Ranger
Chapter 65: Bitter
By Wanderer D
"And that's when Twilight said, "Well, it can't get any worse…", but then! Then Fluttershy runs in with all the animals in the garden shouting, "You're... going to LOVE ME!""
The group around the breakfast table broke down in laughter, and Luna shook her head, glancing at her sister in amusement.
Celestia shrugged. "I had to make the occasion less… repetitive, Luna."
"You sometimes do surprise me, sister," Luna confessed, drinking some coffee from her cup.
"It's hard to keep up with the tediousness of events like the Gala, Luna," Celestia confessed. "Sometimes, it needs some...refreshing."
Rarity rolled her eyes.
A sudden humm made everypony stop talking and look over to the table where the diary waited. Celestia had taken it upon herself to always have the book at hoof. Either Twilight or Sunset could call at any time and she didn't want to risk not being available to them if needed.
Trading glances with the others, Celestia levitated the magical artifact while the table was cleared of dishes and food.
A brief glimpse at the hoofwriting had Celestia smiling. "It's from Twilight."
"Whee!" Pinkie hop-hopped around the table. "Let's hear it out!"
"It has been some time since we heard from her directly," Applejack said, then chuckled a bit. "Y'all know what Ah mean."
"Yeah, yeah." Rainbow Dash grinned. "Maybe she'll have a new adventure to share!"
"Oh my," Fluttershy said. "I hope it isn't anything bad."
"Well dear, why don't we let the princess read the letter?" Rarity said, using a hoof to fix her hair before leaning forward, curiosity written all over her face.
Celestia nodded, and as her eyes scanned the first lines, her smile faded.
"Sister?"
Dear Princess Celestia,
A lot has happened today. It's very hard to even write this, but I can't just keep it inside. Tomorrow morning,
one of my friendsa former rookie on my class is about to be executed for treason.
"Oh… my…" Fluttershy whispered, raising her hooves to her mouth in horror. "But… why would they do that?!"
"Let the princess read, sugarcube…" Applejack said, a frown crossing her face. "Ah don't think anypony could do that without a really good reason."
"There's never a good enough reason fo—"
"Heed my words," Luna interrupted Fluttershy. "This world where Twilight and Sunset are now, is not our own. And there are plenty of reasons for treason to be punished most severely." She looked at the mares dead in the eye. "'Tis fortunate that you have not had to face moments where it has been deemed necessary. But not all are so lucky."
Celestia nodded and continued reading.
It's very hard to reconcile my feelings on this with who I was before. On the one hand, I feel bad for the loss of one more person. But on the other hand… after what he did… I can't feel bad for him.
When Chrysalis impersonated Cadance and the girls took her side, I felt betrayed. I know now that circumstances, like the way I was behaving, and Chrysalis' own machinations and acting like a misunderstood, stressed bride and her mind control powers were factors in that whole thing… it still hurt back then. It still hurts, sometimes.
The group exchanged guilty glances.
"I thought she was over it…" Rainbow Dash muttered, rubbing her hoof on her foreleg. "We all apologized."
"I think she forgave us," Rarity said, looking at the book sadly. "But whatever happened with this betrayal… it brought back bad memories. I don't think she's accusing us of anything, Rainbow Dash."
But I had no idea what true betrayal felt like. Looking back on those days, had I expressed my concerns differently, I think I could have gotten through to you all.
In any case, I mentioned to you my class before: Galahad being our "teacher", Monique, Ndlovu, Kevin, Alejandra, and... Michael. There were a few others at the beginning, but they quit early on. They're probably living in a settlement or something. Anyway, we went on our first mission yesterday.
This drew a gasp from everpony.
"B-but I thought Twilight was supposed to be a lab-rat?" Rainbow Dash stammered. "Why was she—"
"Oh my goodness… oh my goodness… Twilight…" Fluttershy's eyes were shimmering with tears. "How could you do this… going out to kill?"
Luna sighed, shaking her head and motioned for Celestia to continue. They of course knew that Twilight had gone out on a mission, thanks to Sunset's last missive, but they had hoped not to tell the girls for now. However, things had not gone well for Twilight, and they had a right to know, in the end.
