"Good night, Crater-Ass." A Mark Of Appeal: aftermath & random thoughts · 10:27pm Nov 24th, 2016
Warning: if you haven't started/finished the story, there's going to be spoilers ahead. So there. So lots and lots of there. There's so much there here that if you don't want to be there, you'd better go somewhere else.
Last chance...
(Look, it was this or talk about Moana. You probably don't want me talking about Moana.)
Okay. You were warned.
(Yes, some to all of this probably should have gone as a Comments post on the last chapter. It's been a long day.)
* In at least one way, I didn't mean for it to go as far as it did. It was always meant to be a fairly major bit of the 'verse, with a number of reveals about the sisters, a few things about the local kind of magic, and we even wound up going touring in the end. But I never thought it would turn out to be so crucial. In terms of what it says about what's going on overall, it's almost a companion piece to Triptych. For the sisters... it's a long look at who they are, how they operate, some of the pain they're still carrying -- and, because they spend most of the story fighting through Joyous' mists, they slip. They let more of themselves out in (relative) public than they normally would, because they're working in a near-constant state of partial distraction.
* I've said that I usually have a number of crucial scenes planned out and wind up having to originally link them together, allowing the characters to find their path to the key moments. For this story, quite a bit was set from the start. Having disease and cure come from the same source was part of the original plan, as was having to leave Equestria in order to discover what was going on. The closing line has been in the notes pretty much since Day One, and I'm just glad it had a chance to reach the screen. As some people spotted from The Elements Of Elements, the Doctors Bear were going to wind up as part of the palace staff -- something which sort of made me regret posting that one short, as it offered a survival spoiler of sorts on its own. Still, by the end of the story, I feel they've earned their place -- along with justifying keeping an eye on them.
Organic elements? I didn't know Chocolate was going to sacrifice himself until the moment he did it. I was writing out the scene and then he went past all of us in a blur of yellow-covered hooves. Most of the Safeword chapter was spontaneous: I knew the sisters were going to talk about the consequences of their own potential exposure, but the exact words belonged to them. We took a brief CDA dip for one moment of dialogue, because the stereotypical pony response to seeing humanoid mammary glands for the first time is now officially "Yearrggh..." Much of the scene at the Hoovmat factory was just Celestia taking a moment for some long-delayed kicking of rear, and Luna pretty much took the keyboard when she confronted her sibling in the inn's hallway. (One line which didn't make it in: "What age do you have to reach before you finally grow up?")
* As far as that last line goes: I don't know how far I can push the various search engines and it's not an easy term to put in your history, but... there seems to be a chance that I was the first person to ever use that term for Luna. Which, given how long it took to actually use it, would be a minor miracle.
For the record (and I'll edit the TVTropes page eventually -- right now, Firefox is delivering a Header Too Large message on every page: I don't know if it's a cookie problem or virus), Luna did not come up with "Sunbutt": she just adopted the term after hearing it used. Celestia invented her response on the spot. We may need to put an entry under Berserk Button...
Sometimes, you just have to go with the now.
* Minotaur names? I've always wanted them to sound like professional wrestlers or low-rent superheroes. In this case, I started branching out into wrestling moves: a rounding moonsault is a real thing, and may your deity help you if you wind up on the receiving end of one.
(Of course, now that'll show up as the blog image in the column forever after. Yay?)
And for the dealer? I wanted to go dirty, so... chokeholds it was. His lawyer was rather naturally named after Bobby Heenan and as such was, when it came to brains, overmatched.
* One of the things which was vaguely suggested (while mostly staying in the background) is that Mazein makes up the manufacturing center of the 'verse, especially when it comes to machinery and durable goods. For pure mechanisms, they have most of the inventors, and tend to work with the heaviest materials. Hands have their privileges.
Minotaur magic is mostly related to physical strength and durability. In that sense, it's just about universal, with very little variation between individuals -- although the power of that magic can very much depend on the minotaur. You'll get the occasional minor branch talent, but it'll pretty much always stay within the realm of what can be accomplished by active bodies.
* The story picked up five downvotes shortly after completion. I'd like to think at least one of them represents someone silently screaming "I CAME ALL THIS WAY AND NOPONY EVER @#$%ED?!?" Nope. Just kissed. And even that took a lot of work.
(While nearly-ending on a kiss was planned, one of the moments which came from the characters was Joyous nuzzling Luna when they were talking about who was going to test the roots. It was showing how much Joyous had come to trust her, and maybe hinting that a little healing had already started. Also, as judged by the actual kiss, Luna won. Celestia hurt her own case in the inn's bath.)
