How would you guys improve on Sunset's evil plan so that it would have a better chance at actually succeeding?

I would personally take out the whole mind rape and take over element and just have her focus on getting revenge on Twilight and Princess Celestia. And what better way to get revenge than to destroy one of the weapons that actually keep harmony in Equestria? So she steals the Element of Magic to the Human world and she actually lets Twilight win the Fall Formal without any interference, thus giving Twilight a false sense of security. Once Twilight wins the crown, Sunset then dognaps Spike. But instead of giving Twilight the "crown or way home" thing, seeing as how Twilight could easily call her bluff, she gives Twilight an even more drastic ultimatum. Twilight either gives up the crown or she watches Spike die, while Sunset also reminds her that there is a time limit.
I would say that this plan leaves very little room for error, and would make Sunset a genius tactician.

But how would you improve it?

That is of course assuming this is still evil Sunset in EqG 1...

Well start off with corrupting the students and faculty right after going into demon mode, next have them restrain the Mane 6 and follow up with Sunset brainwashing and corrupting them in succession, and finally wait until the next 30 moons for the portal to open again allowing Sunset to build her demon army to attack Equestria with a combination of military weapons and magic.

Easy, how every villlan would win: When Twilight is firing her beam of friendship, go up and hit 'er with a sledge hammer. Brain dead Twilight equals ending the Elements of Harmony, yeah?

Or attack Twilight while she is giving her patented friendship speech. Same result in the end.

4733880 IMHO, her evil plan was fine already. Her major flaw was that the theft of the Element went south.

Imagine Sunset had gotten away with the theft. Twilight wakes up, probably realizes her crown is a fake easily, but since Sunset wasn't seen sneaking around last night, it's unlikely anyone will think of that for the cause, and they'll initiate a huge search for who could have stolen it. Meanwhile in the other world, Sunset wins Princess of the Fall Formal easily, seizes the crown, and goes raging she-demon and brainwashes the students to serve her.

Students cross over, transform into ponies which will certainly include pegasi and unicorns, castle guards are scattered patrolling the city for the Element thief, not that anyone was expecting the mirror to be used anyway, Twilight and the Mane Six lack the Element of Magic to fight back properly, and Sunset can possibly still use the Element to brainwash ponies to her cause as well. Begin chaotic invasion of Equestria from within the castle itself with nopony prepared to deal with it.

Then the heroines regroup and kick her ass back through the mirror. It took Tirek the magic of dozens if not hundreds of ponies, as well as Discord, to match the power of four alicorns in Twilight's Kingdom; even with an army and the Element of Magic, there's no way Sunset could beat the four princesses and possibly Discord, if he happened to be around. But then there's no version of Sunset's invasion plan where she isn't just halted by that level of opposition - her invasion never could have worked. She may have had a plan to deal with them, but if she did we'll never know.

4733977
That's interesting.
Personally, I always felt like the the reason Sunset wanted to rule Equestria was for revenge against Celestia for replacing her and Twilight for being her replacment. That's why I think it would have been smarter to just outright destroy the Element of Magic, because without it, Equestria is fucked. Thus Sunset gets her revenge without any mind rape and a total embarrassing defeat by five god-like beings.

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This has been answered when EQG1 was in the theatres: By stealing the crown from Celestia's office rather than waiting for the Fall Formal.
It's a school, not a bank vault. How hard could it have been? And getting caught/ being seen didn't matter because as soon as she got her hands on the crown again, she would be leaving Earth.
And this would have given Twilight no time to acclimate or make friends, hence no group of 6 to rainbow-laser a Crowned Sunset.

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By stealing the crown from Celestia's office rather than waiting for the Fall Formal

I think this has to do with her wanting to prove that she's better than Twilight, by being declared Princess of the Fall Formal.

Well, that's about as much sense as I can make out of it anyway, this is EQG1 we're talking about after all.

4733880

I'm not sure I would call taking a dog hostage for petty revenge a genius tactic.

4733977

I actually doubt she ever wanted to go back to Equestria in the first place. And I seriously doubt she would have made an army of high school students and don't know why so many people think that, just because she wanted to flaunt her powers and the school was apparently not built next to a conveniently placed military base.

How it should of ended? Get a gun and kill Twilght. Best plan ever.

