While I haven't watched much of the later seasons, a question I've considered is how to fix Neighsay. He's written as a stereotypical racist, but I think he could have added a more cynical perspective on Twilight's idea about the school of friendship. Perhaps he could represent a group of ponies who hesitate to let in new races? What do you all think?

7677730
Depends on how you want to "fix him". Do you want him to be more villianous or more noble? Because honestly, he was right about a lot of things already.

Neighsay: Irresponsible teachers, students skipping class, endangering ponies! Your school is a disaster. Perhaps if you had had higher standards for who was admitted, this could have been avoided.

Most of these things became reoccurring issues for the rest of the season.

Also keep in mind that he delivers this tirade right after Ocellus accidentally knocks over a building and nearly crushed several students. He had every reason to be ticked.

1. Hair ahould be in a loose ponytail. 🤤🥵

2. Of course, shipped with Tempest in the show. 😍

3. Should have ended up meeting Tempest after a long time. 😘

4. Wear a tuxedo-like attire instead of a robe.😊

5. Actually became friends with the Student 6 after meeting them.

7677734
I get that he was right in a lot of cases. By fix, I meant portraying him a bit more heroically. For example, he could still oppose the school of friendship idea, but more so out of skepticism of the school working and not blatant racism.

7677730
I think one way it could be worked out better is by dialling down his prejudices. The show relentlessly shoved his xenophobia in our faces in an effort to invalidate his other claims (the screenwriting equivalent of reductio ad hitlerum). As 7677734 points out, Neighsay's criticisms were completely valid.

My alternate suggestion is for him to be skeptical of the concept of the School of Friendship, and when the problems occur this would give him an excellent opportunity to assist Twilight in getting it working. This was already kinda there in School Daze; temporary closures of schools in order to bring them up to standard is standard policy in my country. Of course, this would be dependent on Twilight working with the authorities and not deciding to retroactively rewrite education policy.

Don’t fix Neighsay. Fix the school. By removing it from the plot.

I think one of the proper ways to fix Neighsay's characterization would really have to involve properly acknowledging what happened in the Movie having happened. Instead of some dumbass plot about Twilight having to start up this School of Friendship and having to go through and even around the EEA to get it finalized, the main conflict would center around Twilight having to rebuild the publics' trust in her again. Neighsay in this version of Season 8 would serve as the public speaker for The House of Nobles within Canterlot who hold a semblance of power to govern Equestria in the absence of Celestia and Luna. Neighsay had issued a Vote of No Confidence for Twilight Sparkle in order to have her removed from executive power on the grounds of incompetence and refusal to take her position and responsibilities as a Princess of Equestria seriously: citing what is now unfolding as both The Second Battle of Canterlot and The Three-Days' Invasion where Twilight and her friends had essentially left Equestria for dead as the final straw.

I would imagine that not only would Twilight and Spike be present for this, but also all of the Mane Six as well as they hear Neighsay speak to the House of Nobles about the Vote of No-Confidence; where the reality of what happened in the Movie really sinks in for the five of them and the reality of what happened back home while the five didn't try taking their homeland being invaded and their friends and family being enslaved with enough gravitas. By the time that the House of Nobles finish their voting; only ¹/₅^th of the Noble Families are on Twilights' side. Twilight wonders exactly why Neighsay is behaving so darkly, in the past he was always rational and kindhearted. Rainbow Dash feels the need to confront Neighsay about this whole mess in order to try and make him apologize to Twilight for making her feel bad, only to have reality slap them back in the face again with Neighsays' final statement in the room before he left:

"Before The Festival of Friendship I was a Father and a Grandfather. After The Storm King flew into Tall Tale and finished burning the city to the ground: I became neither..."

This would instead of making Neighsay out to be this racist jerk like we got from Hasbro, into another victim of Twilights' inaction that had lost everything that he once cared about.

7677737
Honestly, I don't know what making him more heroic would serve in that context. I suppose he could have been a supporting character.

Still we already had so many that were underutilized to begin with, so it's hard to imagine the writers handling another one well.

Plus as bad as Neighsay is, he actually cares for the students overall well being.

Even when he's being a jerk to the Student Six, he just wants them removed from the school, nothing more.

Compare that to Discord, who outright threatened to harm students unless he was given control over the school (A Matter of Principals).

Or Rainbow Dash and Applejack, who nearly got their class drowned over a award (Non-Compete Clause).