Looking no less distressed than Twilight's friends, the princess continued reading.
I can imagine how you feel… you're probably horrified. You and everypony there, if the girls are with you... to think that Twilight Sparkle, "Princess of Friendship", would willingly go out there and… fight. And kill.
I did it.
"Oh Twilight," Pinkie whispered.
Celestia paused, closing her eyes. "That I could have spared you this. Both of you..."
"We had no say in this matter, sister," Luna said at length. "Neither Sunset nor Twilight inhabit a world where one can stay idle for long."
"What are you saying?" Rainbow Dash asked. "That Twilight was going to fight? Our egghead would have never done this on her own!"
"I… must agree," Rarity said, carefully looking at both princesses. "I hate to say it so brazenly, but it fits more what Sunset Shimmer might do, than our Twilight. Is is possible that she convinced her?"
"Please my little ponies," Celestia whispered. "Please do not speak of my Sunset like that."
The others looked at each other with a mixture of confusion and worry.
"Mayhaps I should continue reading," Luna said, clearing her throat. "If you would permit me, sister?"
Celestia barely nodded, but Luna gently levitated the book up to herself, placing it on the table and reading aloud.
I thought about how to explain this decision to all of you. I thought, maybe Rainbow Dash and Applejack would understand, just a little. I thought Rarity would begrudgingly nod in the end and respect it… I have the feeling that they three would in the end understand the why I would do this. And… Fluttershy, Pinkie… if you're reading this, I'm so, so sorry. You must be very disappointed in me.
"Never," Pinkie whispered, her hair deflated. She shook her head, wiping away tears. "Never disappointed, Twilight."
Fluttershy just looked away.
Some people tried to dissuade me from doing this. Dr. Tygan wanted me in the lab. Chrysalis ordered me to sit down and think thoroughly if I wanted to do this. She told me straight out that no-one would think less of me if I didn't go. That my work in the lab was just as important as any mission. Shen said it was a bad idea, but that it was up to me…
Sunset—she argued with me, but then I used her own words against her.
About loyalty.
About being there for her team when they needed her.
She knew what I was doing, but she also knew I was being honest. That these people were my friends, and that I owed it to them to be the best I could be on their side, not just… hiding. I think she hated feeling proud of me.
"Oh." Rarity looked down. "I-I'm sorry princess. I just thought…" She gulped, shaking her head.
Celestia's smile was sad. "Sunset has grown to care for Twilight, Rarity… I am glad that she attempted to stop my student. But Twilight can be very stubborn."
"I'm just glad Spike is in Ponyville taking care of the library," Fluttershy said bitterly. "And that he can't see what Twilight is turning into."
"Fluttershy!" Rainbow Dash gasped. "What's wrong with you?"
"Killing others should never be an option!"
"ENOUGH!" Luna's voice boomed across the room. "I will continue reading now."
My relationship with Sunset has become very interesting, but as much as I want to talk about that and all the things I have theorized about magic here… even a method so I don't use all of her diary's space… I can't ignore what's going on right now. I'm sorry if I'm ranting, it's just so hard to say this.
Things were going well at the beginning of the mission. We were going to rescue a VIP, try to avoid conflict as much as possible and evacuate as soon as we had the package. Point A to point B to point C. Couldn't be more simple.
But we were ambushed. A siren name Aria, who has been modified horribly by the Elders into a being they call The Assassin killed Galahad and Ndlovu, and then captured me. Another alien, of a type we hadn't seen before, shot this strange bomb that completely melted Monique and splashed Kevin's arm. Alejandra was in the pickup zone waiting for us to catch up so she was ordered to evacuate.
Luna ignored the horrified and sickened looks in Twilight's friends, glancing at Celestia. "It was my understanding that Starswirl had destroyed those beasts."
Celestia shook her head. "It appears that he didn't have the stomach for it... " She sighed. "I wonder how many lives more that decision will cost."
Luna frowned and continued reading.
I watched my friends die. I… I knew it was a possibility. Galahad never minced words on that. He never took out the horrible parts of it. We watched videos of entire teams being wiped out. We knew… we knew it was a possibility.
