My God ladies and gentlemen, have we really come down this far? Have we as a nation really fallen to the point where we ARE infringing on the first amendment?

3619629 ...

Is there really any surprise?

I think somebody accidentally reprinted 1984 with the title "Guidebook to Governing" at some point.

No honestly, we're surrounded by coward ostriches and sheep who would rather stick their heads in the sand, or follow whoever can give the most "Inspiring" speech (or whoever's the most politically correct).

Even if it leads them off a cliff.

All of our rights are basically gone, sure we can own some rifles, but have you taken a look around? We've already fallen, journalists and bystanders arrested for filming the Ministry o- sorry, Police breaking into somebody's house with automatic weapons. It's not happening, it's basically happened.

3619970 It's so incredibly sad that it is happening. I can't remember who said it, but we're basically at that point where we're not quite able to shoot the bastards, and it's too late try and fix the system.

3620213 Exactly. Whatever armaments we could scrounge up would pale in comparison to a predator drone, APCs and the government's way of getting around posse comitatus. The system itself is trash, we've shifted from a republic (which is still sub-optimal but better than the tyranny of the majority we've got today.).

3619629

Ted Cruz starts his speech with a bunch of misleading crap, trying to make it sound like we as a nation are not engaged in active discussions and diplomacy concerning the situation with Ukraine, with the child refugees from Mexico (who the GOP want to throw back to the wolves in their native country, where they can be - and in fact have been - killed while fleeing cartel violence), and so on. I couldn't get past the first minute without cringing, and I'm not going to watch the whole near-hour of video.

Is it any wonder that Ted Cruz had to host the speech on his own channel? Is it any wonder that despite no interest in conspiracy videos, that's what popped up next to this as "related" on youtube?

Why do you buy into this guy's bullshit?

3693901 lol k

3693995

Kek.

3619629
If I wanted to watch an hour of a retard drooling, I'd watch Of Mice and Men again.

Tell me his main points.

3694294 Nope, you'll have to watch it if you actually care about the subject. Which I'm sure you don't. :)

3695503
k

If you really care about my thoughts on the subject, then you'll read and analyze all of the following. But I'm sure you don't care enough about AMERICAN LIBERTY.

riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle
and Environs. Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passencore
rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of
Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer's
rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Laurens County's
gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice
from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet,
though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not
yet, though all's fair in vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone
nathandjoe. Rot a peck of pa's malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by
arclight and rory end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the
aquaface.
The fall
(bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntro
varrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!) of a once wallstrait
oldparr is retaled early in bed and later on life down through all christian
minstrelsy. The great fall of the offwall entailed at such short notice the
pftjschute of Finnegan, erse solid man, that the humptyhillhead of
humself prumptly sends an unquiring one well to the west in quest of
his tumptytumtoes: and their upturnpikepointandplace is at the knock
out in the park where oranges have been laid to rust upon the green
since devlinsfirst loved livvy.
What clashes here of wills gen wonts, oystrygods gaggin fishygods!
Brékkek Kékkek Kékkek Kékkek! Kóax Kóax Kóax! Ualu Ualu Ualu!
Quaouauh! Where the Baddelaries partisans are still out to mathmaster Malachus Micgranes and the Verdons catapelting the camibalistics out
of the Whoyteboyce of Hoodie Head. Assiegates and boomeringstroms.
Sod's brood, be me fear! Sanglorians, save! Arms apeal with larms,
appalling. Killykillkilly: a toll, a toll. What chance cuddleys, what
cashels aired and ventilated! What bidimetoloves sinduced by what
tegotetabsolvers! What true feeling for their's hayair with what strawng
voice of false jiccup! O here here how hoth sprowled met the duskt the
father of fornicationists but, (O my shining stars and body!) how hath
fanespanned most high heaven the skysign of soft advertisement! But
was iz? Iseut? Ere were sewers? The oaks of ald now they lie in peat yet
elms leap where askes lay. Phall if you but will, rise you must: and none
so soon either shall the pharce for the nunce come to a setdown secular
phoenish.
Bygmester Finnegan, of the Stuttering Hand, freemen's maurer,
lived in the broadest way immarginable in his rushlit toofarback for
messuages before joshuan judges had given us numbers or Helviticus
committed deuteronomy (one yeastyday he sternely struxk his tete in a
tub for to watsch the future of his fates but ere he swiftly stook it out
again, by the might of moses, the very water was eviparated and all the
guenneses had met their exodus so that ought to show you what a
pentschanjeuchy chap he was!) and during mighty odd years this man of
hod, cement and edifices in Toper's Thorp piled buildung supra
buildung pon the banks for the livers by the Soangso. He addle liddle
phifie Annie ugged the little craythur. Wither hayre in honds tuck up your part inher. Oftwhile balbulous, mithre ahead, with goodly trowel in
grasp and ivoroiled overalls which he habitacularly fondseed, like
Haroun Childeric Eggeberth he would caligulate by multiplicables the
alltitude and malltitude until he seesaw by neatlight of the liquor
wheretwin 'twas born, his roundhead staple of other days to rise in
undress maisonry upstanded (joygrantit!), a waalworth of a skyerscape
of most eyeful hoyth entowerly, erigenating from next to nothing and
celescalating the himals and all, hierarchitectitiptitoploftical, with a
burning bush abob off its baubletop and with larrons o'toolers clittering
up and tombles a'buckets clottering down.
Of the first was he to bare arms and a name: Wassaily Booslaeugh
of Riesengeborg. His crest of huroldry, in vert with ancillars, troublant,
argent, a hegoak, poursuivant, horrid, horned. His scutschum fessed,
with archers strung, helio, of the second. Hootch is for husbandman
handling his hoe. Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister
Finnagain! Comeday morm and, O, you're vine! Sendday's eve and, ah,
you're vinegar! Hahahaha, Mister Funn, you're going to be fined again!
What then agentlike brought about that tragoady thundersday this
municipal sin business? Our cubehouse still rocks as earwitness to the
thunder of his arafatas but we hear also through successive ages that
shebby choruysh of unkalified muzzlenimiissilehims that would
blackguardise the whitestone ever hurtleturtled out of heaven. Stay us
wherefore in our search for tighteousness, O Sustainer, what time we
rise and when we take up to toothmick and before we lump down upown our leatherbed and in the night and at the fading of the stars! For
a nod to the nabir is better than wink to the wabsanti. Otherways
wesways like that provost scoffing bedoueen the jebel and the jpysian
sea. Cropherb the crunchbracken shall decide. Then we'll know if the
feast is a flyday. She has a gift of seek on site and she allcasually ansars
helpers, the dreamydeary. Heed! Heed! It may half been a missfired
brick, as some say, or it mought have been due to a collupsus of his
back promises, as others looked at it. (There extand by now one
thousand and one stories, all told, of the same). But so sore did abe ite