There was also an upvote surge. I'm guessing some people just put it on their Favorites list based on description and decided to only start into it once the Completed tag was placed.
* I'll save everyone some time.
Titanium Dragon's Review: Not Recommended
* From description, chapter titles, and talent, it's a story which has a lot to do with sex. There's an argument to be made that it also winds up as a story about not being sexually active. Celestia subconsciously keeps going back to Joyous because it allows her to have fantasies which she can't blame herself for: how long has she kept herself on lockdown in order to treat dreams as something she has to feel guilty about? It's hinted that Luna at least used to do something in the past, possibly just casually, but she's still struggling too much for her own place: she can't see herself currently trying to find one besides another. (That 'latching onto a buoy to keep from drowning' line may come back to haunt somepony.) And neither is happy about Cadance's choice. Jealousy? Fear of consequences?
* Sometimes the Referrals chart gets weird. Not only is this the only story with incoming visitors from a firearms discussion site (which, by the way, I still can't search), but when it come to the Google inbounds, there's a very visible number of visitors coming in from -- Switzerland.
I don't know. Maybe it was the whole diplomatic immunity bit.
Oh, and if anyone reading this runs An Archive Of Our Own: now complete.
* Part of me wanted to pull a Marvel at the very post-credits end of the story:
JOYOUS RELEASE WILL RETURN
Because she will.
In fact, she's already been set up for it.
Actually, she's already been mentioned...
But it won't be instant, because one of the tropes I (or someone else) have (has) to put on this story's Recap page is Reality Ensues. Because she has to follow up with the doctors, and she may have to keep following up for years to come. Because she spent years surviving in the fringe, her parents lost years while the disease was in control, and for all of them, that's not something you can just casually hoof-wave away. They need therapy, counseling, and a lot of time to try and find any degree of adjustment. And in the end, nothing's getting that lost time back. The disease may be gone, but the damage it did will continue to echo.
* One of the biggest reveals (and one which opened up the next level of mystery) was that Sun and Moon are sapient. It shocked a good portion of the readership, was taken as a '...huh' by a few, and drove at least one person out of the story completely. (Well... g'bye...) But that element has been planned into the 'verse since the first day. It's always been about asking the next question, and the answers I find for myself are what make the Continuum. What are Sun and Moon that they have to be moved by magic? Why is magic even necessary for that movement? And now you've seen part of the answer: because the system as we know it is broken.
(Oh, and for what it's worth: this version of Equestria is not a simulation. There. I said it. Everyone happy?)
Solar and lunar scrying also came out in this story, along with the limitations of each -- and the dangers. It's not a tactic the siblings are willing to use too often for reasons both visible and stated: not only are the risks considerable, but in the days of regular, expected orbits, you can't get that much scouting time at any single location without triggering worldwide panic, and they can't interpret half of what they're "seeing" anyway. However, it still effectively gives Equestria the semi-functional limited use of spy satellites, something no other known nation can match. Imagine the advantages of that kind of reconnaissance in a low-tech setting and it'll tell you something about how the sisters pulled off a few of their early victories. Information is power.
* When you add this story together with Blessing, then toss Triptych onto the pile, you'll start to get a view of Star Swirl's fate: he fell to the Amulet and when he was on his deathbed, Celestia cast -- something. To save him? To punish him? Both?
There's already been some guessing as to what the consequences of that working were. Most of them seem to center around transformation, and I see a few people think he became Sombra. It'll probably wind up in the expected TVTropes location eventually. For now, let's just say those consequences weren't short-term.
* Luna finally said it directly: the door was opened to Nightmare when she tried to find a way of returning to her pre-alicorn state. And that was with knowing the consequences of leaving Celestia alone. It's safe to presume that she was in a very bad place when everything started to go wrong -- possibly without Celestia present to stop it.
Sometimes, it all kicks you at once.
* We get a lot of sibling squabbles in this story. Well, that's going to happen when you're subconsciously both fighting over and trying to impress the same girl...
* Fan art of Joyous, by Tea Leaves:
(If the link breaks, try this one. If you want to upvote her original post, it's here. And thank you for the surprise.)
* Chapter 3 talks about the mark-switch working, which the sisters will only refer to as that spell, occasionally spitting when they say it. Given the pony-perceived relationship between marks and destiny in-'verse, it may be easy to figure out why it would get a rather visceral reaction. You also might wonder about how it might have been used the first time...
