Several things · 8:09am Sep 14th, 2015
- Chapter won't be released today, most likely it'll be released tomorrow or Wednesday.
- I might not actually be going on that European tour right now after figuring out how few holidays I actually have from time spent working. Also my mother is throwing a hissy fit because she doesn't want me going traipsing about Europe while the migrant crises is going apeshit, (the journey goes from Milan/Venice to Vienna Austria and from there to Krakow in Poland and from there to Munich in Bavaria, Germany), keep in mind when my brother and his wife went to Copenhagen, Denmark they literally walked passed the very bench where there was a suspected bomb not fifteen minutes before Danish police descended on the thing in that bomb scare a few months back. So y'know, mothers fretting and all that. I think I could handle myself but she'd have a heart attack.
- Still working on that cipher puzzle again, don't worry.
- Still working on Rust's birthday thingy.
- Went to my first Latin mass yesterday. Much Latin, very Roman.
- Sorry for the slow progress and concerns I have raised in several readers due to my low spirits and general funk, I've received some encouraging PMs and I thank you for them.
- Resurgam
migrant crisis in europe?
I'm American, what's the dealio about that?
You made it sound like their immigration policies are starting to make the TSA look like a good idea in relative comparison???
3392003 Hundreds of thousands of migrants spilling Across Greece, Macedonia, the Balkans Hungary the Czech Republic and trying to get to Germany.
Romania has a military enforced border wall with Turkey. Hungary is building a military enforced border wall with Serbia, Macedonia has declared a State of Emergency, Greece is hapless and floundering, Denmark briefly shut down all rail connections with Germany and almost shut down all its highways and the German government finally saw sense and has 'temporarily' suspended the schengen pact/treaty (the lunatic treaty that makes continental european countries effectively borderless) and is imposing border controls since the City of Munich is in emergency levels of overcrowding with the sudden influx of thousands of migrants.
Its kind of a big deal.
Biggest deal with the migrants (or as the media keeps persistantly calling them 'refugees') from mainly Syria and Iraq is the fact that IS has stated they'll send terrorists along with the flow. That, and the beliefs, customs and religion that move into Europe alongside the flow, with the migration meaning they have no real intention of going back. Which means a burden on the social benefits of each country in aid and support costs... which the tax payer has to foot the final bill for. Plus that some countries are already looking at a high population density.
A refugee would stay where it's safe. Which is in neighboring countries. Most of them however have their goals set to northern Europe, most likely due to the fact that Southern Europe has a potential lesser lifestandard in comparison. Which makes them migrants in my opinion.
So just this weekend Germany received about 25.000 'refugees' from Austria that went to Munich. They expect some 800.000 this year alone.
That said, I'm in the Netherlands and I can't really say that I've noticed a lot of the crisis other than on the news so far. I can't say how it is in the border area's between Greece, Macedonia, Hungary, Austria and Bavaria (Germany) tho.
3392014 Well Ireland has been pretty insulated as well (nobody wants to move to Ireland, lel, poor and Irish) our biggest concern is the crises at Calais, with migrants from Libya (most of whom are not, in fact, Libyan, but subsaharan Africans looking for better lives) landing in Italy and causing havoc in the southern half of the peninsula, the Italians have been funneling them north to France and France has been funneling them to Calais for a few years now until we had those explosive riots in Calais and the panic across Britain. When you consider nearly all of Libya's port cities are controlled by ISIS or JIhadi militias, you can understand the British panic.
Speaking strictly from an Irish standpoint, what happens in Britain might spill over to Ireland but otherwise we're alright.
I'm still hearing an awful lot of stories out of central europe about how these migrants are acting, esecially when authorities are trying to give food, water and aid... and how 70% of them are actually young men. Angry young men unaccompanied by families.
>Handyman's face when he enters continental Europe
media.giphy.com/media/beVT4V14xDHdm/giphy.gif
3392021 My potential thought on the fact that most of them are men... They take the hard trip to a country that allows for family reunification.
At that point the wife and kids can come over without a lot of the hardships the guy getting here first had. On average speaking family consists of 3 individuals (man, wife and kid). Going with that, the 25.000 migrants flowing into Germany may very well have 20.000 men that are aiming to bring their family over. Which would up the number of migrants in one weekend to 60.000, plus the 5.000 I discarded.
