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The Definition of "to tolerate" · 12:29pm Sep 25th, 2014
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tolerate
tol·er·ate (tl-rt)
tr.v. tol·er·at·ed, tol·er·at·ing, tol·er·ates
1. To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit.
2. To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others).
3. To put up with; endure.
(4. (Medicine) To have tolerance for (a substance or pathogen).)
What does this mean? Let me show you in an example:
I'm a Christian, and I have Atheist acquaintances. Let's see how an Atheist who tolerates me will behave:
What will an Atheist do against me for being a Christian?
Nothing. Maybe try to convince me in a peaceful discussion, but will accept if I say no.
What will an Atheist say about me being a Christian?
He will clearly state that he thinks what I believe in is not true, or might say that Christianity itself is a bad thing, but he will say that he accepts the fact that I do believe and not going to hinder me in my religions acts. He might also ask me not to talk about my Christianity with him.
What will the Atheist think about me being a Christian?
If the Atheist is honest, he will think the same as he said.
What will an Atheist think about my Christianity? (Note: this is not about me, but the thing that I believe in.)
He will think that it's the biggest pile of sh*t in existence, something that should be demolished from the face of Earth.
Note: This is the lowest level of tolerance, but is already fulfilling all the definitions of tolerance. There are higher levels of tolerance, e.g.: being open to being friends with a Christian. (If you check the answers, it never mentioned that the Atheist would want to become my friend. He merely accepted me as a human being and decided to let me do what I do.)
So please stop telling people that they are intolerant just because they dislike what you or someone else like.
(To Littlecolt: yes, this is a reaction to the EQD conversation with the other guys. I got sick of people misusing the word "intolerant".)
I wish that Christians would stop causing wars over things and do what they are supposed to do. -.-
I'm a Christian too, I have PLENTY of non-Christian friends, and I don't have a problem with them. They agree with not involving God in their cursing, and if they do I give them a big punch to the face and they say sorry (True story xD). What we are instructed to do by the Bible, is to merely tell people about God, if they don't agree, we let God take care of the rest, don't shove a Bible down their throat! A lot of the time, a person will come to you and ask you why you are always happy and everything, and if you can say, "because I'm a Christian." People will see that in you if you just maintain the witness itself.
Lol I better stop before I teach a Sunday school lesson
Basically, don't get mad if someone doesn't believe in God, you tell them, you did your job. All you have to do is stay Christian.
2482234
Yep.
Although I wouldn't punch someone in the face.
2482242 Maybe I was exaggerating a bit
The word "tolerate" has certainly become to mean much more than its original definition nowadays. Many people say tolerate, but what they really want is acceptance and change.
I'm an atheist. I live by a philosophy of "do as little harm as possible" (Because let's be honest, it's impossible to do NO harm all of the time.). I have morals, higher than most I would like to think, and they have everything to do with a respect of humanity. I would not want to be maltreated, and I therefore do not maltreat others. This includes the words I say and the positions I take. Many people, for example, are confused about the concept of religious tolerance when it comes to atheism. It's quite simple, though. Just like I chose to not believe in any of the various religions, you for example chose to believe in one of them, or more likely you were raised and taught from infancy to believe in that one. Whatever the case may be, just as I expect my decision to be respected, I respect yours.
Let me fill in your little questions.
What will I do against you for being a Christian?
Nothing, I don't participate in discriminatory speech or actions. The fact that you are a Christian means next to nothing to me. It's something to take into consideration when interacting with you so as to be a good friend, but otherwise it has nothing to do with our relationship.
What will I say about you being a Christian?
"He's Christian."
What will I think about you being a Christian?
He's probably been raised in a similar situation to the way I was, but instead of rejecting his upbringing, he's embraced it.
What will I think about your Christianity?
