So I don't know bout you ponies but I get really annoyed at writers when they use the word Lesbian in any MLP:FiM fiction that doesn't involve humans or humanized ponies. There is a reason for this and the fact that the word lesbian couldn't possible exist in that world because of the various reasons that the word lesbian came into creation in this world. One author, our very own Gabriel LaVedier has pulled it off to some extent with nice word and culture play. Also I get early fics before we came up with a word and of course writers who have never heard the word can't be blamed. But we came up with a word so use it! Now is this seriously headcanoning or do I have a valid point?

You have a point, to a point. There's a good argument to be made for not ponyfying everything. We do have fandom words for things, but we also have canon instances of ponies not using ponyfied language. Right from the beginning: in the season 1 opener, the lead-in to Giggle at the Ghosties has Twi saying "Run!" and Pinkie saying, "Oh, girls!". Replacing those with "Gallop!" and "Oh, fillies!" would have been too awkward. My headcannon says that in Equestria, the default words are fillyfooler / coltcuddler. However, I think they'd have multiple words for things, the same as we have gay, lesbian, queer, homosexual, and more. True, Lesbian <= Isle of Lesbos <= home of Greek poet Sappho, but we can't get rid of every word derived from an Earth name or phrase. So, I vote for using fandom words only where they're appropriate and where they flow with the story. I can buy Dash saying, "Yeah, I'm a fillyfooler. So what? I'm gay, okay? Fastest lesbian in Equestria! Got a problem with that?"

Thanks for the plug, my friend. Yea, "Sapphiric" was cheesy but good. And in an oddly roundabout way, it's from the same source.

As the name came from an expy of the Aegean sea, where Lesbos is located, it was meant to be a gem-pun, a pun on Sappho, and a kind of cute reference to a writer friend named Sapphire who used to write a lot of original lesbian short stories.

Generally, I prefer to use Filly Fooler, which is seen as normal, honorable and traditional. For griffins it's Egg Grabber which is a derogatory slur akin to "faggot" with a hint of criminal implication though some griffin hens are taking it for themselves. *Cough*Gilda*Cough*

500662

The problem with this is the word 'handle'. Ponies couldn't possibly use that either, because while they know of hands (minotaurs have them), they wouldn't design anything in such a manner. "Appleloosa" shouldn't exist because it's based on a pun related to real-world geography -- same for Saddle Arabia, Seaddle, Baltimare, etc. Most cities have functional names ("Old Town", "Appleton"), derived names ("New Jersey", "New York"), founder names ("Chesterton"), etc. All of them are rooted in real world information.

The show's culture is a mishmash of reality's culture. I don't think it's impossible to assume (what with minotaurs, Tartarus, etc.) that there's potentially a Lesbos, although perhaps with a less tragic history not involving exiling homosexuals -- but considering the way canon plays fast and loose with culture mishmash, maybe it's just a word derived from a historically significant homosexual female that "coincidentally" matches up.

(Sappho's stuff was gloriously beautiful, truly. I've considered creating an analogue to her in a story about fillies learning about the history of mares, but I haven't really found the right story to explore it in.)

2805436
Well, no you're off on the handle thing. Griffons exists=They have hands=logical assumption they must have handles=Griffons are shown to have some connotation in pony society=thus you're wrong. And while a bit of a valid point, the word lesbian has such an odd and prolonged history that it's just not right in this context. Cause real world, it had a 1800+ year evolution. This also applies to the word gay, can't exist in pony-verse. Coltcuddler, is homosexual male.

And yeah, the shows a mishmash, but that's what we're here for. To sort it all out and try and make logical augments. We are the fandom, this is our job. And to quote sherlock "What do we say about coincidences? The universe is rarely so sloppy."

Also, I sorta gotta defend this point. I am after all the Oc of the word 'Fillyfooler', True I didn't make the word. But still, it's sorta a thing.

2805603

I'm not suggesting that fillyfooler shouldn't be used (I use it myself in my stories), simply that there are arguments to be made for why lesbian could be used sometimes. I don't really like the idea that there's One Word constantly used, 'homosexual female' is reaaaaally clinical, analogous constructed terminology in a story has to be explained to be understandable to the reader, etc. etc.

