Void Ruins His Story · 1:06am Mar 16th, 2013
So yeah, the finale sucks. Worse yet, there's no way to improve it.
The entire story was structured around Twilight going back and Sweetie staying. That can't be changed. Not without what amounts to a complete top-to-bottom rewrite.
Sweetie goes back? The CMC lasting to help future-Sweetie? Wouldn't happen. Without that, there's no Apple Crisp, no Spot light, no troupe. The Sweetie-statue? Makes no sense.
Twilight stays? I don't like the idea of Twilight never seeing her friends ever again and being miserable in a world she doesn't fit in for the rest of her life. Maybe that's just me.
Celestia telling Twilight the truth instead? Completely ruins the tension. And why wouldn't Twilight tell her how once she got back, and Celestia relay that to Twi in the future? The 10 year delay becomes nonsensical.
From what I see, my options are:
1) Redo the finale somehow. Having one with the same outcome but still acceptable seems to be beyond my abilities as a writer. If it's possible at all.
2) Dump the epilogue I have into the fic and be done with this damn thing.
3) Accept the story premise as unworkable, delete the last chapter, and mark it Cancelled.
Woah, woah! Hold up there Void
Don't you dare say you're quitting right when you're almost done. You've proven yourself to be an incredible author what with the Stormy Nights trilogy and now this fic. 350 is probably your greatest achievement and you're thinking of throwing it all away? Everybody makes mistakes, but that doesn't mean canceling something you've worked all the way up to the end.
Words from a friend, you must continue.
-Silverness
I agree with Silverness. It's not worth canceling. I say keep it and "dump" on the epilogue. That way you can be done and start on more amazing stuff! But still, I enjoyed the story even with the "terrible finale" as you call it. It is still a great story. I don't believe that the ending sucked. And it certainly doesn't deserve to be rewritten. But alas, it is your story. Do what ever you want.
-Switch
2.....
2...2 2 2 2
2!
Seriously I have no issues with this story, yeah it sucks that Sweetie is not going back and that would make them real sad. Its heart breaking really but there is still a silver lining. Not all stories can end 100% happy endings, but to me this is 100% happy. Rarity might not be happy but she will be when she figures out that Sweetie IS. You get it... I SAID YOU GET IT?!
Don't listen to people who bitch about how you ended things, I know they are your readers but this is Void Chicken's story and not theirs.
922159
This.
I'd pick option A, but bring in another author willing to help and brainstorm if you can't think of something yourself.
Dude, I think that the story was fine. No need to rewrite it at all. The ending was a bit of a downer, but really, how elae was it supposed to end?
No matter how you slice it, the story leaves a character feeling sad.
Now, I say, publish the epilogue and finish the story, and then let others judge weather or not the ending was good or not. It was the best you could do with what you had.
Of course, this also serves as a lession for any future stories: Always plan your ending and all the details in advance so you don't end up totally lost for an ending and coming up with a potentially disatisfing one.
922243
The ending WAS planned in advance. I took great care to make the story consistent with it.
The ending certainly did NOT suck.
Thing is things would have been far far worse for Celestia had she succeeded and changed the past by having Twilight not go back.
Celestia would end up in the unenviable position of having the present change around her to suit the new past. What that entails is no longer being certain about ANYTHING you did in the past. Conversations you had but didn't, friendships, world events -- your memory becomes completely unreliable because how you remember things is not how they actually happened. It is ugly actually.
922265 I see.
Well then I guess maybe you should have thought this through a little more.
You know what could have been a very nifty idea? The Mane Six and the CMC go back, get separated, and the story focuses on them trying to adjust to this new world and it's strange new ways.
I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that the ending does not suck what so ever. I believe you should finish up and be happy with what you've done. Also the story lines up so well with the ending so makes a lot of sense to the least. that's all i have to say.
Whatever you do don't stop!
(now that I have stopped panicking)
I love this story and that means ending and all. Please finish it.
