This story is a sequel to Words of Advice from the many worlds of Twilight
Princess Luna had heard of Twilight's experiences in meeting other versions of her in various dimensions, but one of those experiences has utterly broken her older sister to the point that she shuts herself out from the world. Determined to help her sister, Luna goes to Celestia to learn what has happened. Princess Celestia, in turn, tells Luna of a world where another version of her brought nothing but death and suffering to not just their own people, but to so many others in an attempt to convert an entire world.
*A sequel to a chapter in Joe Toon's story Words of Advice from the many worlds of Twilight which I recommend reading. This is canon with the NegotationsVerse btw.*
You're Faithful Student, Twilight Sparkle.
I'm pretty sure this should be "Your".
11071756
Fixed
Good story.
This is a good follow up story!
Nice story. It does capture Celestia's fears well.
But I do think she is overreacting a bit, because ultimately these two Celestia's are just too different in the end. Ultimately it would have been far more terrifying for her if she could imagine doing these kinds of things herself.
It's a bit contradictory if she says it could've been her, and then immediately her next line is about how she can't imagine how she would ever do the same things.
Don't get me wrong, it's just a little nitpick of mine. I still enjoyed it.
Nice, and heartwarming. Seems like what close to canon Celestia's reaction would be the Negotiations-Verse.
Now... I wonder how she would react to seeing Celestia from Friendship is Optimal?
I daresay, even worse. If she's strong enough, she would probably try to fight her. Or get allies (from other universes) to take her on.
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While she can't imagine doing those things herself, there's probably a lot of things in common between the two Celestias that the good Celestia feels like she is (or was at some point in the past) milimeters away from becoming the tyrant. It's probably similar to the feeling you get when you discover that you very narrowly avoided a disaster.
Maybe if the Sun was dying on this Equestria, this Celestia would also have tried to save at least some ponies and become the tyrant (instead of just doing nothing and waiting for everyone to die). Maybe the dying Sun and Sunset's death were the only two differences between this Celestia and the other one...
Well... shit. Now I want a sequel where this Celestia finds Negotiansverse Twilight and gives her a big freaking hug.
I'm not familiar with "NegotationsVerse" but it definitely sounds like some flavor of ACB, Anti Conversion Bureau.
I just thought I'd remind everyone that there was, in fact, a CB before there was an ACB, and somewhere out there should be a universe where ponies took action on heroic scale to save what they could of human civilization from a cosmic natural disaster.
11072222
Yeah its an Anti-Conversion universe I created from multiple stories
Thanks for this chapter mate. But you still owe me a tissue box.
11071994
Ooh, that's a great idea!
Damn so you mean the star versus the forces of evil finale?
Finally! Canon Celestia's reaction to TCB Celestia! Celestia would never do such a crazy ass thing. TCB is indeed a horrible genre.
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I don't see even then, canon Celestia doing that. She would probably use diplomacy and enter an alliance with humanity. Rather than kill them. She and her ponies could use their magic to help humanity. Cure diseases. Increase human lifespan. Earth ponies help them get better crop yields. Cleaner energy. Human x pony romance, and stuff.
If somehow she is forced to declare war if she had no other choice. (let's say she is stronger than humanity) But once the dust settles, and humanity is on its knees begging for peace. She would show mercy. I think it would be inconceivable for canon Celestia (or canon-like) to wipe out an entire species. After that, she would try to repair relations with humanity.
I don't think Celestia would wipe out humanity down to the last child. She would pull back her forces, once she knows humanity is clearly defeated. And she would pursue peace.
11072630
Sane Celestia probably would do as you say.
However. the other Celestia went through (as far as we know) some awful stuff
The impending death of the sun hanging over her head for centuries. Celestia (and probably very few trusted mages) were doing research on how to repair the sun with no results. Running out of time, Celestia decided to teleport everyone to some other dimension.
That has its own problems - finding a suitable dimension and figuring out how to teleport the entire planet there. Not wishing to cause mass panic, this has to be kept completely secret, so not many ponies can be trusted to do the research. Even ponies like Twilight had to be deceived about the true purpose of the research - Celestia couldn't just say "dedicate everything for this - the Sun is about to die", which means the research progressed slower, probably too slow.
At some point, Celestia made a big decision - abandon all the other races and teleport only ponies, because it was not possible to save everyone. Still, the decision probably undid some screws in her head.