Simple I wouldn't change anything

4733880 Don't use bloody teenagers to fight a land of magical creatures and goddesses.

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Actually Twi still needed the crown. It was shown onscreen that Twi was siphoning power from the crown even while it was on Sunset's head. The EoM simply recognized Twi as the master rather than Sunset.

(I keep wanting to type SusNet...)

4734072

I actually doubt she ever wanted to go back to Equestria in the first place. And I seriously doubt she would have made an army of high school students and don't know why so many people think that

Because she outright said so.

Spoiler alert: I was bluffing when I said I was going to destroy the portal. I don't want to rule this pathetic little high school; I want Equestria! And with my own little teenage army behind me, I am going to get it!

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That's the original transcript? Huh...
Consider me educated, I guess.

4733880

Honestly, I'm not sure how Sunset got as far as she did in the first place.

Like, how the hell did she know that she would be able to steal Twilight's crown on the exact night the portal opened? How did she know where Twilight's room was if the mirror used to be in Canterlot and the Crystal Empire only reappeared recently? For that matter, how did she even know Twilight was a princess, or that she was using the Element of Magic as her crown, or that the elements had even appeared again for the first time in a thousand years?

The whole plot hinges entirely on Sunset having access to very detailed information that she doesn't seem to have any way of acquiring.

4733977

Pretty much. Also, she might have gotten away with it anyway if she hadn't bumped into Fluttershy and dropped the crown. Otherwise she could have just put in on her head right away and started brainwashing people with devil magic.

Basically, it was bad luck.

4734278
Celestia's finest student was defeated by bad luck, and Fluttershy.

4734278

Like, how the hell did she know that she would be able to steal Twilight's crown on the exact night the portal opened? How did she know where Twilight's room was if the mirror used to be in Canterlot and the Crystal Empire only reappeared recently? For that matter, how did she even know Twilight was a princess, or that she was using the Element of Magic as her crown, or that the elements had even appeared again for the first time in a thousand years?

The whole plot hinges entirely on Sunset having access to very detailed information that she doesn't seem to have any way of acquiring.

Amen. Everyone notes the first EqG wasn't very good for the cliched teen high school plot or the poorly developed characters, but I always found this the most glaring plot hole. Sunset must have access to some sort of scrying ability or double agent in Equestria.

I feel like the army of high school students might have worked better than people think. I think the ponies of Equestria would have a hard time fighting their own people. If Sunset was smart about it, she could use her army as human, er, pony shields while she consolidated her power. Keep in mind that we don't actually know how powerful she was in her demon form- the Elements of Harmony/Rainbow Power successfully defeated Nightmare Moon, Discord and even a superpowered Tirek, so she could have been powerful enough in that form to have had a shot against the Princesses. She probably figured that once she neutralized the Element of Magic, the greatest threat to her conquest would be gone. Granted, the Elements don't work that way, but she had no way of knowing that.

4734278
Actually, she tripped over Spike's tail (which was held out at the very last possible second), and lost the crown in the portal because Twilight tackled her from behind.

4734072
It puts a lot more pressure on Twilight to make a choice and, knowing Twilight, she would not simply take a chance to have one of her friends die because she chose to have them die. That is what I mean. Sort of what Maulgrim did to Peter Pevensie in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe movie

4733889
Of course. Who else could I be talking about?

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There are so many things that could go wrong that I doubt it would be worth the risk

4734106
HUH?
WHY?

4734503

Ah, I remembered that part wrong, then. I only recalled that it was Fluttershy's fault the crown ended up back in Celestia's care. It was still bad luck, though, since if Fluttershy hadn't been there, Sunset could just have picked it up when she returned.

All in all, it was actually not a bad plan - mainly because of how simple it was.

4734294

Celestia's finest student was defeated by bad luck, and Fluttershy.

I laughed harder than I should have.

4734620
Yep, classic Deus-Ex-Machina defeat My Little Pony: FiM is known for.

If you're talking about normal Sunset's plan, then have her threaten one of the Humane 5 instead of the portal. Sure, she wouldn't actually go through with it, but Twilight doesn't know that. If you're talking about Demon!Sunset, then have her sic the brainwashed students on Twilight. She wouldn't dare hurt brainwashed innocents, right? Exploit her status as the all-loving hero.