Ah jeez, Void, I thought it was beautiful and poignant, as endings go. There were enough hints in the story that it wouldn't be a 'everyone absolutely lives happily ever after' sort of ending, y'know? So yes, it's bittersweet, but Sweetie's old enough to leave the nest. She's come into her own identity, and found a future she wouldn't have had at all, otherwise. Personally, I think that's damned beautiful, even if it's bittersweet. Kids grow up, and choose their own lives, y'know?
And so Celestia isn't perfect-- Yeah, I dig that too. I love stories where she's more than a convenient fixture a la deus ex machina-style. Being willing to erase your beloved student from history just on the off shot of getting to spend a little longer with her-- That's love, even if it's misguided. Again, beautiful and bittersweet and not really a happy ending; I still would hate to see a word of it changed.
Anyways, just my two cents. Ya gotta do what feels right to you as a writer, and none of us have any right to fuss atcha for it. (Not that it'll stop me from being distressed if I don't get to see the epilogue!)
No matter what you decide, thank you for the adventure. It has been an absolute pleasure to read your work.
Ironically, I would be one of your negative commenters if it weren't for Luna's somewhat cryptic nod to Twilight. Instead, I see a fairly interesting possibility growing, one which would change the face of this world you've created in more ways than one. The epilogue may change things, but for now I'm going to say go for completion.
922632
...?
Honestly, am I the only person who was actually PLEASED with the ending? Both the main characters in the fic got what they wanted... mostly
I still love Stormy more.
I loved the ending. The way you made this story and all of the time travel elements work, and still make complete sense, was excellent.
The situation of whether Sweetie goes back or stays was complicated, and that made the story all the more better. On one hoof, if she didn't go back she would never see her two best friends again, but on the other she now had these two other wonderful best friends, whom she had grown up with and done so much with. Before the finale chapter was released, I had gone over this decision in my head and staying did make the most sense, as hard as not seeing the CMC and her family again would be. Twilight though, besides Sweetie, had no one in this this future world to stay for, and it made complete sense for her to go back.
You've done a wonderful job on this story, and you haven't ruined it in any way. It's your story, end it the way you want to.
I look forward to the epilogue, and your future fics.
Well, it wasn't bad, but yeah, it was a bit sudden I suppose. I've already enjoyed the story a lot up until this point, so no matter what way it went, it's a good story already.
Does Twilight become an Alicorn in this cannon? If so, you could move it around a bit so that Twilight goes back home, then we see Sweeite Bell saddened at losing her, but it's revealed that Twilight (being an immortal alicorn now) has lived until the future age (sent on a diplomatic mission or something by Celestia so she wouldn't mess up the timeline), and shows up right after present Twilight leaves to re-unite with Sweetie after so many years. That way, you can have it both ways.
I think it's fine that Sweetie stays in the future, now that she has a real life there. You could have her send back a letter to the CMC with Twilight, which might be a good way to end it (with us reading the letter).
That said, I'm good with how it ended. I was worried you would bring Sweetie back home, which wouldn't seem quite right, considering.
Okay, I'll admit that I found the ending a little bit underwhelming. That being said, it in no way jeopardizes the rest of the story, and you certainly shouldn't cancel the whole thing because of a bit of an anticlimactic finish.
Honestly, I think you could pretty easily save the finale by just writing a bit more. Have more interaction between Twilight and Sweetie Belle so that Sweetie Belle's motives can be better explained and more thoroughly understood. I felt that the only real issue with the ending was that you lingered too long on the dynamic between Celestia and Twilight when the story's about Sweetie Belle and Twilight, so this little bit would go a long ways in making things end more satisfyingly.
Whatever you decide to do, know that I thoroughly appreciated and enjoyed your story. You have exceptional skill as a wordsmith, and I look forward to seeing what you have up your sleeve for the future.
WO wo wo
1st off. The finale did not suck. From the perspective of a plot it is completely fine. The problem lies in a few areas. Every Author has some trouble. It is the fact that you have done so well up until this poiont that has led us to tell you what we think. It can come off as people being angry but most of us are not angry and the ones who are don’t matter. But as a community with some loyal fans we are here to help even if what we say might leave you feeling a bit down. We respect you and we want you to live up to the potential that we know you have because you have shown us.
