Equestrian Mercy · 3:42pm Oct 26th, 2017
Introduction
What do you do when an enemy is vanquished?
In Human history, the answers have ranged from "make honorable peace with him" (Western European culture, usually) to "impale him and rape his women as the last sight his dying eyes shall behold" (ancient Assyria). And everywhere in between.
The Equestrian answer is usually "accept his surrender, and forgive him."
I. The Reason Why
The reasons range from different biology to different culture. The Ponies simply seem to be less vicious than Humans: they are not as easily roused to a killing fury, and they come down from it faster and with less long-term hatred. What is more, the culture which Princess Celestia has encouraged in Equestria, over at least a thousand years (1500 years in the Shadow Wars Story Verse) is a kindly and forgiving one. It takes a lot to make Equestrian Ponies want to kill one, and generally requires that one pose an active continuing threat to them.
This has both advantages and disadvantages.
II. Advantages
The advantage is that they are able to end their wars more cleanly and with less needless loss of life and treasure than is normally the case with Humans. This is a significant advantage: consider the waste of the Thirty Years' War of 17th-century Central Europe, or the World Wars of 20th-century Europe in general. Note that both these protracted conflicts destroyed all core participants -- Germany was wrecked in the Thirty Years' War and most of Europe in the World Wars -- even some of the victors won but Pyrrhic victories, in the grand strategic sense.
Equestria has mostly avoided such ruinous conflicts. This is one reason why she has steadily grown over time, until by the end of the Shadow Wars, she is by far the dominant Power upon the Earth.
What is more, her merciful treatment of vanquished foes has frequently allowed their assimilation or alliance. The Griffons, Minotaurs and Changelings all used to be enemies of Equestria. All to varying degrees became her subjects or allies in the Second Age of Wonders.
Of course, this doesn't always work.
III. Disadvantages
The disadvantage of mercy is that it permits false surrenders.
A "false surrender"is when one agrees to a truce or peace treaty with no or at least little long-term intent of actually adhering to its conditions. The surrender only lasts until one is strong enough to strike again at the former victor.
The advantage is that said former victor, who believes that he has already fought and won the war, is likely to be dismayed when he realizes he has to fight the war again. What is more, the former defeated may well learn from the errors which led to his initial defeat and put up a better fight the second time.
An excellent example of a false surrender in the 20th century was Germany at the end of World War One. The Allies were demoralized by the effort needed to defeat Germany the first time, and hence leery of intervening to defend the Versailles Treaty. What was more, the Germans learned from many of their mistakes in the first World War and improved their tactics and operations for the second (though, thankfully, neither their strategy nor grand strategy).
The disadvantage of a false surrender, of course, is that unless the formerly-defeated wins, and wins decisively, the victor is likely to be merciless the second time round. The Germans paid for Poland 1939, France 1940 and Barbarossa 1941 with Hamburg, Dresden and the Rape of Berlin.
Of course, the more merciful the victor, the less vindictive he may be toward false surrenders. Israel has spared the lives of the Palestinians despite repeteated false surrenders on their parts. Equestria might be even more merciful.
But Equestria has a safety-mechanism.
IV. The Role of the Princesses
Equestria is not a liberal democracy, but something which the real world has rarely approximated -- a liberal enlightened despotism. The Alicorn Princesses are immortal, wise, and considerably more combative than is the Equestrian norm. Having long memories and experience, they are less likely to be fooled by or accept false surrenders than would be most other Equestrian leaders.
Hudna wouldn't work on them, not after the first time. The second and subsequent times, they would demand unconditional surrenders, including occupations and re-educations of the populace -- or, simply, not accept surrenders, even if the decisions were unpopular (these are among the difficult things Celestia and Luna have done in their long lives).
For instance, the Snow Griffins repeatedly tried false surrenders in the Shadow Wars Story Verse -- and the Snow Griffins are no more, by the time of Twilight Sparkle's birth. Not as a nation, anyway. Technically-speaking, Celestia committed genocide, or at least ethnicide, upon them -- she intentionally wiped out their culture, a policy she decided upon after the first couple of false surrenders by them (but then, they were hyper-aggressive, treacherous cannibals).