ivvy's holired abbles, (what with the wallhall's horrors of rollsrights,
carhacks, stonengens, kisstvanes, tramtrees, fargobawlers, autokinotons,
hippohobbilies, streetfleets, tournintaxes, megaphoggs, circuses and
wardsmoats and basilikerks and aeropagods and the hoyse and the
jollybrool and the peeler in the coat and the mecklenburk bitch bite at
his ear and the merlinburrow burrocks and his fore old porecourts, the
bore the more, and his blightblack workingstacks at twelvepins a dozen
and the noobibusses sleighding along Safetyfirst Street and the
derryjellybies snooping around Tell-No-Tailors' Corner and the fumes
and the hopes and the strupithump of his ville's indigenous
romekeepers, homesweepers, domecreepers, thurum and thurum in
fancymud murumd and all the uproor from all the aufroofs, a roof for
may and a reef for hugh butt under his bridge suits tony) wan warning
Phill filt tippling full. His howd feeled heavy, his hoddit did shake.
(There was a wall of course in erection) Dimb! He stottered from the latter. Damb! he was dud. Dumb! Mastabatoom, mastabadtomm, when
a mon merries his lute is all long. For whole the world to see.
Shize? I should shee! Macool, Macool, orra whyi deed ye diie? of a
trying thirstay mournin? Sobs they sighdid at Fillagain's chrissormiss
wake, all the hoolivans of the nation, prostrated in their consternation
and their duodisimally profusive plethora of ululation. There was
plumbs and grumes and cheriffs and citherers and raiders and cinemen
too. And the all gianed in with the shoutmost shoviality. Agog and
magog and the round of them agrog. To the continuation of that
celebration until Hanandhunigan's extermination! Some in kinkin
corass, more, kankan keening. Belling him up and filling him down.
He's stiff but he's steady is Priam Olim! 'Twas he was the dacent
gaylabouring youth. Sharpen his pillowscone, tap up his bier!
E'erawhere in this whorl would ye hear sich a din again? With their
deepbrow fundigs and the dusty fidelios. They laid him brawdawn
alanglast bed. With a bockalips of finisky fore his feet. And a
barrowload of guenesis hoer his head. Tee the tootal of the fluid hang
the twoddle of the fuddled, O!
Hurrah, there is but young gleve for the owl globe wheels in view
which is tautaulogically the same thing. Well, Him a being so on the
flounder of his bulk like an overgrown babeling, let wee peep, see, at
Hom, well, see peegee ought he ought, platterplate. Hum! From
Shopalist to Bailywick or from ashtun to baronoath or from
Buythebanks to Roundthehead or from the foot of the bill to ireglint's eye he calmly extensolies. And all the way (a horn!) from fiord to fjell
his baywinds' oboboes shall wail him rockbound (hoahoahoah!) in
swimswamswum and all the livvylong night, the delldale dalppling
night, the night of bluerybells, her flittaflute in tricky trochees (O
carina! O carina!) wake him. With her issavan essavans and her
patterjackmartins about all them inns and ouses. Tilling a teel of a tum,
telling a toll of a teary turty Taubling. Grace before Glutton. For what
we are, gifs a gross if we are, about to believe. So pool the begg and
pass the kish for crawsake. Omen. So sigh us. Grampupus is fallen
down but grinny sprids the boord. Whase on the joint of a desh?
Finfoefom the Fush. Whase be his baken head? A loaf of Singpantry's
Kennedy bread. And whase hitched to the hop in his tayle? A glass of
Danu U'Dunnell's foamous olde Dobbelin ayle. But, lo, as you would
quaffoff his fraudstuff and sink teeth through that pyth of a flowerwhite
bodey behold of him as behemoth for he is noewhemoe. Finiche! Only a
fadograph of a yestern scene. Almost rubicund Salmosalar, ancient
fromout the ages of the Agapemonides, he is smoltenin our mist,
woebecanned and packt away. So that meal's dead off for summan,
schlook, schlice and goodridhirring.
Yet may we not see still the brontoichthyan form outlined
aslumbered, even in our own nighttime by the sedge of the troutling
stream that Bronto loved and Brunto has a lean on. Hiccubat edilis.
Apud libertinam parvulam. Whatif she be in flags or flitters, reekierags
or sundyechosies, with a mint of mines or beggar a pinnyweight. Arrah, sure, we all love little Anny Ruiny, or, we mean to say, lovelittle Anna
Rayiny, when unda her brella, mid piddle med puddle, she ninnygoes
nannygoes nancing by. Yoh! Brontolone slaaps, yoh snoores. Upon
Benn Heather, in Seeple Isout too. The cranic head on him, caster of his
reasons, peer yuthner in yondmist. Whooth? His clay feet, swarded in
verdigrass, stick up starck where he last fellonem, by the mund of the
magazine wall, where our maggy seen all, with her sisterin shawl. While
over against this belles' alliance beyind Ill Sixty, ollollowed ill! bagsides
of the fort, bom, tarabom, tarabom, lurk the ombushes, the site of the
lyffing-in-wait of the upjock and hockums. Hence when the clouds roll
by, jamey, a proudseye view is enjoyable of our mounding's mass, now
Wallinstone national museum, with, in some greenish distance, the
charmful waterloose country and the two quitewhite villagettes who
hear show of themselves so gigglesomes minxt the follyages, the
prettilees! Penetrators are permitted into the museomound free. Welsh
and the Paddy Patkinses, one shelenk! Redismembers invalids of old
guard find poussepousse pousseypram to sate the sort of their butt. For
her passkey supply to the janitrix, the mistress Kathe. Tip.