Minotaurs are connected too, but there's no reason that ponies would make tools for themselves, almost all of them, with a "handle", if they don't have hands, IMO. (But if we differ on that point, I feel pretty sure we can simply leave it alone.)

I'm also not saying that the logical inconsistencies can't be pointed out -- just that the world of the show has a particular logic that isn't terribly strenuous.

And while a bit of a valid point, the word lesbian has such an odd and prolonged history that it's just not right in this context.

I disagree, but I'm willing to leave it at that. No worries.

Also, I sorta gotta defend this point. I am after all the Oc of the word 'Fillyfooler', True I didn't make the word. But still, it's sorta a thing.

I think I'm saying this wrong, or something. I'm not saying "fillyfooler" is bad or shouldn't be used or something. I'm saying that given the insane historical references made (say, Saddle Arabia? Sure, Saudi Arabia was founded in 1932, but "Arabia" is derived from the people of the area, Arabs, and their origination was around 800ish BCE) it's not unreasonable to assume that, if the writers could use terms for same-sex relationships in the show, they might well use 'lesbian' as well as something more horse-oriented like "fillyfooler".

Again, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with the term "fillyfooler". I'm just saying that they steal enough long-historied human-centric stuff all the time. With Saddle Arabia, the implication is just about a race of people instead of a persecuted gender. (Hell, Zecora's practically the classic "magical negro" trope -- differently colored, mystical, an outsider who's friendly, etc. etc. The show's full of that stuff.)

They don't really make an effort to keep it "culture neutral", so I couldn't see any good reason not to use 'lesbian' as well as 'fillyfooler'. That's all I'm trying to say.

2806284
And I disagree with you.

2806608
I take the creative middle ground. They are referred to affectionately as LESBIMARES and STALLIONSTRADDLERS.

2808006
No.

2808304

2808006

That is the first time I have heard of those before.

On particular issue. Fillyfooler and coltcuddler work all and well for ponies, but non-species specific terms are needed. For me, I would just use lesbian and gay for those, mostly due to lack of creativity.

500662 In general I use the term Marelover myself, it seems more accurate to me.

500662

If it bothers you, just pretend that there's a parallel between Equestria and real-earth. I don't think it's that big a deal. We've been shown many times throughout the series that Equestria has many things that parallel human earth, though whether it's meant as satire or not is up to you.

That, and "fillyfooler" in my mind strikes a derogatory chord with me. To my ear, it has a harsh and judgmental undertone.

3719540
Pssst. Look at the date on the orginal post. It was almost 2 years ago.

There is a moron going around necroposting.

3719543

Thank you for pointing that out. It's early and I haven't had my coffee yet.

3719540 I will say that I agree with your observation that "Fillyfooler" sounds derogatory, that's one reason I don't use it.

So, beside Fillyfooler and coltcuddler, what other words can we use?

Gay means happy or someone who enjoy whatever they do. Originally it was to refers to prostitutes whom were happily enjoying her sexuality, and change from that in the 50s more or less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filly

Filly
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about horses. Filly is also a small village in the Ardennes in Belgium.

In most cases filly is a female horse under the age of four years.
In some nations, such as the United Kingdom and the United States, the world of horse racing sets the cutoff age for fillies as younger than five years.[1][2]
The equivalent term for a male is a colt. When horses of either sex are less than one year of age, they are referred to as foals.[3] Horses between one and two years of age may also be called yearlings.

The problem with terms like "fillyfooler" and "coltcuddler" is that neither fillies nor colts are mature, or they would be called "mares" and "stallions". Therefore, those terms imply pedophilia and/or statutory rape with minors. Terms that use "mare" and "stallion", such as "lesmarian" or "homostallion" should be used instead.

3719461

I'm just going to pretend that the necroposter is the OP.

I prefer the terms 'lesbian' and 'gay', or just 'gay', as I'm not really sure thee's any point to specifying a gender when we don't do that with straight people.