Conclusion:
One can be nicer than is normal for Humans to one's defeated foes -- if one is prepared to be nasty when one's mercy is rewarded by treachery. Equestria, particularly in the SWSV, is an example of this.
I have to wonder how Twilight deals with the more ruthless side of the diarchs when she sees it action. For one who idolizes Celestia, seeing her behave in such a way would be distressing at least. Of course, she's never really seen that part of them beyond her vision of the advent of Nightmare Moon; on other occassions where the hammer of the alicorns might fall on the deserving, they weren't present. Though I suppose Discord and Tirek's escapes might qualify once one removes the TV-Y filter...
4708436
Celestia and Luna have gradually revealed some of the nastier episodes of past history to Twilight as part of training her to become their assistant ruler. Some of it shocks her, some of it doesn't. Twilight comes of a military family and is unusually-aggressive for an Equestrian Pony, which I think you can see in vanilla canon as well. I show some of this in Post-Traumatic.
4708441
Unfortunately not to the populus.
She's a coward unwilling to be judged on all her actions and with her current track record I'm surprised the majority are willing to put up with eldritch threats every six months.
She's no coward. But she is an Autocrat, rather than an elected leader with limited powers. And one of her weaknesses is that she can be too kind to her subjects.
I suspect that one safety mechanism (which I saw in a fic I alas, can't remember, and immediately adopted as headcanon), is that by and large the ponies prefer to be forgiving, and so will always give you a second chance... but the key word there is second, and this policy does not extend to an indefinite series of third, fourth, and subsequent chances without some very compelling evidence that something about you has changed.
(Hence Discord and Starlight, say, get their one chance to screw up again post-reform, but should something like that ever occur again... not that time. Meanwhile Tirek goes to Tartarus, goes directly to Tartarus, etc., and Sombra is just plain blown away, 'cause they've already had and wasted their chances to reform... and kind is cognate to neither weak nor stupid.
Just frequently mistaken for them by Future Members of the "You're A Pony! You Can't Do--" Club.)
>ranged from "make honorable peace with him" (Western European culture, usually).
That at the very least requires expansion. If you mean "in theory" that makes sense. If you mean "historically" then unless you only mean it for a verry narrow definition of conflicts of nigh-eaual powers within culturally homogenous territory that could be somewhat archaically called 'Christendom' a rather, for a rather short period of time, it is patently untrue.
Either way, you make a wrong distinction here.
The punishment, wether in politics or criminal justice has four functions: retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, and incapacitation.
Ponies, being generally not violent or criminal by nature and living in a society that clearly creates very little incentive for crime, have neither desire for a retribution for the sake of retribution, nor a need systematic deterrance. Thus in war and in justice system they only have incapacitating function (such as turning Discord to stone or banishing the Nightmare Moon) or rehabilitating function.
The crime or war would pretty much be viewed as a malady - you either cure it or isolate the patient so he may not harm himself or others, but you do not punish somebody for simply being unwell.
Also
4708513
Is plain wrong - Discord is currently on his third chance, and that is only if you count the major disasters.
4708482
If she's unwilling to be honest, a supposedly important part of the power their society holds, thats cowardice, regardless of how she has the means to do so.
4708441
4708482
I like to think Celestia (Luna not so much) appreciates the humbling effect it has to know it's regular, "mortal" ponies who are the conduits of Equestria's most powerful magic.
Well, most of them. Twilight "Princess of Magic" is a different matter now.
4708529
Discord's a special case. Not only is he a potentially useful ally, but Celestia loves him. In the SWSV, anyway.
4708531
Celestia would probably agree with you that she can be cowardly when it comes to admitting past mistakes to those who revere her. That's been one of her flaws in her education of Twilight Sparkle.