The same thing I think about anyone's Christianity. I think it's a mostly harmless ideology that at its core teaches people mostly good values, even if the premise is false. I think it was invented, like any religion, to control people and get them to behave the way those in power wanted them to, under the threat of some sort of punishment from a being you can't see, hear, touch, or otherwise interact with. The fear that this invisible hand is real is enough to put people in line, though. Likewise, the Christian approach of using positive reinforcement by saying that god loves you works even better than the negative reinforcement of damnation.
The problem is when people who hold this ideology get angry because there are others who don't adhere to it in the same way they do. The old testament says homosexuality is wrong, and someone who is Christian and also doesn't like homosexuals, is going to use that. It's called "confirmation bias." The thought process goes something like this: "I don't like gays. The bible says that the gays are doing a bad thing. This means that my position is correct!" - Even worse when these people use that emboldened attitude to cause harm, emotional and physical, to homosexuals who aren't doing anything wrong. If the old testament had not said it was wrong, surely the ones who don't like the gays would just find another reason. There's always that type of mindset, it's a hateful mindset.
So this is not a problem with Christianity, it is a problem with the people who misuse it for their hurtful agendas.
Christianity? Islam? Buddhism? Wicca? Shintoism? Paganism? It doesn't matter which, if it's being used to hurt people, it's a problem with the people, not the religion.
2483491
Thank you, it was really interesting to read your point of view.
I just want to address two things:
1) About acceptance:
The statement "I don't like gays. The bible says that the gays are doing a bad thing. This means that my position is correct!" is not Christian. This is completely against the fundamentals of Christianity.
This is how it works:
Most people know two attitudes towards acceptance:
a)You do good things -> You are a good person -> You are accepted
b)You do bad things -> You are a bad person -> You are not accepted
For a Christian, there is a third way:
c)You do bad things -> You are a bad person -> You are still accepted
God's personality is a combination of truth and love. His truth says, that I am a sinner, his love says that he will accept me as his child and love more more than my own mother or father ever could, regardless of my sins. (The conflict is resolved in Christ's sacrifice.)
This is why a Christian can say, "What you do is a sin/bad thing, but I still accept you and love you". We learned this kind of love from God himself.
And also this is why sometimes when a Christian talks about homosexuality, he might seem to contradict himself, because the listener does not know about the "c" version of acceptance, or does not believe that it is possible.
2)About homosexuality being a sin only in the old testament
This is not true:
Romans 1
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
2485177
Yes, but of course, this is just like I had said. There are bad people who say and do bad things and use their faith as an excuse to themselves and others. The bible can be interpreted in so many different ways, which is why these sort of differences exist among Christians, and is why there's so many branches of Christianity. (I was raised Catholic, FYI)
Christians who judge others would do well to read Romans 2, which is amusingly enough right after the bits you pasted in, there.
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.
BUT! Who is to say what this means, anyway? Does this mean judging within your heart, or open judgement? Furthermore, there's plenty of places in the bible that teach judgement, there certainly was a lot of stoning of people and god basically commanding humans to commit terrible acts of depravity and violence. That's not the point I am making, here, though...
The point is: I hope you are not so naive that you think that there aren't Christians who are hateful and judgmental, feeling that they are righteous because they are in line with their favorite verses from this book - a book that most of them have not read fully, anyway.
As I said, this is not a problem with the religion, it's a problem with the people.
Also, sorry if I am getting so into this... before I was doing this brony thing, I was a big religious debater, online and off. I am trying to tread lightly here so I don't end up offending anyone, which is unavoidable in a religion vs atheism debate (Which we are not having here).
2485956
Nah it's perfectly fine. I also used to be a debater (or apologist), but this just feels like a friendly discussion.
Yes, Romans 2. It practically punches the "I don't like gays. The bible says that the gays are doing a bad thing. This means that my position is correct!" guy in the face. It kinda says "dude, you have just judged someone to be not worthy for love because of x sin, but you are at the same time committing y,z,a,b,c,etc. sins. God gives you kindness, forbearance and patience, shouldn't you do the same?"
So yeah, I think in this topic, we are on the same page.