People try to rationalize their decisions. Maybe thinking that all those innocent creatures are going to die because Celestia could not figure out how to save everyone was too much and it morphed into a rationalization of "only ponies are worthy of saving".
Not finding a suitable uninhabited dimension, Celestia finds an inhabited one, for some reason she takes the pony she loves as her daughter, Sunset, giver her a red shirt and sends her to meet the locals, who kill and eat her while Celestia gets to watch ans is unable to do anything.
People are more inclined to blame others than themselves. Maybe the guilt of sending Sunset instead of some redshirt on a first contact mission (which was a really stupid idea) was also too much to bear, so Celestia started to blame the humans. Combine that with the previous damage and now the screws are really loose.
So, while Celestia in this fic cannot imagine doing this at her current state of mind, she probably recognizes that since she's so similar to the other Celestia, there would be circumstances under which she would do it.
Imagine someone came from another dimension and said that the "you" of that dimension was almost exactly like the real you (same hobbies, same friends) and then in 2018 or whatever, decided to run for office and became Adolf Hitler v2. Tat would probably make you think...
This was a great read, I'm happy to see how regular Celestia reacted to the atrocities that NegotationsVerse Celestia caused. Still the lovable sunbutt we all know
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I believe the main difference between both Celestias is their ego.
In this verse, both she and Luna shared the secret of Sun and Moon to make sure the world would continue even without them. Xenolestia didn´t, because she refused to trust anyone else.
Xenolestia kept most secrets to herself and only listened to her own counsel. And after centuries surrounded by subjects telling her how wonderful, infalible and perfect their goddess was, Tia ended believing her own hype.
Remember, the main reason Xenolestia hated humanity and their technology was not because their violent History , or even the death of Sunset Shimmer. It´s because she couldn´t accept humans had archieved so much in comparation with Equestria that even her faithful subjects had started absorbing their ideas rather than the ones provided by their beloved ruler. Tia´s ego couldn´t handle the possibility of her little ponies outgrowing her.
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Ooooh, kinda late for that, buddy. See, Negotiations-verse Twilight is... pretty much dead at this point. Canon!Twi found her right at her deathbed. She writes the letter, hands it to Canon!Twi, and then dies shortly afterwards. It's in "Rest", if you're wondering, also by Rated Ponystar.
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1) Sunken cost fallacy is a big, big motivator. Negotiations-verse Celestia was kind of trying to justify her ever-growing list of sacrifices and unholy deeds. First, she couldn't trust the other sapient races of Equus with the knowledge about the Sun's imminent death, because they might panic and invade Equestria for the Elements of Harmony to save themselves. She spent so long trying to research a solution on her lonesome that she only found one solution; teleport a very limited territory, at which point the other races would have absolutely invaded Equestria to save themselves. Then she tried converting humanity to protect the snowglobe in which she trapped Equestrian society in, because if she had teleported to a new world then let her ponies get subverted by corrupt ways, it would have been all for naught, no? And then the Humans refuse conversion, and her own ponies start questioning her decisions, so to protect her ponies she wages war on the humans and tries to silence oppositon.
Basically, all throughout the time from the discovery of Equus' sun's mortality to the end of the Conversion War was Celestia making several bad decisions at the start and then her increasing desperation to avoid paying the piper until it all caught up to her with the invasion of Equestria, culminating in the Siege of Canterlot and the final humiliating surrender. She kept throwing good money and resources after bad just to assure herself she didn't screw things up from day one.
2) Canon!Celestia wouldn't be offering an extinction choice if she was forced to declare war. That's what made the humans keep going no matter how bad it was. It was literally the Axis trying to exterminate everyone between Warsaw and the Urals, and then not expecting the people you're trying to wipe out to fight back and fight back hard. Also, I'd like to believe Canon!Celestia at least do her homework regarding another species. Negotiations-verse Celestia was basically a lazy, stupid student, cherry-picking what she wanted out of a course, make up the blanks in her knowledge, and then act surprised and blame everyone else when the teacher inevitably gives her an "F". She may have watched humanity and their wars, but she clearly didn't understand a thing about them.
Plus, never assume humanity couldn't just turn the tables. Admittedly, it took the help of the Resistance to provide the Thalmann Reactor project with the necessary help, but I doubt the humans would have simply submitted, even if they were in the wrong. Celestia would have to pursue a war with humanity to its bitter end, or risk a future wave of resenters and revanchists. Basically, the only winning move is not to play, and Celestia would need to be a master diplomat to talk humanity into seeing reason. And thank Faust she is a master diplomat.
