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Besides, reforming them in the final episode would feel cheap as we would not get to see more of their reformed selves like with Discord, Sunset, and Starlight. Especially Chrysalis, who would ascend to her new form.

I would be fine if they weren't reformed, just get a slightly lesser punishment. I'm not gonna say the trio were innocent, they definitely deserved some kind of punishment. But petrified them while they scream and just let them rot as statues? Screw that. On the other hand, say, if the princesses tossed them into Tartarus, I wouldn't say a thing.

So by lighthearted you mean mental torture where they can’t move, feel or just take a break from each other?

I'm going by the possibility that they are sharing a dream (the spell is specifically called "stone SLEEP spell" and Discord appears to be the exception, not the rule), not awake as statues with a telepathic connection.

I’m not determined to hate them, the finale just left little to like about them. And still, we have what Discord said, the fact that we saw nothing of them in the finale and the fact that everyone was happy to leave them like that. Everything points to the heroes not wanting to reform them and frankly, that’s pretty hypocritical of them.

A lot could've happened in the timeskip. When asked about characters who didn't appear such as Spitfire, aside from Granny Smith, Jim Miller said "just because they don't appear in the finale doesn't mean they're dead." Or it could happen after the finale - they just haven't gotten to that point yet. It would make sense that the Princess of Friendship would detect a dream that friendship was introduced to. And even if she doesn't, if they do become friends in their dream world, it will no longer be torture to them. I know it's difficult to headcanon something but when the future is a blank page, it can be easier. I'd do it myself IF I felt the same as you.

And again, Celestia has no way of telling if someones redeemable or not without talking to them.

She still sensed a change in Discord after Fluttershy reformed him, but as he was not 100% reformed - as we saw in Three's A Crowd, and how Tirek was able to manipulate him to his side - she still left the Elements with the Mane 6 just in case. Like Pinkie's reality-bending antics I don't question Celestia's wisdom. EXCEPT for Twilight's Kingdom, unless she knew what was going to happen all along.

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For Tirek and Cozy Glow, that could work. But Chrysalis? She could just turn into a fly or a Parasprite and get out of her cage, then turn into Celestia and get past Cerberus (or perhaps turn into a dragon, Hydra, or Ursa Major and overpower him, we've seen her turn into creatures like a Roc, a Cragodile, and an Ursa Minor), UNLESS her shapeshifting power could be removed, but the only one who was able to do this was Tirek, and her throne blocked Discord's magic.

I said going in there that, whatever happens with Tirek and Cozy Glow, Chrysalis would either have to be reformed, destroyed, or turned to stone.

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UNLESS her shapeshifting power could be removed, but the only one who was able to do this was Tirek, and her throne blocked Discord's magic.

MLP is basically a high fantasy setting so you can be creative. Things like power nullifying rings or collars seem like pretty standard stuff to me. One kind of punishment I find somewhere was that Chrysalis's shapeshifting powers were used against her and she was locked as a common pony and was forced to live amongst them to learn how to behave. That was kinda funny.

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I said going in there that, whatever happens with Tirek and Cozy Glow, Chrysalis would either have to be reformed, destroyed, or turned to stone.

What about maybe to left Chrysalis in stone for, say a year, to make a point, then let somepony adopt her? Luna could do it since she has now plenty of free time.

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Sound pretty good. You could even headcanon them if you want.

I guess if nothing else there is Discord, he could turn her into a pony or something.

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She knows she's evil and she's fine with it, even if she is really that young she is also extremely intelligent and knows what she's doing and just how malicious her actions are, and loves it.

This is just incredibly bad writing. The writers set them up in Frenemies for possible redemption. I would even say it was the best build-up for possible reformation in the show. And then they just toss everything out of the window and turned villains into murderous psychopaths in the last minute for some reason.

And to why I think it was well written:

Chrysalis basically behaved that episode like a narcissistic egotistical jerk who gives a shit only about herself, but then she took a risk and let drain Tirek magic from her body (which must be really unpleasant) for the sake of teamwork.

Tirek is basically a power-hungry megalomaniac. His whole deal is to absorb as much magic as possible without a thought of who gets hurt in the process. And then he gives it back despite that.

And Cozy for one moment stop behaved like a manipulative cheeky nitwit and actually tried to be really helpful for the other two.

To me, it seems really counter-intuitive that if you want to show that someone is incapable of change then you do it by showing they actually overcome the flaws that made them jerks in the first place.

First, I would have Grogar actually be Grogar. Then Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow destroy him with his own power from the bell for Worf Effect.

I honestly wouldn't mind if Grogars was Discord in disguise if his goal was to teach villains friendship by sending them in various missions. I think that would be really nice.