And while migrants need to request asylum in the country they first land in (Dublin agreement) most don't. Too much hassle, and thus decide that since the Schengen agreement is active (open borders) to just move on. Basically making them illegals. Normal procedure is to ship them back to the country they came from. But now exceptions are being made. Which only heightens the chance of getting to a northern European nation and getting asylum there.
Germany granted free passes to any Syrian travellers... Which to my knowledge now EVERYONE is. Just toss your passport, say you're from Syria, and presto.
The whole deal with the Mediterrean Sea also irks me... Yes, boats sink, and people die. So we save them, and instead of bringing them back (thereby discouraging the route) we bring them to their destination (thus enforcing smuggelers and people to STILL try that route. And by bringing them to their destination, we increase the pressure on the country they arrive in even further.
Most EU citizens are willing to help. But they're not willing to help at all costs. We're only just recovering from a financial crisis. Help your own country first, and when that's sorted out, THEN look at helping migrants. Refugees can remain in camps in the region. With the insane salaries payed to the EU politicians, there's plenty of money in the EU to provide for some supporting funds for those camps.
I think IS is managing what it wants without lifting a finger. They only need to hold on in Iraq and Syria, people will flee in terror, the EU doesn't do jack, the nation states don't want to loose face to anyone and just keep welcoming smiles, resulting in such an influx of people the countries will see their economies come under such strain they may fold (thus dragging the world economy down, along with China now, which may well pull the US down aswell), and spread the word of Allah (which one has to admit is the dominant religion in the Middle East) which may well start to overshadow the Christian beliefs many nations have utilized for centuries.
Yes... I worry...
Eh, your brother is Irish -- he can sense when there's a bomb nearby.
I'm of the firm mind where the Syrians and Iranians aught to be solving their own damn problems. How long has this been going on? More than 20 years if they're that displeased with their own country.
3392072 I'm not even convinced most of them are even Syrian or Iraqis. There are far too many reports of migrants having new clothes, smartphones and plenty of money on their persons for me to not be mightily suspicious. I'm more then ready to write off well over half of the migrants as economic migrants, not refugees. Hungary has the right of it, we're not obligated to put up with this shit, let the Gulf countries open up their borders and then we'll talk about hefting our share of the burden. But they won't, they know whats up.
The fact that most of them are young men of military age is.. also a bit disconcerting.
3392063 Super Irish Bomb Sensing powers go!
3392084 Ten points to Gryffindor
3392059 Well if its any consolation, Germany is suspended schengen, putting in border controls and Austria has mobilized the troops. All we need now is Italy to guard its portion of the Central European frontier and we've effectively stemmed the tide in Eastern Europe, though Greece and Macedonia are screwed without help.
Still doesn't solve the problem with them coming across from Libya into Southern Italy utterly unchecked though.
All this European immigration business makes me feel a whole lot better about the Australian refugee policy...
3392321 A lot of us Europeans want to adopt the Australian model. And I mean a lot.
3392324 Which is ironic, given that a large number of people here want us to accept more refugees with less background checks, etc.
3392326 Well those people are fucking idiots.
3392074 They're breaking into your base!
People really need to learn the difference between refugees and economic migrants.
3392201
Can we just restore the Axis? pretty much all of them are Western friends now anyway. Hell, cut in the
SoviFederation and you'll have the grand 'ole Axis and have a nice wall of nations in opposition. The French or whoever can take as many as they want, so long as they ship them around or fly them over.Just gotta be sure we don't put a German in charge of the New
World OrdCoalition of Sovereign Nations.3392738 Pfft, the only thing making this funnier is Russia's actions at the UN security council trying to figure out a way to stop the boats.
What are you up to, Mr. Putin.
3392541 All our base are belong to them.
Someone set us up the bomb.
3392598 Tell that to the news sources. Apparanatly everyone is refugees and how dare we check to make sure people are who they say they are before the come across borders. That's just fascist.
3392757 I just love how Hungary is pretty much labeled the bad guy in all of this. Because hey, we have to blame someone.
3392757 wish the BBC would get the message.