4733977 I think her intent was to use her brainwashed army as a bargining chip. If Celestia or Luna, or anyone in Equestria tried to attack her, she would use the innocent teenagers as shields, likely planning on the princesses refusing to hurt said innocent teenagers just to get to Sunset Shimmer. With that bargining chip, she would force Celestia to surrender, and take over Equestria.

4735024

have her threaten one of the Humane 5 instead of the portal. Sure, she wouldn't actually go through with it, but Twilight doesn't know that.

That's the beauty of it. You see, when Sunset threatened to destroy Twilight's way home, Twilight saw through the ruse because of what she knew about the portal. But if Sunset threatened one of Twilight's friends, there would be an even greater risk because Twilight is not a mind reader, thus she would be unable to tell if Sunset was serious about it or not.

4735024

the all-loving hero.

All-loving hero... Twilight?

I'm sorry, but the one who would mind-rape things to fix a problem is an all-loving hero? Not in my book!!!

4735265 If you're referring to Lesson Zero, then that was a plan born out of desperation and sanity slippage, not representative of Twilight as a whole. If you're referring to Swarm of the Century or Bats!, then the parasprites and bats are not only non-sentient, but Twilight only resorted to the "mind-rape" plan AFTER the other methods failed.

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The reason I wouldn't change anything is because her plan was almost fullproof. If she got the crown (which she did) she would be the only one in the human world with magic. Think about it, the only reason she lost was just because of pure luck. The humane six obviously didn't know they had the power to pony up. If they didn't pony up, Sunset would've defeated them.

Also, seeing as how she had the entire school under her control. If Twilight even made the slightest mistake in trying to become the fall formal princess. Everyone would've voted for Sunset.

Plus, seeing as how forgiving Celestia is. I'm not sure if she would be wiling to fight against Sunset. She does ask Twilight in the end of the film if Sunset is okay which shows that she still cares for Sunset.

I know alot of people complain how stupid her plans were (like literally just gluing pictures of Twilight playing soccer onto pictures of Twilight wrecking the fall formal decor) but they still worked didn't they.

4735300
But it still shows that Twilight doesn't love everything as all-loving is defined
Plus, the comics come into play as well.

4735300

To be fair, she did that, what, twice? Thrice if you count the Want it Need it spell? The problem is that in the two instances where she wasn't crazy, she didn't think one second that mass mindrape is, you know, kinda wrong. -Knight of Raven

Also, Twilight did it without even considering the possibility that rewiring something's brain could have extremely negative side effects that would make it backfire in her face.

4733880 For some reason, the FF crown looks just like the crown from Equestria and I think this is an important detail in Sunset's reasoning. Not to mention she is from Equestria and likely has the decency to not kill other sapient beings, like Spike.

Could Sunset have simply stolen the crown from Equestria? Yes, but replacing it with the FF crown would have helped to cover her tracks and still eliminate the elements of harmory as a future threat. This would also give her the element of surprise when she would return to Equestria. Imagine if the crown went missing with 3 of the Princesses knowing where an open mirror portal exists. Somepony would already be on her trail.

But this would then pose a problem in the human world: it would look like Sunset stole the FF crown if it wasn't replaced with the element of harmony. It would be a lot easier to take control of a school's populace when they are centralized around a dance rather than divided throughout the entire building. With this in mind, Sunset only had to keep the crown at the school, knowing it was effectively her's by being FF princess. She couldn't exactly flaunt it before the dance without being in trouble.

Could she have kept the crown and used it elsewhere to secure an army? Maybe not. If Sunset needed a high population density to have an instant high yield of zombie slaves, a high school is a fair bet. Not to mention the portal is right in front of the school; it would appear even stranger if people from all around town began to congragate around a high school. By using the closest density of population to the portal and time it right so no one could follow (i.e. right before the portal closes), Sunset acquires an army without human resistance. After all, it is possible she wasn't ever prepared to fight off a domestic or military response. A she-demon can still be shot and high school students typically are not armed.

And once through the portal, all she needs these zombies to be are meat shields. Would peaceful Equestrians be willing to harm those that are simply mind controlled? She doesn't need human weapons anymore than the changelings did.

Really, all she needs to do is wait most of the time:
1) Switch crowns
2) Win crown
3) Enslave a populace without human resistance
4) Cross the portal just before it closes
5) Be a magical she-demon with meat shields and no opposing EoH and no human force coming after the teens
6) ???
7) Profit

She just didn't account for tripping over Spike's tail in the Crystal Empire.

