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Aug
15th
2017

Season 7 Episode 14--Fame and Butthurt · 8:59pm Aug 15th, 2017

In this episode, M.A. Larson the writers (see first comment below, by Unknownlight!) tells us that it's not okay to be fans. If you have a favorite pony, if you care about continuity, good writing, or keeping characters in character, you're a bad viewer. You're not supposed to have opinions. Sure, you've supported the show for 7 years, but your opinions are worthless and you are stupid.

This shows that some of the writers somehow still have no understanding of fandom. Here's a quote from someone who does: Henry Jenkins, in Textual Poachers.

The meaning of "distance" here is similar to its meaning in my "Near vs. Far" post. It's also a term in literary criticism referring to how involved the audience is: a "close" or "proximate" audience is immersed in the story; a "distant" audience analyzes it logically as a work of fiction. masses enslaved.

The Marxist critical tradition assumes that the writer decides whether to suck the audience in close or keep them far away from a book or a play. Jenkins proposes, rather, that the whole idea that the writer can dictate the proper distance of the audience is an attempt to keep control in the hands of the writer and out of the hands of the audience. And that, I claim, is what the writers were so butt-hurt about while writing Episode 14: that they don't like it when fans don't watch the show the way they want them to.

p. 62:
Poachers [that's us] do not observe from the distance... They trespass upon others' property; they grab it and hold onto it; they internalize its meanings and remake these borrowed terms. ...Perhaps, rather than empowering or enlightening, distance is simply one of the means by which the "scriptural economy" works to keep readers' hands off its texts. For the distant observer, the text remains something out there, untouched and often untouchable, whose materials are not available for appropriation [like writing fan-fictions].... Proximity seems a necessary precondition for ... reworkings and re-appropriations [like writing fan-fictions].... The text is drawn close not so that the fan can be possessed by it but rather so that the fan may more fully possess it. Only by integrating media content back into their everyday lives, only by close engagement with its meanings and materials, can fans fully consume the fiction and make it an active resource. [E.g., something to write fan-fictions about.]
Agency is an important variable in this discussion: contemporary accounts of proximity and distance, particularly those from post-1968 ideological critics [Marxists and other leftists], treating them as if spectator "positions" were… something that happens to readers in the course of consuming the narrative [as opposed to positions which readers could choose to take].

p. 65:
... Proximity and distance are not fixed "positions".... Rather... viewers may move fluidly between different attitudes towards the material. As several accounts of fan culture suggests, a sense of proximity and possession coexists quite comfortably with a sense of ironic distance. In fact, fans often display a desire to take the program apart and see how it works, to learn how it was made and why it looks the way it does.

p. 66:
Analyzing the oral comments fans make during public consumption of Star Trek episodes, Cassandra Amesley (1989) finds evidence that fans see the fictional characters and their actions as simultaneously "real" and "constructed", adopting a strategy of "double viewing" that treats the show with both suspended disbelief and ironic distance. The characters are understood as "real" people with psychologies and histories that can be explored and as fictional constructions whose shortcomings may be attributed to bad writings or the suspect motivations of the producers.... Amesley (1989) suggests that this dual interpretive stance may be a necessary precondition for fans' creative reworking of the media content: "Recognizing Star Trek as constructed makes it possible to intervene in the construction; to take an active role in appropriating new texts or commenting on old ones" (337-338).

In other words, fans of a show watch it with two minds. They watch it as viewers, suspending disbelief and getting immersed in the story. They also watch it as critics, people who want to understand how and why it is the way that it is. Authors instead often want readers to keep their hands off "their" text, but that's not what fans do. They are not going to sit back passively and watch it the way whoever wrote this show wants us to. They're going to analyze it, pick it apart, and when they find parts that don't make sense, they're going to talk about them.

So the question the writers of "Fame and Misfortune" need to ask themselves is: Do you want fans, or don't you?

The show has had some great episodes. Plenty of bad ones have also made it to the screen, but Episode 14 excuses all the times a writer has said "Screw it; it's just a kid show" as introducing useful "character flaws". But flaws in the script are not, in fact, character flaws, they don't make the show better, and an adult should be able to own up to the stink when he craps.

The episode ends with a herd of adults outside Twilight's castle, representing bronies, complaining about issues of continuity and character consistency. Inside, two little foals, representing the little-girl target audience, tell the Mane 6 "thank you" for their friendship lessons.