4708515
I'm talking about the Grotian Law of War, which codifies an older chivalric tradition. Part of the reason why we see a lot of chaos and cruelty today is that the Law of War is no longer effectively enforced, and hasn't been since the start of World War II.
4708513
It's very easy to underestimate the Equestrian Ponies, because they are extremely nice and prefer peace and friendliness. But, as Discord observes in Divine Jealousy, the Ponies have historically had a tendency to long outlast their foes.
4708604
Yeah, if you define conflicts as "within christendom" or just not consider anyone outside of Europe to be human, sure.
Outside the culturally homogenous group of tightly-knit countries whose ruling classes were bound by blood and marriage, anything went. For all the "chaos and cruelity" you write about (surely not seriously) by the per capita measure of Medieval times, the wars of 20th century (much less of 21st) would be considered no more than a boring Tuesday
4708608
Yes, that's quite true, both in terms of the parochialism of the original chivalric concept (only upper-class, only Christian or at most some Muslim European and Classical-Mediterranean, etc.) and in terms of the greater brutality of medieval compared to modern times. OTOH, the Laws of War were being better and better enforced, until the cruelty and fanaticism of the World Wars -- and especially World War II -- spoiled it.
Things might have gotten better after World War II, had not the Cold War -- and the sympathies of the Western intellectual elites for Communists and Third Worlders -- gotten in the way of a restoration of the enforcement of lawful conduct on the battlefield. Which -- given the history of Islam in Central Asia and against Slavic lands -- is coming right back to bite the former Soviet Socialist Republics, now isn't it?
4708628
Wait, what? Literally nothing you just said makes sense. It is either nonsense (as in has no meaning I can discern) or just not corresponding to any historical reality.
What possible "Laws of War" were "better enforced" in the age of colonial empires? Again, compared to Cortez and his band of merry maniacs, the genocide of Native Americans under the banner of Manifest Destiny, Chinese Opium wars, General Sherman burning cities like his personal set of matches, the British Raj, and the Boer wars, the WWII is a fucking picnic.
Any "Laws of War" that may have existed only (rarely) worked within the very same Christendom long after the term was out of vogue, because if it wasnt fucking your cousin and/or could not punch you back it was not counted as even being a human being. The Cold War was the epitome of "rules of engagement warfare", piss poor as those rules were, precisely because a single faux pas could have lead to the literal end of the world.
The wars are getting better controlled and less dangerous (to the civilian population) as the time goes, there is no "other hand" about it*. World Wars arent even a blip in this trend.
*Well, dscounting the possibility of nuclear apocolypse. Which, unlike in times when bacteriological warfare was considered a convenient idea, is actually kinda acknowledged and controlled for.
So, again, when you are in your initial post talking about "Western Culture" approach to conflicts, you either agree with the implicit assumption of that time that anything outsied that very narrow club or times and territories, are not even bloody human and should not be counted, or you're making a very stupid point.
I wonder what happens when the ponies meeting an evil smart enough to actually abuse this system.
This is because I learned history in a free country, with access to books from many different persepectives, rather than the pathetic, shattered educational system of a former Communist country. Seriously, you're not living in the real world, but rather a toxic soup of memes left behind by the KGB. You have my pity.
4709107
This has occurred to me. In the SWSV this has mostly been avoided because Celestia and Luna are not the slightest bit naive (and Cadance is actually rather bloody-minded toward any foe who dares threaten her Ponies, especially her family). The Equestrian educational system is not infiltrated by memes hostile to the survival of Equestria, because Celestia and Luna remember how memetic warfare worked in the Age of Wonders and clamp down on that: the most they'll tolerate is somepony like Professor Ashen Smirk, and that mainly because they're not as hostile to Discord as Smirk imagines. Smiling villains who abuse the Ponies and then plead higher motivations or misunderstandings, again and again and again, get killed or tossed into Tartarus.