Or even Starlight and Twilight, who ignored both incidents, and didn't look into or punish the individuals involved.

That being said, if you really wanted to make him a hero, make his racism less overt, or at least explain it.

Show how much Equestria has suffered in the past at the hooves of invaders, and show why mistrust of other species is so wide spread.

Frankly, I think the show made a decent case for that all on it's own, but if rehashing the details helps, then there's no reason not to.

Alternatively, you could have removed his racist tendencies altogether. He could have instead lead a conflict between traditional methods of teaching vs modern methods.

Still, it would have required a much more competent Twilight than what we got in Season 8 to make me care about that conflict.

Someone in Derpibooru just said:

7677745
I disagree with #3.

7677745
I would get rid of number 1 & 3.

7677730
Just generally ease up on the 'racist' portrayal, or at least help to put it in context.

Let's consider the five races who sent students to the school - griffons (whose civilization is shown to live in squalor and are treated as greedy and selfish), yaks (who were treated as aggressive and willing to go to war with Equestria over very little), changelings (who up until recently had been an enemy of Equestria, with their former ruler still at large), dragons (whose government is one step above anarchy), and hippogriffs (who'd essentially stuck their heads in the sand when the Storm King invaded and decided he was someone else's problem). All of this was established in series, and couple that with the fact that Equestria had recently been invaded, Neighsay's xenophobia is suddenly a lot more legitimate.

I'm not saying he was in the right, just that his viewpoint isn't too hard to grasp.

7677745
#3 is just as stupid as "Grogar is Discord".

7677760
7677761
7677801

yay discrimination, jk 😂

7677799

dragons (whose government is one step above anarchy),

Not to mention they are habitual raiders, who threatened Equestrian citizens on a number of occasions.

None of these species really inspires trust. I can't really think of a foreign group in MLP that did, now that I think about it.

7677743

When said "heroic", I meant toning down his racism and at least showing that he had a point. I think we both agree in some cases.

7677799
They didn't have to put him in the right, but they at least could have said he had a reason to be the way he is. The problem, aside from how over the top he acts, is how he's put in the wrong because of his objections to the school. Also, his criticisms are wiped away because he's racist. The show missed a chance to explore a contrasting perspective to Twilight's that wasn't necessarily evil.

7677990
Agreed. A more balanced dialogue could have been interesting, given how accurate a lot of his perspectives were.

That being said, there was a lot of terrible one sided characterizations in this season (A Matter Of Principals for starters).

So a balanced Neighsay could be interesting, but I have don't have faith in Nichole Dubic's ability to pull it off.

7677730
My fix idea for the EEA in School Daze is to expand them - instead of one pony there's a three-pony committee, one of each tribe and not all the same gender. I do realise that's a big ask in an episode already introducing several new leads, so I can cut down to two if needed... but I do need two.

Of the three, we have:

• The unicorn, an old teacher of Twilight's from CSGU and very supportive and proud of their former pupil. They're the one with the racial "concerns", which end up creating a rift between them and Twilight. (One of the key breaking points is when they blames Twi's "confusion" on growing up with Spike, who they had - unbekownst to Twilight - advised the Princess to send back to the Dragon Lands right after he was born.)
• One of the other two is the one who's all hard-line on educational standards and rules, and extremely sceptical of untrained outsiders - even a Princess - meddling in things they don't understand. They're the one who will be convinced in the end that a school of friendship perhaps needs a somewhat different rulebook - one Twi and co will figure out as they go along.
• The optional third one is a huge fan of the Mane 6, who's sure they can handle this just like they (insert grand achievement here)! Their ultimate realisation is that their heroes were winging it and made a lot of mistakes - the whole "feet of clay" idea.

Overall, the school would need the approval of two out of the three above (though Twi would of course want all three). So the issues form a real dilemma... does Twi get rid of the foreigners to secure her old professor's vote? Do they all keep from admitting their imperfections to the fan?

I'm not so sure where this structure would have gone after this, though. Obviously the unicorn would cause more trouble later - I'm not sure if they'd end up being the season villain, and/or having a change of heart.

Start with the basics: give him a reason to be racist

School Daze also does him no favors by proving him right by writing everyone else as dangerous idiotic creatures that should be feared and protected against

7678001
Some neat ideas, although if I'm honest, I'm not sure separating Neighsay into two characters would be a good idea.

Plus if you wanted the audience to sympathize with Twilight's struggle, you would have to give her old professor some other positive traits.

