To the reviewers and the reviewed · 10:13pm Dec 2nd, 2012
I've been thinking a lot recently about those special readers who take time and energy to try to help writers. Between conversations with a few people about my own work or critiques I've seen on other stories, selecting judges for the AppleDash contest, and the recent downfall of the Train Wreck Explorers, it occurs to me that these people are a huge part of this site- whether they are prereaders and editors, helping the story as it's being constructed, or people after the fact offering advice and opinions.
As an author, this can be thrilling or frustrating. I was never in danger of being the target of the TWE, but I do know that a poorly thought-out critique can be laughable, frustrating, or even insulting. At the same time, there's nothing as amazing as getting a critique from someone who really understands what you were doing and offers opinions that dramatically improve the work or your future stories. I'm assuming here that people who are taking their time to write up reviews and critiques want to be those people authors can't wait to hear from and think about as they're putting a story together.
While plenty of people both on this site and off aren't shy about giving authors advice on how to be better writers, I've never seen anyone give advice on how to offer better reviews. Along with it is advice for authors on how to receive reviews- when to take advice and when to ignore it. Of course, reviewers could take my advice to writers and use it to decide whether to take my advice to reviewers, too.
As always, take this with a grain of salt. It's only my opinion here, but these are some guidelines I came up with:
How to review intelligently (and intelligently accept reviews)-
Read
Whether you write reviews or stories, the most important thing is that you read. A lot. Not only pony fic. Not only fiction. Read books on writing (How Not to Write a Novel is good and entertaining, though most authors swear by The Elements of Style and On Writing.) If you write or review a lot of short stories, read published short stories in magazines or collections. If you write or review romance, read some published romance stories for heavens sake (if you can't stomach modern romance novels, read the classic ones: Gone With the Wind, Jane Eyre, or the works of Jane Austen.) Read classic books and trashy books. Read reviews of books or movies by published critics. Look for conflicting reviews of the same material, and see what they disagree on.
You can't comment on something you don't understand. If you've never seen a style of writing done right, you can't tell an author they're doing it wrong. And authors, if you've never seen your own style of writing done right, you have no way of knowing if a reviewer is correct when they tell you you're doing it wrong.
Recognize that writing is an art, and therefore subjective to a certain extent.
Some people like a fast paced story with next to no description (me). Some people love flowery prose that takes pages to show you a forest (my husband, the Tolkien fan). Some people see Rainbow Dash as a strong character with a few carefully concealed weak points, others see her as one giant weak point barely held together by a veneer of bravado. These are artistic choices; writers, you are allowed to make the artistic choices you want. Reviewers, writers are allowed to make the artistic choices they want. You might not like it, but if you don't recognize where they made choices, your review is going to come off as uninformed to any writer with confidence in the choices they made.
On the other hand, sometimes a writer will fail to execute an artistic choice correctly. Feel free to comment on this, that's the job of a critic. But make it clear that you recognize the direction the writer was trying to go and feel he fell short, rather than simply telling them to do something differently. Writers, if the person reviewing seems to understand what you were getting at but has issues with the way you got there, you should listen to him.
There will be some artistic choices you've considered and just personally don't like. I'm you're going to comment on this, please remember that this is personal preference, not the holy law of writing. If you're mentioning this in a review, be prepared for the author to tell you to go read something else. Authors, how much attention you pay to these people is totally your call.
Establish yourself as an intelligent person/Look at the intelligence of your reviewer
It's not always a good idea to listen to a review. Reviewers are sometimes wrong, reviewers sometimes don't understand what you were going for. For a review to be worth anything, the writer has to have a certain amount of faith in the person writing it. This can be because they've established themselves as a writer who knows what they're doing, but that should be taken with a grain of salt. Some writers are happy to present their own style or methods as the holy law of writing, which is more harmful than just letting someone write bad stories. A better sign that this is a person to listen to is that they say or do something that shows they're thinking about this story in a thoughtful, intelligent way.