But, yeah. The big weakness of Celestia's system is that it is an autocracy, and very dependent on an extremely benevolent and competent hands-on autocrat to protect it. If you want to see what this sort of a system looks like breaking down, or how badly things can go if it wholly breaks down, read the Lunaverse stories -- or even more so Fallout: Equestria. Not just the horrors of the Wasteland, but the way that Celestia's personal failure of nerve and Luna's inability to manage complex political factional disputes led to the Realm teetering on the edge of civil war before the final Zebra attack -- and also made recovery from the attack far, far more difficult.
4710060
I hate that fanfic with every fiber of my being. Drug addict Pinkie Pie. Fluttershy effectively causing the end of the world. Rarity being part of a racist propaganda machine. Twilight creating a race of Frankenstein monsters. And basically everything the mane six did in the past serving no actual purpose other than to make the OC's lives harder in their present.
There's a reason that Starlight The First and the rest in 7 Dreams/Nightmares actually spend their lives trying to preserve pony civilization.
4708529
4708640
I will say Sombra and the Storm King both got the retribution treatment with them being smashed to pieces. Otherwise I do agree with you. Humans as a whole, no matter how much we preach about forgiveness, tend to love retribution. I was thinking deeply and I wondered, if someone is truly repentant, truly wanting to change and proving it with their actions, then what is the point of punishment? If a person accepts a apology from someone, then why is it that as humans we often still think of them as having wrong us? We often treat someone who has stolen as a thief for the rest of their lives, even after they may have gone to prison and have never stolen things again. Les Miserables' Jean Valjeans treatment happens far to often.
And Jordan Israel is a bad example as well. Their mercy so to speak, isn't because the hardliners who took control of the county after the Yom kippur war or six-day war would very much like the Palestinians to either die off or be pushed off the land so they could have a buffer zone around the country. But with international eyes on them, they have to play nicer then they would like. In actually this is more of a example of not truly excepting a surrender, so some of the Palestinians have said what the heck, Let me be Evil, cause they sure where treated that way. This is why the problems still persist. False Terms makes for False surrenders in the fullness of time.
4710056
Ahhhahahha.
Cute.
No, no, sure, if your superiour education system lets you believe that an ad-hominem attack (that is noy afctually even true*) is a response, as you always seem to do, sure, me and my toxic meme soup of actual arguments are not gonna win against that.
*http://www.master-and-more.eu/en/news-detail/news/top-40-education-systems-in-the-world/
I mean Im not the one to break out the stereotype of fat lazy American who dont know geography and history, but... Yeah.
4710322
I actually don't want to turn this into a long debate about the degree to which war has become more or less civilized, but what I have noticed is that in the period after World War II war has become more civilized in terms of the military practices of Western Europe and Western European descended cultures -- and much more barbaric on the part of everyone else. For instance, the Korean War (right after World War II) included the systematic torture and murder of Allied POW's by the Red Chinese, and the current Terrorist Wars include the murder by various inventive tortures of both POW's and civilians who fall into Caliphate hands. And there is no talk of punishing anyone for war crimes, other than Westerners.
So, basically, you're wrong.
4710337
Oh, Im not talking about westerners being the only assholes. Everyone else are fucking animals, sure. Heck, Im even willing to grant that Europeans were marginally better than those they warred agains would be if they were given equal means.
But _you_ started with "western culture is about honorable surrender" and thats just bull, and _you_ were the one about how there used to be "better laws of war" and that, again, is bull, inasfar as any actual practical matters were concerned, with barely any caveats.
Don't change the subject mate, you're moving the goalposts a second time here. And still "basically wrong" on both previous statements.
4708529
The purpose of retributive justice carried out by the state is to assuage the desire for retributive justice on the part of individuals, hence allowing criminals to atone for crimes by suffering punishment rather than to continue to be punished by their former victims. This is not at all irrational -- it is the main way we prevent the occurrence of multi-generational feuds, which can escalate to outright genocide.
Because the Ponies are generally more forgiving, they don't need to employ retributive justice to the same extent than Humans do. Though note: "more" forgiving is a relative term, and Ponies are not entirely immune to the desire to take revenge on their foes.