We've never been naive, princess… we have death and we've had war in Equestria… these concepts are things we understand—we see it in nature, we have predators and creatures that would kill us without hesitation in the Everfree or the wastelands.
I knew it—all of that—and yet, Princess, even when I knew it might happen and that one of us might die I didn't...I'm sorry... I have to force myself to write this.
If I keep it inside I feel like I will explode.
I was captured. I was transported to a nearby building and Aria and I talked about many things… at one point Kevin woke up… he couldn't take it. He snapped, he lost all control and he… he took his own life.
Pinkie was holding Fluttershy, who had broken down as the reading continued. "Twilight…" Pinkie whispered. "I'm so sorry."
"Ah can't even—" Applejack looked away, hurt and angry. "How can that be a decision anypony would make when there's a chance you'll live?"
"Mayhaps my sister and I should read this in private," Luna said. "It appears to be too—"
Rainbow Dash flew up above the princess, ready to say something.
"No." It was quiet, but they all heard it. Fluttershy sniffed, giving Pinkie a thankful look. "No. I want to hear it. I need to know."
Luna matched glances with the others, finding only the same conviction. "Very well then."
Sunset and I managed to communicate thanks to the Element.
There's something going on there with Sunset but.The Commander launched a rescue mission and Sunset and her team got me out, and took out Aria for now. She can't die. She'll return later, and she knows Sunset and I are from Equestria.
When we got home, I found out what had happened. We had been betrayed by that son of a bitch by Michael. I'm sorry princess, I… I don't want to swear but I'm so angry!
He passed the details of our mission to ADVENT.
That bastardHis betrayal was at the cost of the lives of my friends! He took good people away from me. People who he had eaten with, and laughed with ,and bled with, and trained with!How could he do this, Princess? How could he send us all to die just to save his own hide? How could anypony do this kind of thing and live with themselves?
The room was quiet.
"How… can you betray your friends?" Rainbow Dash asked, sitting down. "If you make a mistake… o-or an accident, or if you were tricked… I could understand but—intentionally sending them to die?"
Luna shook her head sadly. "May you never live to learn that, Rainbow Dash."
I want him dead. I want him dead more than I've wanted anything. And I know it's wrong! I know I shouldn't—I know that it won't bring them back!
And I know I won't feel better… and it won't stop my tears any more than writing all of this down has.
And it won't fix any of this or what I saw or how much I hate myself for living through it and them being gone.
I never thought I would say this of anyone, ever, princess.
But, by all that's sacred and magical and honest… I want him dead. And I can't stop thinking about how much I hate him!
Luna paused and sighed. "There is no more writing. That was the last of Twilight's message."
Fluttershy slowly stood up and walked out of the room.
"I'll uh," Rainbow Dash got up. "I'll check on her."
"Shucks," Applejack managed to mutter. "Ah never imagined…"
"Can you blame her?" Rarity asked, using a handkerchief to wipe her eyes. "She saw many of her friends die because one of them decided that whatever it is they wanted was more important than the lives of everyone they knew. That such a selfish beasts could exist…"
"Ah don't blame her," Applejack sighed.
"Twilight must be really, really super-duper sad right now…" Pinkie said. "She's always tried to see the best in everypony and now one of her friends betrayed her like that." She gulped. "I wish I could be there for her and bring her some cupcakes."
"Sister," Luna spoke up. "You should write to your student."
"I know, Luna," Celestia said. "I need to write to them both. If you don't mind, I'll do it on my own."
Luna and the three remaining ponies looked at each other, but one by one, they left Celestia alone.
o.0.o End Chapter 65 o.0.o
Hrm.
Fluttershy deals with carnivores. Predators. Even beyond that, many animal species kill for reasons other than food. Territory, for one. Not all are carnivorous.
For her to be against killing is... disingenuous, in my mind. Slaughter, sure. Murder, perhaps. But killing... I would assume that Pinkie would be the one outright against.
Then again, that is simply my interpretation of her character.
Well, shit.
At least she’s getting it in the open
8867025
I must agree with you Weaver.
It just sounds very OOC, but then again... different versions, different personalities.
The Princess/Avatar of Friendship, harshly betrayed and nearly killed by the actions of one she considered to be a friend.
