Some thoughts, just to prove I'm still alive. · 12:31am May 18th, 2015
Hey, y'all!
Long story short: last couple of weeks haven't been conducive to writing, what with the upcoming wedding and the new arrangements at work and all those things, and I kinda spent a few weeks of downtime where I pretty much just looked at the pretty blinking cursor on the computer (and yelled at Dragon, but y'all know that).
Luckily, that feeling passed, and I'm sort of back in the saddle. Not in terms of new stuff—barring a miracle, I wouldn't expect any updates or new stories until June. I did have one idea I might add to Not Another Pony on Earth, and I was looking at an old unfinished story which might ultimately wind up in Half-Baked Biscuits . . . but here's a blog post.
Well, I might have been lying just a little bit up there. Like, the ideas are coming back, but right now they're a bit unfocused. That header up there is recycled from another blog post, which I was gonna bring y'all . . . except then I got four pages in and my attention started to wander towards important details like where did I leave my passport? and what happened to the charger for my digital camera?
Fortunately, I'll have plenty of time to organize my thoughts while I'm waiting for airplanes. Delta decided it would be more fun if my first flight left earlier, and my second flight left later—making a two-hour layover in Minneapolis into a four-hour layover.
It's a good thing, too: rather foolishly, I entered Obs' OC Slamjam, and the first story is due this coming Friday. I probably ought to get started on that.
Before I do, though, I'll leave y'all with a parting thought, which pertains to my half-finished blog post.
A little while back, somebody posted a forum thread in the Writer's Group about real-life equines having dichromatic vision. I haven't verified, but I think that's true. I read through the comments, and there were a couple of commenters who felt that the ponies ought to be humans in horse-suits—that is to say, they display minimal equine characteristics.
source
I expect an Equestria with these ponies would horrify them.
Well, I think that's dumb. I'm sure most of you who are reading this know I think that way (and if you just happened to stumble upon this blog post but haven't read any of my HiEs yet . . . well, now you've had your warning). Especially in a first-contact story, every little bit of alienness that can plausibly be crammed in should be. Sure, the ponies have some human-like behaviors: real horses don't build castles, for example—but wherever possible, I like to see horsey things.
With that in mind:
IRL horses are one of the few mammals where the male does not have nipples. The females do, of course, and they also have fairly small udders—certainly not as sizable as some other mammals. What I'd love to see in some HiE is where the ponies either think that a shirtless man is actually female, or that they draw the (understandably mistaken) conclusion that human males nurse their young.
Oh yeah, and in case you hadn’t noticed, if you write your dates the American way, they’re palindromes—5-17-15—and will be for a few more days.
>What I'd love to see in some HiE is where the ponies either think that a shirtless man is actually female, or that they draw the (understandably mistaken) conclusion that human males nurse their young.
That has been done a few times. It is a common misconception that a male human is female to ponies in fics.
I did that!
It wasn't just the nipples, either. She noted all the "sexual dimorphism" between the two characters. 
3077065
Really? 'Cause I haven't found one yet.
EDIT: or if I did, I don't remember finding it.
3077066
Why don't I remember that? I need to re-read your story.
3077069 It's actually fairly common in my experience. Usually it's just for a few seconds and the pony accepts the correction and moves on.
3077084
I honestly can't remember a single HiE fic where that was a thing. Maybe it's the sleep deprivation, or maybe (aside from TLaP) I haven't read any fics where it happens.
3077090
Well... It was a relatively minor issue that was surrounded by more interesting plot points. I'll have to bring it up again later. I'm certain I can make it even more awkward.
Preliminary idea sneak peek:
Namerril: "Wait, you're a stallion?"
Alex: "Yup."
Namerril looks to Etherea.
Etherea: "He is."
Namerril: "You're sure?"
Etherea: "Well, I never checked, but I have no reason to doubt him."
Namerril: "I think we need more proof."
Alex: "Hey, do I get a say in this?"
3077103
I'm all in favor of the more awkward.
Turns out that human males can actually lactate.
It's a result of that little quirk of our biology where male and female fetuses are more or less identical for the first few weeks. Most guys actually develop the right tissue at puberty, but it never really 'activates', so to speak.
So it's not that mistaken. Give a guy enough of the right hormones, and he might could possibly nurse a child.
That wasn't weird to research at all. Nope. Not one bit.
3077127
Ooh, you should just have asked. I already knew that.