After spending the weekend at Bronycon, where adult fans lined up to pay $20 for the privilege of an autograph from or photograph with a voice actor or songwriter--not one show writer turned up, probably because the con wouldn't pay them enough-- I find this obscene and ungrateful. We've been grateful and adoring, but we haven't been grateful and adoring enough.

By writing a 22-minute whine about how ungrateful we are, they're acting worse than the 12-year-old fanfic writer who deletes all the comments on a story because some of them were negative. I have two words for them: Grow up.

Report Bad Horse · 1,820 views · #review #MLP #fans
Comments ( 121 )

Nope, Larson didn't actually write this episode. He complained about it on a podcast months ago that one of his old, unused scripts had been borrowed by the current writers and scrambled into something unrecognizable. He didn't like that he would be credited as the writer.

I'll try to find a link to that podcast, I don't remember where I saw it.

Elsewhere, a group of journal readers accost Fluttershy, claiming that she "keeps learning the same thing over and over again", and accuse her of not being assertive enough. Before Twilight and Starlight can stand up for her, Fluttershy stands up for herself, arguing to the ponies that her journey to assertiveness was a slow one, not an instant one.

From the wiki.

This right here actually really annoys me. It's rather missing the point of the criticism isn't it?
It's not that she's not capable of standing up for herself in this instance. It's that as soon as you're no longer being directly called out on it, she's going to regress again, status quo met.

Fluttershy hasn't developed slowly. She just has outbursts like this every now and again, to give the illusion of character growth she hasn't had.

I feel like there was an argument here that was trying to be made that character flaws, written consistently, is good writing. I'd agree with that. Except the actual criticism is that the characters are written inconsistently, or aren't allowed to develop meaningfully, and as such the whole thing comes across as extremely tone deaf.

That being said, I've only read the screenplay, I haven't seen the episode itself. But I'm not exactly... thrilled with the underlying argument as I'm seeing it.

4635828 I'm relieved to hear that! Larson's interacted with the fandom more than any other writer.

TL:DR
I heard it was his very old idea and he don't have anything more than that with it

4635843 I found the EQD post about that podcast. I have no idea at what point he talks about it though.

Huh.

Weird, yours is the first negative reception to this episode that I've seen. I'm feeling some cognitive dissonance.

At least it wasn't "Slice of Life".

Why is there no options to give thumbs up for blog post, i want to put like 10 of them but i can't.

I think you had a point but it got lost in all the PISTOLS AT DAWN SIR MY SECONDS SHALL CALL UPON YOUR SECONDS.

Not that I don't insist upon my dignity and place in most parts of my life, or that I don't enjoy the rush of outrage I get when either are impugned. I do. More than most, I'm afraid--well, far more than you, at least. But that's because you're nice and I'm not.

Yet realizing that, in one particular part of my life, I am emotionally involved in a children's cartoon intended to sell plastic ponies to little girls--then should the writers of said cartoon attempt to call me out on the depth or nature of that involvement...well, I suppose might begin to feel outrage, yes.

But then my ironic sense starts tingling.

It seems you also missed the point. Here is my view on the episode here.

I'd like to know which bright spark decided to put this sucker in the airing order so that it showed over BronyCon weekend. That almost feels... deliberate.

And is M.A. Larson now the 'Alan Smithee' for pony-writers? Usually if one writer cleans up or writes out the concept created by another writer, the former gets a 'teleplay by' and the latter a 'story by'. Is it a violation of Guild rules to issue a 'written by' to a writer who doesn't want it?

I found this episode kind of obnoxious and preachy too. You're not alone.

this, this, and all this +1.

it makes me sad to see folks out and about the internets actually trying to defend the episode when they don't even realize its directly commentating on their behavior as fans of the show.

but what i don't understand is how they're still unsure how to react to their fans after 7 years. we got that fan shout out ep in ep100. then we get this.

was it meant to be a elbow to the ribs kind of thing?

I noticed something else no one else seems to be remarking on: That line where Twilight's gets huffy and offended that the CMC are using her friendship lessons for marketing. In the episode it works fine, but if you treat Twilight as the voice of the writers, man does it become hypocritical.

4635951

I also agree that he completely missed the point of this episode. I think you got part of it, but that there's more to it. This was more aimed at creators than fans. The message to fans was secondary.