* One scene which got cut before reaching the scripting stage: I had considered having Joyous go through a suit breach in a fairly public setting, forcing Celestia to cast the Severance on her in order to temporarily shut her talent down, for the whole ninety-eight seconds it might do some good. Followed by immediately realizing that going after the talent did nothing to neutralize the pheromones which were already in the air. Oops.
* There's a little hint of WMD policy in the ending: 'This could kill all of us, but every last one of us has to have it available in order to stop it, and we just have to hope no one's stupid enough to try using it...' Is anyone going to be that stupid? Place your bets.
* I never named the flower, on purpose. Does anyone have a favorite personal possibility for that name? MSPiper suggested Redline.
* I'll save everyone some guessing: of the seven Invictus children, only two are alive in the modern day. In fact, it's quite possible that only two were alive to leave their barricade point. The Discordian Era was a high-mortality environment and as Celestia said, only she and Luna reached the age where they could start to think about having children of their own. So barring a time travel spell the likes of which doesn't exist in-'verse, you're never going to see any of the others trotting around Canterlot.
(She also said that her father died just before everything truly started, and Luna confirmed that it was death from insanity. Their mother passed at some point during her children's travels.)
* The story contained two glimpses of the Discordian Era: we saw Celestia's original (shared) bedroom and watched her talk with Star Swirl in a cave. We probably won't be flashing back that far again for a while, but... I do know a few people are starting to wonder about deep time: what it was like to live back then, and if there's ever going to be a story about the Original Six.
If I ever wanted to turn to Patreon-based blackmail... Hey, there's my new sponsor level!
...but the truth? Triptych would have to wrap. And then we can talk about what comes next. Or -- what comes before.
[/hr]
Your turn.
I vote for poison growth as the name of the plant.
I would've enjoyed Moana talking.
So, Starswirl:
- Became Sombra
- Became something original which our heroes will have to battle in a future Triptych-verse story.
- Became Dr. Gentle
- Didn't become anything beyond one last fight and we're fishing for our own red herrings.
Also, looking forwards to seeing Joyous again. And especially now that she has full control of her (vastly above-average) talent.
I'm not sure if he became Sombra.... He's got some kind of connection to the Nightmare Entity.
Concerning SUN and MOON:
Now I'm wondering what (or who) broke it. Discord? Something worse? Could Discord fix it if he wanted to? Could the Elements? Or is fixing the damage beyond even their power?
4316240 Well they seem to be healing slowly.
My concern is are they going to want there intrical(sp) parts back, aka Luna and Celestia, when there more functional.
Honestly I've got this bookmarked to re-read as soon as I'm done with my Rights of Ascension re-read. There is so much world building here i need a fresh read to come up with good questions/comments.
Let me say it outright. I want this aspect of the Sisters pain to be healed. Okay, they are as close to immortal as makes no difference, and they are going to have to deal with loss...
...but they already deal with that now. They will outlive every servant/employee of the castle. Every member of the Royal Guard. Every student in Celestia's school (possibly excepting one). Every member of government. Every friend...
You've hinted that Cadance is older than she might appear in canon. Her ascension is not a recent memory. It is my wish tha in your 'verse she is capable of dealing with loss (having already experienced it), and considers it a small price to pay for the joy of having a partner. I'd like to see her visit Canterlot for the purpose of delivering a pair of "dope slaps" to the Sisters, and a lecture. Maybe even a matchmaking session.
Is that why Celestia assisted with Twilight's ascension? Something happened at school that caused her to shut down her sexuality in the same manor as her mentor? She wants somepony she can spend eternity not being sexual with? Perhaps Cadance should deliver a dope slap there too.
I love your 'verse. I love how your characters have their own unique flaws. I also love how you manage to have them grow with every story. I hope that the future holds some growth and healing for the Sisters.
Where did Luna mention trying to de-ascend again? I missed that revelation
4316490
Chapter 15.
Okay, I'm free from familial social obligations; let's see what we've got here...
If you ask the Prench, probably somewhere around four or five thousand. Or never.
The blog compression-mabob doesn't do that with video; it actually shows the very lovely fan art of Joyous. Also, I quite like your minotaur naming conventions. Definitely better than some I've seen on the site, including my own.
I don't want to go through everything you've written since you started Mark... but at the same time, I kind of do.
I don't think anyone else could come to the conclusions you have. A great deal of the enjoyment I get from this setting is finding out precisely what they are and how they've colored the world.
Also, good to know that this Equestria isn't virtual. It'd certainly be one of the least optimal versions of CelestAI I've ever seen.