We know for sure that there are Pony criminals: the Show has directly depicted some. In particular, the Flim-Flam Brothers (con artists); Dr. Caballeron (thief), Cabelleron's thugs (enforcers) and Starlight Glimmer (revolutionary). There are also non-Pony criminals who commit crimes in Equestria (such as the Longhorn Gang). This is before we get to outright raiders and invaders.
4710347
I said that the notion of making and accepting honorable surrender, and the codification of the laws of war, are characteristically Western. I stand by this claim. The modern West is not the only society that has done this, nor does the modern West perfectly apply these principles, but the West has done this and applied them more often and consistently than have most of their other practictioners.
The main reasons why adherence to the Laws of War have declined in the last century are (1) the rise of ideologically-radical regimes, who considered themselves above the Laws of War (the Communists and Nazis were the main offenders in this regard), and (2) the decline of Western influence over the Third World, which has reverted to its former atrocious practices. Today, the Laws of War are honored mostly by European and European-descended cultures, with perhaps the notable exception of Japan (and we don't know for sure, since the last time the Japanese actually fought a serious war, they violated the Laws of War with gusto). They are not honored in the Mideast (save by Israel) or in Africa or most of Asia.
4710212
In the case of Israel, the Palestinians have repeatedly made false surrenders. If Israel waged unlimited war on the Palestinians, pretty soon there wouldn't be any Palestinians to discuss, save as an element of the historic past, or refugees in other countries. Presumably, countries which didn't border on Israel.
I understand the extensive anti-Semitic propaganda to which you've probably been exposed if you were educated within the last quarter-century, so I forgive you. I suggest you study the history of Israel some time, starting with the Zionists and TURKEY.
4710111
Fallout: Equestria is a very dark story, and the flashback parts of it in their own way as dark as the main story in the Wasteland. The flashback parts basically about how mistakes by Celestia and Luna, and (if we add in Project: Horizon, the reality-based but sadly-misapplied fears of the Zebras) combine to utterly grind down the Mane Six (and Luna, in PH) and corrupt the Realm of Equestria under the strain. And, of course, everything that happens leads inexorably to the Final War.
But it's not pointlessly dark. To begin with, the emotional, moral and psychological destruction of the Mane Six follows from the failure of Twilight Sparkle to Ascend, and then from the misapplication of their powers and virtues.
Every good thing that happens to them is poisoned by the war, and the demands (real or perceived) of running the Ministries. Their love lives fail: Twilight and Rarity can't marry their loves because of the rule they set up to remain unwed during the war. Fluttershy falls in love with another character who is the most corrupted by the war. Applejack's lover commits a horrible crime by mistake.
Twilight becomes so consumed with the desire to discover a way to win the war that she engages in horrible experiments (accidentally producing the insane Goddess). Pinkie Pie tries to use her precognition to protect Ponies and finds out that it works best when she is high on alchemical intelligence amplifiers, which also drive her insane. Applejack narrowly focuses on weapons production and finds herself enmeshed in deadly intrigue with financeers. Rarity literally tears her soul apart, trying to give of herself to help others. Rainbow Dash leads heroic commando missions but discovers that even the most intense heroism can't always bring victory in a large-scale war (on the other hand, her other Awesome project winds up saving the day, and Dashie herself survives the War as an immortal ghoul superhoine!) Fluttershy, most tragically of all of them, develops the megaspells with the hope of healing all the war's victims and gives them to the Zebras as well as a peace offering, only to see the megaspells applied to Balefire and even darker magicks, leading to the destruction of both sides.
The reason I actually like the Fallout stories is that the focus isn't on how dark everything is, but how the basically good nature of the Ponies as a species struggles, and eventually succeeds in rising again despite a truly horrible situation.
But I think you can see why I blame it ultimately on my Night Shadows. Specifically, Skloia the Corrupter.
The Zebra mythology of the "evil stars" dovetails very nicely with that.
4709107
Now, that is an interesting question.
I'm guessing that foes have tried to abuse this before, but ran into the problem that Celestia and Luna aren't at all naive. This is also becoming true of Cadance and Twilight, and will become more true given time and increasing political experience on their parts.