That's a special kind of tragedy right there.
I expected that Twi's definitely going to be affected by Michael's actions for a loooong time, and quite honestly I'm not surprised she's acting exactly the way she is right now.
8867025
One could argue that Fluttershy probably sees quite the distinction between "hunting" and "Killing"
From a nature perspective. What need would Twilight ever have to go out far away from "home" with the intent to kill something?
It does make sense. And if the quality of this story holds up? She will realize the all too slim scope of that worldview applied to this situation after getting smacked over the head with all of THAT!
8867067
Except if you know anything about Animals, they will both hunt, and kill, without reason. As for a reason? Pick one: Defend her fellow trainees, protect this new world, gain favor with the higher ups so they can become allies, to help save someone (The VIP they picking up), To defend a town being attacked by the aliens and so on. Also remember, Twilight isn't in that world by choice, she is stuck there now, unable to leave.
8867025 8867059
Except that the Main 6 have been mostly the exact same personality wise. The only one that is OOC is Fluttershy, for her belief that all killing is wrong. Why doesn't she Hate herself then? She killed Nightmare Moon. Spike and Cadance killed Sombra. They trapped Discord in stone, unable to move or breath, but able to see and think the entire time, a fate worse than death.
Heck, the Mantacore that attacks them in the second episode was going to murder all of them, and wasn't out hunting, protecting itself, nor protecting cubs. It was mad and attacking everything. And that's something animals do often. Heck, she kills FISH every day to feed the otters under the bridge near her home! We SEE her feed them fish before, and most likely those are fish that were friends with her, that she caught and killed herself!
8867059 8867123 8867025
I was going to let the comments continue with it, but I guess I must clarify something, although Flutters will touch on it later with Rainbow Dash. My view of it is pretty much in line with 8867067: Flutters makes a very clear distinction between killing sapient beings and instinctual killing to survive. She can see animals kill to feed, or even give fish to other animals. The difference there is that the fish and the prey of those animals, is a natural cycle. To her, the idea that someone—especially one of her best friends—would knowingly arm themselves and go out with the intention to kill enemies is a completely different beast (pun intended).
Animals might kill without reason, but it is always instinct. They have limited learning capabilities, and their outlook is severely narrow to their daily survival. She's not heartless, but she understands well the natural cycle that animals operate on. But when it comes to it, we're not talking about Twilight going out there in desperate need for food and the only thing around to eat are aliens. We're talking about creatures that think, feel and as far as she knows could have families. It's not a natural cycle done on instinct, and thus, to her, it is horrifying to think Twilight would do such a thing.
It's not that she's narrow minded, or doesn't understand the situation Twilight is in, but her moral values and her outlook on life are in conflict with the relative necessity of Twilight being in combat through her own choice.
As far as Flutters can see, (and she is correct) Twilight could have just stayed away from the fighting, and secluded herself to helping from a distance, but instead chose to go in a mission where, chances were, she would have to kill someone. And that is too much for her to just bear, on top of the revelations of what Luna and Celestia read.
8867067
Even then, there are many critters who will kill to defend themselves. A scorpion will sting regardless of whether he is facing predator or prey, in or outside their territory, if it feels threatened.
But as you said, this will probably be a wake up call for Fluttershy.
Pinkie... I've never wanted to hug you more.
...Shy, go home. Go home and pretend you don't feed fish to ferrets with a smile, in a world where practically everything is nearly sapient. Pretend no changelings died when they were thrown from Canterlot (weren't any indoors and not near windows?). Pretend Sombra didn't violently explode. Good luck.
Michael... fuck you, Michael. Die.
This was powerful, and even more so than I anticipated when I saw where it started. Well done.
8867152
I do see your point, but maybe in time Shy will understand.