I know it's come up a few times in fics, though as mentioned, it's rarely more than a couple of paragraphs before being corrected.
I'm fairly certain it was brought up briefly in "Xenophilia", but only as a passing curiosity.
I know I've read at least one where they were dealing with an unconscious human male and made some immediate assumptions about gender that caused some entertaining awkwardness down the line, but I can't remember the name of the fic or anything else :(
I haven't seen anything that suggests the males nurse their young though...
3077183
It might have been--I haven't read that in a few years. Obviously, it would have been looking back at when Lero first arrived.
Don't you hate that? Happens to me all the time. Someone will make a post where they're looking for something, and I'm all like "Oh, yeah, I read something like that," but then I can't remember what it's called, or who wrote it....
Kind of a pity, since IRL male seahorses take care of the eggs . . . not quite the same, but it's an interesting parallel nonetheless. Hmm, that could be worked into a story with seaponies.
3077137
/shakes fist
You make me research more things than any other author on this site. I mean that as a compliment.
3077206
Thank you! I'm proud to be that guy!
3077197
That sounds like a really awkward bit of possible pony fetish material, especially given the gender role switch we see so often in Equestria.
"So... you like your stallions with teats, huh?"
"I didn't buy those magazines, one of my workmates got them for me as a joke!"
"Absolutely. And you keep them under your bed, and they look like they've never been read at all..."
"...It's not about the teats... I just like the look of the seaponies underwater!"
3077302
Now there's an idea. Hmm, that could be an accusation in a HiE romance fic--that the pony only likes the human 'cause he looks kind of like a mare.
I've sort of got a story idea that plays on gender confusion . . . I say that, knowing that in a year, all I've done is come up with the characters and title . . . perhaps one day. . . .
But wouldn't the ponies be aware of other creatures where the males have nipples?
Here. Although it was Fluttershy, and I'd kind of imagine she'd be one of the few ponies that wouldn't make that mistake...
Personally, I find those times to be very conducive to writing. Maybe you'll put some pony words on paper while you're travelling!
3077366
They don't even know what one of these is:
s3.jspenguin.org/zecora_mad.jpeg
So I'd say that the average pony would just jump to conclusions, rather than find out the facts.
3077433
I read some of that, way back when. Way way back when.
I'm with you on that.
I was actually thinking of writing a story where a pony takes a flight on an airplane, but then I remembered that you'd already done it. Then thought of something along the lines of Pinkie Pie vs the TSA. Only thing is, I can't write that until after I'm back in the US, just to be safe.
That set from foervraengd is actually my favorite interpretation of what the appearance of the ponies would be IRL, and it's what is on my mind whenever i read anything with humans on it cause I just can't picture the cartoon style along side humans for how exaggerated it is, it requires a very specific aesthetic to work and I find it easier, better and more immersive to imagine the ponies as looking more like real ponies.
Have you read Dead-Eye Darling? That's the story with the poniest ponies, i think. Rarity is literally just a super intelligent pony with a horn and magic, which of course also means she has super human strenght etc. It's a fascinating PoE story even if the plot is a bit hard to describe (also, it has cowboys).
3077366
Iron will didn't have them.
3077470
LOL
Another story for the list.
It'd definitely be nice if there were more stuff with different sensory ranges. I know you've done some, but there hasn't really been a chance for a full treatment yet (blasted story getting in the way...), and I can't readily think of any pieces that go into much more detail. It'd probably be kinda tough to write any real quantity of material that way, considering how hard it is to constantly reimagine everything in a new light, but it'd definitely be worth the effort if someone pulled it off.
3077197
It's at least been touched on already. Not certain which story it was (Demon Slayer, I think? Pretty sure it was one of DGD Davidson's), but they viewed the qualities of motherhood as essential for proper leadership, and rationalized the Seapony kings as being ok due to the role reversal.
3077467
Fair.
3077509
I guess that not having those probably makes it easier for him to fit in. I wonder?
Yup. Palendromes.
Also don't you think it would be great if you could name Dragon? I presume it has some kind of keyword like, Dragon, open Word. You could change it to Spike and that would 100% make these blogs more interesting.
3077127 3077137
Not just that, but I remember a story from somewhere where a male's actually done it. Fully developed breasts and everything.
3077183
Don't remember that being in Xenophillia.
--Sollace
Ugh, what a lousy couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to getting back into the groove too.
3078482
Well, if by that you mean "read some of the Admiral's stuff," you're in luck! I've got a contest fic that I can PM you a bit later tonight.