That way, the audience could see her as being a well intentioned character.

I don't think the whole vague mysterious mentor thing would work so well a second time.

Especially so late in the series, when the first example of this character (Celestia) was never validated in the first place.

7678006

School Daze also does him no favors by proving him right by writing everyone else as dangerous idiotic creatures that should be feared and protected against

Actually that's the problem. School Daze proves Neighsay right in every concivable way.

It's also a terrible intro for the Student Six, and I say this as someone who adores Smolder.

If anything, if they wanted Neighsay as a villian, then they should have written him as more of a jerk.

Even the implications that EEA curriculum is boring as dirt doesn't matter in the end, because we see that Twilight's own curriculum is considered just as boring and difficult to follow in "What Lies Beneath".

The whole of Season 8 saves it's most informative writing for it's biggest jerks and disasters, (several of whom wind up being the Main Cast).

You could have done 2 things. Either made him the main villain of season 8 and not Cozy Glow and have the main characters confront the racism in Equestria(see season 1 and 2 "Don't be a mule" "An Ugly Mule" The mistreatment of sapient cows and sheep, etc) or you could rewrite him as not racist and have the main characters take his criticism into account and change the school to fixt it.

7678007
Well, I think jumbling the decent points about the school's failings together with the racist ones which just discredit him wasn't the best idea either.

Plus if you wanted the audience to sympathize with Twilight's struggle, you would have to give her old professor some other positive traits. That way, the audience could see her as being a well intentioned character.

Sure, she can be written as superficially pleasant. Albiet perhaps more as somepony anti-social pilot Twilight might like.

I don't think the whole vague mysterious mentor thing would work so well a second time.

What did you mean by this? I don't think I suggested such a thing.

7678054
They probably got that impression by how described Twilight's old mentor.

7678054

Well, I think jumbling the decent points about the school's failings together with the racist ones which just discredit him wasn't the best idea either.

Depends on the writing to be honest. Some characters have good and bad points.

Writing them as a mix of both isn't automatically wrong, if it's done in a way that feels natural.

Maybe it's just me, but with what we've seen about how ponies treat creatures differently than them, Neighsay feels natural to me.

Even Fluttershy (the most accepting mare in the group) was terrified of adult dragons if you'll recall.

Discrimination on the basis that some creatures are potentially dangerous or a nuisance, is nothing new for most ponies.

What did you mean by this? I don't think I suggested such a thing.

The vaguely defined instructor, who we are told is all wise and wonderful, but rarely does anything particularly smart or insightful to prove it.

Their insights are about as on point as any other character, and we never get the feeling they know a whole lot more than the audience, or the other characters.

Yoda and Celestia are both examples of this in modern entertainment.

7678107
Yeah, having a "mixed" character can work in some circumstances... but the effect here was just that Neighsay's points about the school were brushed aside in the face of his speciesism.

The vaguely defined instructor, who we are told is all wise and wonderful, but rarely does anything particularly smart or insightful to prove it.

Their insights are about as on point as any other character, and we never get the feeling they know a whole lot more than the audience, or the other characters.

Yoda and Celestia are both examples of this in modern entertainment.

I agree this can be an issue with Celestia. I still don't see how it's relevant to my idea.

7677730
I would make him as smart as an actual chancellor I would give him a brain.

Neighsay: Teaching the power of friendship to other creatures would be a mistake.
Amereep: How?
Neighsay: They would be able to use it against us.
Amereep: What's stopping ponies from using it on ponies?
Neighsay: Preposterous thinking. Ponies would have no reason to mislead their own kind with friendship.
Amereep: Have you not met a salesmen? You have a terrible time pondering what others are pondering, don't ya?

Do you all want to know something funny? The entire series validates a lot of Neighsay's beliefs. Throughout the series, there are numerous instances where the outside forces either took over or antagonized Equestria. The Changelings took over Equestria and kidnapped the mane six plus the princesses. Discord filled the land with chaos, Tirek stole most of Equestria's magic and tried to take over. The Yaks themselves were violent and vandalized a lot of property when their prince visited. Not to mention, the Storm King and his forces succeeded in taking over Equestria for a time. Granted, there were ponies who antagonized Equestria such as Cozy Glow, King Sombra, Starlight Glimmer, and Tempest.

I'm not saying he was right to hate non-ponies, but it's not too much of a stretch to think some ponies would be against outside relations given how much trouble outsiders caused. Too bad that perspective wasn't given more nuance aside from basic racism.

