"Thou Goddess" description (and spoilerriffic reaction thread) · 8:04pm Mar 3rd, 2014
I'll come out and say it: my new story "Thou Goddess," which I released without much fanfare yesterday, has had a crap description. (UPDATE: Now much improved. You can probably skip this post. Thanks, all.)
Despite the over-the-top acclaim of Bad Horse's signal boost and the breathless comment feedback from folks who have read it, it got a half-hour toehold in the featurebox and slid back into obscurity. (UPDATE: You guys and your signal boosts. 
Now featureboxed for 10 hours and holding.)
I'm confident my description isn't selling the story; when I reread it this morning it made it sound like a mindless new-writer self-insert-with-best-pony tale (it is so far from all of these things that it isn't funny). But I'm not sure I can sell it honestly without ripping away the magic of the resolution to the story's central question. I'm simply too close to the work to know where the spoiler line lies — I need feedback on what would have made the premise sound compelling while still preserving the mystery.
So, I'm asking for help. If you have read the story, please drop into comments and elevator-pitch it for me, in such a way that your description would NOT have detracted from your enjoyment if you'd read it before going in. Based on the response so far I'd be remiss not to submit it to EqD, and I'd love to make the summary grabby before I do.
I'll just say it now so we can sling around ideas freely, and fearlessly comment on what spoils what:
COMMENTS WILL CONTAIN HUGE SPOILERS
DO NOT READ IF YOU PLAN TO READ "THOU GODDESS" LATER
Which also means that if there are things you want to ask/discuss/gush/etc without worry of ruining it for others going in, this is a great place to do it. (For now. Author's notes will post after Augie's contest ends.)
Did I mention that comments contain spoilers?
I'm serious, last chance, story-wreckers below.
Have some extra spoiler space.
Alright, carry on.
Isn't you capable of doing so yourself? It feels like you're asking in vain, you're definitely capable yourself of producing a description that's both telling the central theme and keeping it interesting for the readers.
I'm going to let a faux pas slip me by as I'm not going to try to write a pitch for you. In earnest, the truth is that I do not consider myself capable of producing one because the narrative sort of eludes me. Still, the enjoyment of reading it didn't suffer a bit by that, simply it is a beautiful piece. I'm just cheering you on by foisting my opinion of your ability as a writer, heh. Hopes that I didn't offend.
PS: Isn't it better that you know the spoilers, as to better avoid spoiling the end of your story?
With a title like that I thought it was going to be interhorse, but the "E" tag claims otherwise.
i.imgur.com/AwZzrZo.png
Scansion has a problem.
The poems that flow from his pen at night are the most beautiful he's ever written. The problem is, he doesn't remember writing them. Drawn ever-deeper into an exchange of letters with a voice that can speak only through his own pen, he begins to question: is he dreaming, or is a lonely goddess of the night truly reaching out to him in the only way she knows how?
Or is it someone... or something... else?
1892947
> Aren't you capable of doing so yourself?
Frankly, no. You all have a huge benefit that I never can have: once upon a time, you read the story without knowing how it was going to end.
The description that's up right now is my best effort to sell the story without spoilers. I'm being too timid, but I don't know how much too timid, and I'm afraid to step over the line and take the wind out of the sails of "Who are you?". So, I'm asking for advice.
Thank you for the kind words though.
The words "Celestia's foalnapping" made me a bit confused - it took me a bit to realize you meant we were at Season 1 Episode 1. I spent the first half of the story wondering when I was, which prevented me from being inside of the story. Even the line "Celestia's light — it was back, to the roar of a thousand cheering, stomping ponies." didn't make me realize that we were talking about that point in continuity. After all, each sun celebration we've seen has the same basic thing happen; I took this to mean that the poet had just been working through the night, fell asleep, and was woken when the sun came up. The description was catchy outside of that, but it took me time to realize what exactly we were talking about. One thing I really liked about the description was how it made me think of Luna using meta-MLP knowledge, what with the talk about sleep-writings and a night goddess, only for the story to subvert that expectation.
My suggestion, changed sections italicized:
Nightmare Night has been defeated, Celestia has returned the sun to the sky, and a lonely poet wakes up to find unusual messages creeping into his work. As his sleep-writings turn into a lopsided dialogue with a lonely night goddess, will his correspondence draw kindred spirits closer, or lead to an uncomfortable revelation?
My language tends to be a bit more straightforward that what you're going for with this story; the second sentence doesn't fit correctly with the writing style, but there you go. The other thing I wasn't sure about was the phrase "lopsided dialogue" - I was expecting a one-way conversation but it seemed more like both of them were talking to each other equally. I didn't think about it until I looked again at the description, but it was something that caused a very slight disconnect.