This also may just be beer making use of the movie's contrivances.

Does everyone keep forgetting that fucking Discord, the guy who can pretty much do what he wants and also doesn't give a damn about what happens to innocent bystanders as long as he can get a laugh out of it, is a factor in this whole scenario?

4735566 Kinda forgot 'cause beer, but we know Discord can't easily defeat the EoH. Idk what he could do about a corrupted one.

Plus, would Fluttershy let him?

4735602 If it meant saving Equestria, maybe she would let it slide.

4734581 In my opinion, in order to beat the Elements of Harmony, Sunset would have to take out the leading element, Twilight (magic) first. After that, the rest of the elements would crumble without the 'main' ingredient. Then Sunset will have her chance to conquer and rule Equestria before Tirek or any future MLP:FiM villains get their chance first!

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They're not really Deus Ex Machina, though: They are coincidences in favor of the protagonists. A true Deus Ex Machina is specifically an unprecedented force that appears only to resolve a major conflict without direct effort from the protagonist. It's when a "god" literally descends from heaven and hands the heroes a pro bono miracle.

Using coincidences to get the heroes out of trouble is considered lazy writing by some, but in this case it didn't even resolve the main conflict: In fact, it sets the conflict up: Because Sunset was unable to make a clean getaway and subsequently lost the crown, Twilight had to unite the Humane Six and beat Sunset at the Fall Formal. In that sense, it was actually fortunate that things happened the way they did, both in terms of storytelling and in the context of the story.

See, getting the crown back wasn't what the story was really about. It was about setting right everything Sunset had done wrong.

If Sunset's original plan had worked out without a hitch, she would have "won" and returned to Equestria with an army, which would basically have caused a huge mess. If Twilight had somehow stopped Sunset on her own and taken back the crown early on, the Humane Six would have remained on bad terms and Sunset may never have been redeemed. So, through a few vital twists of fate, what we got was actually the optimal outcome.

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Wow. The Elements of Harmony work in mysterious ways.

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Destiny is kind of a major theme in FiM, and destiny can look sorta roundabout until you see the big picture.

4733880 The plan's huge flaw was logistics. Why run away with the element to the human world only to return three days later? Sunset should have either stolen the crown just before the mirror closes, thus giving her two years to prepare her invasion without interruption, or she should have used the element straight after stealing it. The timing that she used just made no sense.

However, I believe that in the end even with improvements, there is no way her plan could have ultimately worked. An army of highschool zombies is just no suitable force to invade Equestria.

4733880

That highly depends on what motivation we assume Sunset had in mind.
There are at least two options: two prove some point to Celestia or to have a revenge against Celestia. I can imagine some more. And the best course of actions would differ for the cases.

Personally I would like to see Sunset in disguise trying to start her own nation, using principles completely opposite to what Celestia uses, and then eventually overgrow old Equestria.

4733880 well instead of mind controlling teenagers, go on a rampage to lure the police and military to respond then mind control them and sent them with their weapons into Equestria.

She turned Snips and snails into demons, do that to everyone. when Twilight uses super rainbow power, teleport away, mind control the military, turn Twilight into swiss cheese. Go to Equestria, pull a Tirek on Discord, go into hiding after inevitable failure. Enlist help of changelings and Tirek, Resurrect Sombra from remains of his horn, Enlist his help. let hidden changelings feed off of crystal heart. Retake crystal empire, crystal heat is now spewing hate. Equestria is demoralised, and most likely infighting, sabotage remains of government with changelings. before next bit, here's a math equation.
love charged chryssie > Celestia, ergo, Tirek + Sombra + love charged Chryssie + Demon Sunset > Celestia + Luna. Kill the royal sisters, use Sombra's army and changelings to take over equestria. Immediately Mind control all main villains so they don't betray her. Bring leftover Demon teenagers, and Human military to aid fighting off invaders. Retrieve gryphon Idol to become empress of Gryphons. Now own Equestria AND gryphonstone.

Edit: Threaten Fluttershy until leaves for human world forever, tell him that if he returns, Fluttershy dies. Make Fluttershy live forever, so she can always be used in event of Discors return. If he attacks anyway, Kill Fluttershy, In his shock have Tirek absorb his power.