The weakness here is that if the Princesses fail, there's a very serious danger that whoever winds up in charge will be naive, or crack under the unexpectedly harsh pressure. There were elements of both of this in the lead-up to the Final War in the Fallout: Equestria universe.
4714887
You seem to contradict yourself there.
Either the Laws of War are a thing that's in decline compared to some idealized past (which is so obviously untrue, it's not even funny) or it's a recent thing in the modern western countries. One or the other.
Also, actually Nazis were pretty good with the whole Laws of War thing, unlike their Japanese cousins. Again - it obviously did not apply to some subhuman rabble like Slavs and Jews and Romani, but within the old Christendom, they were very much playing nice. Exactly like it did in Medieval Times.
I should only need to mention the occupation of the Channel Islands, as compared to the Eastern Front to demonstrate the difference. And the reverse is also true - as a great example, I love to mention is that none of the Nazi leadership were ever excommunicated or forbidden from the Mass by Vatican, save for Goebbels (who was excommunicated for a crime of marrying a Protestant).
That demonstrates perfectly the extent and limit of the so-called Laws of War. And in every other culture, you'll see pretty much the same thing. The internal fights within the larger self-identified common group would have an entirely different level of codification than the one with an opponent whom you can successfully dehumanize.
The difference between West and any other culture is that (a) we study internals squabbles of the tiny Europe in much more detail than say, wars of feudal Japan or inner fighting of African tribes, and, on the other hand we only study the war of other cultures when we actually fight them, thus forming a bias such as you demonstrate. The other difference, of course, that a higher development of the material and technical sides of the western culture lend themselves easier to higher humanist achievements. There's hardly any sense in comparing the nigh-stone-age Apache tribes or Aztec empires to the colonists of the Age of Geographical Discoveries and expect their morals to be any more comparable than their technologeies.
4714885
Sure, but that I would think is not a quality that would be encouraged in pony society or codified into law. And note - even when Twilight was inexplicably suspicious of Trixie in the Starlight episode, there was never any word on the insuficiency of the punishment or desire for revenge, merely concern for possible future actions, and even then it has been treated in the show and in universe as at least somewhat excessive.
Also, Starlight Glimmer is not a revolutionary. She has never expressed any desire to secede from Equestria or to take over it. She's a cult leader, perhaps, a would-be-regicidal terrorist (though inadvertently), but revolutionary is not a term that applies in any strict sense of the word.
4714890
I'm sorry but what's with the insults? Most of my info I got on this is from Israelite sources, and none of them say Israel should be disbanded or even say Jews are the devil and other such nonsense. Seriously I get the point that you like Israel but, like all nations and all humans, they all aren't saints. The info I got on the war and my own options have not once said that the problem that Israel is Jewish or have to do with religion, but the fact that yes Israel has done wrong to the Palestinians due to politics and power. I didn't say that Israel couldn't wipe them all out, only that some in the Israeli government want to do that anyway even with agreements that say otherwise. My point is at this point both sides of the fighting have done things to cede the morel ground.
Which is why my second point comes in, an offer of mercy or forgiveness is pointless unless the person offering it, actually means it. If they say the accept, and still treat the supplicant just the same if they didn't say a word. Which is why true Forgiveness is so powerful, and so scary to give. To forgo just retribution heck, and retribution is a very vulnerable thing. Is why even people on this site think that Starlight should have been thrown in jail to be tormented or killed even after she surrendered to Twilight.
4714902
Please please please don't mention that fan fiction universe. Pinkie Pie the Drug Addict, Twilight Accidentally Creating an Evil Hive Mind with Trixie, Fluttershy accidentally destroying the world... and all the stuff the mane six did in their lives effectively making life harder for the author's main characters...
4714901
IMHO, if I had written Pony POV Series like Fallout Equestria, the mane six would have to fight a demon that the Tales girls had accidentally summoned as teenagers, and that would be just the tip of the ice burg.
