evoke comedy or fear; since I couldn't feel it, I had to determine the intent through intellectual analysis. Not exclusive to your story, though; in this event none of the fics that tried to make the reader feel great sadness had any effect on me, while the ones that went for a small amount of sadness or a little apprehension often managed to get through.

In other words, this fic would never truly work for me, regardless of quality, simply due to its subject matter and attempted tone. And, while I do try to give at least equal weight to the technical aspects as I do to my subjective preferences, the technical quality of most fics in the final was close enough that subjective elements were prevalent in my vote.

4198519
Well, feminists would certainly agree that the gal has been depreciated.

4199893
You brought up a few interesting points; expect a reply tomorrow, when it's not 1am and I'm rested enough to actually make sense of my own thoughts.

For the record, I do value every piece of feedback I get. Even the negative reviews, perhaps even more so than the positive ones - it's all just ways to improve. So thank you for posting the reply. I appreciate it.

G'night, folks.

4198190
I wasn't going to say anything back when it was an aesthetic argument, but you're just factually incorrect here. "Two spaces is nothing but an obsolete holdover from typewriter habits" is an urban legend invented by single-space pedants. Counter-evidence is readily available.

Both single and double spacing were standard in different countries up until the mid-1900s. Single spacing became more prevalent when an increase in low-cost periodicals pushed printers to rein in spacing as a cost-saving measure. Somehow, in the 1990s when computer publication removed that cost incentive, designers decided to pretend that all along it had been an aesthetic issue and the prevalence of single-spacing in mass production proved their aesthetics right, and thus were born the only linguistic purists more annoying than the ones who complain about split infinitives.

Everything I've ever published on FIMFiction has been double-spaced, and out of tens of thousands of story views, I've received maybe one comment total on that choice. (Actually, I lie: There's a single story in my collection which is single-spaced. Nobody's ever commented on that discrepancy, which tells me how pointless this whole debate is.) I single-space in the Writeoffs purely because the rules say so, and I'm willing to obey the rules because they are for the purpose of anonymity rather than aesthetics.

4199893
Space-around-em-dash authors represent! /)

4198065

Somepony here suggested that my prose was written poorly because I use two spaces between sentences.

If that was their actual argument, tell 'em they're free to disagree with my (double-spaced) medals.

4198065
DOUBLE SPACE
MASTER RACE

I take them out for the writeoff, tho, to lessen the chance of giving away my own writing. :B Then I put 'em right back in when it's done!

4200383
Space around double-hyphens author represent! :D

...It's lonely here :(

4200423
Don't worry -- I know your pain.

4200460 I like your style, Doseux.

4200423
Well, while I prefer em-dashes over double hyphens, I'm not against the double hyphens per see -- I even use them when on my phone, where I haven't yet figured how to easily enter an em-dash

(Though you will rarely see me using the phone to answer, like now; too much of a pain writing in it, and I quite dislike having to choose between fighting the auto-correct or having little to no spellchecking.)

I would just like to call to everyone's attention how much more a space bar must be pressed to suit the desires of people who put two spaces after a period and spaces around em-dashes over the lifetime of a keyboard.

Think about it.

4200816
Yesssssss. This is the best reason. STOP ABUSING YOUR POOR SPACEBAR.

4200383
The reason pretty much no one ever comments is because no one ever notices. It is by far the most inconsequential choice of spacing, and getting into fights over it is dumb. You could probably switch randomly between single and double spaces between sentences and almost no one would notice, and those who do would probably think you were practicing some form of stenography. It is just silly to argue over. For the record, I use single spaces between sentences, even though I was originally trained to double space. Why? I couldn't tell you.

4199997

Well, feminists non-misogynists would certainly agree that the gal has been depreciated undervalued.

FTFY

(also monokeras said "deprecated" not "depreciated" but that doesn't make sense either)

4200460
My only regret is that I have but one upthumb to give for thy comment.

Er, how doesn't it make sense? To belittle or disparage someone is to depreciate or deprecate them.

4200423
Aha! You know why we don't notice single/double on Fimfiction stories?

BECAUSE THE TEXT IS NEIGH-ALWAYS JUSTIFIED SO THE SPACES ARE ALWAYS VARIABLE FROM LINE TO LINE.

On occasion I do notice it in comments.