My Thoughts on "Fame and Misfortune"

Overall, I thought it was very well done, and likely to be one of my favorite episodes. The only real complaint I have about it is that it's likely to go over the heads of their primary target audience.

4635951 4635974 The "point" that PiercingSight says the episode was making assumes that anybody who analyzes the episodes and says that some things were done well and other things were done poorly is a "hater". It divides all viewers into good viewers who just say "thank you", and bad viewers who criticize.

This was more aimed at creators than fans. The message to fans was secondary.

It is very specifically about MLP itself, so if it's aimed at creators, it's aimed at the people who wrote it. I think your misapprehension is because it isn't aimed at all. It isn't supposed to have an effect on anyone; it's just whining.

4635974
While I think there was a message to writers, it looks like the message to writers was secondary. Writers don't make up a very large part of the fandom. But there is indeed a message to writers which the writers apply to themselves, as if the mane 6 were their stand-ins.

The mane 6 learned, but the episode shows that the fans who are too concerned about the plot and characters to even see the lessons and then get angry about it are generally the type of people who don't learn and should be ignored. Which is correct.

Sadly, too many people in the fandom think the episode attacks the entire fandom, when it doesn't. It only pokes fun at those that are unreasonable with their critiques and completely miss the point of the show then get angry about it. That's who it pokes fun of.

So, this episode is and will be the most controversial episode in the entire history of the show, and may result in much lower views. However, the episode is correct about the lessons it gives, and while some did miss the point of it, they made it as clear as possible within the premise of the episode.

In short. I thought it was a good episode, but the reaction to it shows that communications between the writers and the fans are certainly not as clear or respectful as they ought to be.

4635992
They are not including everyone that has critiques. Not by a long shot. They are only including the people that are unreasonable with their critiques and then get angry with the writers when the writers don't follow them. That's who they are pointing at.

They weren't quite clear about it, but that's who they're targeting. Not the average fan that has critiques about the show.

4635968

it makes me sad to see folks out and about the internet actually trying to defend the episode when they don't even realize it's directly commentating on their behavior as fans of the show.

Can't people like something in spite of it's flaws or have a different interpretation without being it being sad that they aren't as smart as you?

4635992

The "point" that PiercingSight says the episode was making assumes that anybody who analyzes the episodes and says that some things were done well and other things were done poorly is a "hater". It divides all viewers into good viewers who just say "thank you", and bad viewers who criticize.

That's not even remotely true. Every example in the show was of somepony being unreasonably extreme in their criticism and attacking the writers for not writing the way they thought it should have been done. They cornered and angrily harassed Fluttershy FFS, something that certain types of fans have been known to do to the creators and voice actors at conventions.

It's that completely entitled, obnoxious fans who completely ignore the themes and values of the show, insist on treating the show as somehow their property, who make unreasonable demands upon or outright attack the people who actually do the creative work.

I think your misapprehension is because it isn't aimed at all. It isn't supposed to have an effect on anyone; it's just whining.

Touched a nerve, did it?

4635996

It was definitely poking fun at the less pleasant side of the fandom, but IMO the message wasn't aimed as much at them. Ultimately, in the end, nothing changes for the fans, they're still being just as obnoxious. The only things that change are for the Mane Six.

Counterpoint: I think the episode was fine, and fans who project specific messages onto it are seeing the negative messages they want to see.

The final lesson of the episode was that the Mane 6 needed to learn to deal with fame and accept the fact that people will be fans for different reasons (Dash: "I guess there are worse things than being told you're awesome all the time"), and at the same time they will be able to reach some of us with the important messages. I can't think of anything more accurate yet positive that describes our fandom.

And I laughed, because I have a sense of humor. :pinkiehappy:

Also, ponies bitching about this episode proves its exact point in delicious irony.

I thought it was a pretty funny episode, tbh. It's only 'hateful' if you can't laugh at yourself.

4636000

They are not including everyone that has critiques. Not by a long shot. They are only including the people that are unreasonable with their critiques and then get angry with the writers when the writers don't follow them.

Why do you think that? How would the episode have been different if they were including everyone that has critiques?

