Twilight floated a second fritter up to her mouth when she realized the first was gone. “What is in these things?” “Mostly love. Love ‘n about three sticks of butter.”
This was the first time in 100 episodes that Trixie got bored and crawled away from the first episode she sat down to watch. I mean, I know everyone is fanboying, but that's kind of sad to me.
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Lack of Pinkie does not a good episode make. At least for Trixie, I'd guess.
I'm supposing the episode changed little for you then? Any ponies you potentially find interesting now?
Trixie couldn't handle this much awesome and had to shield herself from excessive levels.
I knew it. You and TD really are the same person.
3145196
Gummy.
But it's not just lack of Pinkie, Trixie doesn't seem to mind any of the main cast, even Spike or the CMC. I think it's more that she's familiar with them. You have to figure that she doesn't even know an episode of MLP from any other show on TV, but she knows the voices and shapes of the characters she sees a lot. So this episode might as well have been any other show to her.
3145220
Yeah, figured that was it.
And yes, Gummy is definitely the best, more wisest pet now.
So when can we expect a Gummy/Winona shipfic from you now? You know it'll be the most intellectually stimulating pairing ever.
3145217
i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpg?fb
I did not see Bon Bon's backstory coming at all. It's limited her but good God she had nothing to begin with honestly.
3145234
Not much into pet shipping, but someone should do the Ponyville Pets Philosophical Society, and write a fic where they all embody different philosophies.
3145240
But why? Why you imply the show is only for kids? I think is a show that have a shared audience. I don't see bad at all that in 100 episodes, there is one, more dedicated to the grown up part of the audience that to the kids part, while the other 99 and counting have the usual balance
.
3145265
Because you like the show when it's aimed at little kids, but Trixie didn't get to watch a new episode of ponies today?
There's a show you and Trixie can both enjoy. This wasn't that show.
3145240 Have you forgotten that the show's creators are intensely aware of us, talk to us, share our enthusiasm and also that it's not the first time fans are acknowledged on a cartoon?
Trixie probably got bored because the focus was not to her tastes. Just like it can happen to anyone.
Nope. You should be ashamed of feeling so righteous and judgmental on something that was done in good faith and as an acknowledgement to the fans, that you need to throw in our faces your distaste. You're like those idiots that got on Hasbro's case for a choice of voice acting.
3145240
Yes, 99 straight episodes dedicated to the core audience, followed by one episode for the outliers. How dare we ruin the show with our influence.
3145276
Mmm, but I don't like the show because it's aimed to little kids. I just like the show, something I think i share with kids from ages to 6 to 9, to 12. My cousines who are 10 and 11 years old love this show and I'm pretty sure they love this episode. The fact that the show is "aimet" to 6 years old kids does'nt mean that that's their only public, and I not only speak of grown ups people, but for a lot of kids who would enjoy this show as much as the enjoy the bizarre world of Adventur Time, Aunt-Grandpa, Gunball and other bizzare shows (just for name somes)
3145290
This is true, but keep in mind:
Trixie's tastes are remarkably simple to satisfy, and can be easily satisfied along with the tastes of anyone who has enjoyed one of the previous 99 episodes.
There are very few quality shows on TV that can satisfy Trixie's tastes. The tastes of 18-30 year old geeks are catered to by pretty much everyone else in the world, in both high and low quality ways.
Trixie (and others like her) is, in fact, the reason My Little Pony exists. Period. They were invented for her, each generation of the show, including this one, was designed to appeal to her.
3145251
I would read the shit out of this.
3145276 In fact, I never saw Doctor Who or the Big Lebowski, so in the the Dr Hooves scene i didn't get the references (apart for vaguely knowing they were speaking about that fimls/seires), and still I enjoyed the joke of Dr Hooves in the bowls. But apart of that wich was a much more "obscure" references, any kid could enjoy the idea of Spybonbon, the steven magnet gag in the spa and the weeding, the octavia/vinyl scene, or most of the gags. I'm new to a lot of thing of the fandom and I didn't recognize a lot of things that now I'm reading in comments (like the twicane), and still, I enjoyed the simple gags of the show without fhurter knowledge.
3145302
If you liked any of the previous 99 episodes, the writers can make an episode that both you and Trixie will enjoy. Instead they made one just for you. Would you be happy if they made an episode that acted like Barney/Blues Clues/Daniel Tiger for 22 minutes, just for Trixie? Or would you think that's a bad episode, because it only caters to part of the show's audience?