I have learned to fear asking for anything but seeing as a lot of us have to single/double in order to enter our prose for the contests it would be super-keen if RogerDodger could just have writeoff.me auto-fix to .

4201523
I think he refers to deprecated as in "not used anymore because of reasons", like a new formalism, grammar changes or better ways to do the same thing.

4201523
Sorry! I'm not used to using ether of those terms that way. You are correct.

4201550

I think she refers to deprecated as in "not used anymore because of reasons"

For depreciation, I was thinking of a lessening of value over time; for deprecation, I was thinking of a decrease in usefulness. While women are still a subordinate class in pretty much every large culture, our "value" has been increasing rather than decreasing.

4201560
Er, I think I made a bit of confusion here (sorry for the pronoun chaos, but I intended to say he (monokeras) ). I was thinking along the Compiler messages "SomethingSomething is deprecated" refereed to the word Gal as in "the word is not used anymore".

4201533
Actually the double-spacing error is occasionally noticeable on Fimfiction because space sequences sometimes break on lines, making the following sentence slightly indented. Example, ctrl+f for "Oh, wow!" with Georgia font, 1.1 font size, and 1.2 page width. (Or just scroll down watching the left margin till you find one.) This bug is the main reason why I think authors here should single space, but it doesn't really matter. (It's (almost) trivial to convert a single-spaced document to a double-spaced one.)

On writeoff.me any sequence of spaces appears as a single space, as is the default for web pages. As far as author anonymity is concerned, the page source can still identity the author as a single- or double-spacer.

Technically the rules say you have to single-space (among other formatting guidelines to aid author anonymity), but nobody actually reads the rules.

4201565
Ah. I was the one who made the accusation, hence I thought it was my use to which you were preferring.

And I don't really give a damn about pronouns on an internet forum, but, force of habit.

Anyway, you're making a bold assumption that I haven't just given monokeras a sex change.

4200383
Hee hee.

The actual quote was something like, "your writing is passable, except for the double-spacing after each sentence".

4201568
But it's okay if we double-space? Or am I supposed to get removed from the competition if I do that again? Because I don't want to be an asshole or not be able to play fun game of writing, yet I doubt ponies are going to view source to peg me (esp. if others decide to do it too or use it to throw ponies off the track).

Oh, note: I feel compelled to mention that different users of Fimfiction keep different settings on which font and which size they use, as well as the screen resolution and window size. I don't see anything there because it's in the middle of a line for me. But I have seen what you're referring to before, and it's rather surprising they don't abridge whitespace when it breaks across a line.

4201569
That's it, we need a slew of new Internet pronouns, something to refer to "unidentified and I like it that way thank you very much", "unidentified but I will assign you a gender for my own sanity because I can't manage something else", "unidentified but I will assign you a gender anyway because I am aggressive" (this helps to distinguish sincere attempts at flame wars from unintended blundering). The last two can also become "Known preference but i will assign you something else because...", the not-aggressive one can then become a tag that your browser of choice will change with your own preference, and so we will all live happily in a machine mediated environment.

4201578
4196839

4201576
You won't get DQ'd, but it's better for anonymity that everyone adhere to the same stylistic choices. (On the other hand, any single-spacer could submit a double-spaced story to throw the source readers off your tracks.)

You can just use the find+replace tool in your editor to go from single- to double-spacing (and from indented to double-spaced paragraphs).

Two last things. This time for realz!

The Laughter I Choose to Be did actually have a clever way of hiding the twist, actually! I had to remove it due to length constraints, but I think y'all will agree it works much better once I restore it.

One last formatting question: what are your thoughts on curved quotes versus straight quotes, and ellipses versus dotdotdot? Currently I do straight quotes and dotdotdot, because I find them less annoying if they're not Unicode dependent. I also find straight quotes a bit less cramped-looking. For the record, the only non-ASCII character I use in writing is — (the emdash).

4200383
4201588
4200423

Per RogerDodger, we don't need to hide our double-spaces anymore! Writeoff.me removes them from the formatted text. Single-spacers could double-space or vice versa to throw ponies off-track in case somepony is actually desperate enough to do a view-source, but I'm kind of doubting ponies will even bother going to that much trouble. But just so you know, S&R with double-spaces is no longer an official requirement.

This makes me happy, and guarantees I'll be single-spacing my next entry in order to confuse everypony.

Or WILL I?

4201578
Use they/them/their.

Most people don't really care too much, though.