A good way for a reviewer to do that is to ask questions about what the author was trying to accomplish, or why the author made choices they did. Citing examples of how you recognize that a certain thing was done incorrectly (or not as well as it could have been) is another one- preferably professional works that show you're familiar with the subject, because even the best fanfiction is not a reliable example of how to do it correctly.
Another thing that can add to your credibility is life experience. For Gathering Rosebuds, I purposely asked female writers I knew to take a look at it, because they all had experience in being young teenaged girls at some point. If you have experience with caring for children, being in a same sex relationship, being in a long term relationship, caring for the elderly, or whatever is going on in a fic you're talking about, mentioning that should make an author take note, if it's not an experience that they've had in their life.
Writing is an art, and every holy law of writing has been successfully broken by someone (including rules of grammar.) We need to realize when we're dealing with someone who recognizes this and is trying to help us see where we weren't successful, and when we're dealing with someone who either isn't reading carefully, or has learned the imaginary holy laws of writing and established themselves as the writing inquisition. Reviewers are writing to persuade us that they are the person who noticed something we didn't, if they don't take that seriously, we're under no obligation to take them seriously.
Recognize that not everyone wants to be corrected/recognize how much being correct is important to you.
I live in a 90 year old house that I've been renovating for years, with assistance from friends and family. There are some things I've done to it that I never could have done without assistance from people who knew how to do them, who could point out what I did wrong and where I needed to improve. There are other things that needed to be done once, and I did the job well enough to work, and that's that. Pointing out I did it wrong is pointless, I don't really care, it does the job I need to to do.
Some people who are writing here want to improve, and some don't. Some people just wrote a story to get it out of their heads. Some people want a career in writing. Some people don't care, and just want to be popular.
As a reviewer, all of these things will affect how much they listen to your reviews. Now, you can't always tell these things, but sometimes you can sense it. Someone who asks people to read and review, or asks for constructive criticism, obviously wants to improve. Someone who says this is a stupid thing they wrote to get it out of their head probably is not looking for criticism. Someone with a large following probably isn't going to pay as much attention as someone with a handful of followers. Someone with a whole slew of bad stories about which other people have offered the same criticisms probably isn't going to pay attention at all.
Related, some authors (me) consider a story done once it's posted, for better or worse. While I'll make grammar and typo edits sometimes, any story-building advice is purely stored “for next time.” It's relevance depends on the same issue coming up again in a future story. Other authors will go back and rewrite entire fics because they feel they could be better thanks to reviews they received.
As for the authors, they all get to consider how much work they feel like putting into this hobby. It is something they're doing for free, after all. If they mainly write stories for a group of friends, and just decided to share them on the site, they don't have to take any kind of critique if they don't want to. If they want to be a professional author some day, they should listen closely and do some research of their own, considering carefully what advice they take and why. As a writer, our goals determine what kinds of things we want to work on, and that's just fine. This should be as much or little work as we want to do.
Be polite
This should be obvious, and I trust that no one who bothers to read my blog has a real problem with this. None of you guys are trolls. At the same time, it's easy for both reviewers and authors to be less-than-polite without realizing it.
One thing is to be careful about who you think you're talking to. You often don't know if the person on the other side of the screen is a 15-year old or a college student or someone with a college degree who has been professionally published. It's better to err on the side of caution until proven wrong, at least in terms of how you're addressing them.
Another is what I mentioned before, about recognizing when you're getting into personal preferences. Arguing a personal preference as a fact is a major sign of immaturity, only compounded by arguing with people on the internet. It's disrespectful both to the author who wrote it and to readers who happen to disagree with your preference.
Finally, be gracious. Understand that an author put at least an hour into producing something they thought someone might enjoy. (An hour is about how long it takes me to write a thousand words if I know what I'm writing, so I use it as the minimum it would take to write anything that goes up on the site.) And authors, understand that a reviewer spent time reading and thinking about your story, and writing a review. Even if you consider the story or review worthless, think of it like a crummy Christmas present and remember to thank the person accordingly.
In closing, I hope this helped some folks out there, critics and writers both, or at least gave them something to think about.
565838
That's your answer to everything.