Isn't Trixie quite a bit younger than the actual target audience of the show? I think it's intensely unfair to judge the quality of the episode based on how a two year old reacts to it.
3145321 Unless you are seven years old or so I suspect you don't actually know what the target audience thinks of any of the episodes let alone this one.
3145316 Yes, I do understand that, BP, but at the same time, saying that they can't once, out of a hundred do a nod for us fans like say, Powerpuff Girls did in the past, is not right. Worse still, saying something like: "We as a fandom should be ashamed! Ashamed I say!" is moronic.
Should the focus remain the age group? Yes. But, regardless of that, you can't say that their success is a singlehandedly kids thing. We swarm to watch the episodes when they air, just like them, and we enjoy them on a different level than them. Thousands of people around the world are more aware of it than any other show in the HUB. It permeates Social Media, for example, which is as much as a selling tool as anything, and that has nothing to do with Hasbro's efforts. Parents and bronies are the ones that have the money to spend on merchandise, not the kids, so it does benefit them. There's nothing wrong with a nod to us either once in a lifetime.
3145321 And if you had said it like that, I would have issue with your statement, other than to go with what 3145360 said. What did 7 year olds think about this? Let's see... I'll ask an actual 7 year old that watches the show...
Edit: Gah, her dad isn't answering. I'll come back later with a response.
Edit 2: She did like it! Apparently she loves weddings. Won't that be a nightmare for her dad?
3145360
I do agree with this. Though I also think that this episode wasn't very well tailored to older girls, either, and I think it's pretty obvious that the writers decided not to try. I doubt anyone who's not a serious fan of the show knows or remembers any of these characters.
I just think it's sad that they didn't try.
3145346 Exactly, It wouldn't be my favourite episode. But I wouldn't have any problem, because I know they are more episodes that I can enjoy, and they just made and episode that would make 6 years old kids very happy with the series. (sorry, this uses more verval conjugation that my poor english could tolerate).
Also, I think that we can't say for whom this series is made. This, despicte at all, it's a product and a a creative story, made for people who made it and decide what and who they aime to "conquest". Most of the kids I know who enjoy the show are 9 years old, nod 6 (wich in kids years is a big difference). The fact that they started the show aiming to 6 years old kids doesn't mean that they can change that or relativize that and aim to a more grown public (again, I'm speaking of 9/10 year olds kids, not us), is their economical and creative decision, so I don't think that the "6 years old" is "impressed in stone" or 100% true.
3145379
I agree, but I think it's sad that they couldn't have at least tried to do it in a way fitting with the show and its target audience. Or done something like this as bonus shorts like the ones they made to preview Rainbow Rocks. I have no problem with any of these characters, I just think that, as Jake has put it in various places, this is barely an episode of My Little Pony. It's a string of memes to pander to the adult fans, and a waste of time for people who don't "get it."
3145388
I think that, judging by the history of MLP and fandoms in general, that when the show goes down hill (which it will) or when they change generations again (which they will), it's the little girls who will still watch it. I think Hasbro knows that, and I think if our fandom doesn't know that they're in denial.
3145393
So... Trixie doesn't like it, and she speaks for all kids her age and older? I think the issue here is that it wasn't a thing you wanted, rather than a real, fact-confirmed observation. In that light—and now knowing that your criticism is simply about personal preferences and butthurt rather than a more objective approach and discussion for whatever real issues or potential the episode might have had—I will simply let you rage and sputter on without further acknowledgement.
In my opinion, that is precisely the thing, you are looking through the eyes of someone who knows all these "memes". For me, it is an episode like that episode of the Simpsons who showed a lot of crazy storys of secondary characters (like Apu)C. For someone who does not know the "memes" this were a lot of jokes that follow secondary characters, and that I think are funny, even if you not know anything of the "fandom" or you even remember the characters of other chapters. For those who know Lyra, or Dr Hooves, the jokes were a special touch. For all those who not, they were given to know a lot of new characters. Of course, that election is one of personal tastes.
3145394 I know, I know. They should have thought more about the kids, but who says they didn't honestly think that they might enjoy a slightly different thing? Let's put it in perspective: Hasbro works with very strict guidelines and triple-checks content before it's approved. My honest belief is that, they think this episode might still be fun for others. Sure WE might be getting all the references, but it's still a small story about a wedding, with characters that are there constantly—just like the fans.
Mayor Mare's speech was an acknowledgement not only to the characters, but to the kids and adults that watch the show as well. Listen to it again...
