Hey Everyone long time no post, after some thought I decided to delete stories that are sexually focused from the list. In short, any clop.

I wanted to let you all know a few days before I do so.

There is a difference between pornography and stories with explicit content. Because of my unwillingness to review the content the quality isn't there.

Any stories that have explicit content must have it clearly labeled and be easy to skip to remain on the list.

I will also be taking some time to review all the stories rated mature. I will also hit-up the submissions folder for a time.

Please let me know your thoughts or questions. To be clear, my decision on this is final.

Based

Thank you. I want to find mature stories that isn’t so mature but not like that!

Perhaps putting them into their own subfolder, rather than removing them completely.

I feel like changing the acceptance rules this far in when it's not a changed legality or site wide rule is a bit much.

Gives people the means to navigate and find more mature stuff that isn't clop, while still keeping the actually good clop around for those that do want to find it.

7852935
This.

7852935

7852936
Unfortunately I have no means to confirm what is 'good' clop.

If we are using the same definitions then I'm not sure it exists.

7852935
There is no such thing. Clop is degenerative to both the mind and soul, and while I do not blame one for falling into a hole but calling the hole a good thing is degenerative.

7852942
You are exaggerating humans will always do porn
and degenerative to who? Fictional non existing characters?
Because we can considerate a lot of modern stuff degenerative to the mind and the soul even more in modern times but we can’t generalize like that

I can absolutely understand that the admin might want “outright porn” out of a place that he considers a good stories compilation
If someone truly wants to save them then take the time to ask for a list (because i bet that the admin would provide it without to much problem) and create some kind of separate group

7852946
I wouldn't mind.

7852938
Well, if it would qualify for this group, then it is likely to be 'good'. Admittedly, since every submission is subject to admin review before acceptance, it makes whether sexually focussed fics are acceptable a bit nebulous at best.
7852942
Hey, I never said whether it was a moral thing or not, that isn't the point of the conversation. One can still consider the writing involved to be quality or not, regardless of the subject covered.

7852949
My issue is with determining the 'qualify'. I have strong doubts anything does. If the explicit content is for the purpose of arousal then I can't really call it a story. Its what I'd call clop and isn't what this group is about.

I'm also just unwilling to read explicit material, so I have no means to quality check if someone else is approving.

I know for a fact that many of the fics currently approved do not meet any definition of a 'good' story.

7852930

This fandom is not as lively as it used to be. If someone creates Restrictions for free creativity, then it rejects even more users.

You can do what you think is acceptable for you personally.

I assure you that other groups are doing quite well to contain stories of relevant mature content.

This site is already on the verge of extinction...

7852953
That may be so, but the goal of this list is to collect good HIE stories. I can't reconcile that goal with content whose purpose is to stimulate.

Let the horny run free my fellow humans..

7852962
You asked for thoughts and questions, I did so. But ultimately it is the admins of this group that determine what actually happens here.

Rename the group to the Stargazer List then

Assessing the quality of literature is subjective. Some people will like things and some people will dislike things.

You're the admin and have the right to run the group however you like.

But if you're curating stories to meet a specific tone and quality to what you consider good, it doesn't speak for the whole community and should be relabeled as such.

Please let me know your thoughts or questions. To be clear, my decision on this is final.

Why ask for feedback at all?

So just change the name of the group and do whatever you want with the content.. You're not the sole arbiter of what constitutes good HIE so the name shouldn't suggest that there's more than one point of view involved.

You've already made up your mind, any invitation for further 'discussion' is just a poor attempt to appear reasonable.

7852930
Sexually focused content literally keeps this site alive. Literally some of the most popular groups and stories has sexually focused content.

7852930
Well done.
All that garbage does is destroy souls.

*rubs eyes* it’s too early for this.

Toss the current material in a sub folder, and enact these rules on stories going forward. But this is gonna be messy

The decision seems rather arbitrary. Why now after so long?

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

If you are being serious, to answer the question in that image, yes, you are being a massive one.

7852930

Why this all of a sudden? Has this mysteriously become a problem after six years of this group's existence, and I somehow didn't notice?

I genuinely don't understand what the issue is.

7852938
By that same logic, there's no way to confirm what is and isn't "good" fanfiction. Art is one of the most subjective things in existence.

Personally, I'd say that the submission rules are good enough to judge by. So long as it's written competently and has plenty of upvotes, then that should be good enough to go off of.

7852962
Stargazer, the purpose of all narrative storytelling is to "stimulate."

Are you just trying to avoid saying, "I hate eroticism?"

7852946
The funny thing is, there's never actually been any sort of study that confirmed that consuming porn has negative effects. Except in the tiny amount of extreme cases where literal addiction occurs; which is something that doesn't happen to 99% of the people who consume porn.

So... In other words, 7852942's stance is objectively wrong.

7852986
When I created the group it was for my personal use and those I wanted to share the few 'Good' Hie with. I never expected it to become big but I'm glad to have helped people.

'Good' has never been an objective standard. It's always been an opinion. This includes things I don't personally like but can step back and say is well put together or my previous administration could. For becoming an admin I would ask they review three stories minimum telling me what they thought of them. We'd discuss and get close to the same definition of 'good'.

I've tried in the pass to set quality controls for sexual content and was able to keep on the same page with admins about it. However it came to my attention more than once that some admins had started using a different definition for 'good' to include stories whose sole focus was clop. I have found no means to correct those past mistakes without reviewing the content personally. Something I'm unwilling to do.