565995
The one thing I have trouble dealing with as a proof reader, is people unwilling to go back and make changes that will improve a story for the better.
The other side of that coin is that it sometimes opens up new paths in the story that you wouldn't have thought of... so I suppose it all balances out in the end.
If you're asking for advice/criticism though, I feel you should be prepared to go back and make your story the best it can be.
Well said, friend.
Wee I for one appreciate people giving me their honest opinions on my stories rather than just writing "MOAR" "GJ" "OMG TEH ROCKXOR" or other similar trivialities. You say that with the thumbs up/down. And nothing, NOTHING is better than getting a well-thought out critique that is there only for the purpose of helping me improve as a writer. We are not professionals. We are not perfect. We make shitloads of mistakes. And we can always improve. And I've gotten a lot of those on this site, and am very grateful to those people.
I never even knew about the TWE before one of them started talking about it getting dissolved in his blog. Apparently he was a member, but I always thought him to be a very nice guy. He's the only thing I can use to formulate an opinion on them, which means I can't really say anything about this whole situation. I just hope people won't get afraid of critiquing my or anyone else's stories, because then we can't see what we are doing wrong in our stories.
566008
That's the point I'm getting at. Better is relative. We're talking about a piece of art here- there are wonderful authors out there who do things thousands of different ways. Many people will tell them they could be better (a lot of people hate JK Rowling's writing style, for example. But it looks like more people don't think she needs to be "better.")
Are you showing the author examples or explaining clearly to prove that you understand the kind of story he wants, his vision, and this will help him achieve it? And are you respecting the level of quality he wants in his work? Both of those things are important, and they are your responsibility as a prereader, the same way that writing a quality story is the responsibility of the author.
566060
Yes, but not all reviews will help you improve. For example, I've had two reviews in the past month. One told me that I use too many dialogue tags ("she said." "Dash replied".) Many people will tell you that those are unnecessary where there are only two characters in the scene because you know who's talking. Another person said I use too few, that it's confusing even when it's only two characters.
Which review was helpful?
Neither of them. I've read enough books to know that both styles are perfectly valid. And neither source was one who'd proven their qualifications to me.
A big part of learning to be a better writer is knowing when someone is telling you the wrong thing. It's learning to understand how you need to tell this story, and learning who understands the way you're trying to tell it and is trying to help you with that, versus people who think they know the holy law of writing and want to teach you. There is no holy law of writing, and anyone who tells you differently is wrong.
Thanks for saying this. It really needed to be said.
566115 Well said. And there are also loads of people who seem to confuse "constructive criticism" with "my personal opinion". As in, matters of grammar and mechanics vs. matters of story, taste and style. I care very much for the former, being a non-native English myself. And the latter ones I completely ignore.
Best thing I can think of is once again from Suited For Success. Do what you do how you want to do it. But I'd add: Remember to be humble and consider the critique you receive. Consider - not blindly follow of course.
I was also talking with a friend of mine on this site about being an editor. I was helping him with his story, but I had to admit that I wasn't cut out for it, because I kept trying to improve his writing and story by bringing it closer to my own. He thanked me for being honest, and told me he had'nt been able to say it out loud because I was helping him so much. Heh. People and communication.
Wow, long post.
There's a lot to be had from this particular post, from my opinion at least. I myself go around trying to help people improve by their standards; I try to remain humble and say NOT what I know is wrong, but what I don't think works. I will admit freely that I, being the dimwit I am, don't know how to tell the difference between people that want to improve from people that want to have fun. It's one of my many flaws.
I do agree with everything in your post. I should probably stop reviewing, since I immediately break the "Establish yourself as an intelligent person" note. Yeah, everything you've said here appears to make sense (to me, at least).
I personally have a huge fear of not being a good reviewer. I want to help people, and I don't want to come across as efficient or insulting. I'm also frightened about having one of my critiques not being valid; I have way too many fears.
Anywho, I think this blog shall help me a lot in the future, and I thank you for writing it; I would also like to apologize if I come off as dumb in this post (even though I am). I do hope you at least got something, even if it's a reassurance of your own talents, from my review on your DaringCora story.