There's no reason to ponify everything. The show does this quite enough. It makes sense to come up with pony-names to new cities, as that fall in line with naming conventions, but the actual dialogue really needs no further pony.

Pony. Pony pony pony, pony-pony pony, pony pony pony pony pony?

Some may argue that 'gay' or 'lesbian' doesn't jive with the tone of canon, but I believe that society often places too much weight on such words based off of skewed, obsolete attitudes that such fics are often railing against, anyway.

In the media, a homosexual couple and words associated with that are treated with more gravity, and possibly a higher rating, because of the way society views these things. I reject these attitudes and refuse to consider them. Sorry, went off on a tangent, there.

There's no logical reason to ponify either term, and it may be a breath of fresh air for readers if there was the rare fic that didn't do this. Also, the terms that are commonly used, 'filly-fooler' and 'colt-cuddler' actually sound more like school-ground insults, and emphasize the action, rather than sexual orientation. To me, 'filly-fooler' suggests that a mare is just 'fooling around'. A lesbian is just something that someone happens to be, such as a girl, boy, white, or black, and I find that the term doesn't make me cringe.

3719543

You do realize that some forums actually prefer necroposting, right? You're insulting the OP because they aren't conforming to this clique's unwritten rules.

Well, since this is apparently a thing now...

3726070

Your last paragraph to Bryan Luna is actually something I agree with. "Homosexual," "bisexual," "gay" or "lesbian" work well enough. I think the only sex-related term I've ponified became "foal-fiddler" which... well, that's not related to LGBT people at all.

I also don't usually find the need to actually write such labels. It's often better to imply them by showing characters - who may happen to be the same gender - liking each other.

Also, I feel like ponifying the terms actually induces a small degree of dissociation between "fillyfoolers" and, ya know, homosexuals. I think people can identify more easily and strongly with the real-world terms (almost always a good thing in terms of writing), and it's not like they're human-centric - we already apply them to various other animals which display the same behaviours. And when I ponified one term - "foal-fiddler" - it was actually intended to soften the impact, since it needed to be less distracting from the point of the story it was in. That might just be me, though.

Pony. Pony pony pony, pony-pony pony, pony pony pony pony pony?

I saw a story where the only word used was "neigh".

3725928

"lesmarian" or "homostallion"

...wut

Am I the only one who finds these terms actually kinda off-putting?

3726420

I also don't usually find the need to actually write such labels. It's often better to imply them by showing characters - who may happen to be the same gender - liking each other.

I could get behind this, except that in some stories, I feel that it can cause some major confusion. Sometimes I don't know whether or not the story assumes that their are heterosexuals and homosexuals, or if Equestria is a magical place where anypony can be attracted to anypony.

I read A TwiJack a while back that focused on the continuing relationship between Twilight and Applejack. Twilight was the one with the crush, and Applejack was the one who got into the relationship just to see where it goes. It was probably the tamest romance story I've ever read, which isn't a bad thing, but in this, it was really hard to even know if Applejack had any attraction towards Twilight at all, or if she was just completely confused and ignorant about her own feelings.

3726070
Except that Bryan Luna isn't the necroposter, alysdexia was.

Necroposting a thread that is several years old is poor etiquette, plain and simple and the reasons are demonstrated well in this and the other problem thread alysdexia necro'd.

The problem, for the slow folk, is that you(the necroposter, not DH7) are starting a new conversation, but are basing it off of an old one. Necroposting is lazy. The polite way to do it is to take the time to properly form your own new thread, with the specific ideas from the old laid out among your points in the new. A link to the old may be useful for reference.

What is especially problematic is that it causes us to see what is artificially a "busy" thread already with a lot of "activity" that is not warranted for the new conversation. As was what happened to myself, Bryan, TwilightUcrazy, and others, is that the date/time info isn't immediately looked at, and suddenly people like Fillyfooler are getting notifications for a conversation that is over 2 years old.

That there are other forms that have no problem with necroposting does not surprise me. They're poorly run. So?

In contrast to all this, one of the old threads alysdexia posted in was not an act of necroposting. The rules thread is not a conversation. In that post he actually brought up useful rules commentary and spelling/grammar corrections for the rules.