The most frustrating part for me is that the first half and the song all felt like a playful jab while the rest felt like exactly what was described here. The start of the episode was pretty meta (taking out the ancient journal, though it's condition felt very out of character for Twilight, and Starlight's manifesto) and a lot of the gags worked, in particular Twilight sending/letting Starlight teach the ponies who made Rarity cry a lesson. Unfortunately, too many of the scenes, particularly the Fluttershy one, felt malicious, completely twisting the complaints and being hypocritical (she did essentially write the same lesson multiple times in the book and was the only one to do so), while ignoring the actual complaints. The worst part was the ending where everyone was still fighting except for the two girls, completely ignoring that the CMC were abusing the book earlier, while the Mane 7 essentially acted disgusted towards the ponies outside. The way everyone suddenly treated the main cast was nonsensical as well (they wait until now to actually swarm and harass the cast, in general all sharing the same negative opinion about everyone except their favorite).

This episode could've been great. It could've been a playful jab at the fandom, it could've made fun of itself, it could've done something interesting with the characters (maybe even something with their statuses after the publishing), or maybe even an interesting learning experience Starlight (her seeing the mane 6 support each other through the entire debacle and never getting jealous of the others success). Heck, there was potential for a Spike episode here as well (oddly missing from this episode, when one of the most common complaints, at least more so than half the ones they brought up in the episode, is the general treatment of Spike). Instead, a fun and interesting concept gets turned into a soapbox that tries to paint the fandom as less mature than little girls and completely missing the point while trying to cover for its own flaws and blaming the fans for perceiving them as flaws... I also love how no one wanted to take credit for this episode and instead pinned it on Larson, essentially the fan favorite writer and the one that was closest with the fandom.

I'm with Trick on this one. It's easy to see it as a jab against the fans, but many of the ponies in the episode were being serious jerkwads. For the Fluttershy example, they cornered and harassed a mare they know doesn't handle confrontation well about why she hasn't completely internalized how to handle confrontation yet.. Rainbow Dash was hounded to the point where she couldn't work, and by laughing at everything Pinkie said or did she was robbed of giving anyone genuine laughter.

I think, at worst, they're calling out the more obnoxious and toxic among us while given the rest of us a playful tickle in the ribs.

4636080 ... and yet, all of the 3 examples you gave are things it is impossible to do, because those are fictional characters. So they're things no fan ever did. So they can't be calling out the more obnoxious and toxic among us.

4635996 The issue is, 1. You can't 'ignore' the type of stuff that was actually going on in the ep, none of which is resolved. How do you 'just ignore' a whole bunch of freeloaders camping out on your farm, eating all your supplies, and keeping you from getting work done? How do you 'ignore' your business crashing because apparently everypony in Equestria has become a huge asshole and, for no actually given reason, has hive mindedly decided to shun you? How do you 'ignore' groups of people cornering you, backing you agsint a wall and shouting at you every time you go anywhere? They pushed the issue, not only past the realm of plausibility, made the situation SO big, and then, didn't resolve it at all, the advice given, does not match the problem shown.

2. Then why is it all we see are the assholes and idiots, and don't see a counterpoint of more ponies getting it, and actually being like the majority of fans, instead of a near 100% asshole showing. Bar two fillies at the end. That is what is causing the issues, they showed nothing BUT the negative side, and no fans that weren't being assholes, making it therefore seem as if they are saying, ALL fans are like this.

I don't even think that was their intent, they just screwed up and made it far harsher and more cynical then it should have been, while also failing to make the story work on a logical level.

As you said after

They weren't quite clear about it, but that's who they're targeting. Not the average fan that has critiques about the show.

That is on them for not making that clearer.

The ep had some good, and had a good overall message it was trying for, but it just messed it up by sacrificing believablity and good storytelling for the sake of cramming in meta-commentary and allegory which is all the ep has to it, and also screwing those up by projecting the wrong impression through overdoing the cynicism and not showing any true counterbalance. Pushing the problems so far to the extreme. While adding in a lot of logical issues, like for example, royally fucking over Daring Do and betraying her trust by telling all of Equestria she's real and spilling that secret she trusted them with.

4636126
By demonstrating what poor behavior looks like in-show, I think they can. The characters are fictitious, but the writers, artists, musicians, and actors behind the show are quite real, and don't perform to expectations 100% of the time. By drawing a parallel between the in-episode narrative and the work on the show itself, we get a vision stress that comes with never being able to please everybody or do things perfectly all the time.