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3392757
Nothing of your concern, little ones.
static1.businessinsider.com/image/5134c5a969bedd3273000011-1200/putin-stares-down-a-young-chick-at-an-agricultural-exposition.jpg
3392850
It's amusing that everything on that map is "War", "No War", "Benefits", "Iraq" and "Russia". They should be labeled in red too, no one in their right mind would want to go to either.
French guy here.
You should listen to your mother, better safe than sorry.
3392757 And racist. Don't forget racist. White cis scum.
Meanwhile, we editors were patiently waiting for you to finish those last few hundred words so that you could get the chapter out!
3393126
>implying there is only a hundred words left.
Top Kek m8.
3393136 ...You're a dick. A big, floppy, Irish dick.
3392074 Yes, that's more than a mite disturbing.
3392074 While there are undoubtedly others taking advantage of the situation to get out of the middle east (not that I can really blame them for not wanting to be in that shithole
), you do have to remember that ISIS has displaced something like 12 million Syrian people. Most of them are still in the country or in neighboring countries, but international aid to support them is falling so conditions in the camps are getting worse. Throw in the fact that there are tons of groups indiscriminately shooting, blowing up, and gassing random people and it is not hard to see why they want to leave. After all, new clothes, a smartphone, and money will not protect them from armed lunatics, but they will make it easier to get to Europe.
Also, I have heard that there are quite a few people with college educations and technical skills fleeing the country and pushing through to Europe precisely because they have the money and other resources to make it easier. Given the tendency of the middle east in general to mostly educate men and the fact that young people will have a much easier time on a rough trip like that, the demographics are really not surprising.
As for Germany, I expect this to make them much stronger in the long run just like every historical country that has accepted waves of immigrants/refuges (the US is basically built on this). The influx of young people used to hardship provides a major boost to the workforce which naturally results in increased productivity, those people also naturally add more consumers to the pool to trade in those resources, and this increase in the overall economic cycle naturally generates more wealth and more tax revenue for the government to cover the needs of the extra people. Sure the transition is a bit rough, but the long term result is a clear win for everyone involved. Also, Germany is currently facing a serious population decline so an influx of young workers is even more important for them to help support the growing elderly population in the future.
Take your time man, no need to rush. Remember that in the end you are giving us free entertainment so there is nothing wrong in letting it take the time it needs.
As for the migrant crises it's nothing really new, it's been a thing for quite a few years now, it's just that now Politics and Media is making it in to a thing. Just wait till left and right wing extremism gets properly involved and the whole thing becomes such a political hot potato that no one wants to really talk about or do anything about it due to the fear of political suicide.
3393411
That's exactly the point, when they're out of Syria they aren't in danger of the armed lunatics. The flood of migrants would be less onerous and disasterous if these people weren't going from safe country through safe country trying their damnedest (and the law be damned while they do it) to get to the countries with the highest benefit handouts. There's a point where even honest refugees cease becoming such and become economic migrants and deserve no sympathy, especially when they are telling their hosts who are trying to accomodate and manage the flood to go to hell with their laws and regulations and just let them march through their countries as they damn well please.
Yes and No. I can actually confirm that a lot of persons claiming refugee status are indeed well educated, based on my brother's reports of the ones making their way over to Scotland, and there is a sense in sending the young men abroad to obtain jobs and claim refugee status but that is exactly exacerbating the problem. The young men who are there to try to get their families over are going to increase the crises by bringing more over if they successfully make a claim (most EU countries have laws allowing reunions of families if they make a successful claim). But note what I said above about economic migration, they are still breaking the laws of individual nations and the EU as a whole in their quest to do this. "Fuck you, let me in, let my family in and damn your laws, you have no right to determine if I am who I say I am." But most of these men aren't well educated or even with any family ties motivating their movement. Oh and lets just ignore the tens of thousands of pakistani and Afghanistani passports found on the Serbian border with Hungary, or the thousands of fake Syrian passports purchased in Turkey from criminal traffickers making millions off this industry. Clearly all of these migrants are Syrian, clearly. Meanwhile, Ukrainians, Europeans from a fucking warzone right next door, are still being given the cold shoulder but are being civilized in their entry to safer European nations and not stampeding across their neighbours' laws and rights as they seek entry as refugees. I'm sorry, the difference is far too stark.