That right there, to me, sounds like the essence of this show. Maybe it didn't work for Trixie, which is a shame, but my kid, who's five, loved it. He watches Dr. Who, and he caught some of the references right there. I don't know what to tell you, I mean, any episode will make someone not like it for some reason. I think people here are just taking the references for us adults a bit too far.
3145425
I can see that, but were the characters ones that people who don't know the memes (that is, the target audience of the show) are going to, or were even given space to care about in the episode?
Maaaaybe Lyra and Bonbon and "Muffins" and Ocatvia. The other characters were either ones little girls are unlikely to be interested in (Dr. Hooves, Cranky and Matilda, the Big Lebowski ponies, Stephan Magnet) or weren't given enough time to care about (the flower ponies, Amethyst Star.)
3145408
Well, that's a thing we just don't know. You say that they will change generation. Maybe. It's a commercial product. If they see that this generations does'nt give them more profits, they may create a new generation, or cancel it. If they see that the kids that in the 2010 or 2011 had 6 years and loved the show, now have 11 or 10 but they still buy the merchandise, they may make the show more "grown up" (In some way, it's even what they try with the films, wich a I don't think are for 6 years olds, but more for the "disney high school generation").
We can't guide by the history of the previous generations, not only because I think that not previous generations had the impact that this has, but for the fact that there is'nt a patron, there are just profits. And Hasbro and DHL will guide themselfs for the line of profits, even if they see that their main buyers are 50 years old divorced graduads arabs men. In wich I can't evene imagine how the show would change.
3145454
As I kind of mentioned below, I can see that, but in that case it was just a poorly constructed episode. If you ignore preconceived notions of the characters and pop culture references, it's an episode that was too full of characters being introduced and whisked away to introduce another one. There was no build up, no chance to attach to most of the characters, and a lot of stuff flashed on and off screen for no reason-- unless you're in on why it was flashed on screen.
If you're not into the memes and references and fandom, it's not good because it's just a poorly constructed story.
It's really only arguably "good" as a thank you to fans, and I understand them wanting to thank fans, but I think there was a better way to do that.
3145459
I agree exactly with what you say (except that I think that Steven Magnet is also a funny thing for kdis).
Also, the new promo of the next episode, show us some images of Lyra, Amethyst and other characters, so maybe they start to playing more important roles in the series, wich would brings more sense to this episode. (I don't put the link for if anyone doesn't like see teasers but is in the firts post of EQD)
3145460
I disagree. Yes, EqG is for older kids. Because Hasbro wasn't about to kill their commercial to the kids they'd always gone after in order to grab them. (Also because kids are incredibly age-conscious: if something is for little kids they can't be caught liking it when they're teens.)
Hasbro will certianly follow the money by expanding, but I promise you that when it contracts (and it will contract; this fandom is a bubble, and if you can't see that then I suggest you hold off investing any money in anything), it's going to be to focus on the people who MLP has always been for: little girls
whose parents have too much money for overpriced pieces of plastic.3145521
I noticed that too, and that would be good and make perfect sense. The more toys Hasbro can sell, the better for Hasbro.
3145240
Why do you presume the intended demographic doesn't know about any of these background ponies? I've known eight year olds who love Dr Hooves and want Derpy as his companion. I've met twelve year olds who say Vinyl Scratch is their favorite character and can recall at least one Fallout Equestria reference in passing. Believe it or not, the demographic knows about this stuff too*.
The internet is a core part of life now. Kids are Pewdiepie fans and watch Minecraft letsplays, you really think they don't know who Derpy is?
That said, I doubt they knew the Lebowski ponies, but when I was twelve, I didn't get the Lebowski reference in Powerpuff Girls either. Didn't stop me from liking that episode.
*Granted, this sample of kids doesn't speak for all kids and for all I know my city just has a really hardcore MLP trend. I'm just saying, don't count those kids out entirely.
3145346
This wasn't a bad episode simply because it catered to a specific older audience, and an episode catered specifically to a very young audience wouldn't be inherently bad, either. This episode is bad because it has so little concrete plot and character, nearly every gag is a meta reference, and it fits very poorly with the rest of the series. It could have been full of fan service and still told a decent story. An episode focused on background characters showing that they have their own adventures and friends and lives had the potential to be a very good episode, with a different execution.
But this is all missing the point of the episode. Fan service isn't about making a good episode or story, fan service is about saying a fun thank you to fans for supporting and following your show with a little, 'Here's something we know you wanted.' It's a thank you, that's all, and getting upset at creators for going out of their way to make something they think fans will enjoy is silly.