7678169
Yeah, that's probably one of his driving attitudes, especially since he's likely a Canterlot resident and so was there for both invasions.

7678133

Yeah, having a "mixed" character can work in some circumstances... but the effect here was just that Neighsay's points about the school were brushed aside in the face of his speciesism.

True, but I think that was the point.

They didn't want to deal with a complex morality play, so they went for the behavior they knew would get a knee jerk reaction.

I personally would have had him explain it better (or less obnoxiously) but it is what it is. Twilight had to be right, even when she objectively wasn't.

I agree this can be an issue with Celestia. I still don't see how it's relevant to my idea.

Say you introduce this racist teacher. Say you have them criticize Spike, and argue that he should be shipped back to the Dragon lands.

How do you explain Twilight's loyalty to them after something like that? Will it just be that Twilight realized her childhood hero was a asshole?

Because even Starswirl had better character development than that, despite what everyone who hates him would have you believe.

What traits does this teacher have beyond being a racist?

Because if you want this struggle to be meaningful, you will have to come up with something worthwhile to explain why Twilight looks up to them.

7678211
Twilight would have no idea about that until the teacher's mask starts slipping.

And Twilight looks up to them because they're a powerful mage and a skilled teacher, who always had a good word for the prodigy in their class.

7678214
That's kind of what I meant about the character being a asshole though.

Consider a "Canterlot Wedding". What was the main reaction to Shinning Armor's tirade?

Outrage.

People hated the character, and it wasn't just because he turned out to be in the wrong. It was because they didn't know him.

Twilight was the character everyone came out to support, and because of that, the ending of Part 1 hit very differently than it might have otherwise.

Retroactively introducing another character we have never heard mentioned by anyone before, only to make them a one note jerk, isn't going to put us a position to understand Twilight's mindset, or feel her betrayal.

It's just going to create another hate sink for the fandom. There's enough of those already.

7678221
The character would be built up as Twilight's trusted teacher in Part 1 or so. By the end of the opener, we're supposed to hate them, so the audience reaction is intended.

7678237
Could you really build up a character convincingly over the span of a single two parter though?

Especially one that we have never heard of before, and who is yet incredibly important to Twilight?

7678267
Depends what you mean by "convincingly". I think a bit of exposition and a scene or two of them interacting will suffice for most people.

7678358
Perhaps. Honestly I think a Season or two would be better, but that's just me.

7678545
Maybe, on some other sort of show. But FIM plays neither that sort of long game nor that sort of trick.

7678555

But FIM plays neither that sort of long game nor that sort of trick.

Fair enough. Doesn't mean it couldn't though.

Frankly, I think if you can make the writing better (and get it past the executives) you should at least consider it.

7678568
Maybe... but I think it should be considered quite carefully first. A quick twist is one thing, upturning a character seen positively for seasons is not to be done lightly.

7678590
Fair enough. That could be ugly done wrong.

Might even be ugly done right.

7678596
I mean, it's a good message - often bigotry does sadly come from those we know and trust - but still, handle with care around young kids.

7678635
I was thinking more of potential fandom reaction, but yeah, being careful what you teach children is important too.

7678169
This is what happens when Protagonist-Centered Morality is a core component of a show aimed to kids.

7678785
I thought the same thing, but I didn't mention it at first because I thought no one would understand what I meant. Agreed, the main characters always have to be correct, even if what they deem evil isn't so clear-cut. People might excuse this under the whole "power of friendship" theme throughout the show. However, a theme can be explored in multiple ways, not just one. Why not have the Mane Six fight villains who are genuine friends and not friendless psychos? I know they did something to that effect, with the Trio, but I was thinking about new villains. I guess the show has to have Protagonist-Centered Morality because friendship solves everything, I guess.

7678134
You don't have to give him a brain. He is The Brain.

7715066
In more ways than one.

7677734
And that's not going into how his distrust of other species isn't exactly unwarranted nor came out of nowhere either. I mean, the Yaks wanted to wage war over an auto-playing piano for fuck's sake! Not to mention the then recent invasion by the Storm King's forces.

7677730
Easy: Just make him be the main villain for both the Season 8 Premiere AND the Season 8 finale! :D

Besides.... in the case of the latter.... just makes much more sense than to have Cozy Glow be a twist villain of all things. :/

7677745
Neighsay is ugly and I would not have sex with him.