3077581
I also played with it a bit in Scaling Errors (although that was more focused on size differences, obviously). I've been doing what I feel is a reasonable amount with sense in CSI/OPP, but of course I'm kinda locked in with what I've established. I'm more than willing to play around a bit for one-shots, though.
For a long time, I've been planning to write a story where the ponies are actual horse sized--or maybe even bigger. And I've got a few more interesting things planned for the Sam and Rose stories.
Without looking back, I'd have to guess The Mixed Up Life of Brad--there was a bit with the Seapony king, IIRC.
That strikes me as how the ponies would think. It's kind of a delightfully alien thought process (he's a guy, but he takes care of babies, so close enough).
EDIT:
Dammit. Okay, that's like three or four which I've read. Clearly, the problem isn't people aren't thinking of it; the problem is my memory sucks.
3077509
I just did.
The ending was . . . unexpected, but it was an interesting choice to make Rarity (and presumably all the ponies) tall enough and lifelike enough that they could pass for natives.
3079303
LOL, yeah, the ending is all sorts of crazy, but i don't know any other fic that goes from western to well, what happens, and still kept me interested all the way through (I don't even know of other westerns). And I've got to admit i was a sucker for the whole "horse that's stays 2 steps ahead of everyone" aspect of the story.
Let me know if you know of any other good westerns though, I love those stories, one would guess that they would be a bigger thing than they are here.
Headcanon time! (Hence the dual response)
3077509
It's actually pretty close to my headcanon when it comes to HiEs, too. I tend to be deliberately unspecific (saying that Lyra has 'large eyes,' rather than 'eyes literally the size of dinner plates'), to allow my readers to imagine the ponies however they choose. Actually, I just noticed that not only do the Princesses have more horse-like muzzles, so does Zecora.
3077594
Which, in my opinion, is why most of the guardsponies are stallions. Why Sheriff Silverstar is a stallion--that's one of their instinctive roles, to protect other ponies. That was actually one of my gripes in Xeno--I thought it went too far with the over-protectiveness of the mares.
It's possible that as they became more selective, and breeding pressures began to relax, they were more choosy, and sort of bred for those characteristics. I'm no expert in early humans, but I wouldn't be surprised if things like large breasts weren't much of an advantage back in the early hunter-gatherer days.
Real horses have both monocular and binocular vision--they've got a small area directly in front of their muzzles which both eyes can focus on (I believe it's less than a 25 degree arc), while the rest is monocular. Apparently, that's why they sometimes get spooked--when something that they only could see with one eye suddenly appears in the other.
Given where the eyes on MLP ponies are located (as seen in canon), I'd have to assume they have binocular vision.
Not necessarily. The colors they can see are limited by the cells in their eyes (some people are colorblind, for example), so one doesn't necessarily follow the other. It's also worth noting that color is often subjective--the sky is blue because you were told it is; ancient Greeks didn't have a word for blue, but the color of the sky was the same. Interestingly, in humans at least, the brain can 'see' colors which can't actually exist.
Yeah, the coat colors are a tougher nut to crack, at least from an evolutionary biology standpoint--especially since some ponies who are related have too diverse a coat variation to have occurred naturally (the Apples--especially if you count the cousins and so on). Then again, if all their natural predators were totally colorblind, and the ponies weren't, it might have been an advantage for them.
Or--here's an idea that I don't think anybody's ever used. The coat color, mane color, and cutie marks are only visible to a creature with a special type of cell in its eye--to anybody else, they're boring, neutral colors.
3079389
The funny thing was that about halfway through, I was thinking of Arad's Stardust, and the thematic similarity, and then . . . well, you know what happened.
And I do always love me a fic where Rarity's a badass. 'Cause that's pretty much canon.
Can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'll let you know if I find one. Closest I can offer is maybe Highway 502, or maybe Changes.
3079562
Headcanon dumps are my favorite!
Ok, so here's my take on the whole crazy color scheme: alicorn!
Not alicorn as in the Princesses, but as in the mythological alchemical name for a unicorn's horn and the substance it was made of (also kudos to Skywriter for using this term correctly in his stories
).
As we know IRL horns, hooves, feathers and hair all have one thing in common: they are all made of keratin.
So my hypothesis is that Equestrian ponies don't grow keratin, rather their bodies grow alicorn, and just like keratin has different properties that allow for all the different structures that get formed with it, different types of alicorn take different shapes and also help the ponies channel the magic in their bodies in different ways.