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Basically this. "There but for the grace of Harmony I go". It's not "why did she do this and taint my opinion of myself", more "Are there conditions under which I would be the one doing all this horrible stuff?"
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So, in short, Xenolestia was envious (a deadly sin among others she committed) of humanity? Wow. She really hasn't grown up.
*looks at Generation 5*
About that...
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Nothing Celestia did was justified. If the humans struggled so much against the barrier without the thalman gens, why would the other species of Equis fare better in an invasion? And them being a far less technologically advanced and numerous opponents?
Answer: they wouldn't.
Celestia took her frustration and anger out on a species that she saw didn't deserve what they had, a home. She was bigoted, made no attempt at peaceful coexistence and sought to maintain power and absolute rule and cultural control to the bitter end. She's no different than the many dictators of our past and present.
Make humans see reason? What reason, it's their planet, not the equestrians. This was all about taking it out on humans, bar none.
11073468
Gen 5 is garbage. Typical woke revisionist non sense that's polluted every fandom and good entertainment. Star trek was first, then Star Wars, then mlp....now Netflix will be making a TMNT series on how angsty the teen turtles are.....
11074491
You can't stop it sadly
This definitely isn't canon Celestia, since this one is in a universe a bit darker from the show, alcohol, swearing, etc.
Though it is a realistic Celestia which I admire.
👍👍👍 I know it wouldn't add much, but I kinda want to write a conversation between the two Celestia's. Feel like it would be interesting in a few ways.
11073144
Late reply but this is entirely accurate. It's incredibly hard to see Canon!Celestia doing an actual genocide or having so much fear and contempt for Equestria's other races that she'd let them die without even telling them. As if somehow the sun and moon only rose and fell for the sake of Ponies alone and she had no duty towards them otherwise. I don't really think she was evil the whole time, but she was by nowhere near as moral, empathetic, or intelligent as her canon counterpart and never would have had qualms about doing something like this. Whether she was just born screwed in the head or differences in her childhood in that universe shaped her into what she became I have no idea, but it's clear she had been an egotistical sociopath during the majority of her reign even if she wasn't aware of it.
Under the same planet ending desperation and stubborness on her part, I could see Canon!Celestia attempt to recreate what she did in Equestria when it was still a war-torn hellhole, by aiming to remake earth's culture and rule as an (in her mind) benevolent monarch. But she would never resort to brainwashing or the barrier. She'd chalk it up due to a lack of guidance rather than inherent flaws in the species as ponies were in almost exactly the same place once. She'd also be smart enough to understand that she could get quite a few humans on her side just by showing them how nice the Equestrian way of life was instead of giving them a convert or die ultimatum.
While I doubt canon Princess ‘everybody’s mother/quirky aunt’ Celestia would react this strongly to learning about Bureaualestia, she probably would want to go have a little drinkie in private for a bit.
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It wouldn't have the swearing and alcohol yeah, but Tia would definitely lose her shit/have a mental breakdown.
Stupid
Its just absolutely horrible.😰
11071762
Ok.
Is that the canon reason for everything?
I"ve now seen it 3 times.
11071762
OOOOOOOOHH!!!!!!😬
https://images.app.goo.gl/Uh9ZSZJvHFdBUMk46
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There is more than what meets the eye.
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11144494
Now THAT is something I'd LOVE to see!
It would also be TOTALLY awesome to see how the other characters would react to hearing about or meeting their Negotiationsverse counterparts and no doubt being horrified at the actions of that Celestia and many of their other selves. Foe example, Cadence and Shining would probably be horrified at Negotiation Cadence's destruction of holy cities and that their daughter and Crystal Ponies are dead in that universe because of their actions; AJ and Rainbow would be disgusted at how racist and bigoted their counterparts are, as well as how far they would be willing to go or forego to have Equestria win (I even imagine they would get into brawls with them if they met in person and the two mad madponies would consider themselves the TRUE AJ and RD), Fluttershy and Discord would be proud of their other selves for staying true to their morals and defecting as they did, etc.
Is this and words-of-advice-from-the-many-worlds-of-twilight cannon to the Negotiations verse?
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Yes
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Thanks for answering
11103633
Indeed. While we can feel sad it ended, we should then feel glad it happened while we were there to witness it.
11074491
I thought everything went downhill with G4 MLP since Lauren Faust left it in Hasbro's hands.