Just my thoughts, thanks for the story
1892962
And a short description of: "What do you do when you don't remember writing your best work?"
I'm thinking you write up what 'Sky suggested. Looks good to me.
Oh, and it's now moved up a space on the non-mature box. So...
1892962
Okay, I would read the stuffing out of this story. If I can get a second opinion or two, this seems like a candidate for a ninja update.
Two specific questions:
1) Does the last line tip my hoof? After all, the instant we confirm it's not Luna, I'm still relying on the misdirection of his uncertainty about him creating it himself for another full scene, and the earlier I plant the seed of night the more chance it sprouts before the reveal that I absolutely, absolutely, can't spoil, because multiple people have told me it's literally breathtaking.
2) "is he dreaming?" I'm not sure has quite the right tone, though I'm not sure how to render "is he creating the messages himself?" compactly.
1892970
Good point wrt the first sentence. If that (*edit: mention of timeline) remains in the final description then a change like the one you suggest would be enormously clarifying.
Am I wrong to worry that any mention of Nightmare Moon will get readers' minds going in the
rightwrong direction in advance of the reveal?"Sing through me, o muse." So began many of the great epics, with paeans to the goddesses of art and inspiration.
Scansion has never begun one of his poems thusly, but after the Summer Sun Celebration and the new princess who came with it, one has been doing so nonetheless.
1893000
I am embarrassed that I could write something so baldly literary and not even think of that invocation. I wonder whether it would fly over the head of the average reader but I love it. Thank you.
Any thoughts on 1892962's suggestion or the questions at 1892991 ?
1892991 I would use Skywriter's suggestion with the exception of the last line. "Lonely goddess of the night" is a fun way of describing who he is talking to both before and after the mystery is revealed, and yet it reveals nothing to the reader who would otherwise go in expecting it to be a Luna story.
1892991
You could go with "is he delusional" or its ilk, rather than "is he dreaming".
Dunno about the last line either. It has to be hooky without showing your hand. You could go vaguer if you like: "Or does the night contain darker secrets than a poet could have dreamed..."
Oooo, but 1893000's suggestion is pretty inspired as well.
A perhaps useless comment--but I was actually turned off by the title. "Thou Goddess" sounded a lot to me like you were trying to sound archaic without really understanding what you were saying. In the context of the line it occurs, it's perfectly understandable, but stripped of the surroundings it becomes a little pretentious and also a tad wrong sounding? It lacks either a verb ("Thou art a Goddess") or a sense of the vernacular ("You Asshole") or punctuation ("Thou, Goddess,") which might have clarified the broad strokes meaning of the title. The subsequent description was not entirely gripping but wasn't terrible--I think Skywriter's is much more dynamic as a tack to take--but it was only the intriguingly strict spoiler policy that actually made me read the story. I liked the story, and I totally understand how hard it is to do summary for short pieces. I wish you all the luck.
I guess not the best help with things so much as an alternate perspective? This all sounds really horrible doesn't it.
1893052
We're supplying the content, but it's ultimately you who puts it up. If something doesn't feel right, change it or remove it.
Well, you can change mine. For example, if you want to keep the identity of the other side of the exchange ambiguous, then my idea's just begging for an "apparently" near the end. Rather presumptuous of me to give blanket permission...
Under the night's embrace, a lonely poet writes to a lonely goddess, and something writes back.
1892995
My hypothesis while reading was that the main character was writing to what was left of the Nightmare.
1893135
> "Thou Goddess" sounded a lot to me like you were trying to sound archaic without really understanding what you were saying.
I want to draw a sharp distinction here, because that is simultaneously great feedback AND incorrect.
The "great feedback" part: Everything about my story has to be considered in how it is received by my readers. If I use something "correctly" that fails to come through as intended, it's not really correct at all, because the story is not some objective collection of facts but words that evoke a specific emotion in readers. Your reaction is 100% legitimate, because I wrote words that failed to evoke the intended emotion in you. Thank you for speaking up, because honest feedback about what's turning away readers is even rarer than feedback about what works, and I strongly appreciate it.
I'm going to have to stand on the title as being integral to the piece, but it's good to know what the cost of that is.
The "incorrect" part — and I say that only in the spirit of education: The "thou" is actually being used in the vocative case, not the accusative (which would, as you say, be "thee"); the linked article shows several usages of "thou X," including Shakespeare. The most famous poetry the phrase "Thou Goddess" references, though, is Milton's invocations in Il Penseroso ("hail thou goddess, sage and holy") and L'Allegro ("come, thou Goddess fair and free"). As the phrase doesn't make grammatical sense in any other context, I use it strictly in the sense of those invocations (which the story backs up). I hope that's helpful in return!