War tends to change people... Twilight is just another victim in a long list and more victims will surely come.... Shy is lucky she hasn't known war
8867233
Maybe Flutters would benefit from a conversation with this universe's Fluttershy... just a thought
8867152
Ok, I can understand that line of thinking. What I hate, is that it's a very flawed and childish way of think. It's a Pinkie Pie way of thinking. Not a Fluttershy way of thinking. As I'm sure Fluttershy would also know about Nature, there is also wanting to Defend the Pact and Family. Twilight clearly states she trained with her new humans friends, and it wouldn't be right for them to fight and not go along to protect them, even if it meant killing an Evil and Invading race that has already done many cruel and horrible things. Which, actually, IS an Instinctual thing! She is helping defend the Human's Territory, She is Protecting Innocent Lives. She is NOT like the Exalt or Aliens that are all about mindlessly slaughtering.
It also makes her, again, OOC even if she followed that line of thinking. As I pointed out, with Fluttershy's point of view, why doesn't she hate Celestia or Luna? Or the Royal Guards? Or herself for what she did with Nightmare Moon?
Nightmare Moon might have been a part of Luna, depending on how your lore of it goes, but She was still a different entity, with it's own motives, emotions, and rationalizations. And the Main 6 killed her and replaced her with a new person.
For Fluttershy to have that mindset, and believing it, she would hate a lot of ponies and that hate would show more often, which just doesn't match up with Canon. She isn't a very hateful pony.
8867263 I think you have a bit of an extreme point of view of Fluttershy, and honestly projecting something that was never there: hate. She was angry. Frustrated. Scared. Worried. But at no point was she hateful.
In regards to the other things, when they faced Nightmare Moon, they didn't go at her with the intent of destroying her. They wanted to stop her, and the Elements of Harmony would at worst exile her again, as far as Fluttershy knew. When they were done, she didn't see a dead body, but a healed being that was given a second chance.
She has no reason to hate anyone, nor is she hating Twilight at all, but Fluttershy always tries a gentler approach. She's disappointed and angry that Twilight would go out to kill. It's very different from hating herself or everyone else for it. She never said she hated Sunset or any of the XCOM soldiers mentioned before because they had to kill, and she stayed behind to listen to why Twilight was doing what she was doing. She's neither being hypocritical nor hateful. A bit judgmental, given the circumstances, yes, but at no point did she say "I hate 'X'!".
Why would she hate Celestia and the others? In her experience, they've never killed anyone, and have only used their magic to incapacitate or stop. Even the worst thing that happens is someone getting turned to stone, which has never been stated to canonically trap them aware of their surroundings. Neither them not NMM. In fact, canonically, NMM was just Luna's evil taking control of her emotions. Her being a different being or even being really destroyed is fanon.
8867152
*Inhales slowly*
Yeah see, this... this actually isn't true. Putting aside predation or territory control or even dominance struggles, there are plenty of cases of animals killing abusers (human or otherwise), or those that annoy them, and even a few rare 'malicious' animals that kill for fun. It's not as bad as open warfare that humans do, and I suppose it could be argued that the Magical Land Of Equestria could be immune to these for the same reasons that ponies are slightly more naive than humans, but... any animal that can learn to love can also learn to hate. And not too few animals have surprising mental capacity.
I am just surprised to encounter a Fluttershy that is somehow unaware of this in a version of Equestria where the capacity for killing is known to some degree.
8867307 Think of her as a pacifist. It's not that she's unable to fathom it, it's just that she believes in the alternative.
I'm not disagreeing, but these thoughts are best framed in the context of replies to your comments.
8867152
When threatened with subjugation and likely extinction, are the humans (or ponies) not dragged into the laws of that "natural cycle"? Is someone going to explain this to Fluttershy or will she realize it herself? It's kill or be killed for XCOM, and helping them indirectly will still put blood on their hooves.
8867329
Pacifists are the first to die when faced with true evil.
The mane 5 are Friends Twilight can Count on. And i can understand that is too much for fluttershy. And Twilight being a Pacifist makes Sense, given the peaceful Nature of equestria
8867468
I'd Comment on you Random Capitalization of words, but I do it too!
8867447
I have to argue that pacifists statement. Sometimes it’s the people who stood watch protecting those pacifists who died first.
War is not something that will go away. Fluttershy and even many people today look at conflict as something that can be avoided but the truth of the matter is that when someone hates your very existence, they won’t stop until one side is dead. Sometimes, as much as people argue otherwise, you either defend yourself or you die. That’s why we have the saying “all that is needed for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.”