Everyone wants a better life. But no one has a right to impose on others to get it. Especially not when most European countries are struggling with debt, unemployment, homelessness (a rising problem in my own country and I know its becoming a problem elsewhere as well) and, in the case of Greece, actual cases of extreme poverty and borderline starvation in places.
No offence D48, but you have an extremely idealized idea of immigration if you honestly think its a strengthening thing to allow waves of mass immigration with no checks, because that is exactly what is happening when thousands of migrants shut down railways and motorways disrupting the flow of traffic on a national level in some places to get what they demand. Not even America, you're own example, was that stupid even during its days of accepting waves of immigration. Ellis Island is exemplary in this case. America also had the benefit of being a nation that was more an idea than a historical reality, the immigration wasn't going to radically alter it all that much than it is over here with thousands of people who have no intention of integrating into their host nations, in which case Germany's depopulation problem is not going to be solved by it, it wont be a population boost, it'll be a population replacement. I am insulated here in Ireland, but that doesn't excuse me for seeing the problem for what it is.
Everyone wants to help Syrians, but nobody wants to be taken for a ride by freeloaders, have their laws pissed on and insulted while they do so, many of whom aren't even Syrian, and are spoiling it for everyone.
3394289 They're already involved and that's probably what I hate most about the crises and our feckless ruling classes, almost unanimously pro-immigration parties (even the Tories in the UK are pro-immigration, only paying lip service to their electorates, because in most countries being anti-immigration or even the little bit critical of it makes you a racist nazi) the growth and support of radical left and right wing parties and the radicalization of the body politic is only happening because our ruling parties refuse to actually do anything about this for years and years on end. UKIP for example (though hardly a radical party) would never have been a problem for the British establishment if any of the major parties listened to the vast majority of their voters' concerns over mass immigration. The Front Nationale in France would still be little more than a pub gathering of radicals if successive French governments weren't accepting mass immigration like it was going out of style. But the politicians don't care, they're all wealthy and don't have to put up with the realities of mass immigration in day to day life like the overwhelming majority of voters do, they don't have to worry about their wages being lowered or their benefits being slashed and halfed because the welfare has to go that much further to cover the thousands of unemployed who just landed in the country every year, or their healthcare being stretched to breaking point. If the right and the left go full early 20th century on us again, our establishment brought it upon us themselves and I hope to God that doesn't happen.
3393172 That I am. =]
3393188 Don't get me wrong, sending your young men abroad to earn money is emmigration 101, Ireland practically perfected it over the past two centuries. But when over 70% of hundreds of thousands of migrants are young men, spilling over your borders all at once...
3392995 But but... I like being a straight white male who benefits from the patriarchy =[
3392986 Sigh, I suppose I should. But I still want to see Rome one more time, loved that city.
3392980 Western Russia is not too bad I hear if you know what you're doing before you get there. Russia being Putintopia aside, of course.
3392850 BBC is run by tools, everyone knows this, hell even the Americans know this.
3392828 Hungary has been the EU's whipping boy ever since the Fidez came into power and is the single most euro-critical country in the union not counting Britain. Sure it is not a liberal country anymore, but when well over 60% of the electorate puts a party in power and affirms a new constitution, well, that is supposed to be what democracy is about.
Hungary knew what was up from the word go and put a stop to this nonsense as soon as it could, Bulgaria was ahead of the curve and had a militarize wall with its border with Turkey months in advance, Hungary is just following suit. Macedonia is in a state of emergency and Serbia is basically a road to the migrants, I certainly can't blame the Hungarians for telling Germany to suck a million dicks while it gets it shit in order in accordance with standing EU laws. Now that Germany is forced to impose stricter border controls and Austria is bringing out the troops, I bet president Orban is feeling very smug.
3394470 Don't get me wrong, I plan on going abroad myself, but it'd be a dickish thing I the US just sent everybody to England for a party. It's the same thing with just about any other country.
Oh and yes, we definitely notice the status of BBC's level of tool capacity. Currently at 100 in a gaping anus and counting.