When you're not the target of that fan service, it does definitely feel pointless and disappointing, and I'd argue that a much better thank you would have been to make an episode showcasing all the the things that made the show great in the first place. But this episode wasn't targeted at me (or Trixie, I guess), and I can accept that it was probably a lot of fun and nice thing to do for the people it was targeted to. Everything will be back to normal next week. No big deal.
3145542 Of course I agree the fandom AND, the series will go down in some moment, later or sooner, but, i'm not so sure of wich way Hasbro would take in that situation. Exactly for what you say, I could totally imagine EG becoming a series, for examples, trying to aim to the growing up public. He, it's even possible that a big crisis sends Hasbro and DXL all to hell and the next pony generations would be made with legos. Who knows, it may even be fun to see, if the "unikitty" of the Lego Movie is any reference.
3145568
Well put.
3145568
I think the real problem was that they didn't have to choose between fanservice and having a coherent plot - there was what looked like a plot in the start of the episode, with Matilda running off to ask the background ponies for help changing her wedding day and Cranky going and complaining to
DerpyShe Who Must Not Be Named But Who Is Allowed To Talk Now.I thought that was a potentially interesting and funny plot.
Instead, they threw in a bunch of stuff and didn't actually resolve almost any of it.
I would have been entirely happy with an episode that had centered on Matilda, Cranky, Derpy, and the Doctor, with the random other background ponies being used as if they were real characters (and Octavia and Vinyl's bit in the house was fun enough), but instead they tried to cram in everyone and consequently didn't really go anywhere with anything.
Like, Matilda asked Sparkler, who had been totally overshadowed in planning and being a purple unicorn when Twilight came to town, but there was absolutely no followup on it whatsoever. Matilda being worried about it was emphasized repeatedly and then had no emotional payoff. Even the Doctor rushing off to stop Derpy from using his fireworks as flowers seemed to be forgotten (and I'm sad that they didn't set the inside of the place on fire afterwards, as that would have been a funny gag - oohing and ahhing and being excited about them and then it burning down town hall because they set off fireworks indoors).
My opinion of this is it was awesome, and that's not going to change. Yes, the plot isn't the most coherent. It's not meant to be. Yes, it's a bunch of shoutouts and cameos and so on - that's exactly what it's meant to be. Yes, it may be harder to engage with for some because it's missing many familiar markers, but that's okay.
It's episode 100. It's a milestone. I'm very, very glad they didn't do a flashback episode because in today's day and age? Those are terrible. They existed way back when as budget savers in an age when missing a favorite might mean waiting 6 months to see it again, so the end of season flashbacks were fun. Now, when you can watch a season in 2 weeks? It's 'I just saw this' fatigue.
With the target demographic, we don't even know yet; our sample-size in thread here is currently 2. But then again, if not for the adult fans, the target demographic would have lost out on a ton. Ponies almost certainly wouldn't have made it past S3. All the show-accurate toys that exist were driven in part by feedback and social media presence -asking- for them. Because, after all, the target audience doesn't have a big social media presence; the Bronies do. And Hasbro has shown it is pretty damn good at identifying what from that presence would appeal to both groups of fans, but without the presence in the first place they would never get the feedback that is valuable to them. Like, for example, Celestia being pink way back when. I know, as a kid, that was the sort of thing I hated. I -wanted- show accurate; but hey, I could barely write, I wasn't going to be mailing letters back going 'Please fix this'. For all the talk about co-opting, a lot is missed in how the fandom actively aids the target demographic in getting exactly what they like.
Next, I think the argument of target vs bronies misses a critical third group, namely the staff themselves. This is the episode they just got to be hugely out right silly in, and I'm confident they loved being able to not just turn it to 11, but throw the playbook out the window for an episode. It's a way to get a bunch of stuff they've wanted to do, but can't, out of the way - and if they make it to 200 and do the same thing again? I'll celebrate that, too.
It's alright if it didn't click for you, but I do think going into the 'This should have been different, it's terrible it was done this way' is basically thinly veiled 'You shouldn't like this for what it is' to the crowd that loves it. And I don't see my love of it tempering anytime soon.
3145693
I'm not suggesting anyone shouldn't like it. That would be stupid and impossible. I'm just pointing out an aspect of it that's kind of... selfish. "We got ours, and it's the best! ...what, who cares if it's something little kids would like?" If someone making a show for 6-year-olds thought in terms like that, it would be... well, every show for 6-year-olds that's not MLP.
If you think it's something little kids will enjoy just as much... well, my kid didn't, but I can't speak for anyone else. And in that case, if that's seriously what you think, then you won't see any problem.