The alicorn in a unicorn's horn lets them pour magic directly onto the world which allows for all sorts of different spells, feathers help counteract gravity, hooves help them create that tactile kinetic force that lets them hold on to things despite no having any digits. The amount of alicorn in their hair is too small and not dense enough to do much, but it channels enough of their magic passably to attain their vibrant colors based on their unique "magic signatures", sort of like a finger print, and genetics do play a part of it which is why sometimes coat colors are inherited. In the case of a pegasus, when they fly very fast they release enough magic through their manes to create the trails they leave behind (or all the time, in the case of Rainbow Dash, since she appears to be as magical a pegasus as Twilight was as a unicorn).
Also, the most obvious effect of their magic on their hair is the cutie mark, the cutie mark is actually a projection of a unique aspect of their magic that changes the color the alicorn in their hair has, which is why cutie marks are hair deep, and the skin remains the same.
img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120327014535/mlp/images/1/1e/Snips_and_Snails_bald_patches_S2E23.png
It's also why their coats grow duller or crazy colorful on some occasions. When Suri took their marks away the = sign was some sort or block on their magic that got projected instead of their cutie mark, and their coats and manes became duller also as a result of this change. A similar thing happened when they fought against Discord. If all the magic is drained the alicorn in the hair will still retain whichever color it acquired last from the pony, since it's normally a passive property present since birth.
Alicorn itself is not magical, it just serves as a conduit, the pony still is the source of the magic, so the right kind of magic is still required to achieve the desired effects. For example a pegasus can channel their cloud walking magic through every bit of alicorn in their bodies, but its not something the other ponies can do, and neither unicorns or pegasi can do what an earth pony can with their hooves (if the whole growth magic is a thing). Having the proper appendages is not enough.
Whether that means a clean shaven and plucked pegasus will fall straight through a cloud, we haven't found a volunteer to help test it out yet.
In every university there's a scholar cursing the day that using alicorn to refer to the Princesses became vox populi. Luna has been known to literally seethe whenever someone refers to her as an Alicorn.
3079570
Yeah, not a lot of those anymore, I think Dog an Pony show was long ago enough that most people forget that part of her personality (or that she beat both Rainbow Dash and Applejack as most daring pony in Castlemania, while she was mostly by herself even) , we need another epic Rarity solo adventure this season.
3079662
Seconded. I often come across things in fics which contrast my headcanon, or which I personally don't like, but I generally push them aside and continue, if it's well-written and otherwise engages my interest. Actually, that's one of the challenges in fanfics vs. regular fics--your audience goes in with preconceived notions.
Ah, gotcha.
If they follow a normal evolutionary path, they've been pretty high on their food chain for a long, long time, at least based on their eye position. Of course, that's supposing that their evolutionary pressures are similar to Earth's; in a world like theirs, that may not be the case at all. If they can 'sense' nearby predators by way of their auras, or whatever, then having a good field of vision might not provide any significant benefit like it does in IRL horses.
It could also be the result of crossbreeding between tribes--of all the tribes, Pegasi are the least likely to be preyed upon (since in canon, they can sit on clouds), and for them, good binocular vision is probably very important.
Maybe yes, maybe no. A fic could plausibly use one or the other, but not both--heck, if somebody was really good at neurology, it could matter that they have forward-facing eyes, yet still technically have monocular vision [and that might give Derpy a huge advantage over other ponies]. While those specifics aren't something I could see myself working into a fic, I kind of touched upon the subject with Trixie being able to 'see' magic, while Twilight couldn't.
I expect they would, and I've really only scratched the surface with Dale's observations of the ponies (since he knows that, intellectually). I actually decided early on to make this an advantage for the human: he knows that he can't assume anything; in Equestria, they have so many sapient species, that the ponies would naturally assume that an alien race was very similar to one known species.
We don't, of course, and it's very difficult to describe individual perception of a sense to somebody who can't experience that sense. Scent is a good example--when a dog's tracking a scent, what does it 'see' in its mind? How does one describe a bat's sonar--what does it look like to a bat?
That's a possibility. We're wired to see certain things certain ways (I've heard facial expressions are easily understood across all cultures, yet fashion obviously isn't), and why should the ponies be any different? Perhaps it's a complicated scent-picture of Applejack that can be represented by a trio of apples, or an innate understanding of the magical fields around Rarity that lets everypony know there are gems on her butt. For that matter, why should magical auras be visible to non-ponies?