4714905
Would you believe both? The concept of the Laws of War, as applying to everyone (not just the chivalry) comes in during the 17th century (in other words, Modern times), in reaction to the atrocities of the Thirty Years' War. Observance gradually improved, reaching a height in the 19th century, but started to decline with the rise of radical illiberal ideologies in the late 19th century.
As you pointed out, the Europeans were very spotty in their application of the Laws of War to non-Europeans (though, note: in the 18th-19th centuries "Europeans" definitely included Slavs for this purpose), though of course non-Europeans often treated Europeans equally or more atrociously. The worst offenders in this regard were probably the Belgians (in the Congo) and Germans (in Southwestern Africa).
(The really horrendous atrocities committed by the Spanish against the natives were mostly in the 16th and early 17th centuries, before the Laws of War were deemed universally-applicable).
The first really large-scale violations of the Laws of War between Europeans were by both sides in the Russian Revolution. The Soviet Union never obeyed the Laws of War, and the exceptions the Third Reich made to their observation were so wide as to bind them to humane conduct toward virtually nobody, save Western Europeans, and then only when they felt like it. The Soviets then succeeded in committing equal atrocities during their counterattack into Europe in 1945, with innovations such as the High Command actually ordering a policy of rape and pillage.
After that the Laws of War were only observed by Western Europeans and European-descended societies. For instance, North Korea and North Vietnam routinely tortured and murdered POW's, including officer POW's, and were never punished for this practice. Right now, following the Laws of War generally means either "We're so strong that we don't condescend to abusing our prisoners" (America) or "We're suckers" (Western European Powers).
The Laws of War may someday make a comeback, but they are now almost a dead letter.
4714910
Indeed, but if evildoers are neither seen to suffer punishment nor reform, then their victims are more likely to seek private vengeance. And that's how civil order breaks down.
This is actually instinctive in social animals -- including both Humans and Ponies. Breaches of the social order are seen as wrong, and too much wrongness is intolerable.
The instinct evolved for good reason. Social animals require a social order to prevent constant conflict, and unless they develop an instinct to defend that social order, the order will break down and their survival be impaired.
You didn't see what Celestia did there?
Princess Celestia gave Twilight Sparkle the right -- and responsibility -- to decide upon Starlight Glimmer's punishment. This was both a lesson for and a test of Twilight's wisdom and overall character.
Starlight Glimmer had harmed Twilight Sparkle and the rest of the Mane Six. The desire for vengeance must have been there, and Starlight's crimes were such that Twilight could have decided to punish her harshly (in the SWSV, theoretically with death, though death hadn't been imposed for warlockry for centuries by that time).
At the same time, there was a rational reason to neutralize Starlight Glimmer. She knew really dangerous and destructive magicks, and had shown a tendency to misuse them. Reason told Twilight that she should neutralize Starlight, and only morality and mercy told her that she should find a better way.
Twilight overcame her resentment of Starlight, listened to the voice of mercy, and instead realized that Starlight's great power, dangerous as it might be if used for evil, might be better employed for good. So she instead accepted Starlight as her student.
Now this was more than just an apprenticeship. Starlight was not free to just leave if she didn't like it.
This was a parole. Under the supervision of one of the few beings in Equestria powerful enough to check Starlight if she turned to evil again -- Princess Twilight Sparkle.
Happily, Starlight lived up to Twilight's hopes and learned a better way to find friends than to mind-control them or warp history into something she hoped would be nicer to her. Starlight has used her power for good, on at least two important occasions now (Where and Back Again and Shadow Play), and to the tremendous advantage of Equestria.
Princess Celestia must be very proud of Twilight Sparkle for what she accomplished with Starlight.
Well ... Starlight Glimmer is most definitely a social and political radical who wanted (and probably still wants) to implement some sort of commune-based authoritarian or totalitarian socialism in place of the liberal enlightened despotism that characterizes modern Equestria. Her plans have probably changed in some respects since she reformed, but there's no reason to suppose she hasn't retained at least some of her radical goals.