I would think we, of all people, would be able to commiserate.

I think another thing that really annoys me is, if you cut out the meta-commentary, this is an episode about how everyone in Equestria is a terrible, awful person.

4636126

 ... and yet, all of the 3 examples you gave are things it is impossible to do, because those are fictional characters. So they're things no fan ever did. So they can't be calling out the more obnoxious and toxic among us.

The Mane 6 are being used as stand-ins for the creative team. It's a representation of how they feel the fans treat the writers, rather than the characters directly.

4636061
Literally this.

4636126
...wait, are you saying that it's not possible to have an intended meaning that's fictionally expressed metaphorically, allegorically or hyperbolically? Am I reading you right?

After spending the weekend at Bronycon, where adult fans lined up to pay $20 for the privilege of an autograph from or photograph with a voice actor or songwriter--not one show writer turned up, probably because the con wouldn't pay them enough-- I find this obscene and ungrateful. We've been grateful and adoring, but we haven't been grateful and adoring enough.

Dude, come on. You're usually smarter than this. You have got to know how bullshit this is. Every type of bad fan they showed in the episode exists in the fandom. There are people that consider Rarity to be a greedy bitch that doesn't deserve to be one of the element bearers. There are people that still complain about Twilight being an alicorn. There are plenty of people that treat their subjective opinions on certain characters and episodes as objective fact and talk down to anyone that doesn't agree. And these types of fans exist, they weren't just pulled out of thin air. They not only exist, but they complain to the staff constantly over every little thing. Don't twist this to be a complaint about all criticism. Constructive criticism delivered in a reasonable manner is very different than the type of fans in this episode, and the type that complain day and night to the writers about Starlight Glimmer being a creator's pet or asking why the writers love to abuse Spike.

And secondly, seriously people, chill. Don't take every little joke about the bad parts of the fandom as some personal insult to you. You gotta be able to laugh at yourself and any fandom you're in once in awhile. Don't be the uptight fan that lost their humor.

4636316
The real difficulty here, and why this episode is causing such strife, is a certain amount of confusion as to the categories. The writers neglected to give any prominent screen time to any sympathetic adult fans, which leaves the fandom in a state of acute cognitive dissonance between "this is actually how we view our adult fans" and "this is a humorous look at how we see some of our adult fans."

(edit, small changes for clarity)

4636199
Remember when we all thought that Equestria was this earthly paradise full of nice, if a little flighty and spooky, creatures?

Then came that Iron Will episode that had everyone acting like proper cockbags, and it's sort of been the norm ever since. I guess this is to create conflict that resonates with conventional human sensibilities?

4636309 I'm responding to the claim that the specific things done by ponies in the show indicate that the writers were calling out only specific fans. Since the examples given of specific things done by ponies in the show don't correspond to specific fans, that claim is unfounded.

4636358
That makes a bit more sense, thank you.

Oliver #38 · Aug 16th, 2017 · · 1 ·

I agree that this episode was pointlessly mean, and yet, I don’t agree with the idea that this episode’s message is what you said.

In fact, I don’t agree this episode has a coherent message at all. Instead, it exemplifies the other problem the show has, and had for years: Being directed by committee.

This episode shows the hallmarks of being written by committee, with pieces not fitting together, being credited to a writer posthumorously, scenes which are funny individually and yet are not believable within the episode’s continuity, and when it’s actually televised with the production values of the rest of the show, this results in, well, this. Something hurtful and mean when it wasn’t intended to be, because it wasn’t intended, period.

Do not write meta episodes in the age of Twitter and cons, for you only further provoke the lurking demons.

Fandoms are full of obsessive, whiny pains in the ass who deserve to be mocked.

That's who was being mocked. And it's hilarious.

Eh. Maybe it's because I haven't been as involved (due to real life lel) that I didn't at all find the episode preachy. It was relatable and fun.

I agree with a great many of the comments here: how do you know for certain that this episode talks about every single person in this community, and not just a few? Bad Horse, seems to me that you begin your post based on the assumption that the episode talks about this entire community, and as a result, you never bother to examine if this assumption is correct.

