The Ponymarillion 20 members · 0 stories
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Sorry it's only chapter 1, I had an appointment I forgot about today. If for some reason you can't stand my voice, just watch with the sound muted. There may be a few small typos in the text, but I don't think they detract from the story. There's a bit of delay between the audio and the text, so I'll see what I can do about that in the upcoming chapters.

Ponyweed
Group Admin

Awesome! :pinkiesmile: < there should be a Pinkie eating popcorn emoticon

I'll see if anypony wants to follow along and discuss each part as we proceed... or after...
we could make each thread about a set of chapters and post the readthru and
discussion for those chapters in a single thread? Let me know what you think.

I'll wait to comment on the opening chapters until folks have a chance to read the prologue chapters.

However, the pony version which was done primarily on ponychan, is here in draft form. It's more of a "retranslation" of the Ainulindale than new material -- and was intended to set the tone that Tolkien's manuscript was "actually" a chronicle of the origin of the show, and that the Ponymarillion is the story of what "really" happened. As such it gets a lot less meta once you get past the creation story.

Like Ainulindale, the Elvish creation story, it's assumed to be a "separate document" from the Silmarillion, told to the Elves (princesses) by the angelic beings themselves. (Note also that under this approach, Tirek, Scorpan, and Discord are also semi-divine beings -- the Ainur, like Sauron or Gandalf -- or demonic, in the case of Tirek and some others).

Once you get past the creation chapters, it has to be told from the perspective of the historical ponies (or their descendants, the Mane Six) because then you're set within the prehistory of the show. Alternate canon, that is.

Originally I was gonna skip the creation story as untranslatable, but the approach of saying everything outside the ponyverse was created by the Earth writers and fans, a la Narnia or the Dark Tower series, appealed to the folks on ponychan --- based on the idea that, in the Pony version, Faust = Eru.

So I did these opening chapters as a "separately translated document", background material essentially.

So these first two "prologue" chapters, are told from the perspective of the alicorns (Elves), who were instructed by the "gods" themselves, on events outside the universe that they barely understood, as Tolkien points out in this chapter, and are "retranslated" from Tolkien as such.

Really the first two "story chapters" after that (from before ponies are born) are told from the same perspective, but fortunately the origin of ponies themselves differs markedly from Elves, so we may want to consolidate and rewrite them into the following two chapters (birth of the ponies, imprisonment of Tirek) in the pony version, into new chapters told from the perspective of the first ponies. This might add a touch of mystery to what is going on... the downside being we don't get to meet any ponies we know for several chapters in the absence of a framing device (vision?) which is a problem.

It's worth pointing out that in 6thMaster's fic, which is a straight crossover between the two worlds, the alicorns = the Ainur, and ponies = spirits from Earth, and Fëanor crosses over into FiM as an elf in pony form which is a slightly different take, set in the future, contemporary to events in FiM; corresponding to apocalyptic events in both worlds; whereas this fic is what the Crossover group calls an Assimilated Lore fic, similar to a Reimagining of the source material (simple ponification) but where the two stories are combined. So in this fic, the alicorns = the High Elves, and the beings more powerful such as Tirek and Discord (and their good counterparts) = the Ainur, and are supposed to be agents from outside the FiM universe, along with the sub-creator (as Tolkien calls it), Lauren Faust. In both fics, Tirek is "actually" Melkor.

Ponyweed
Group Admin

Anypony is welcome to share their thoughts on the reading of the story itself as we move along. :twilightsmile:

Edit -- I suppose mathwiz and I could get some discussion rolling, although he's probably busy this weekend. but if anypony is following please do let us know...