3726479

My comments from whatever forum from two years ago are still valid. I don't see anything wrong with getting a notification from that. It's not like the conversation is obsolete.

Necroposting is lazy. The polite way to do it is to take the time to properly form your own new thread, with the specific ideas from the old laid out among your points in the new.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with whether or not such forums are poorly run, as it sounds rather subjective to me, but I can agree with much of your point here. In one forum that I post in, necroposting is preferred just for the fact that people tend to ask the same questions constantly, and there's a wealth of knowledge already sitting there in the archive.

That particular forum tends to run a little differently than most, such a thread-derailment not being of any concern to anyone.

I missed that deleted comment. Alysdexia? I haven't run into this user in the forums, but this person felt the need to inform me that I don't know the difference between their and there. It's actually a common mistake for me, but the PM was incredibly vague, not even mentioning whether or not this was in regards to forum-posting, or my story. It seemed like a pretty open and shut case of a bad attempt at trolling to me.

3726542
3726479

You know, it might just be best to drop a line to Fillyfooler about the thread if you feel it needs moderation, rather than argue back and forth about what the rules should be. She makes the rules, after all.

3726439

I could get behind this, except that in some stories, I feel that it can cause some major confusion. Sometimes I don't know whether or not the story assumes that their are heterosexuals and homosexuals, or if Equestria is a magical place where anypony can be attracted to anypony.

I'm honestly not sure what the confusion is here, or why this needs clarification. One pony is attracted to another, and I'm not sure why it can't be as simple as that, or why a story needs to explain the sexuality of everyone the story is or isn't about in the universe in which it exists (unless pretty much everypony is attracted to everypony else, which I don't see much of).

As for your TwiJack example, eh, maybe the writer intended it to be ambiguous?

Also, I added some stuff to my previous post.

3726542
3726857
Well, I'm not an admin in this group, and Fillyfooler has already clearly taken care of the problem person. I'm not discussing from a rules standpoint, but an etiquette one. I've had over a decade of forum experience, with several years of that as a moderator for various forums. I have strong opinions on what is and isn't a good way to run forums, and how users should behave.

...that actually sounds sort of pathetic. Oh well.

Since it appears the actual conversation itself is something people want to have, my two cents:

As others have pointed out, "filly" and "colt" refer to equines that are not adults. Children. I understand that some people are trying to ponyfy things like "girlfriend" and "boyfriend" into fillyfriend and coltfriend, but the issue is that such a translation isn't equal. We humans don't have words in English for equines that span the broad range of gender+age terms that we have for ourselves. So while "boy" and "girl" can be used in an age-neutral manner, colt and filly can't really. Attempting to do so is poor writing because it assumes a reader has the same level of immersion in the fandom as the writer does, which is often not the case, and the disparity is a pointless break from immersion rather than the intended effect of adding to the sense of a pony land.

It becomes much more problematic when trying to use the terms to refer to homosexuality. There is already a real-world stereotype for homosexuals that suggests we are more likely to be pedophiles. Gays in particular liking young boys is a part of why a lot of homophobes are so venomous towards gay men. The terms fillyfooler and coltcuddler really bring that stereotype to the forefront, and sound like terms homophobic ponies would use to insult and belittle homosexual ponies.

That they sound like schoolyard insults that kids would say to each other is a direct extension of real world sources of such bigoted insults. Bigot parents use disparaging terms for people of other ethnicities, and the kids pick up on it and understand only that "these are words you say to someone that means that person is bad. I don't like this other kid, so using this term will make them bad." The same happens with homophobic bigotry.

As for using the terms, be they lesbian and gay or some ponyfied nonsense, they have their place. If the characters are discussing orientation, they need terms to discuss it with. Considering that the use of the word "girls" has been repeatedly used in canon, and "girlfriend" was used in Hearts and Hooves day in particular, it seems that the base fillyfriend, marefriend, coltfriend, and stallionfriend are outside of the convention of the show, thus should not be used. Fillyfooler and coltcuddler, even if they were not objectionable, should also not be used as they similarly break the convention.