With that in mind, there are 2 main problems with your ending in my opinion.
1) Everything is fine, but nothing is unique or unpredictable/It’s not that special where the story up until this point has been. I will call out Celestia’s admission as an exception to this but it is something else added to the ending, it is not closure in and of itself in any way. Also, while Celestia’s admission is done well in itself; the response to the revelation was slightly underwhelming which leads us to issue # 2.
2) It needed to be longer. The most important chapter of any story is the Final chapter, not including the epilogue. It needed to be fulfilling, but it is currently paced like a middle chapter. More emotion and a longer more drawn out revel of the final outcome with tears, hugs, maybe even denial resulting in Twilight delaying her return until she can deal with the situation.
Example: she is giving up her daughter. She did all of this for Sweetie. You could have delayed her leaving for a few days so they could spend time together. Maybe Twilight could see a few extra sights with her. We need some closure and simple “I am returning home” “I forbid it” “Sister come on” “Ok let’s do this” “I’m not going with you” (Sad face hug leave) is too short. But as far as plot goes it is sound and stands on its own. So my suggestion is to add some extra scenes. Not short cuts but full scenes, maybe even split it into two chapters. One where everything is ready and then all the “bad” things happen. The second is where she deals with all the sudden information and comes to terms.
If you want to do a re-write, that is completely doable and I will be willing to help with a more in depth breakdown/assistance if you wish. I am rather decent at helping to expand on emotion and I have put my Psychology degree to good use with other authors.
Lastly, if you want to re-write the ending with a different plot you have a few options. You replace how Twilight returns. She cannot change the past but she could make it so that she could have returned and set it up as if she never had. For example: Twilight goes back and lives her life with friends, and helping Equestria, but she lives her life in such a way as that it appears that she disappeared. This way she actually comes up with the idea that Celestia/Spike/Luna do not tell her that she ever returned in the first place. Celestia didn’t tell her because Twilight told Celestia that she couldn’t tell Twilight. Twilight would actually go back with a copy of the painting and put it up knowing that it would become the painting that gives her the Key. It was never Starswirl it was always Twilight.
Sweetie could either go with Twilight or stay, however if she stays than she is the only one Twilight is really leaving behind. The story so far has Twilight giving everything for Sweetie. She never made any other friends, it has always been work or Sweetie or the princesses. But Sweetie is the one who would be left behind and Twilight can afford a few days with her daughter.
At this point Twilight could choose to stay in the future, or she could go back. If she stays she could do so because of Sweetie, choosing to return when she becomes a old mare and reveling all the inventions that she “would have created”. The epilogue could be her return where she see’s all her friends and lives out the last few years.
Or she might never return she could have created a life in the future, had a family, maybe even save Equestria, or become the new princess ala Season 3 finale with her new friends. She could simply send back instructions and letters to her friends. If you choose the last path you would not need her to return with X many years of difference. Maybe a simple day from when she disappeared her friends and family get the whole story, all the tech, and the instructions. She might even include pictures of her family, Sweetie, and Sweetie’s future life. So long as it is all destroyed before 350 years of her disappearance (not that she needs to tell them a date). She masterminded getting herself stuck in the future. That is a plot that would stand, be unique and special, and still be happy. Everypony gets closure, everypony is loved, and there would be a sort of symmetry.
922265 I came into this story knowing that it would have an "unsatisfying" ending. That is, I knew that it wouldn't be sunshine and roses. It would be sad. Someone would lose something. It wouldn't end with everyone getting their happy smiley faces.
If I have a complaint with the way you're doing it, it's that it's a little speedy. Otherwise it makes perfect sense that Sweetie would want to stay in the future. She's lived there for more than half her life. She's been friends with her friends there for longer than she even knew the other members of the CMC existed.
It makes sense that Twilight would want to go back. To a certain extent it makes sense that Celestia would do what she did, but like 923397 and others said it felt a little... rushed. It's like you had a word limit and didn't want to deviate from it or I might have to eat you.