Also, this needs to be said by me: 566312 English ISN'T your first language!? Geez Louise, when I read "Lead. Care. Inspire." I couldn't tell at all! Great story, by the way.
566544 Yeah. I'm Finnish. And thanks a lot for the compliment. Been reading in English since they didn't translate books into Finnish fast enough.
And you should see the feedback ripping my stories to shreds the few times I've submitted to EQD. But at least they provided very, VERY good advice and sources from which to learn. Last time they told me about "talking heads" and using too much passive, and being clearer about the narrator and POV — all of which I've found to be real weaknesses in my writing and have since tried to learn more about and improve. It's such a pity that great people like them are wasted as pre-readers, because Dear Celestia my stories would be so much better with someone like that. But that would also take the learning and improving aspect out of writing, and that's the bottom reason I came to FIMFiction, and also the reason why I DON'T have a pre-reader or an editor. Maybe I should consider getting one but... it feels like cheating.
Rant much?
566588
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to follow you. This, ^ right here, helps me out a lot. I've been unable to get anything put out here because I want it to be perfect. I should get stuff out here so I can get feedback as I go along.
Ranting's fine every once (or thrice
) in a while. 
And yeah, useful feedback is a blessing. Heck, this and this are what I consider to be my best critiques, so I need A LOT of work. But yes, feedback is fantastic.
Thank you for replying.
566544
I took many things from your review! It was wonderful and useful and well thought out. There were a few things I disagreed with, but for the most part you presented them politely as opinions, so they're there for me to consider and decide if I feel they apply. That's just fine with me, I never mind hearing opinions on what I could do better, as long as people don't present them as facts or a writing lesson.
Along with that, if you're not secure about "credentials" in terms of presenting yourself as an intelligent reviewer, your humility is your saving grace. Offering opinions is slightly, but importantly, different from offering critique- for a writer who doesn't have a lot of confidence in their voice, opinions leave them room to consider a different way of doing things without feeling like they have to stand up to an "expert" (no matter how wrong that "expert" might be.) For an experienced writer, it makes it easier to take some of your suggestions and and decide against others without laughing off the whole review.
In terms of knowing who wants reviews and who doesn't, no author can expect you to be psychic. The key is just to understand that some authors are going to ignore what you write, some will take your suggestions and process them in different ways, and there's no way that authors "should" be responding to you. (Just like there's no "right" way for people to comment on a story.)
I'm very glad if this helped you. Very few people offer reviews for the reviewers, but you guys are doing an important job and should understand better than anyone that doing it better will only make a stronger community!
(On a side note, for an example of doing it wrong, have a look at the comment by vazak on the DaringCora story (comment #30). While it was positive over all, he offered critique that I have no reason to take seriously. ("Show, don't tell," which: A) I think should be erased from the vocabulary of some reviewers (and big name authors *ahemkitsahem*) because most of them throw it around with no consideration to what it means or how important it is (or is not), and B) Bad Horse and Equ-us, two people who established their intelligence both there and perviously, were having a much more interesting discussion about in the comments before and after.)
I think the absolute most important thing to remember when reviewing is to end on a positive note. Simply saying, "This is bad and here's why" isn't as helpful as some seem to believe. Suggesting ways to improve and actually acting optimistic (even if you're just pretending) that the author can actually improve their story with some work will make a huge difference in how the author responds to the review.
Just from personal experience, if I'm asking for criticism it's because I know my work had problems. I might even already know what those problems are. But when I'm just given a list of problems, I get frustrated. I'm inexperienced, I know my writing is bad, I would really just like to know how I can make it better.
566868 Oh great. Another stalker.
Well, if your reviews are half as good as what OP gives you credit for, you're always welcome to bite into my works.