That all said, if you're writing some silly comedy piece, part of your comedy effort might be overly silly horsepuns. In that case I prefer things like "stallion straddler" as a silly gay horse pun. In a more serious romance or something, I'd stick with the basics of gay, lesbian, and homosexual, as needed.

3727059

As for using the terms, be they lesbian and gay or some ponyfied nonsense, they have their place. If the characters are discussing orientation, they need terms to discuss it with.

(and pretty much everything else you said)

That I do agree with. Labels are indeed handy for reference sometimes. That just isn't the sort of need that comes up very often in writing.

The point you make about "filly" and "colt" implying paedophilia due to context is actually one I made in another thread recently, so we can agree on that too.

I'm not discussing from a rules standpoint, but an etiquette one.

Eh. Just thinking out loud at this point, but I would normally think forum etiquette is something determined by the moderators of a given group as well. I've found admining a Christian group, admining an atheist group, and participating in other interest groups to be very different experiences, as very different kinds of conversations and circumstances tend to come up.

Some groups across the internet do actually allow revival of old discussions so long as the new posts have something to contribute, and this seems particularly likely when the group has a significant core of users that have been active for a longer time and would really rather not have to hash out the same points yet again. Others automatically, pre-emptively lock threads when there hasn't been any activity on them for a set time.

Just different ways of thinking, maybe? There are certain perks and disadvantages either way, although I do feel that if "liveliness" is a desired trait for a given forum, not permitting necrodiscussions is probably the better choice (despite the expected "oh great, this thread again" complaints).

In any case, whether "useful" necrodiscussions are permissible is basically Fillyfooler's call here, and perhaps this part of the discussion should be in a more rules-related thread anyway?

In a more serious romance or something, I'd stick with the basics of gay, lesbian, and homosexual, as needed.

... how would someone even ponify "bisexual," anyway?

3727059 I'm sorry, but I can's stand the use of the word "homosexual" in a pony world.
Homo is the latin word for human.

And Gay means "happy" so why did you use it in a derogative way?

I'm not sure why it can't be as simple as that, or why a story needs to explain the sexuality of everyone the story is or isn't about in the universe in which it exists (unless pretty much everypony is attracted to everypony else, which I don't see much of).

There's really nothing simple about love.

I don't read many stories that hit the reader in the face with the attraction like a sack of bricks. It can often be interpreted as something else. A good love story typically has a lot in common with friendshipping.

I tend to lean towards non-raunchy romance. Some authors can go overboard with how sterile a story is, and I don't like ambiguity. There are some stories that make a relationship obvious, without making the feelings obvious. It would at least help in some cases I we knew X character wasn't being written as straight, or if they even had that all figured out yet.

I'm used to getting slammed with some fairly depressing developments, usually in the name of slice-of-life realism. "Sorry, but I've discovered that I'm not in love with you, and never have been" is always a possibility.

3727059

Your first paragraph sounds like me, though I've only been a mod in a few, small Final Fantasy related boards. One of those takes-it-too-seriously types.

...that actually sounds sort of pathetic. Oh well.

That is pathetic, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Pathetic is trying to revive a dead forum for over two years.

3727172

Christian group, admining an atheist group, and participating in other interest groups to be very different experiences, as very different kinds of conversations and circumstances tend to come up.

For years, I was used to being able to reply to the above poster without having to quote them. Quoting was always for referencing someone a few posts here. I don't think I could get away with that here, and I better hit that reply button. It makes sense because of how active forums can be, but over at WA (another fanfiction forum) I'd be expected to do the same. Each community has it's nuances, though some are more universal than others.

I'm actually a little more concerned with how people treat each other. I'm fairly opinionated when it comes to debate-etiquette, and you know, not outright insulting one's opponent, but there are forums where ad hominem is the name of the game.

3728184
"homo" doesn't mean human. It means "same" as opposed to "hetero" which means "different."

"homo sapiens" translates to "same intelligence"

while hetero and homo sexual refer to "same sex" and "different sex." In other words, being attracted to the same or different sex from your own. It is a perfectly fitting word.