As to why I adked for feedback. I may be resolute with this decision but people deserve to be able to express their frustration with it to me to me and get an honest answer.

Since your mind is already made up, most thoughts or questions I'd have seem pointless. Instead of feeling at home, you're almost making me feel like I am at work. There they have asked for employee opinions but generally ignore them - even when the opinions and well reasoned objections are overwhelming a certain way.

Only slightly positive I see is the few days notice instead of doing it and then announcing it after the fact.

7852996
It's already mostly in a subfolder but I can’t say it it's good or not. I know some large portion isnt based on past experiences.

7853010
I wasn't but I don't think we mean it in the same way. Waffling on this for a few years was my mistake.

7853006
The standards set out long ago aren't much different from this. Stories were supposed to be story focused with explicit material a necessary part of the whole. It was never meant to include stories that said content was a goal.

I've been unable to keep to that standard though as I have been unwilling to do any quality control of it personally. Several previous admins changed the standard with sole discretion I'm sad to say.

7852978
You are free. I just am unwilling to assess quality.

7852981
Yes, I just wanted to give yall the chance to give feedback. You deserve that.

7853043
Sounds you named this group wrong then.

7853040

The funny thing is, there's never actually been any sort of study that confirmed that consuming porn has negative effects. Except in the tiny amount of extreme cases where literal addiction occurs; which is something that doesn't happen to 99% of the people who consume porn.

Gee, it's almost like the Trillion dollar porn industry is making sure that people think that porn is completely safe with no negative repercussions whatsoever.

7853048
Yeah, it was. You should have just banned any mature content from the start.

7852991
There has been more than one point of view but the whole time I've set the standard of 'good' for the group. Having an objective standard of good for something like stories is impossible.

What I can say is I've added stories I thought were good but didn't like reading. Good is usually concerning 3 factors. That being Narrative coherence, a hooking quality and Grammer legibility. None of these need to be perfect with grammar being limited to just readability. Indeed You can have one be terrible and we would still include it if the other two were great.

7853056
"Indeed You can have one be terrible and we would still include it if the other two were great."
So then what is wrong with the stories you want to get rid of? By your own standards they should be fine.

7853054
Y'know, the problem with citing a conspiracy theory as evidence is that it doesn't actually prove your original point.

It's just that now you have to prove that porn damages you mentally, and you have to prove that there's a conspiracy to keep that information secret.

7853040 No it's always been a problem and I've tried to resolve it in the past. It's not a easy decision for me but the standard has always been that the story must have clop as a small nessasry part of a larger story.

I've failed to maintain that standard and am unwilling to personally review sexual content.

As for his statements I don't use that as a standard.

7853061

No it's always been a problem and I've tried to resolve it in the past.

Well again, this isn't a problem I've ever noticed.

What even is the "problem?"

(I) am unwilling to personally review sexual content.

Ah.

Well, the simple solution in my eye would be to just get an admin who is willing to review sexual content.

I mean, the group says that the only admins are you and Vul. That's a lot of work for two people; especially if you both dislike erotic content.

Do what you want, man. This is your group.

It just seems to me like this problem you've got is far from unsolveable.

7853061
Again, should have just banned any and all stories with such content from the start, Even if it was just one chapter our of twenty. Then this issue wouldn't be a thing.

7853060
Oh, so you mean like how the "Scientific Community" silences anyone who goes against the dogma of Climate Change.

Oh, and for anyone who's super booty-blasted over this decision, keep in mind that there are other groups on this site dedicated to archiving quality erotic stories.

This won't be the end of the world.

I dunno if it's really appropriate for me to be plugging for other groups in this thread. Just try looking up "mature," "clop," and other such terms in the groups tab at the top of the site.
7853074
Okie dokie.

The obvious starting point is High Quality Mature Fiction. That group is functionally the same as this one, except that it hosts clop in general rather than HiE stories.

Also, the standard Clopfics group has a folder specifically for the highest upvoted stories, called "Cream of the Clop."

Beyond that, I can only suggest doing your own sleuthing to find groups that are suitable for your needs. You can also try making your own group, if you don't find any that are satisfactory.

7853058
Having clop wasn't one of the three qualify standards for 'good' I referred to.

It's now part of the other things we exclude. Such as prosuicidal, pedophilic, misanthropic, pro communist, pro theocratic and pro fascist material.

7853044
I feel that and I don't like being on the other side of It. I should have insisted on this year's ago when I was with my other admins but they and I agreed we could keep some standard with the content.

That has failed and I am sorry but I can't in good conscience keep it there when It's not been held to the same standards.

7853067
"Narrative coherence, a hooking quality and Grammer legibility."
Even just clop stories can have these.

7853062
I thought so too but multiple times I would bring in an admin for that content and they would skew the standards set.

It's difficult finding someone who is willing to read it but only review based on the standards we had for 'good'. I wont confirm their quality so I'm stuck. I can only change the standard.

7853063
You are right. That's why I'm 'retarded'..

7853066
Please go ahead and plug.

7853072
So basically you don't trust anyone.
Really might as well just rename the group, like one person already mentioned.

7853053
Nor sure how. There are stories that I find unknowable on here but I still think are good. It a specialty group.

7853070
Depending on your definition of clop yes.