This the way to the museyroom. Mind your hats goan in! Now yiz
are in the Willingdone Museyroom. This is a Prooshious gunn. This is a
ffrinch. Tip. This is the flag of the Prooshious, the Cap and Soracer.
This is the bullet that byng the flag of the Prooshious. This is the ffrinch
that fire on the Bull that bang the flag of the Prooshious. Saloos the
Crossgunn! Up with your pike and fork! Tip. (Bullsfoot! Fine!) This is the triplewon hat of Lipoleum. Tip. Lipoleumhat. This is the
Willingdone on his same white harse, the Cokenhape. This is the big
Sraughter Willingdone, grand and magentic in his goldtin spurs and his
ironed dux and his quarterbrass woodyshoes and his magnate's gharters
and his bangkok's best and goliar's goloshes and his pulluponeasyan
wartrews. This is his big wide harse. Tip. This is the three lipoleum
boyne grouching down in the living detch. This is an inimyskilling
inglis, this is a scotcher grey, this is a davy, stooping. This is the bog
lipoleum mordering the lipoleum beg. A Gallawghurs argaumunt. This
is the petty lipoleum boy that was nayther bag nor bug. Assaye, assaye!
Touchole Fitz Tuomush. Dirty MacDyke. And Hairy O'Hurry. All of
them arminus-varminus. This is Delian alps. This is Mont Tivel, this is
Mont Tipsey, this is the Grand Mons Injun. This is the crimealine of the
alps hooping to sheltershock the three lipoleums. This is the jinnies with
their legahorns feinting to read in their handmade's book of stralegy
while making their war undisides the Willingdone. The jinnies is a
cooin her hand and the jinnies is a ravin her hair and the Willingdone git
the band up. This is big Willingdone mormorial tallowscoop
Wounderworker obscides on the flanks of the jinnies. Sexcaliber
hrosspower. Tip. This is me Belchum sneaking his phillippy out of his
most Awful Grimmest Sunshat Cromwelly. Looted. This is the jinnies'
hastings dispatch for to irrigate the Willingdone. Dispatch in thin red
lines cross the shortfront of me Belchum. Yaw, yaw, yaw! Leaper
Orthor. Fear siecken! Fieldgaze thy tiny frow. Hugacting. Nap. That
was the tictacs of the jinnies for to fontannoy the Willingdone. Shee, shee, shee! The jinnies is jillous agincourting all the lipoleums. And the
lipoleums is gonn boycottoncrezy onto the one Willingdone. And the
Willingdone git the band up. This is bode Belchum, bonnet to busby,
breaking his secred word with a ball up his ear to the Willingdone. This
is the Willingdone's hurold dispitchback. Dispitch desployed on the
regions rare of me Belchum. Salamangra! Ayi, ayi, ayi! Cherry jinnies.
Figtreeyou! Damn fairy ann, Voutre. Willingdone. That was the first
joke of Willingdone, tic for tac. Hee, hee, hee! This is me Belchum in
his twelvemile cowchooks, weet, tweet and stampforth foremost,
footing the camp for the jinnies. Drink a sip, drankasup, for he's as
sooner buy a guinness than he'd stale store stout. This is Rooshious
balls. This is a ttrinch. This is mistletropes. This is Canon Futter with
the popynose. After his hundred days' indulgence. This is the blessed.
Tarra's widdars! This is jinnies in the bonny bawn blooches. This is
lipoleums in the rowdy howses. This is the Willingdone, by the splinters
of Cork, order fire. Tonnerre! (Bullsear! Play!) This is camelry, this is
floodens, this is the solphereens in action, this is their mobbily, this is
panickburns. Almeidagad! Arthiz too loose! This is Willingdone cry.
Brum! Brum! Cumbrum! This is jinnies cry. Underwetter! Goat strip
Finnlambs! This is jinnies rinning away to their ousterlists dowan a
bunkersheels. With a nip nippy nip and a trip trippy trip so airy. For
their heart's right there. Tip. This is me Belchum's tinkyou tankyou
silvoor plate for citchin the crapes in the cool of his canister. Poor the
pay! This is the bissmark of the marathon merry of the jinnies they left
behind them. This is the Willingdone branlish his same marmorial tallowscoop SophyKey-Po for his royal divorsion on the rinnaway
jinnies. Gambariste della porca! Dalaveras fimmieras! This is the
pettiest of the lipoleums, Toffeethief, that spy on the Willingdone from
his big white harse, the Capeinhope. Stonewall Willingdone is an old
maxy montrumeny. Lipoleums is nice hung bushellors. This is hiena
hinnessy laughing alout at the Willingdone. This is lipsyg dooley
krieging the funk from the hinnessy. This is the hinndoo Shimar Shin
between the dooley boy and the hinnessy. Tip. This is the wixy old
Willingdone picket up the half of the threefoiled hat of lipoleums
fromoud of the bluddle filth. This is the hinndoo waxing ranjymad for a
bombshoob. This is the Willingdone hanking the half of the hat of
lipoleums up the tail on the buckside of his big white harse. Tip. That
was the last joke of Willingdone. Hit, hit, hit! This is the same white
harse of the Willingdone, Culpenhelp, waggling his tailoscrupp with the
half of a hat of lipoleums to insoult on the hinndoo seeboy. Hney, hney,
hney! (Bullsrag! Foul!) This is the seeboy, madrashattaras, upjump and
pumpim, cry to the Willingdone: Ap Pukkaru! Pukka Yurap! This is the
Willingdone, bornstable ghentleman, tinders his maxbotch to the
cursigan Shimar Shin. Basucker youstead! This is the dooforhim seeboy
blow the whole of the half of the hat of lipoleums off of the top of the
tail on the back of his big wide harse. Tip (Bullseye! Game!) How
Copenhagen ended. This way the museyroom. Mind your boots goan
out.
Phew!