As for it being from Latin, so what. Do you have issue with the word "pony" which is in the English language? How about "chimichanga" which comes from Spanish, in particular Mexican culture but was used in canon?"

Your readers speak, read, and presumably write in English. The origins of nearly all words in English come from Latin, Greek, or other modern languages which also stem from those (in particular Italian, French, and Spanish).

As for what you're asking about my use of "gay" what? I didn't use it derogatorily. I suggest "gay" is a better word to use in general, alongside "lesbian." I suggest "stallion straddler" as a comedic variant in a silly comedy story of silliness and mirth.

3728274 Right! I forgot about that definition! I want to apologize for that.
I don't have any issues with words from another languages being canon, I'm from México.

And for the word gay, I didn't mean from you, I was asking to all here. Because, as you can see, my first language is spanish, so I don't get all the why and what from all sentences and words I get to read. As: if the dictionary says the word "gay" means "happy" why is and insult or a bad word? why it has to refer to a homosexual person? things like that. Again I apologize.

3728337
It is basically a culture thing. I'm sure in Spanish you have terms that mean one thing according to the dictionary, but you use in casual or slang-speech to mean something else.

Gay meaning "happy" is several decades old out of date. I don't recall the exact reason or decade that the meaning shifted, but it was before I was born in 1979. I guess maybe there was a sort of "happy, loose, uncaring" perception of the gay man, compared to the "serious, hard working, responsible" man that was "normal." It was sort of intended to imply that gay men were more interested in sex than taking care of a family, getting married, and having kids. Rather than perform "duty" they would "play."

It's become so commonly used that today "gay" means homosexual male as it's main definition.

There was a period of time where homophobia and bigotry to wards homosexual men was much worse than it is today. Straight men had this pride thing going for them where being manly and masculine was seen as a virtue, and being gay was looked down on as not being those things. The idea of taking the penis of another man in your mouth or backside was seen by these straight manly masculine men as being womanly, weak, and submissive. So "gay" was an insult to this sense of manly pride. Various related terms to homosexual man, like "cocksucker" "faggot" and so on were things a manly masculine straight man would say to insult another man, regardless of truth, to basically insinuate that they were not manly and masculine.

Words do change over time. As a child, we would "don us now our gay apparel" every Christmas. Words like fantastic used to mean 'bizarre, freakish, scary', but now means something cool. That's why Shakespearean English sounds so strange to us, or Middle English sounded so strange to them.

3728575 3728658 That would make sense! Thanks for the explanation!

3725928

The problem with terms like "fillyfooler" and "coltcuddler" is that neither fillies nor colts are mature, or they would be called "mares" and "stallions". Therefore, those terms imply pedophilia and/or statutory rape with minors. Terms that use "mare" and "stallion", such as "lesmarian" or "homostallion" should be used instead.

That's not necessarily true. It could just be a cultural idiom to refer to homosexuals in Equestria.
Boy and Girl both refer to young males & females, yet using the terms boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't make you a pedophile. Moreover calling your significant other "Baby" as a term of affection doesn't make you a pedophile either.

3731804 Well the terms 'boy' and 'girl' don't always connotate age. For example, a privileged club for men is called 'an Old Boy's Club', but are definitely not referring to adolescents. When a man of any age acts out of turn, they say "boys will be boys". a 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend' can be of any age (other than actual babies). 'Colt' and 'Filly', on the other hand, are terms that only apply to ponies under the age of 4, and therefore too young to reproduce. Hence the perception that even on the best of terms, 'coltcuddler' and 'fillyfooler' imply statutory rape.

3731928 You make a good point, but you need to keep in mind that sentient beings aren't ready to reproduce at such an early age. All available evidence points to Equestrian Ponies sharing a similar maturation process to we humans, so they are not breeding at such young ages. As for me I don't like the terms "fillyfooler" or "coltcuddler" because they sound bigoted and derogatory, which is why I won't use them myself.