I do like how Luna is the coolest in all of this. Her words also imply she’s seen all of this before. That as wonderful as Equestria is right now, it wasn’t always so nice. I also find Celestia’s reaction to the mention of the Sirens telling. It means Starswirl never mentioned what happened to the Sirens letting everyone believe they were dead. In this case Celestia is for their destruction, apparently.
someone needs to point out the truth to fluttershy about how the world works, this looks like a job for discord really, i imagine for all he's done in the past, he probably abhors war and death, death is the greatest form of absolute order, it's basically discords antithesis. so perhaps him explaining things too her might help her to see how the world really works.
8867152
I really hope Fluttershy doesn't attempt to use that idea as a dodge that Twilight should have taken. Twilight is not oblivious to how her knowledge is to be used. Given that she knows full well what's going on, developing weapons isn't much different than pulling the trigger herself. This isn't some 'just in case, preventative measure' weapons R&D... This is 'Okay, I redesigned your plasma rifle using magic, so it's 20% deadlier. You'll definitely kill more aliens than in the last mission! Just not this alien *points to self, both laugh* ...Seriously, stay safe out there, armor improvements will be ready for the next mission, just working out the last few bugs in the interface.'
I don't doubt Shy would argue Twilight could contribute to medical advancements. Actually I wouldn't be surprised to find Twilight doing that at some point. But she also fought Tirek. And the only reason she didn't vaporize him was because he was just as strong as she was at that point. It sure as hell wasn't any effort to spare him. And then they all blasted him with... whatever the hell that upgraded Rainbow Power thing was. They'd never used it before, so how could they possibly know what was going to happen? Never mind that eternally imprisoning someone in a cage in Tartarus might fall under 'fate worse than death'...
Empathy is a part of Kindness, possibly the biggest part. She failed that during the Canterlot invasion, having learned nothing from Lesson Zero. She didn't try to see Twilight's side, and as a friend she should have, even if Twilight's concerns seems silly, or wrong. I bring it up because Twilight did... and because I see it as a betrayal, same as she did. And now Shy is doing the same thing. Rather than seeing what her friend is going through, she just angrily judges based on her own views.
Funny thing is, despite my take on all that, I have no problem with this. Yeah, it's a disappointing moment that she couldn't see past her sheltered outlook (comparatively speaking...) the way the others managed to. But she's not perfect, and if anyone was going to have real trouble accepting this, it'd be her.
What the hay, Fluttershy! I never took her for a judgmental type, at least not out-loud.
8867307
And then there's frickin' dolphins, which kill porpoises for kicks and giggles. "Mere animals" are capable of doing all sorts of terrible stuff, depending on their intelligence level, so we humans hardly have a monopoly on it. Heck, some tribes of chimps have even managed to have wars against each other.
Now, I wouldn't seriously ascribe malevolence to a dumb mosquito, but Equestria's wildlife seems to be a bit more intelligent on average. And Fluttershy knows Angel.
Careful Twilight, you're becoming more Human every day. Soon enough you, like Sunset, may not be able to return to Equestria (though for different reasons).
Actually, that's an interesting idea. What if demon Shimmer and Midnight Sparkle arose for a short-lived hurrah? Fluttershy's indiscretion could pale in comparison...
Keep going! ;)
8867678
Pfft! Okay, so not necessarily first, but dead is dead. And anyway, I was saying that's the case in direct confrontation, not when someone else gets to intervene. The rest of your comment does not conflict with my own and even repeats my own sentiment.
I got the same impressions of Luna and Celestia.
8867695
Exactly! Also, every person a medic makes fit for active duty is another person that can get back to killing people. It's pretty much impossible to be truly neutral when war comes around.
So... betting poll to how he'll be executed?
Firing Squad?
Hanging?
Electrocution?
Dropped from loading hatch?
Psychic/Magic death?
Suggestions?
Fluttershy this is war. And war, war never changes.
It will be interresting to see the "fallout" of all this.
See what i did there?
8867752
Yeah, it does not matter how indirect the contribution, you are still helping end the lives of enemy combatants.