You gotta use the compliment sandwich! I've gotten enough papers back to know that it definitely helps, and as an aspiring teacher I hope to use it to as well, and hopefully to good effect. My first reaction to any criticism I put a solid amount of time into is to get a tad defensive, but I usually see what people are saying and take what I feel is appropriate into consideration. Besides, I feel by posting anything on the internet you're almost inviting criticism, and sometimes its not all that well thought out (Derp, this is dumb, etc) so getting a lengthy, well thought out review is always like hitting the jackpot. These tips seem solid to me - I usually just end up praising the author or rambling on about stuff I liked in any "reviews" I leave, if I haven't devolved into wild speculation on future chapters by then.
tl;dr - Well said
>None of you guys are trolls
I love you
heh, figured you should be made aware of that.
I have the dubious honor of being a lifetime member
Especially when people are trying to use present-progressive tense...
569663
As long as you never say a word to me about showing and not telling, we can still be friends. I'm so very close to writing a blog post on that already, and what pointless advice that is.
570005
Ooh! Please do!
. . . if you want to, I mean.
570005
...I s'pose if you don't explain that it's useless advice, but otherwise I've always thought it was perfectly acceptable.
570053>>570550
Done! (In case you missed it.)
Strangely enough, most of the reviews I get are either too generic, or overly analytical of some personal aspect of the piece that the reviewer didn't agree with as a matter of style. For example, I got a nice lengthy review almost immediately after I posted the first three chapters of my first story here, and it went into detail complaining that I poured out too much information to the reader in the first two chapters, and built up my world too much. Then criticized my use of dialogue, because, well according to the reviewer; they talked too much.
90% of that review was the reviewer telling me their personal preference for my work, and the rest was showing me how to use dialogue punctuation. Which, whoops, I actually sort of forgot to upload the edited chapters to the site, and went back and fixed. But all in all the review wasn't really helpful. It was a boastful braggish, and self-glorified comment that served me almost no real purpose, unless I wanted to seriously consider rewriting my whole story, which is already under massive revision, and has been underway for almost two years.
As a writer, there is nothing more irritating and egotistical, than to have a reviewer lay down the "I'm better than you, and you should know this, but since you don't, and you posted here, I'll humor you with an example of how awesome I am, and quip about what I personally don't like with your story."
Aside from pointing out my error in posting the unedited version, complete with bad dialogue punctuation, I took the whole review as a pile of crap. I understand that not every reader/reviewer will love and adore everything I pen, or type; but audacious claims, unwarranted elitist prigish reviews, and my personal favorite: I don't like this kind of story, so I don't read them, so I won't like yours, but good luck with your endeavors.
These comments are usually overlooked by me as being amateurish, and worthy of the delete button. If I can't get an unbiased opinion, with positively reinforced criticism, on an adult level, then i don't pay then any attention.
The best fprmula for a critique you can ever give someone is good thing, thing that could be improved, good thing.
But man, is that simplistic. Lol. As I review more and more things (and read more reviews by others) I can see how people abuse that framework, haha.
I don't get so much time to give critique on things these days, I do too much proofreading to give it to authors who don't ask for it (though if it's really hard to read, I offer advice to find a proofreader through the proofreader's group on this site). My comments mostly end up being more a fangirlish babble of things I liked or tiny little nitpicks on typos or word errors. Lol.
But having been both on the giving and the receiving end of good and bad critique over the years (I did a creative writing course. That was enlightening for more reasons than what the teachers taught), I've got a bit of a filter. Have to filter out my emotions more when it comes to reviewers with slightly less tact, though, haha.
All in all, it's awesome to see advice like this. I hope there are both writers and reviewers who will take this on board.
Sorry, I think I had a point and lost it in all my chaotic thoughts about reviewing and proofreading, haha.
Thanks for this excellent advice! (I was brought here by Bradel's mention of this in his latest story's comments.)
I watched Brandon Sanderson last week give similar advice in his class lectures, this particular segment on writing group essentials being for the students in his class who would be reviewing pieces of each other's on-going work, but it absolutely applies to this subject for individual contributions.
All of this and some excellent advice I asked for and received yesterday will (hopefully) help me make more valuable contributions here. I'll absolutely want that when I finally publish a story, so it's only fair...
This should actually come in handy for when I finally get going into the reviewing world. Got WRITE and TRG applications just sitting around needing to be completed. XP