3695503
3693901
3696193
For goodness' sake, cut the strawmen and the general immaturity! If this keeps up, I might have to lock this thread. How are we supposed to settle this if we just judge each other and just assume things about other people, and be rude to them? That goes for all of you, by the way. Please, this is for serious and civil discussion, not talking like hard-core gamers.

3696240
What strawmen?

3696344
You and USMC both accused each other of not caring, and misrepresented each other's actual viewpoints. I'm getting tired of this. I once allowed and even partook in this, but not anymore. For now on people should try to understand each other and their viewpoints. Not agreeing, just understanding.

And no more talking like hard-core gamers, it's getting really annoying.

3696367
I just echoed his contention back to show how silly and unhelpful it is.

misrepresented each other's actual viewpoints

No one even said anything about the other's viewpoints.

3696240 Dawg, I'm aggressive, I get yelled at; I'm not aggressive, I get yelled at. I say I won't spoon feed an answer to someone and that they would have to watch the video to get their own thoughts on it, I get yelled at. Sure I didn't say that, but still I shouldn't have to tell a grown ass person something because they didn't want to listen to what the speaker was saying because they deem them a "drooling retard". Come on man, I didn't even swear when I spoke.

3696193 If you believe I don't care enough about American Liberty, then you don't know anything about me. I will sacrifice everything I have for America and its people, and if it comes down to it, even my own life. Are you willing to do something for America or are you like many others who will not do anything to try and further our nation, excluding loss of life?

Now after reading all of Finnegan's Wake, and trying to analyze it I can truly say that I'm not drawing very much of a parallel from this fictional story to American liberty. I looked at interpretations from various people of certain passages and still did not find really anything that could be related to liberty. I saw there were mentions of bullets/guns, but that doesn't really go into liberty specifically. One sentence went "Apud libertinam parvulam", it seemed like Latin to me (kind of looked like "liberty" so I checked it out. It came back as "With a little Libertines", and if this is truly Latin and I was correct, then it means a person who essentially acts without morals, or a person who rejects accepted opinions in terms of religion. Honestly it was wrought with shit that didn't make sense because I haven't studied much of older English, so it essentially went over my head. Now if I missed something, I'm sorry, but I read the entire thing.

3696240

Why did you put a reply tag to me in that post? I am not engaging in any of the behaviours you accuse me of.

3696524

Come on man, I didn't even swear when I spoke.

Let's examine that statement for a moment.

drooling retard

This is mine, albeit inaccurately quoted. While crude, it is not swearing.

grown ass person

This is yours, and it is indeed swearing.

There is no call for me to watch Ted Cruz babble for an hour unless you can adequately provide a reason why it is 1. relevant to the discussion at hand and 2. important. If you can not do that, then your assertion that I "must" watch it is as baseless as my own satirical one.

3696689 If you don't want to listen to what the guy has to say because you simply don't like him, do you ACTUALLY care about the subject? Are you actually wanting to find out what the content of the subject is, if so, watch the video? If you don't REALLY want to watch the video and you don't want to hear the content, then don't even comment.

3696475
What about that poem? Isn't that based on how you think he views things?
3696524
You know, to save a lot of time and trouble, I'll just simply say that the last word isn't always the winning one.
3696627
Not all of them, true, but you still were kind of rude.

I suggest you all distance yourselves from this for a while. Truth be told, I hope for peace between us all and have even found things to like about you all, but I'm also still getting sick of these squabbles in general. Seriously, I know this isn't the worst one, but the fact it could be worse is dis-reassuring. I'm going to change the rules so that these are toned down a bit. Maybe we can be more civil if we keep our distance and come back with some steam blown!

3696981 Dude, I wasn't even here for like three weeks until yesterday.

3696981

you still were kind of rude.