Indeed. All the more so if my pet hypothesis about marks back then proves correct. Which might explain why Star Swirl came up with the spell in the first place, beyond the obvious attempt to ascend.
With regards to the Weed of Magical Distention, I can't help but think of Dash's attempt at turning herself into a poison joke-powered flying wrench. There clearly are people that stupid out there. The question is whether any of them will have the opportunity to exercise that stupidity in the worst possible way.
Also, it's a shame that this plant doesn't have yellow flowers; I'm half-tempted to call it overwoad. Alternately, one could embrace its intentional namelessness. Rich, complex characters get exposed to its posion and become paper-thin caricatures of themselves. Call it what it is: Anon.
Death by insanity covers a lot of possibilities, potentially including assisted ones. I may be reading too deeply there.
I definitely wouldn't say "starting." Of course, it's far from the only aspect of the Continuum I'm wondering about.
In any case, congratulations on completing an accidental cornerstone of this world. At the very least, I'll need to give the finished product a reread all in one go. I always find connections and callbacks that I miss as I follow along the first time around.
Quick note of clarification: Redline is what I was calling the then-unnamed disease out-of-verse, since it does the biological equivalent of redlining an engine, forcing the afflicted to draw power further and further beyond their safe limits until the resulting damage breaks them. I'm not certain whether I'd suggest it for the flowers themselves - while the fact that they actually are red-lined means it would still fit in-setting, it loses some of its justification if the characters don't use redlines to denote unsafe operating conditions for devices/machines. (Though I suppose that could be a viable way to justify the practice in the Continuum going forward - have them start using redlines in reference to the flowers.)
Other ideas I've been considering are variants on "overload", the obvious "poison [x]", or something like "Discord's flowers" (since they tie together power and insanity, and led to quite a bit of chaos), but I haven't yet come up with any names based on them that I'd deem sufficiently snappy. Absent further developments, I'm kind of tempted to vote for 4316652's "Overwoad" - a bit of a stretch, but a plausible-seeming sort of one, and I got a laugh out of it.
(Of course, that namewouldinevitably lead to a Triptych/Erfworld crossover....)4316710
For uncounted thousands of turns, there had only been one. Then came a Date-a-mancer powerful enough to be a living Arkentool. As far as anypony knew, she'd popped that way, just like the Princess. Then came—returned—a third, her turning and reincorporation so swift ponies thought it was Retconjuration. But then... then a caster leveled up. She was good, yes. Very good; even she barely remembered that she'd popped as a Weirdomancer, given how many disciplines she'd dabbled in.
But her wings aren't Weirdomancy. Given how she's still waiting for the flight special to show up, she's considering very, very good Foolamancy. And others are trying to figure out how a simple level-up led to becoming an heir of one of Erf's most powerful sides, including Charlie himself...
This works to a disturbing degree.
I didn't mention it in the previous blog you did the "stalling for space" thing on but you've done it again here so I'll bring it up. I don't know how to do it myself, ask FanOfMostEverything, but you can add a "Read More" button to a blog post to hide stuff behind a break and make people open the actual blog to read everything.
Now, lets go over the various points.
I've yet to read The Elements Of Elements, so I didn't know the Doctors Bear were in it. I've also yet to read Triptych proper for that matter. I really need to get around to the rest of this verse, especially the main part of it.
I didn't catch the Minotaur naming scheme, but I'm not into wrestling at all. I did like the use of "Referee" as an official high ranking title though.
I'd also like to see some of the "branch" magic talents they might have.
Clop is all well and good, but not every story about sex or sexuality needs to be clop. People just don't think with the brain in their skulls most of the time.
I feel bad for Celestia, but she really did hurt her chances in that bath. She really just needs to relax a bit though. At least she got a kiss out of it, so maybe Joyous isn't totally against the idea.
As for Celestia and her repressed sexuality, I'm with 4316378 on this one. But everyone deals with grief and loss differently, she might not be able to just let ponies go. But she needs to learn that thinking about sex and having sexual feeling is a part of being alive and that shaming herself for having them does no one any good, least of all herself.
Luna has a viable reason for not seeking out a bed-mate, she's still learning her place and how to stand on her own in a world that's changed so much. I get the feeling that in a couple of years there will be some more, ah, "fun" night clubs that get visited by a certain dark colored mare once she does have her hooves under her though.
Maybe Cadance can slap some sense into Celestia though. Please? It hurts me to see Celestia so deeply denying a part of herself.
As for the spoiler-ed text, wasn't there mention of another metallic in Ponyville in the second Ratchet story? Or maybe I'm getting things muddled in my head again.