Ponyweed
Group Admin

Glossary comments --

Eru / Illúvatar -- good pronunciation on a lot of these. As folks may have noticed, Middle Earth has an omnipotent, behind-the-scenes creator god, whom Tolkien semi-identified with his beliefs (which is why he left all religion out of Middle-Earth, past this point, as he felt it wouldn't jibe to introduce his own beliefs into a fantasy story that has its own pantheon of demi-gods. He did obsess over relating obscure matters such as Elvish biological life cycle into his philosophical beliefs late in life, though.) In the pony version, Eru is identified with the "sub creator" Lauren Faust. Tolkien came up with the notion of a "sub-creator", but chose not to inject himself into the story in such fashion, since in his belief system, the "demi-urge" (the lesser creator, who seeks to create worlds of his own ex nihilo, without reference to prior thought) would have been the devil, who is not so subtly identified with Melkor / Morgoth. (Ironically, this common notion comes from Milton and William Blake, who being a mystic, both came up with their own "headcanon" for Lucifer in Paradise Lost and Songs of Innocence and Experience respectively.) The "sub-creator", in the literary philosophy of "mythopoeia" (invented by Tolkien -- rough translation: "geekery") instead tries to create fictional worlds within a real context, which is where we get stuff like the "story bible" written by Lauren Faust that supposedly contains all the secrets of FiM.

Ainur -- singular Ainu -- all the immortal spirits created by Eru at the dawn of time. Roughly, spirits or divine beings of various sorts.

Valar -- that subset of the Ainur who rule Middle-Earth. They are essentially divine (or "angelic beings".) they are the ones that went into Arda, which is Middle-Earth. Tolkien identified it with our Earth, in a fictional time period.

Eä -- the world that "is" -- i.e. the entire (fictional) universe housing Tolkien's mythology. Distinguished from the Void, a higher plane outside space and time, which presumably contains the "halls" of Illuvatar and the afterlife. (and/or eldritch abominations, as we shall see in a following chapter.) -- which is also distinguished from the "spirit world" where Elves go when they die, btw. So being cast into the Void is more extreme than being cast into the spirit world -- it means a character is not just dead, but his/her spirit has left the world and passed "beyond space and time", like Gandalf did in Fellowship. So, The Timeless Halls = The Void, or at least the part of the Void inhabited by the Ainur.

In Tolkien, as in Celtic myth, the "spirit world" is a separate plane parallel to the physical world, and Elves live in both, so they stay in the world even if their bodies are slain or wither away (with the idea being that the remaining elves eventually "faded away" into invisible kingdoms within the forest, the sort of Celtic elves you'd see in Hellboy II or The Secret of Kells).

It's also the world you go into when you put on a ring of invisibility, and it's the world of the undead (spirits which are kept forcibly animated).

Ainur live entirely within the spirit world and their bodies are merely physical manifestations -- like clothing -- although it consumes their inherent spiritual power for them to manipulate the physical world. Melkor ultimately spends much of his essence trying to corrupt the very fabric of Middle-Earth.

Arda = Earth, which is set within space (a sort of fantasy space, where the celestial bodies are controlled from below, as we'll see, like in FiM), beyond space lies the Void. However there is a door to the Void on the edge of the Undying Lands, known as the Door of Night. All of Eä = roughly, earth and the space around it. In the early Silmarillion, earth is still flat, with paradise on the west (it becomes round later). The cosmology of all this is intentionally hand-waved.

Aulë -- the "god" of craftsmen, gems, weavers, and the earth -- I can't say i'm 100% positive on Elvish prononciation --
but if you're wondering, I think OWL-eh or AWL-eh or OLL-eh works ... although a-OOL-eh probably isn't inaccurate.

Ulmo -- good pronunciation -- the "god" of the sea, obviously -- and of water.

Manwë -- the "lord" of the "good gods" or Valar, and the lord of the winds and sky. These are the only three Valar mentioned so far, note that they are all male... Even though one of the most powerful Valar is Manwë's "wife", Varda (also known as Elbereth Gilthoniel) -- the "goddess" of light and the stars -- more on her in the next chapter. This gender balance will be switched up, you might say, in the pony version. Mainly because I thought it would be fun and perhaps slightly illuminating to take the premise that FiM is a matriarchal world, and run with it. No, I won't be calling Manwë Womanlë, or Ulmo Shemo. ;) Good pronunciation here too btw.

The Secret Flame = The Flame Imperishable = basically the "spark of life" that Illuvatar uses to animate the world. In Tolkien's mythology, evil beings cannot create life of their own, only alter what others have made. (like a bad artist or fanfic writer, lol.) (looks to one side nervously) When Gandalf says he's a "Servant of the Secret Fire" this is what he's referring to (that he is a Maia, a lesser member of the Ainur). "Wielder of the Flame of Anor" means he is a fire spirit, one who has an elemental ring of fire (one of the Elvish Rings). Anor is the "good" Maia of fire -- she controls the sun.