Not to anyone involved in the discussion. Arguably so towards Ted Cruz, but whatever.

"Confronting" and "being rude" are different things.

3696993
I see that, and you have a point there; this is happening less and less, and with less aggression, so I suppose I don't really need to post a huge rule-change. But this has happened before anyway, and has resumed itself yesterday. Not ultra-reassuring, especially since some of your remarks occasionally border on ad hominem. Maybe if some of the people and the posts here really irritate you that much, you should just walk out of these things every now and then. I mean, think about it, reality is reality, it can't be re-written, so if you're right, then you're right and nobody can change that and are missing out if they don't see it, and therefore you're the real winner, so there'd be no shame in being the first to walk out for a little while. If you're wrong, then you're wrong and it's best not to keep it alive. Either way, walking out least for a little while won't make you the loser. Besides, when I made this group, I was kind of hoping for at least as many simple discussions as I did for these debates, if not more, meaning that "winning" and "losing" shouldn't always be so important.

3697026
Hm, true this time, actually, though it still felt like a fragment of that was aimed at USMC, especially that last thought.

3696821
Oh hey, what do you know? I looked around and found someone who could actually be bothered to summarize that one hour bore-a-thon. Surprise, surprise: it's not about free speech at all. Ted Cruz is sad because people want to fight corporate cronyism by limiting large corporations' abilities to buy the favor of politicians by making massive campaign contributions accompanied by a gentleman's agreement that the elected official cut them some slack.

HOW HORRIFYING!!!
AMERICA IS DOOMED!

And special interest lobbies like the NRA and the NAACP won't be allowed to tell their members how they should vote anymore. That's just truly heartbreaking: the thought that individuals will have to think for themselves and vote with their heads. Truly, I am aghast. I am shocked and appalled, good sir. Thank you for opening my eyes to this trag-
Oh wait, no, you did nothing but insult me.
Never mind.

3697054
While some of that is true, the way you're putting it to USMC isn't very nice. Look, why can't we just have a simple discussion about this?

3697066
I tried, but I'm a very complex person.

3696193
I actually sort of enjoyed that read. , and
3619629
Infringing on the first amendment is news to you?

3693901 Let's start at the beginning.

It is pitiful what is happening in Mexico. It is worse that it is being used as an excuse to import illegal aliens into this country en masse. Adult Mexicans, responsible and culpable for their actions, basically threw their children over the fence en masse because Obama promised them free amnesty, no questions asked--- in violation of our nation's laws and in crass contempt for those who have patiently, lawfully entered.
Already these "poor children" have gotten out and committed gangland style crimes (poor little Pedro is sixteen going on seventeen and has gang tattoos up his arms. Surprise.) And the rest, having bypassed quarantine entirely by presidential fiat, have caused outbreaks of diseases everywhere the government has smuggled them. This is what happens when unscreened illegals pour into the country. The immigration policies aren't just there to make you a sad panda; they're there to prevent exactly this sort of thing by screening out violent criminals and quarantining those carrying disease.

It is tiresome that you have to explain, as if to a child, that a person who comes in by the front door is trustworthy, but a man who climbs over the back fence is up to no good.

And if you still want to cry crocodile tears for the poor illegals, cry 'em over the fact that these illegals come into the country and end up working for pittance wages, with no legal protections, and in constant fear of being ratted out by their "bosses" to the border patrol. Compassionate people don't support the smuggling of SLAVE LABOR into this country.

3739068

You're an embarrassment to your own religion and political views, though. It can't feel good being dependent on social security while simultaneously hating its existence and all the "leeches" who are supposedly bleeding the country dry.

3739068
Now now, let's play nice! Please be polite to other members, even if they're being a little crass.

While sometimes these things you mention are totally true, other times they just want work, especially if they come together as families or as young adults sending money to their families, which many of them are doing; in these cases, the real problem is that America has so many socialized services it's hard to support them and people who were already there! My own solution for those who just want work from this country is to actually decrease the number and intensity of socialized services so that it would be easier for the country to support them and the people who've lived here already as well.

But again, you have a point, because to compensate for our difficulty supporting them, we compensate how? By reducing our socialization in our services like we probably should? Nope, currently, we compensate by means of paying them almost nothing and giving them almost no rights, and accuse people of being racist when we express concern for those who have nothing!

3620480
1)Actually, the armed American populace represents the largest armed force on the planet. Bigger, even, than our own armed forces by two or three times. And we are in possession of everything from pistols to crew served weapons-- to quote our enemies, "A gun behind every blade of grass."