Here's hoping that they find a different way to deal with Tirek, since Fluttershy's attitude will keep that rainbow power from activating unless Rainbow is able to get through that true pacifist bullshit.
8867672
I'd more say non-native english speaker and force of habbit in capitalisation for his native language. (tends to capitalize nouns, so i guess german?)
So yeah, English, the language of the internet and the lazy. (Capitalization is too much work) Coincidence? You decide!
On topic:
I can see Flutters react that way. Killing for survival in part of the natural cycle, but going out and killing someone far away that didn't directly threatens you and isn't food? The closest line you could draw is to territorial disputes, but even then XCOM isn't claiming the city and never indended to (regarding that attack).
8867766
Uhhhmmm... just to get all options out there:
Reaper buffet
8867766
Drop the bastard into a Lava Lake.
Given Fluttershy's extreme pacifism attitude, if someone actually declared war on Equestria or tried to murder her, would she simply stand there and allow it to happen?
I mean, that's something I don't quite get about pacifism. Isn't it hypocritical to refuse to fight at all, then stand by and let other people die for you, all the while whining about how they shouldn't? And isn't it just as hypocritical for her to focus more on TWILIGHT setting out to kill and not so much on how everyone else in XCOM has no choice but to do so since it's war?
8867766
Death by snu...no, too good for him.
Death by exsanguination? Feed him to Sunset's viper harem?
And hey, what does FLUTTERSHY think they should do to punish him for his treason? Put him in jail? Give him a strong reprimand and make him promise he wouldn't do it again, like they did with Discord and Starlight? Take away dessert privileges for a week?
8867990
The problem is they didn't go out to kill, they went out to rescue someone and they were trying to do it without being seen. The aliens set up the ambush, the aliens attacked, XCOM merely defended themselves.
This is a defensive war against genocidal mad scientists, there is no moral high ground in not fighting.
8867851
Whoops, I said Tirek in past tense... mixing up my timeline a smidge. Still, you're right, and the point remains since that's the same Fluttershy we have here, just not quite to that point yet. Now, question becomes... does she go all in with that fight alongside the rest of them because she has faith in the source of that power, she's going along with her friends, swept up in the moment, or does she actually not mind the possibility of killing Tirek after all he'd done?
Any of those answers are plausible but, thinking about Shy, the last is the least. Even so, she's in shock here. She didn't handle this as well as the rest of them, because she has a lot of respect for life. Not that the rest don't, but in her it's overpowering her other considerations here. That doesn't automatically make her a pacifist... nor is that a dirty word, by the by, but it clearly made it difficult for her to accept what she heard there.
This was bound to happen and was necessary for Twilight to start a grievance and come forward.
I knew the news would hard to hear and some of her friends will take it harder.
8867766
I'd go with good old decapitation.
it
Burn him.
8868258
There is a vast gulf between a pacifist and a true pacifist.
The pacifist can eventually be pushed far enough that they fight, because the pacifist understands that peace requires strength due to the unscrupulous peoples of the world and will take up arms if pushed beyond a point.
The true pacifist will allow themselves to be brutalized and watch their friends and loved ones killed before finally being killed as well and still refuse to fight.
Pacifism is worthy of respect because it is still willing to take a stand but will try to find a way to bring peace at every opportunity.
True pacifism is not because it is willing to let everything it values burn rather than having the strength to stand strong without compromising itself.
As far as Fluttershy...she is the naturalist of the group. She should understand and accept death and predator/prey dynamics and just how cruel and bloody nature can be. And that the way of kindness requires that blood occasionally be spilled.
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You're throwing an awful lot of fake philosophy into Fluttershy's head based on one reaction here... It'd be one thing if she went on a massive rant decrying Twilight's actions, or trying to turn the others against her. She got angry and left. That's about it. It was disappointing, but hardly indicative of a mindset of 'let everything burn because I won't do anything to stop it'.