She's just less frantic about it, now that she has real friends.
4715066
It's definitely a tragic worldline, but I don't think that anypony truly acted out of character. In fact I think it works so well as a tragic worldline because everypony acts in the way their characters would -- under such extreme emotional, moral and psychological stress.
Arguably their Trixie is a bit too pathetic, but the original story was written before Magic Duel. This is also why she winds up going full-on monster mode when she falls into the Alicorn Vat.
I really like Derpy the Friendly Ghoul.
4715186
You seem to imply one or the other interchangeably, so I thought to ask.
As long as you acknowledge that "Laws of war" only applied in the inner European squabbles and did not at all apply ourside, that is somewhat pertinent point.
But just in case, I willl remind you of the boer war (where the concept of concentration camp was invented), genocide of native americans via bacteriological warfare as examples of "Laws of War" -- both of which was 19th and 18th centuries.
That also applies to all the ludicrous talk of ideologies, by the way, unless you'd imply that either of those war crimes, or, say, use of Agent Orange in Vietnam were in any way motivated by communizm or nazism.
Finally, since you seem to not have the appreciation for the scale of mass slaughter even in most "nice" wars of the past, I will remind you that overall rate of loss of life in american civil war was higher than that of any country in WWI and only comparable to the hottest regions of the Volga front in WWII att the peak of action, and that Boer lost 25% of population in the war, comparable, to, say "mere" 6% of Russians lost to WWII. Laws of war or not, actuall per capita loss of life is incomparablg smaller in 20th century compared to any century past.
The "Laws of War" included Slavs in 18th and 19th century only because said slaves kicked Turks and Swedes ass and then kicked out Napoleon, not because of some sudden humanitarian enlightnement.
And the whole "soviets ordered the rape and pillage" thing is a myth so debunked you should really be ashamed for bringing it up. It is as cbildish a thing to do as bringing up Sozhenicin as a historical document.
I mean, really.
4715066
Remember that Drug Addict Pinkie Pie only became a drug addict due to a combination of manipulation by Goldenheart and the fact that the mind-boosting mints actually did temporarily increase her intelligence and ramp up her precognitive powers. And this was in a situation where both were standing between Equestria and horrible suffering due to enemy attacks.
Pinkie was torn apart by the conflict between her morality and her love of all Ponykind. She knew that the drugs were messing her up, but she knew that the consequences of not taking the drugs could be horrriible for other Ponies.
Choosing to put the fate of others before her own was pure Pinkie.
4715211
It also evolved in the world where Friendship is not a physical force with the power of a nuclear weapon. That should be taken into account when you try to make analogies.
Im sorry, but [citation needed]. Not only is this never said, not only is Starlight in no way guarded or observed, bur we've seen villains just stand up and go away in situations exactly like this one - Trixie after both her goof-ups, Queen Chrysalys, when Thorax defeated her, etc.
For all we know Starlight is exactly free to go whenever she wants.
First of all you either misunderstand or misuse the word "socialism".
First of all socialism is a transitional phase preceding communism. Second of all, both socialism and communism are primarily economic theories pertaining to rights of ownership of means of production, to which Starlight had shown absolutely no serious interest. Actual communism does not make or strive to make all people identical, not any more so than the "Egalite, Liberte, Fraternite" of the French Revolution or the somewhat hypocritical statement that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal".
Now that this is established, I would also point that at no point was Starlight intending or have said to have been intending, to achieve her perfect society with violent and unlawful means.
Finally, her actual big evil act was petty revenge, not attempts at glorious revolution.
Thus both in calling Starlight a socialist or a comunist or a revolutionary, you are not using either of those words right.
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Ironic. Since to cheer me up some friends have told me how pony pov series is more in spirit to MLP than Fallout Equestria is in spite of the latter being more true to canon.
I'd be interested to see how this applies, in uour opinion, to the resolutions of the last couple of seasons. (Which also raise the question of how to treat clearly defeated and overpowered enemies who nevertheless are not inclined to surrender.)