2)Drones are shiny, but they're million-dollar toys. Bullets are cheap. Fertilizer and diesel fuel are even cheaper. There are people out there who can build machine guns out of plumbing parts.

3)America vs. the Viet Cong. Nuff said. This would not be an open battlefield, but a guerrilla war against natives in their own back yard. And we're not staffed by a bunch of middle easterners so backwards they think Allah will make infidel bullets swerve around them.

4)This all assumes that the armed forces, filled rank and file with the sons of the American heartland, will willingly turn their guns on their own families... rather than on their treasonous commanders.

This is not an approval of such violence, but a calculated assessment of our odds should a second American Revolution break out. It would be terrible and bloody, and the odds, by sheer numbers, would be in our favor. The only way an armed populace has ever been conquered by its own government is by first convincing them to give up and lay down their arms.

3619629 He nails it.
What is tragic is that our Congress has reached this point.
Why are we SURPRISED? We vote people into Congress who are thieves, liars and murderers, that have been chipping away at the right to free speech with various corrupt laws, and now we act surprised they want to eradicate it entirely?

Telling a man what speech he may or may not support with his money is the same as telling him what speech he may exercise.

Imagine the size of the solid steel knobs it takes to step up and challenge that.

Ted Cruz for president.

3739150 I would like to vote for Ted Cruz but hes a Canadian.

3739090 An embarrassment? Hardly. I spent every day of my working life paying taxes and social security; Even now I strive to earn my daily bread in whatever way I can... and ironically pay hundreds of dollars in taxes MONTHLY, right back to the government. This however is not the case for the vast majority on the receiving end of government entitlements.... who paid nothing into the system, and now receive cash on the barrelhead for it. Meanwhile they pay in lost ambition, opportunity and freedom for their place at the trough.... selling their birthright for a mess of pottage. The system bilks ALL of us, and buys the votes of many by way of bread, circuses, and phony sanctimony.

I am indeed on state financial aid... because the IRS has denuded me of thousands of dollars annually for nearly 4 years, and is even now demanding thousands more.. the only one who has any moral claim to the largesse of government are those that oppose it-- because they are the only ones trying to STOP its coercive system, and are as always the first victims of it. What little I might take back in financial aid I regard as reclamation of stolen money.

I would be a disgrace to my faith-- if I insisted that using government to coerce and steal from others was "charity." You call me hatemonger for saying "thou shalt not steal?" You call the plunder of the nation for bread and circuses "charity?" You espouse policies that have reduced me and thousands of others to standing in breadlines in the name of "compassion," and you call ME a hypocrite?

3739561

Well, I didn't call you a hatemonger, but I sure will now. Thanks, you adorable little hatemonger! And I say you're an embarrassment because a) you're an asshole, and seem proud of it at times; and b) a lot of Christians find your views similar in both content and facepalm-worthiness to the Westboro Baptists, who are widely considered an embarrassment to both the practice of law and to Christianity.

As for everything else...

You see, when I first talked to you, I tried to do so reasonably. You insulted me, deleted my posts, and blocked me. Now you jump in on a weeks-old comment, engage in a rant followed by a condescending spiel, and spew racist bullshit that no thinking human believes.

Then you somehow expect me to respect you, or at least your position.

I don't owe you anything, kid, and I will not indulge the bullshit you desire to spew at me discussion you desire to have. I'm not advocating for anything in my posts to you - I am refusing to consider you intelligent enough to have such a conversation in the first place.

Maybe one of these days, you'll grow up and learn not to rage, spew insults, and parrot disinformation from talking heads on TV as your first line of argument.

3739561
3739609
Will you guys just stop it? Some of these accusations strike me as almost baseless. Once again, taking one statement, and assuming you can judge all a person's values and character from it. That goes for both of you. Hasn't it occurred to you that sometimes people are just ignorant of the policies of some people? Just because someone has one or two opposing views, doesn't make them bad, just makes them either uninformed or you uninformed. It also sounds like this goes back to other groups. Sorry, but drama that's from one group should STAY in that group.

3740094 I judge him by what he has said, nothing more, nothing less.

3739232 Really? Didn't know that. A pity.

3740094 Oh there's little that's baseless with Ralph here. Long before the brony community even existed, he was up to this stuff in the furry community. His opinions are prolific and he spews them at every chance he gets. There's more "base" than you could begin to imagine.