If you think it's something little kids might not enjoy as much as regular episodes, and you don't care... well, maybe consider that? Is that seriously who you are? Is that what the show is?
And if you liked the episode, but feel like maybe it is kind of ignoring part of its audience, you can acknowledge that it's not the best episode of the show, but it was cool for fans. Maybe consider that if they did this again (for 200 or whatever) there are ways they could have done it that acknowledged everyone who's made the show popular, not just their social media crowd.
You don't have to not enjoy the episode, but I posted this in the hopes that some people will think about the question.
Despite having a couple genuine laugh-out-loud moments, I really can't say it was my favorite episode either. The fandom-based stuff felt, well, old hat, at this point. It kinda had the same problem Equestria Girls did: it lacked anything I thought of as novel. So the stuff I found cringe was extra-cringey.
I dunno. B-, maybe a B.
3145653 Get over it.
-------------
I get what people are saying about the whole using memes thing... but I thought it was funny. And I don't care what anyone says... Vinyl. Octavia. Wubcart: EPIC.
3145615
Yeah, I'd agree with all that. This episode does feel like a big missed opportunity. An episode about background characters having to come together to deal with a problem while the mane six are out of town--overshadowed characters excelling at roles the mane six usually dominate, something about the mane six not being the only ones who are benefiting from all this friendship fluff that's been floating around--could have been a great episode, but instead all we got was a weird series of sketch comedies with little connection between them.
But a lot of people do really love this episode, and apparently this is exactly what they wanted. When so many other people enjoy something that I don't, I have to chalk it down to simply being something that wasn't made for me.
(wades through comments)
...
img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130424214258/random-ness/images/thumb/d/de/No_fun_allowed.jpg/500px-No_fun_allowed.jpg
Don't mind me, just doing a service for others who wander in here
3145859
Trixie thought that should have been posted before the episode.
3145863
Trixie's grievances also by far make the most sense out of this entire thread.
3145819
Or, more cynically, that it doesn't matter how well executed it is so long as it includes the requisite material.
A lot of people think that being easily amused speaks badly of you, but it really doesn't; being easily amused means you can find more enjoyment out of things which are of a lower quality, which means you can be less picky in the material that you consume.
The main reason that such is bad from the perspective of the people with higher standards is that people with lower standards mean that you can produce something which I don't consider to be very good and it will amuse the people with low standards. If you can amuse the people with high standards and low standards simultaneously, obviously that's better, but if you are a very cynical person you might not bother producing something for those who care about higher quality material as they're a minority.
Thus, it is worrisome to someone with higher standards to see stuff they consider to be of lower quality being highly praised as it makes it less advantageous for those who seek to merely produce the good enough to bother producing something better, and thereby, they acquire less material to consume themselves.
3145240 Hey, hey, SJW, How many tumblrs did you kill today!?
3145653
Well uh, you can check with me in a month or so. Pretty sure I'll still like this episode then
3145292 I don't see how this was for the "outliers/adults" really. It featured other characters than the other episodes. The mane six still had roles. The moral of the show was nice. Well, two of them really. (You can tell your secrets to a friend / We're all part of a community). I really don't get some SJW's who've been riding on their high horse for the last two weeks heralding the episode being bad.
I liked it. It was fun. It had several big tie-ins with Rainbow Rocks. It was energetic. The Gummy bit might have been a bit too much, but other than that I can't see any reason why this wasn't a good episode.
3145880
Or perhaps standards are flexible, and can be adjusted according to what media is being consumed at the moment.
3145983
Whether or not you actually like something is not really something which is under your control.
3145568 Bingo. Pretty much everything I wanted to say.
3145615 This, too.
This episode reminded me a lot of Suited For Success: what happens when you let everyone else design your episode for you. Hoity-Toity, who was not there, would probably have said it had everything but the kitchen sink.
3145765 I do feel strongly about the target audience, and I really wish people could acknowledge that yeah, it is a show for little girls. And I like it that way. (Curiously, its being for little girls doesn't mean it couldn't have shipping in it, since most little girls' entertainment does, although I'm glad they don't have too much of it, as it tends to take over.) On the other hand, it's not the only time there's been an episode that just didn't do a lot for me, and I'm sure Trixie would agree. I'm glad other people enjoyed themselves, and as long as it's back to business as usual next week, I'm set to go.
Silver linings, because I'm all about those:
Plenty of material for a certain panel: canon, fanon, fandom expectations, etc.
Also, the promo! The future promo! Cherry Jubilee ZOMG I am so happy