Although if villains accepted friendship (or at least agreed to be less evil) I have no idea how to make it work with the Twilight coronation arc since suddenly there is no bad guy in the end.

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The writers set them up in Frenemies for possible redemption. I would even say it was the best build-up for possible reformation in the show. And then they just toss everything out of the window and turned villains into murderous psychopaths in the last minute for some reason.

I think it was just meant as a joke for everyone who didn't want them reformed, which is over half the fandom. It's still like 3 million or so so there's still loud voices from those who did want them reformed while those who didn't have nothing to complain about other than the execution aspect.

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I think the problem with that is they declare themselves not friends there, but almost everything after that seems to say the opposite. They keep working together, still come across like they mostly enjoy each other's company, and even when they keep insisting they'll go back to trying to destroy each other after all this it comes off as kind of half-hearted. Sure, they argue and bicker with each other but it's not like we haven't seen friends do that before. The only thing that contradicts this is Cozy trying to betray them when she has Discord's magic, but Tirek and Chrysalis don't even get angry with her for that, they just take it in stride and even seem somewhat amused by it. Not to mention, Pinkie's whole "Turn the cosmos into frosting!" thing later in the episode makes it seem like Discord's magic messes with the user's mind, which calls into question how real Cozy's little betrayal attempt even was.

The thing is, if they had gone the redemption route with the trio it easily could have been the best one in the series, because it would have been the first and only one to actually be built up in episodes prior to it happening. But even if it didn't, a subverted redemption arc could have been really interesting if they actually went through with that, but they didn't. Nopony outside of the trio ever tries to reach out to them, the trio's rejection of friendship amounts to nothing because they basically keep working together perfectly fine anyway, their lack of true friendship doesn't play a part in their defeat, and it all leaves a sour taste because it leaves me feeling like these three could have genuinely been helped if someone other than Discord who actually cared about them and saw them as anything other than pawns got ahold of them.

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Well, if what you're looking for is a redemption arc rather than disliking the princesses for not trying to reform them, then we'll almost certainly get one in G5. It doesn't seem statues that were once flesh and blood can erode over the years (unless Discord's continued survival is just him being Discord, similar to why only he was conscious as a statue) so they'll be preserved, likely all these years being an instant for them unless they were dreaming, and the summary said "make new friends out of old enemies". And even if that doesn't refer to them, it'll most certainly happen in an episode where writers either disappointed they didn't reform or wanting to appeal to those that were, will release them for redemption. They'll have a time making it work but they'll do it.

An episode would be the smart play because then those who want them reformed can go by it as official canon, those that really have an issue with it can FanonDiscontinuity that episode, but if they like our G5 ponies they can still go by the movie and maybe every episode before as canon.

Furthermore, reforming them in G5 can tell new stories with their reformed characters, like Discord, Sunset, and Starlight, and Luna depending on how you view Nightmare Moon. Especially Chrysalis with her ascended form. Reforming them at end of G4 wouldn't have given them that opportunity, though of course as none of them can die of old age (except MAYBE Tirek if he's long-lived rather than immortal or he only lived a thousand years due to Tartarus) they'd still be able to appear in G5 anyway.

While I'm definitely fine with them staying where they are, or being shown headless in the background (cept Cozy Glow, she can stay in one piece), I'd be open to their redemption if they handled it adequately like Discord and Sunset. I didn't mind Starlight's either but many found it hard to swallow and think she shouldn't have been forgiven - likely the reason why they didn't reform the trio.

I could tell going in that with all the focus on them in those two episodes, they were setting them up for either redemption (helping to defeat Grogar) or making them the main villains instead of him.

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The thing is though is that I do somewhat dislike the Princesses, though not specifically for not trying to reform them as much for how the punishment was handled. Allowing Discord, the guy who started the whole mess to suggest and even take part in the trio's punishment was just a complete spit in the face of any kind of actual justice. They come across as more a pair looking to enact vindictive cruelty rather than lay out what they feel is a just punishment, and as much as I can't necessarily blame them for having such a desire, them succumbing to it is rather disappointing, especially as it's the ending of the show. While a G5 redemption arc could be interesting, I feel the damage to G4 and it's characters, especially the Princesses and extra especially Discord is pretty much already done at this point. I also have no trust that even if G5 is in the same continuity and even if they do an arc like this that they'll actually address the issues I have with it.

Honestly though, I'm not annoyed they weren't reformed. I had no specific desires for that, I didn't care either way. I thought there was interesting potential for the trio in either case, the execution is just awful to me.

>>RainbowDoubleDash
I was wondering whether you intend to write the next part? The previous ones were pretty interesting. :)

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I am hoping Gen 5 would fix the damage about Luna there honestly..