1892995
You're probably right, a direct mention of Nightmare Moon probably would have that effect for some readers.
EDIT: As professor whooves shows, a very indirect reference can have the same effect.
1892962
This is great! I'd get rid of the last sentence as it seems to ruin the surprise and get you thinking that it might not be Luna. Since I'm hung up on indicating the temporal placement of the story, what about "is he merely dreaming, or has a newly returned goddess of the night been reaching out to him in the only way she knows how?"
I'm not really happy with that though, seems too direct. But it does force attention towards Luna and not the Nightmare.
1893220 To clarify, upon reading the story the usage was clear. The line where it appeared in the story was absolutely correct. The impression of the title I had was entirely something what was brought to bear before I read the story. Within half a page of actually reading it I hit this line:
And suddenly realized what you had meant. However, stripped of context this was exceptionally unclear. I might suggest a slightly longer version of the same title: "Thou Goddess, I Beseech thee..." Or "Speak, Thou Goddess" to clarify the use of the Vocative case. Or a variation which was also invoked the poetic inspirational nature of it without using that specifically. Fan's suggestion for the Summary provides another invocation, "Sing through me, O Muse" which I think is a decent title by itself but also might suggest another offshoot of titles.
As for the story itself, I enjoyed it, though perhaps not as much as I might otherwise since I came into it a) Highly skeptical and B) looking for a twist--both of which are my issue and has little bearing on your story. But It was a lovely examination of, well, love.
I feel like you might try to strengthen a sense of false dichotomy in the summary. Setting up the conflict as whether our Poet is deluding himself or else if he is corresponding with Princess Luna through his dreams. By setting this up as the mystery of the piece, you may find it easier to misdirect from Night. Also note that your spoiler policy, while attracting me, also set me up for looking for smoke and mirrors-- you might consider politely requesting people to mark spoilers in the comments during the author's note--or directing them to a spoilered discussion in a journal post rather than doing it in the description. It would to less to tip your hand and more people might enjoy your story as you intended.
1892987
Thanks to further unsolicited recs from 1893084 and Causal Quill, it's now up to #4 on the standard featurebox and cracked the bottom of the Mature box! I'm going to have to eat some crow on my assessment in the post. The depth of passion this story is inspiring is tremendously uplifting.
1893390
And now I'm seeing it featured
1893316
Thanks for the additional detail! Not much more to say re the title here. I did try to reinforce the (false) dichotomy in the new version, and I think it reads better.
I'm curious whether your skepticism got you predicting the double-twist, or whether the fake-vs-real debate managed to draw you off guard. I went full spoiler warning because I was okay with people being on guard for a twist; I just tried to build it so that it wouldn't be the twist they expected!
1893785 The fact that I knew there was a twist made me absolutely certain that the "letters" were not from Luna. My initial guess was that there was something hidden about the narrator himself--say that he was some one we knew, or else that he was not who he thought he was--which says more about my current reading diet than anything else. These were theories drawn from the previous summary and were summarily dismissed once I started reading. From there I jumped immediately to the Idea that he was not in contact with Luna but instead with the Nightmare....which was true in a way though the character of the revelation was different than I expected.
Basically, the idea that he was in contact with Luna was given by the summary so must be false, and the alternative that it was only inside his own head was possible but didn't quite fit. The previous summary hinted that maybe there was a dark secret which meant it must be some third thing. From there I picked the next most logical outcome and turned out to be right.
Obviously I'm probably not the standard reader here.
Skywriter's description looks the best to me, sans that last line (a hook it may be, but as it is it's more likely to turn me away). The misdirection would make the reveal that much more powerful.
edit: I'm late. Bleh.
1893953
I still appreciate the opinion — it's good to get reinforcement of the chosen decision.
It's done, sugarcube.
What's the NEXT story?
1897908
Yeah, I probably ought to blog something else to push this off the user page, huh?
For the immediate future, assembling the annotations, then back to Hard Reset 2.
That story is eating my brain, fo sho'; this was actually a good change of pace. After that? Most likely my half-done Highlander crossover, mixed with more Hitchhikers.
(Though this week is going to be a lot of reading first. One of the judges for the EFNW comp.)
All the nights that joy has slept
Will awake to days of laughter.
Gone the tears that you have wept:
You'll dance in freedom ever after...
You have come by way of sorrow
You have come by way of tears
But you'll reach your destiny
Meant to find you all these years.