3394289 To be perfectly fair, recent reductions in international aid have forced a lot of people out of refugee camps in the area so there are more people moving now than there were before.
3394450
The problem is that it isn't really safe. The countries nearby are in serious danger of expansions of that mess, and there is not enough aid to keep them there without starving. Money also doesn't last forever if you have no income, there is no work in refugee camps to provide income, and under-supplied refugee camps naturally cause inflation in food prices so all that money can do is put off starving for a little while. Then you have to consider the shit they have to deal with in countries like Hungry so it is not surprising that they would do everything they can to avoid that, and other border countries like Greece are simply incapable of processing the massive influx of people so of course they pass them off to other countries further inland.
As for the laws, many of them were not designed to deal with this situation and a number of governments are suspending or ignoring them because they simply don't work and fixing them would take too long.
No, that is exactly the kind of immigration you want from an economic perspective. It gets the young, productive people into the country early, gets them working to produce more wealth, and then lets them use a portion of that wealth to bring over more consumers to buy more products without adding any strain to the system because the first person is supporting them instead of the state or the charity of the pre-imigration population. That is the kind of immigration that drives major simultaneous population and economic growth which is a great way to make the host country stronger.
Even if they do not have a family to bring over, the immigrants still add to the work force and consumer base of the country so they are still a valuable way to strengthen the economy.
If you are having problems with clogged roads and railways, that is a problem of sorting out people, organizing transportation, and cooperating to keep things running smoothly. Given that a lot of those problems are happening in Hungary where the government is working to screw over the refugees instead of working with them to move them on through efficiently, I am more inclined to blame the government for creating those problems than the refugees.
As for immigration, I think you need to take a closer look at history. If America didn't get flooded like that, we wouldn't have Irish blood in more than a fifth of our white population. Similarly, the city of Toronto nearly tripped in size in 1847 thanks to Irish immigrants and wound up doing quite well for itself thanks to all the extra labor.
Moving on to culture, that is also a good thing. Sure the culture will be changed by the influx of new people, but those differences in thoughts will drive increased creativity and innovation as people of different backgrounds bounce ideas off each other to help them come up with solutions to problems they would not have seen without working together. Besides, societies are always changing weather you like it or not, it is how they grow and become stronger over time. Immigration is just another aspect of that inevitable change so it is not something to panic about. Besides, they are very clearly done with their old homes and wanting new lives in a new country so they will be looking to change themselves to better fit in so they will integrate well enough if they are allowed to.
3394510
And still orders of magnitude better than the garbage our own country produces.
3395630
Actual Response: lel, we still have Disney.
Oh yeah, replacing culture is a terrible thing.
3395635 Replacing culture is different from culture evolving by sharing and learning from a new group. Replacing culture is what happened when the various natives in the Americas were wiped out and replaced with Europeans which was definitely a bad thing. Learning from immigrants from other cultures is what built America up from a handfull of nutty religious exiles and greedy, genocidal scumbags to the most powerful nation in the world.
Germany got its taste of cultural purification and replacement back in World War Two and is busy learning from their mistakes by welcoming diversity now.
Also, nice video.
3395685 Lol, you sure like to talk a lot. I think you're confusing society and culture.
Besides, you're saying that as if it isn't the same thing, and it is. The only difference is sensitive definition of legality and morals. When a larger group moves into a smaller one and starts replacing what's present with what they brought? That's a form of destruction, and in this case the thing being destroyed is culture.
Besides, I think you'll find that America is cultureless and it's why there are so few things uniquely American. It's a result of having one majority replace and subjugate others internally. Anyways, it's not as if the other Abrahamic cults haven't already done this before. Remember all those druidic tribes and their culture and systems of belief? No, I think not, and it's because the lands were flooded by a culture against what lay present with extreme prejudice against what lay in the green lands.
You forget that the right culture changes happen slowly for a reason: so the internal culture learns to accept the invading one without conflict, and so the changes happen for the better without a sense of discomfort, unease and hatred pop-up.
3395779 Yeah, no. Germany has a population of 81 million and there are only 12 million Syrian refugees total with most of them still living inside Syria. Even if they all went to Germany somehow, they would still be a fairly small percentage of the overall German population. With the actual numbers of a few million tops, that just becomes another minority population which will strengthen the German culture just like you described.