That's... actually not a thing. 'True pacifist' is just an ending in Undertale... as in, that term is not something that exists as a philosophical concept in any variation from pacifist. I took philosophy at Purdue (glorious waste of tuition money and credit hours, by the by, highly recommended). Whether you're talking about Mohandas Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., or even just any doctor who takes the Hippocratic Oath seriously, it's along the same lines. Achieve your goals through nonviolent means whenever possible: primum non nocere. First, do no harm. That obviously doesn't include healing soldiers. Yes, they go back to fight but that's on them. You can't make their decisions for them any more than you could let them die on the table to stop them from more violence. You don't become responsible for everything. There's a lot to be said for nonviolence, even if it obviously can't be the solution to the alien invaders by itself. Still, it offers creative solutions that are consistently landing allies and opening new doors. What if Sunset had just opened fire on the Thin Man before meeting Annette? Balance is needed.
That said, what you might be thinking of is someone who hides behind pacifism as a reason to run away. It's not that they have principles about violence really; they're simply afraid to fight. Can't say I blame them; it is scary, but there are things that scare me more. Their values are 'save myself'... and that's a sad life to contemplate. Meanwhile, a pacifist will stand tall even unarmed against a tank, and the whole world will feel it. Now... from what we've seen of Fluttershy over the years, I don't think that 'save myself, let everything else burn' applies to her. She was scared, to comedic levels, of dragons... until one large enough to eat her in one bite threatened her friends. As annoyed as I am with her, I think she'll come around, at least so far as accepting that this was a choice a friend had to make, because it was the right choice in that time and that place.
Thanks for that... I don't agree with what you're saying but I respect it, and it got me really thinking about this.
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That idea of a distinction has existed long before Undertale was a vague idea in Mr Fox's mind. It's something that comes up among tabletop gaming groups as a way to try to differentiate between types of pacifists. I have never taken a philosophy class. I didn't have the money to waste on a class like that.
I very strongly disagree with pacifism on general principle, though, and that colors my reaction to Fluttershy's response to Twilight's letter. In my experience, pacifism only invites further attacks until you put your foot down and decimate those attacking you.
Wow, Fluttershy.
It's a little late to stop reading it now, Luna.
Yikes. This is sad. I can cope fine with Sunset and Twilight going through the portal and slowly acclimatising to life in the war of XCOM. I can cope with seeing a load of human characters who by rights should have just enjoyed graduating high school dragged into that war.
But it's very harsh to take the rawest, cruelest bits of the experience of that war, and share them with... ponies back in the relative utopia that Equestria is. There's not enough nuance in the few words Twilight can write for her friends to understand properly. This was always going to be really unpleasant for AJ, Pinkie and friends. It's sortof a pity that Celestia didn't just read it all to herself before sharing it with anyone else.
Well ... that got dark ... is it weird that reading about people's (or ponies') reactions to tat kinda thing always hits me harder than the thing itself?
not technically wrong, but I find it likely that Celestia would simply us the word 'tedium'
that shouldn't be there ...
named
that space should be after the comma, not before it ...
Makes your heart pang with hurt whenever a pony or any creature that’s extremely empathetic to give their reaction on something like this
This was painful to read.
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That is the precisely the draw of mlp fanfiction to me.
The death of innocence, and the growth from its ashes. The potential is beautiful and terrible.
There's a reason I stopped watching mlp after season 3, but have continued with the community nonstop since its inception. For me, to much was fleshed out, too many questions answered and future possibilities ended before they could begin. It's also why the older fic's tend to be more overarching and epic in scope. I love it.
Additionally, the ideas and fan cannon developed by the community is almost always more interesting. You gotta have darkness, for light to be more than a state of being afterall.
Her friends are taking this far better than I imagined, minus Fluttershy. I wanted to lay into her at one point for what she said.
Twilight has it wrong from the beginning. He had Advent items on him. He was a spy from the start with a clear target - Use X-Com!
He never really betrayed them since his target was to use them. He just underestimated / forget it in between and when it come to it, followed trough with everything...
Very hypocritical of Fluttershy, beyond eat or be eaten, there is always context... self defense when someone tries to kill you, with the attacker ending up dead to protect ones own or someone else life.
Michael did if for himself and noone else, it's practical, but not morally acceptable.
If he did it for family at least.
But one can argue he wanted to build a family and give them a 'safe and stable environment'.
Unfortunately there is always a aftermath, time for the last consequences to start, though no matter what even after that, there is always a 'after'.