I liked just how alien Sun was. It has a mind process unlike our own, but at the same time like our own. It's not a pony, or anything else that lives on the planet. It's something other and I just love that. I wish we could see how Moon is but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.
So, how long until they are both repaired enough to demand the return of USER ONE and USER TWO?
As for the scrying, yeah, that's a really strong thing. There's a reason "scry and die" tactics are a thing if you can pull them off.
I felt bad for everyone involved in Blessing. It's so easy to see Celestia as something more than she is and that just hurts everyone.
I eagerly look forward to when we get to find out what really happened to Star Swirl and can stop making wild guesses.
Luna learned the hard way that once you change, be it for better or worse or unknown, you can never go back to the way you were, not exactly. Time changes you, and you are always a different you in the now than you were in the past. Her change was a bit more significant than others but the same principals apply.
I like seeing the sisters to get act like, well, sisters. Though Celestia can stop bringing up that others won't see it like that. We get it already.
That's really neat art. Too bad she's so sad. At least she got a happy ending.
Now she just needs a "happy ending", preferably with the sisters. At the same time.
I just know that that spell is going to come up at some point. Don't know when and don't know how but I'm sure it's going to play a major part in something.
Glad the public breach thing didn't happen. Joyous had gone through so much already, that would have been too much. And having Celestia cast the Severance on her, in public, would be too dangerous. Sunhorse getting hit with the backlash from a triple corona interruption would be a Bad Thing (tm).
That's a sucker's bet. There will always be someone that stupid.
As for the flower name? No ideas here, but it doesn't really need one.
We might see more of the Invictus kids when we see more of the Discordian Era. And I would like to see more of both.
4316710 4316728
There was already a Erfwold + Friendship is Magic crossover. Find it on this site here or over on the Erfwold site here. Twilight being a Foolamancer was a stroke of genius and the whole story is great through and through.
4316616 Aha, thanks!
4316810
If I remember correctly, that's what shows up when you use a line ( [ hr ] minus the spaces) in a blog post. It's also useful for dividing up big posts into more manageable sections.
I saw and read that story when it was first posted here, and was actually considering linking it in my own comment. (And I second the recommendation for anyone who knows a bit about how Erfworld works.) That said, it's not quite the same as a crossover with Estee's Triptych Continuum in particular, as would be the result of going with that particular name.
4316710
How about... reviolet for a double pun?
4316918
I like that one, though I'm not sure I'm getting everything you're going for with it - just the "revile" association. My main (admittedly minor) concern would be that some readers don't know that not all violets (the flower) are actually violet (the color), and as a result could end up puzzled by the apparent mismatch between the magic-boosting flowers' name and description.
4316949
Well, in universe if they looked like violets with red petals but are poisonous, then red violet -> reviolet/revile-it makes sense, but for us out of universe folks what better to cause Redline than a rev-violet?
Honestly, I doubt anyone's gonna top Overwoad, but the thought occurred, so.
Ahh! I wasn't sure if you'd actually notice it or not, but I'm happy you liked it! It was a spur of the moment kind of drawing, I haven't drawn too many ponies before and your brand of pony fic is probably my fave.
I was thinking of the plant as "Poison Choke," if only for the pun factor.
I was one of the people for whom the big revelation of Sun and Moon did basically nothing. Equestria is after all already a fantasy setting in which everything is magical and the heavenly bodies are moved manually across the sky, so the step from that to "The sun and moon are living magical entities!" was... not actually very significant. Also, the fact that they spoke in computer bootup-speak did seem to suggest that the Triptych Continuum might be the Matrix, which would be really, really, truly dumb and did further damage to any impact the revelation may otherwise have had for me
So that's my one big complaint. Thankfully, the rest of the story more than made up for it.
For the flower name, I'm wondering if there's any pun potential in "Forget-me-not", since many of those afflicted end up forgetting themselves entirely... But I have no specific ideas for what that could be
Wait. If Joyous is the beautiful Pegasus mentioned in Anchor Foal then Anchor Foal is canon to the Triptichverse and not just a wacky what if?
So, the big reveal about Sun and Moon? I thought it was very cool and loved it, but the fact that Sun sounded like a computer made me nervous. I'm relieved this isn't going to turn into a simulation...I hope all mention of all-powerful creator humans or anything like that is completely avoided. I loved the dynamic between Celestia and Sun, and I wonder if Celestia could convince Sun to let her go more easily if she just visited more? I dunno. Rough on poor 'Tia.
4317961
Oh, it's still a wacky what-if, but not all of the details are automatically non-canon just because of that