3395909 Why are you specifically mentioning Germany like it's the end-all example. Syria, too, for that matter. There are *multiple* countries doing this migration, and it's still a 20% increase of a host's population, which is insane. Most countries aren't built to handle such a rapid influx of people. It takes time to do that shit, lots of it. Mentioning Germany again, the host population was already destroyed by the Jews before WW1. They really don't need any more cultures fucking up their own. Not to mention another Cult of Abraham entirely doing the ruining.
3395960 Because they are the biggest players. Sure there are others, but trying to pull in all the numbers would be insane and irrelevant to this discussion. Besides, I factored them into the more realistic estimate of a few million people that Germany will actually take which will not add more than 5% to the population, and even that much is highly unlikely.
Also, your math is wrong. 12/81=14.8%, not 20%.
3396057 Lol, it was just an estimate, I didn't do any actual math. You don't see me complaining about your writing.
Yes, it would be senseless to use exact numbers.... Though that's exactly what Handy is saying, there isn't any regulation on people coming in. Even 5% is still millions of people, millions that the EU can't handle. They're overcrowded already. Not every country can or wants to adopt the US method of chopping down forests for marketable real estate.
3396161 Heh, thanks. Also, there is no need to chop down forests. We have gotten quite good at building up over the years so it would be relatively easy to build large residential towers to house them, and they provide more than enough labor to get the job done including expansions of utilities and transportation networks. The large numbers of educated people coming over also goes a long way towards covering the extra load on more skilled professions like education and medicine because they can fill the positions needed to support the extra population. That will still probably leave lots of cheap labor looking for work which is easily put to work improving or repairing other parts of the infrastructure just like how the New York City Subway was built by immigrant labor so the country as a whole will get a cheap upgrade in addition to the extra tax revenue.
3397543 I still say your way of thinking is overly optimistic. In a societal standpoint, in an environmental standpoint. The only thing weak is your economic standpoint. Look at the US's current situation and (from 2012 or so), our standpoint on immigration. Lots of people were coming in...but all our money is in the out. It's a temporary solution, and it'll take a couple decades for everything to settle down. Everything about the situation and your opinion on it is, (I might say),
over-ly optimistic. You have to admit to the negative connotations of this current 'refugee' stuff.3397753 Frankly, I am of the same opinion of the situation in the US. I think most of our problems are a direct result of trying to keep people out. If the Mexicans were coming over legally documented and feeling like they could safely build a life here away from the shit going on down there, they would not be working below minimum wage and making it impossible for Americans to compete with them. They might still win in the labor market by being harder workers, but that is something they would have earned through their own fair efforts and should be rewarded for so I have no problem with it. They would also be inclined to move their families up with them and purchase property here because they are building a home, not grabbing money before they get deported, so things would wind up working out better in the long run just like they did with previous immigrant populations (who also usually got the same shit).
Granted we do have some serious problems here that are screwing over the economy, but they have nothing to do with immigration. That is a direct result of corporate ownership of the federal government which is a totally different problem.
3397810 Money results in money. While I admit upper level commercial bullshitting is a huge problem, I won't outright deny that our immigration problem with the Mexicans isn't affecting the economy. It does, and it's probably because there isn't (either enough or the right) incentive against just traveling past the border and setting down for a few months and then sending the cash they'd earn back to Mexico to their already established home. People aren't coming from Mexico to the US to establish a permanent residence anyways.
Besides, even Canada is starting to close down borders between them and the US. I'd heard stories over the radio recently about New York sailors being pushed back out of Canadian waters that they'd entered accidentally by gunpoint after having spent years without any marker present for such.
Immigration in general is becoming a huge problem. It's primarily because of an ancient system that no longer works at all. And if you'll recall, the Great Depression happened post-potato famine immigration.
Looks at date.- Thursday. 17th.
Something come up?
3398408 Work and looking at the document and having my brain go bzzzzzzzt,
3398514 I think they make a cream for that.
3397921 Fair enough, although the potato famine didn't really have anything to do with the great depression. The famine kinda ended 77 years before the depression started.