But that's life, you live and learn. As it stands it's still good because it forced such a difficult decision on the protagonists. Whatever you do don't cancel it.
923457
Agreed. Don't canel it. I realize I didn't say that myself but I feel that way.
I like story how it is.
While I hoped for some timelines/time paradoxes game, something like Asimov's "The end of eternity" - current story is good anyway, and leaving it hanging without epilogue would be bad decision imho.
At least for your readers.
I think the problem with the last few chapters is that there hasn't been enough detail or exploration, but nonetheless, this is still one of my absolute favourite stories on FiMFiction.
*shakes head*
Nuh uh.
You worry too much about the reader's negative opinions of your story. I know they're very loud on this site (to the extent that people downvote stories they haven't even read just because of the tags) but they don't matter. I said to another writer on this site a short time ago that he should care more about his readers, and you should possibly care a little less - though just about their opinions.
Anyone who has commented in a helpful way on style, they're people you should be listening to. Anyone who doesn't like the direction you took your story should write their own damn story. This is fanfiction. This is our wish-fulfilment of what we could never see in the show. And this is where the instant gratification of comments on the internet sometimes fails. It's your story, you get to push the plotline the way you want it to go, and your readers should be appreciative of that. Unless your character motivations are all screwed up or they're OOC, screw the neighsayers about the way you choose to write your story.
If it helps you improve, embrace it joyfully. If it doesn't, tell your readers to go write their own crap story where Twilight can never go home because of paradoxes or whatever they're complaining about.
EDIT:
tl:dr, I hate that some people are making you feel so bad about what you chose to do with your own plotline that you're second-guessing yourself. You should feel good about what you've written, and if you choose, you could re-write it to add the padding and the detail other people have been complaining about.
And I still love Stormy more.
I still think that the best way to fix the ending would be to leave open the possibility of Twilight returning to the future to visit Sweetie Belle. Also, please let this not be the only work you set in this universe.
I'm a bit late, but here's my thoughts. Look dude. I didn't like it. I bitched about it and I whined about it and I told you why I thought it wasn't good. Having said that, if your story was planned as is, then stand by it, because it's your story and the bottom line is you're telling your story and not mine or anyone else's.
So, keep the same ending.
If you want to make the same ending better, my advice to you is that you need to work on the pacing; especially in the end. Draw it out. Give Twilight and Sweetie some time to discuss things, explore why they choose to do what they do, why would Twilight want to stay, and yet needs to go. Why Sweetie would like to go, but needs to stay.
Twilight will still go away, and Sweetie will stay, but you will give them closure, rather than a one paragraph resolution.
I know it's 10 years late. And we now live in a different era from when you wrote it. And you're not the same person you once was. And maybe you don't even visit the site (but your browser does a weekly refresh bookmarks). But one thing I know for sure is that your story is awesome and the finale was great.
Writing time-travel causality is pretty much impossible, but you managed to pull it off. Your story (and its world-build) is intelligent and coherent. From what I've seen less than 1% of FimFic stories fits that criteria, and most don't care if you split time-lines left and right. But I find it refreshing to find an intelligent story well-designed from start to end. Amazing!
I also want to say the prose was great. Every line served a purpose. It showed me an action to imagine or a hint to think about. The text wasn't there to throw adjectives in my face as a distraction. I know some people claim one thing or another would be better, but they mix up "personal taste" with "better/worse". Some of their advice is among the worst I've seen, but then again, different taste -- different style.
Same with the pacing. It was perfect! I hate to get bogged down in words "to give me time to imagine". I'm not a fan of writers who tries to linger in the feelings created without adding anything of substance. I just pause when I want to stop and imagine. Quite easy when you read instead of listening to audio-books. So I want to get to the point, so I can get something to think about.
The amount of people who felt inspired to describe various additions and suggest you should add words to describe what they just imagined, leads me to believe they should learn to stop and enjoy their own side-tracks.
So in summary: I loved it, and thanks to high density and lack of transport passages, it makes for a great story to read more than once, feeding imagination and new thoughts every time.