Eldar = Elves -- all elves, but more specifically, the Elves who travelled to the undying lands where the Valar built, a sort of paradise. So the High Elves, unlike lesser elves ("grey elves", "dark elves" etc.) and men, have met the Valar face to face.

Eldalië = a fancy way of saying Elves -- or the Elves of the Undying Lands (Valinor, across the sea in the uttermost west.)
Pronounced "Elda - LYeH" I think. Basically the Princ(ess)es of the Elves, hence the pony version.

Since the elves awoke first, the Valar invited them to live there, essentially in paradise. Unfortunately, having made this promise, they couldn't rescind it later when moving half the elves into paradise had unintended consequences... (thanks to Melkor of course). So when many of the elves eventually leave Valinor, they are essentially cast out of paradise, the elvish version of the Garden of Eden story. That's where the real plot begins...

Vala = singular, Valar = plural. Maia = singular, Maiar = plural. The Maiar, described in the next chapter, are lesser Ainur immortal spirits (like Gandalf and Sauron). Some of the Maiar are very powerful elemental beings, however, like Ossë, the spirit of sea-storms, or (presumably) Tom Bombadil, the spirit of 4th Wall Breaking (essentially Tolkien's version of Pinkie Pie, although I haven't used him as such.)

Melkor (later called Morgoth) = the most powerful of the Valar, who was cast out of the pantheon after he turned to evil, so-to-speak. Basically the "god of all evil" in Middle Earth, and the only thing he originated was evil itself -- all the rest of his power comes from corrupting and destroying what everyone else created. Sauron was his chief disciple, but Tolkien's Sauron is primarily interested in order, control, and the domination of other spirits -- sort of Discord's opposite number, you might say. Whereas Melkor is fundamentally nihilist, i.e. he ultimately wants to destroy the universe or reduce it to something that is a part of himself. As such, Sauron and Discord are both "less evil" than Morgoth / Tirek, and both Sauron and Discord even repent of their ways, or feign repentance at various times. In the pony version, I decided to identify Discord with early Sauron from the early Silmarillion, who is a more chaotic, fairy-tale character -- but even Sauron was essentially Starscream to Morgoth.

Ponyweed
Group Admin

And yes, Sombra is more like the Sauron of Lord of the Rings (and his lieutenant, the Witch-King of Angmar, who is a similarly flat character in the film version, sadly) so I'm kind of splitting Sauron's character here into two elements, the trickster / shapeshifter Sauron of the early Silmarillion (Discord) and the tyrant Sauron of later ages and his Nazgul (Nightmare Moon / Sombra). As such, Discord does retain his role in the fall of Numenor (Ponicéan) which is a bit more explicable in the context of early Sauron, who was more manipulative and always able to assume a "fair" form. It's also a bit more hopeful of an outcome for Sauron, in fact, as Tolkien says that even Sauron was not evil at first, and Discord is at least partially redeemed (the Ponymarillion is an alternate history for Equestria, and doesn't try to contradict what we know, or at least hand-waves any contradictions). Later ages are poorly defined / hand-waved / left for others to work on at this point, however, since that's where the history of Equestria and Middle Earth begin to diverge.

ExOttoyuhr
Group Contributor

For what it's worth, Tolkien's interest focused on the Fall of the Noldor and the Three Great Tales (Beren and Luthien; The Children of Hurin; the Fall of Gondolin). These are probably the area to tackle first -- the Ainulindale may be at the front of the book, but structurally it's not all that different from the glossary you provide -- that is to say, an afterthought.

From your plans, I think Chapters 5-7 would be the most promising to start out with. Talking Feanor and Sunset Shimmer will surely be interesting.

3821985 Don't forget that Discord can be quite cruel. I'd say that he differed from Sauron in ambition more than anything -- Sauron was always out for a particular goal, while Discord did things just because, even to the point of risking being sealed back into stone so that he could toy with the Element-Bearers. ... Thinking about it more, I don't think the Discord-Sauron resemblance is a particularly close one -- but I do think that if BoLT Tevildo appeared on the show, no one would bat an eye.

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