(As a side note, in the book Naked Economics, they talk about how small interest groups are frequently more visible & powerful to lawmakers than the much larger, quieter majority. I think that perhaps, this can be applied to the episode: the paparazzi and other ponies are the louder, smaller interest groups (the obnoxious fans), which do not represent all of Equestria (the entire fanbase) - and indeed, the entirety of Equestria doesn't show up to Ponyville in this episode, so perhaps Equestria represents the quieter majority).

Judging by your reaction, I think this episode is the rough equivalent of shouting, "Hey ugly!" to nobody in particular and watching who turns around to angrily reply.

In other words, how confident are you that this episode is/isn't talking about you?

4635828
Just for the record:
s4.postimg.org/u88yo0y25/mean.png

This tweet has subsequently been deleted, but I have seen it with my own eyes. I forgot to make the screenshot and had to pick someone else's. The original address of that tweet was
https://twitter.com/M_A_Larson/status/896407881678962688 and it 404s now.

Yeah, this wasn't my favorite episode. Maybe not the worst, either, but it definitely rubbed me the wrong way. I'll admit to enjoying that bit with Fluttershy just because I've made that exact complaint before, so it was nice to know that they're aware of it and hear their rebuttal, though I'm not buying it. Sure, it takes time to change, but then why not actually show her developing instead of returning to the status quo whenever her personality isn't the focus of the story? I thought she had a nice little arc going in the first season, but it seems like they're content to keep recycling it instead of taking it further

Maybe they'd only intended to criticize a subset of the adult fanbase, as others have suggested, but then they did a piss poor job of it. Those portrayals, coupled with that ending, sure seemed to suggest that there is only one right way to watch this show — learning the morals of each episode — and any other approach is wrong. Screw that! I learned those lessons years ago. I watch this show for pretty much everything other than friendship lessons (though I do enjoy the occasional good one)

For the people who still don't get it, the only characters in the episode that weren't portrayed incredibly negatively were the mane 7 and the two girls (and Granny Smith, though she was just a gag). Every other pony in the episode was a massive, unrepentant asshole for the sake of it. You had ponies traveling to Ponyville just to be assholes for the sake of it, on the weekend of Bronycon... The only characters who weren't assholes were the mane 7, 6 of which are stand ins for the writers, and the little girls, the target demographic. The episode goes out of its way to not include any neutral or positive fans outside of target demographic (the only excited fans want the book signed to raise its value and the ones pestering Rainbow Dash, who eventually joined in the argument), making the mane 6 (writers) victims that have to dig through tons and tons of irrational harassment to find any positivity for their work. Don't even get me started on the implications of the condition of the journal.

Frankly, I doubt they intended it to come out that way, but that's what the episode was. I found it funny and chalked it up as another Feeling Pinkie Keen, where it was intended to be one thing but came out completely different, but that's because my opinion on the show isn't all that high. If you don't assume/treat this episode as a blunder and seriously analyze what happened on screen, you get exactly what this blog said. At best, it blundered its intention pretty badly (which isn't too uncommon for the show), at worst it was a malicious attack on the fandom.

Between the lack of any decent pony after the books come out, the blatant allegories, the lack of addressing any actual complaints or poking fun at itself, the song gag (the songs work in every other case, including convincing Shining Armor to trust a changeling), the timing of the episode, the weak justifications, the completely unbelievable circumstances (why is this the first time they are getting swarmed for being famous?), and everything being off for the sake of meta (why would Twilight just shove away the journal to rot like that? What pony would dare to say they liked Twilight more before she got wings in an episode where her being a princess mattered? Why is Twilight okay with essentially sending Starlight to deal with ponies? Where was Spike?), I find it very hard to argue that the episode wasn't hostile or whiney in execution. I don't know what the intentions were, and while I see it as a blunder, that doesn't change what happened in it. Maybe it was meant to target only the bad fans, maybe the particular writer is just an ass, maybe it was meant to be a playful jab, maybe it's a ploy by Hasbro to stir shit up and then release an apology to give the news a reason to jump on the fandom again (give them a reason to see the fan base as a bunch of hostile man children and they'll eat it up) to get people's attention in time for the movie. At this point, we'll probably never know.

You are taking this episode way too personally. The only people who should be offended are the sort of morons who attack the show staff on twitter on spit hateful comments into tumblr posts because they have nothing better to do with their life and a complete lack of social skills on top of it.

Those sorts of toxic as fuck people deserve all the mocking they get and at least 9001% more.