Edit: To be clear, after he caused some trouble a while back, I noticed he had a personal website linked from his fimfic profile. I was shocked when I instantly recognized the "art" on the site. RHJunior, as he usually calls himself instead of this new ironic name of RealityCheck, was someone I ran across... wow, it had to be a little over 10 years ago, when I was first getting interested in the furry community. His behavior was bad enough that he left an impression. A quick search on that username will find a variety of forums and sites documenting and discussing his abusive and laughable behavior. So, baseless? Hardly.

3740094

If you wish to judge by activities in this group alone, then perhaps consider that "RealityCheck" jumped on a weeks-old post to spew his vitriol and insult people just for holding an opposing position. Also to circlejerk with people he sees as holding the same views, but that's another matter.

I do not refuse to discuss the topic with him because he disagrees with me (and you'll see how baseless such an accusation is by the fact that I disagree with people civilly all the time), I do it because he is acting extremely childish and was immediately aggressive and hostile towards me.

Furthermore, the point I made you must agree is valid - that starting off with venom, aggression, hostility, and condescension is not civil behaviour.

Also, Achron's right that this guy has a history of such behaviour that goes back to your infancy.

3740349
You mean this guy's probably lot older than 21 and has been telling this since he was in the furry community?

Okay, this is interesting.

3741196 No idea about older, but if he is that young, he was spouting crazy shit with extreme intensity from a very young age. (edit: his site says "forty-something") With a swath of ranting like that, he takes it with him wherever he goes. Sorta like you don't ignore someone punching you in the grocery store just because you see them later in a library. It would be unreasonable to expect you to "keep what happened in the grocery store over in the grocery store" wouldn't it?

3741174
3740115
Regardless of past, telling people that they're heartless or insults to their beliefs is still not a very mature way of dealing with this. I learned more about you two and your past together, and I can actually understand why it escalated to here, but it's still becoming less related to this thread and more personal, and I don't want to have to deal with or address personal grudges. If you will be so kind, drop this or take this outside.

And once again, no more talking like hard-core gamers: No terms like "circle-jerk", and no taunting people about crocodile-tears. No adult I know talks that way in the real world. This is a group for mature behavior, and no excuses about how you're returning the favor someone else paid you, you should be BETTER than the people you're against.

3620480 um, no. Not really.

Consider: if an armed populace is so impotent in the face of our military's epic might, why are they so utterly desperate to disarm said populace?

Submitted that the KNOWN number of gun owning civilians in the USA is, as I recall, double the size of the entire standing US military... And we're not all gormless rednecks with paw's shotgun, either. Private citizens have their hands on everything from handguns to belt-fed machine guns. The viet cong gave the American military sheer hell, and we're far better armed and equipped than some vietnamese peasant in a rice paddy.

3791361 Something that the average American lacks in comparison to good ole' Charlie, is the willingness to grab said weapons and shoot. The VC were motivated by the desire to get the American military (and those of other nations) out of their country- as it is many of those well armed people would simply fold over if a tank and an army platoon came rolling down their street.
Looking at just the guns won't be the answer, it's the people using those guns that matter, and honestly at the moment there aren't enough people who would really be willing to engage in a war against "their" government. If looking at merely the firepower available determined who would win, why weren't the VC and co. steamrolled by the gargantuan airpower of the US?
If there were more people who would be willing to take a real armed stand, I'd be the happiest person on this forum right now, but that isn't the case. Those guns can't pick themselves up and fight, they need people willing to use them, of which there aren't enough.

3791562 yeah, if you base your opinion of the average American on the people you see at Starbucks or Hot Topic. Look in flyover country and you'll see a different story.

I direct your attention to current events: a rancher in the midwest got screwed over by the feds-- or would have, but fellow ranchers showed up with guns in hand to blockade the feds. Elsewhere, private citizens are patrolling the border that the President refuses to defend. Still elsewhere, veterans defied police orders and standing guards to pull down barricades on a veterans' memorial. Americans ARE quite willing to defy their government, and make it stick.

That's the only reason we don't live in a police state already.

3793497 Very true. I completely forgot about the rancher and the militia members. Shame. On. Me.

And now that I'm remembering everything else I've read/seen, don't discount the South either. Good deal of people here who'd be willing too, considering how one of the militia groups that went to defend the rancher was from Florida, quite a ways.

3619629 I know this thread is old almost a year old, but in my opinion, the people and the people's rights always comes first. Anything else is irrelevant.