3731931 Actually, among horses and ponies at least, turning 4 is about the human equivalent of turning 20 years old, give or take a year or two. There seems to be a debate about how long Equestrian ponies live, or what their age benchmarks really are. For example, horses are really old at 36 while a human can continue on strong past 110 (well, not many). But they do imply the human scale for pastel ponies, as Pound Cake and Pumpkin Cake are still the same 'size' as human babies even though they should have had more developed legs and been walking within minutes of birth if they lived on 'pony scale'.

3731938 Well the oldest living human I'm aware of is 117 years old, and Granny Smith seems to be pushing about 200 years, but this comes down to the different ambient energies form their universe to ours. Specifically magic, we don't have that here so their lifespans would actually be prolonged versus our own. It's interesting to note that simply being more aware of your existence seems to increase the lifespan, it's also somewhat confusing to me as well.

3731941 Then the redwood tree (2,000+ years) and Galapagos Turtle (177 years) must be very aware of themselves. One of the longest lived animals is the Bowhead whale that can live up to 211 years.

3731942 Yeah I think I heard about that whale, but it's definitely not universal. maybe it has something to do with problem solving, I don't really know. By the way that's one heck of an implication, it is just short of outright admission.

I will also say though it's not totally relevant that species vitality is interesting to me, even though I can't fully understand it. I mean Redwoods are huge but have such shallow root systems, it's truly impressive that they can get that old.

3728575

There was a period of time where homophobia and bigotry to wards homosexual men was much worse than it is today. Straight men had this pride thing going for them where being manly and masculine was seen as a virtue, and being gay was looked down on as not being those things. The idea of taking the penis of another man in your mouth or backside was seen by these straight manly masculine men as being womanly, weak, and submissive. So "gay" was an insult to this sense of manly pride. Various related terms to homosexual man, like "cocksucker" "faggot" and so on were things a manly masculine straight man would say to insult another man, regardless of truth, to basically insinuate that they were not manly and masculine.

You speak about this in the past-tense, but from where I stand, these attitudes still very much hold true. I'd say that the vast majority of men, and many women I know feel this way.

Whoa. Who's Necrothreading? alysdexia I blame you!

I personally thought that fillyfooler and coltcuddler were derogatory terms for gay mares and stallions. I mean, it's like being called a pedophile, in some ways. There's a line we have to draw as writers as to how much ponyfication is too much ponification.

Euphemistically, I call lesbians Moonians and gay stallions as Solarians, as the Moon is traditionally paired with softer gender stereotypes, and the Sun with harder (read as female/male IRL). Of course in Equestria this doesn't play s well since both Solar and Lunar rulers are Alicorn mares... that is unless you subscribe that all Alicorns are futanari, so as to have possess traits of ALL ponies, including sex.

Personally, why can't there be an Isle of Lesbos from which (in)famous poet and philosopher Sappho came from? I mean, the Isle of Lesbos is within canonical range at least in terms of cultural mythology, after all.

3731928

[ 'Colt' and 'Filly', on the other hand, are terms that only apply to ponies under the age of 4, and therefore too young to reproduce. Hence the perception that even on the best of terms, 'coltcuddler' and 'fillyfooler' imply statutory rape.

Filly is repeated used to refer to the any of the CMC or students of Miss Cheerilee, all of whom appear much older 4 years. Especially given their first episode has them at a Cute-ceanara party, a play on the spanish quinceanara parties held when a girl become 16.

The thing is you can't make a direct correlation between the real world and Equestria, and claim that somethig that is true in our world must be true in theirs.

Ponies in our wold live only 25-30 years, so is Granny Smith only 30? Real world ponies can't cook or eat eggs, talk, do magic, ad nauseum..., yet they can do all those things in Equstria. The fact that a word like filly or colt means a horse 4 years old or less in the real world doesn't mean that those terms can't be the equivilent of girl or boy in Equestria.

Moreover Twilight refers to the CMC as fillies in "Stare Master", Cheerilee calls her sudents in the talent show during "Show Stoppers as "..talented fillies and colts..." Applejack refers to herself as a filly during her "Cutie Mark Chronicles" story yet was older and mature enough to travel by herslf to a fairly large city. Granny Smith refers to Diamond Tiara & Silver Spoon as fillies yet they already have their cutie marks and refers to herself as a filly in her flashback even though she too had her cutie mark. In Ponyville Confidential, the CMC also refer to themselves as fillies in their apology leter. Do thing think they're only 4 years old?