4636067

It would have been a lot longer, and a lot more boring, for starters. And it wouldn't have been able to make the point effectively, since the episode wasn't about the ordinary fans with ordinary criticism, so there would not have been the slightest reason to bring them up. Ordinary criticism isn't a problem, so it doesn't create an interesting conflict.

4636126

You're being almost disingenuously literal here. It's called a "metaphor", the Mane Six are clearly stand-ins for the show staff.

In point of fact, there are a significant number of fans who do act this way toward creators at conventions and other face-to-face venues. They will corner and harass authors and comic artists and animators and other creative staff, and be outright jerks to them. And they will be an order of magnitude more vicious in online venues. If you get the chance, ask MA Larson about his fan interactions after "Magical Mystery Cure", I think the answer will be enlightening.

4636316

Given some of the commentary here, and a lot of the commentary on EQD, that has been amply demonstrated. It's clearly not the show staff who are the ones being "butthurt" over this episode. Mirrors can be very ugly things.

4636057
I'm with Trick on all counts.

Also, speaking as someone who obsessively rewatches episodes to try and pick up on character nuance and fuel fanfics...

I'm not upset at all by them making jokes about people obsessing over the details on the show.

And I find it tremendously amusing that I, someone who is known for hating everything, enjoyed it. But then again, I'm a monster. :V


Back in the day, Animaniacs made this segment:

About people who obsessed over the show, actually using things from an actual thing posted on the Internet by fans (with their permission), about them pointing out trivia, minutiae, and errors.

Legendarily, the staff invited some of the people from that forum to go watch it with them... and of course, the fans in question thought it was hilarious.

And pointed out errors in the segment. :rainbowwild:

Of course, the segment itself was packed with the very trivia and minutiae that they were commenting on people not having a life finding, thus subtly poking fun at the show-creators themselves for making the segment, because they included such silly things precisely because some people would have fun noticing them. In fact, that segment was a playful shout-out to the very people it appeared to be insulting.

And the thing is, when you look at the episode in that way, it is obvious that you shouldn't be taking it as if they are trying to be mean, because the episode is stuffed chock-full of stuff which is specifically designed to appeal to people who care about continuity. It contains a bunch of references to past episodes, in-jokes, and minor background details you're not likely to catch the first time through, which is exactly the sort of thing that obsessive fans obsess over - and they deliberately included far more of that stuff than usual. If they were actually trying to insult people, why would they specifically include vast amounts of the very sort of material that obsessive fans like?

4636611

I disagree, in fact there were a large number of fans portrayed who were not unrepentant assholes. All the ponies who were laughing at everything Pinkie Pie said, or the ponies who were mobbing Rainbow Dash. They weren't being assholes per se, just a bit clueless and rude, like real people do all the damn time.

Then there were the collectors who hadn't read the book. They weren't assholes, just obsessed nerds who were missing the point.

In fact, I'd go so far as the say that the fans were fairly evenly split between clueless and assholes.

And, of course, there were Coconut Cream and Toola Roola.

There wasn't any point to having the non-problematic fans because they do not, by definition, become a problem; and therefore they would not have created a conflict for the episode to resolve. They would have been simply padding on an already tightly-constrained time frame.

4635833

Fluttershy hasn't developed slowly. She just has outbursts like this every now and again, to give the illusion of character growth she hasn't had.

Compare Fluttershy in season 1 to Fluttershy in season 4/5. The Fluttershy we see in season 1 is easily pressured into doing things she's uncomfortable with, struggles to say no, and has a hard time standing up for herself for anything. By season 4, when Rarity tries to rope Fluttershy into singing with the Ponytons in "Filli Vanilli", she actually starts out the episode by saying no, firmly, and noting that it isn't fun for her to perform in front of people - and, likewise, her friends are more accepting of her desire to not be the center of attention, rather than literally dragging her into things. In season 5, in "Scare Master", she actually takes the initiative to try something new by the end of it, but eventually decides it isn't her cup of tea. This is quite different from season 1, where episodes like "Dragonshy" and "Green Isn't Your Color" have her getting dragged into stuff by her friends and thrust into the center of things, no matter how miserable it made her, and where she's simultaneously terrified of the situation and terrified of saying no.

She is a lot better at saying no in the later seasons than she is in the earlier ones, and that is a genuine change in her character.

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