If I didn't have other goals in life, I could probably spend the rest of my time on the site picking apart the most mundane of details and examining them in different ways.
3079703
And don't forget in the Power Ponies episode, she was the first to get a handle on her powers (with her usual grace, no less). Heck, even in the opener, she was the first to attack the manticore.
She's also as strong as--or stronger than even Big Mac--she carried Tom on her back; Mac struggled with a cake.
3079681
I knew it, too . . . I've just never found the right story to use it in.
This is the kind of thing where I experience an intellectual dilemma. It's a perfectly valid explanation, and it's backed up by canon. Even without the examples of being discorded or having the magic sucked out by Tirek--which are extreme enough that a mundane explanation can fall by the wayside [anybody who can cause a light post to tip its 'hat' as it walks off could do anything to a pony's coat, regardless of what it's made out ot]. Something as simple as blushing: fur can't blush, and while you might be able to see a blush on a fair-coated pony like Rarity, you'd never see it on Twilight. Not unless their coats could change color on a whim.
At the same time, it just doesn't seem satisfactory to me. And I know that's odd, given that we're talking about magical ponies here. I just generally like the idea that a hair is a hair, and there isn't anything special about it.
Yes, I realize that this isn't the case with Celestia's mane hair in CSI/OPP . . . but it's Celestia we're talking about.
Of course, it might turn out to be one of those things that just nag at my mind for a while, and then I'll change my mind. That happens a lot; new information is gleaned, and I work it around in my head, and then I come to terms with it, and pretty soon it's kind of the cornerstone of something I write. Just recently, I was thinking about football and the Sonic Rainboom, as well as how pegasus magic is portrayed in Three Magics, and I suddenly came to an interesting conclusion about the nature of magic in Equestria (and I'm probably late to the party; based on my sexual dimorphism example, it's probably another case of me being the last one to notice).
3079745
I get what you're trying to say, trying to keep their magic as less of a biological thing, however I don't think it has that much of an impact to substitute one substance for another that, for all intents and purposes looks mostly the same under the microscope, except it isn't.
I do have a ringer though:
So it's canon that there's something in a pegasus' feathers that is in itself either magical or conductive to certain magical reactions, and it takes a pegasus to manipulate clouds which is one of the ingredients. So again a feather is made out of keratin, but the ones in a pegasus might not be just keratin, which is where I initially got this crazy idea.
I haven't read Three Magics, I guess i'll do that next
3079562
I was going to post a comment just for general information on sexual dimorphism on horses, but i can't seem to find the study i'd read in the past. Anyways, there was a study done where a bunch of measurements were taken from horses of both genders, and averaged out, then the measurements were used to compare against the other gender and something like 20% of all stallions fall within the margin the measurements that would be considered female and likewise something like 20% of mares fit the standards for a stallion, which would mean that around 40% of horses of the same breed are effectively androgynous, and their dimorphism is pretty small.
I'm sure i got the percentages somewhat wrong, i don't know if anyone has seen this study somewhere.
Yeah. I like my ponies horsey too.
That's why I keep coming back to you, what with all your addictive horsey words!
3079806
It may not really matter . . . like I said, it might just be me being stubborn, and I'll come around
. That happens sometimes.
Interestingly, I am fully in support of that idea when it comes to alicorn feathers, but once again, I'm just a little bit less sure with regular pegasus feathers (especially since in this 'verse, quill pens come from pegasi (hey, why not?), and in canon they break and wear out, which doesn't totally gel with my idea of magic [but it's also show canon that unicorn horns are filed . . . so I dunno]. I'm kind of just rambling there, but this kind of comment thread gets me thinking, and thinking gets plot elements, so it's all good.
I guess in a way, it's like shipping--everyone has their OTP, and fights tooth and nail to defend it.
I think it's a good read. It's a sequel, although I don't think you really have to read the first story to understand the second (and, to be perfectly frank, I didn't really like the first story so much).
3079826
That sounds about right--I can't tell the difference unless I get a look under the tail. It would be interesting to know whether sexual dimorphism is the rule or the exception with animals, and it would be interesting to know whether we humans fall towards the upper end of the scale, or more middle of the road. I suspect that since a lot of animals depend more on other senses than vision, visual dimorphism isn't necessarily an advantage.
3079905
Aww, thanks!
3079929
That's true--all those things are true. I remember also reading an analysis of the cake, although I can't remember what the actual weight was.