Cultural use or idioms can change a meaning of a word, Gay use to mean lighthearted and carefree, yet how often do you see it used for that in modern usage?
Girl is directly derived from the Anglo-Saxon word for a child, yet usage have change it to mean female and a not necessarily a child. Whose to say Filly or colt could evolve in Equstria in the same manner to be less age exact?

Point is I find (my own opinion) it much more likely that filly & colt in Equstria have evolved the same way girl and boy has in the real world. Other terms like have too, like "buck" for harvest, even though in the real world that is not one of its definitions.

3732659
I think you're missing the point, and it seems like you're sort of defending your point just to avoid being wrong at this stage.

The issue is not that RL ponies/horses have a clear cutoff point that somehow directly translates to marshmallow cartoon quadrupeds.

The point is that "filly" and "colt" have a meaning in English, the language we're all communicating in and writing fanfics in. The audience understands the words to mean a certain thing. These words carry a connotation to them, because of that meaning, that they refer to immature, underage equins.

As I pointed out already, there was a horrid stereotype applied to homosexuals that still persists among bigots today, though I like to think that mindset as a whole is dying off, that homosexuals = pedophiles. Making a connection between filly (young child girl) and fooler as the default term for a homosexual female is a poor choice.

While you can try to claim canon support for your use of filly/colt to represent ponies who are not necessarily young kids... all of your examples are of young kids. Even Applejack, who hadn't earned her cutie mark yet at that point, was a young kid. Cheerilee's students are young kids. The CMC are young kids.

The only point you brought up that was supportive of your point was that of the quinceanara being for girls turning 16. I'll grant that one. It isn't hard fast that either side is 100% right. I just think that the reasons for not using the term outweight the reasons to do so. I think the reasons for using the term as a negative one outweigh the reasons for using it in a neutral or positive manner.

By all means, if you want to write some story that goes into sufficient depth to explore the Equestrian etymology of the word, and really sell it's being a positive term, knock yourself out. That doesn't change the fact that in many fics it is thrown around without any forethought, and I'm sorry but I consider a fic badly written if it has too many poorly thought out and poorly executed elements in it. One of those that would weight a fic toward that verdict is using "fillyfooler" or "coltcuddler" as positive terms, and simply expects me to accept it as such.

3732659 Actually, it seems that most sources estimate the CMC as being somewhere around 10 to 12 human years old, or 2 pony years old. Laura Faust at one time claimed that Apple Bloom was 7, but I think they've aged her up a bit since then. As ponies, they could still be called yearlings, or pre-teens as humans gp. Also, the Cute-ceanara party seems to have nothing to do with age, but only gaining a cutie mark. Otherwise, the notion that the Apple Clan gets their cutie mark later than most ponies would somehow mean that they age more slowly? That does not make a lot of sense. But the CMC and the other ponies in their class, cutie mark or no, are still called fillies, and the grade of school they seem to be stuck in would show that they are definitely not full blown teenagers let alone adults.

3732982
3732915
3732659 Okay now this is really getting out of hand. Post is over 2 years old and I was ranting, come on people.

Also here's my opinion. One, does no one remember the announcer pony from the wonder bolts episode back in season 1, he says "Hello fillies and gentle colts" meaning that in that, and what can only be guessed other social situations filly = female presenting pony, colt = male presenting pony. And yes the point is to sound derogatory, but then it was reclaimed. Much like the words dyke, butch, fag sissy, queer. Or that's how I read it. Anyway, 2 days before I lock. Get in your last opinions.

3740335 Well I suppose the only thing I have left to say is that terms like 'filly' and 'gentlecolt' have apparently different meanings to different writers on MLP: FiM, so I suppose there will never be universal agreement on terminology they use. I really doubt that any of them throw around such words with any kind of bad intent. In the end, my opinions are my own, but if I've made any of you think about what I've said, then my work here is done.

2805603

technically griffins have claws, not hands.

oops sorry.....