Shockwave— I couldn't think of a good lecture, so I decided to make this a discussion.

Personally I think it all depends on what kind of cliche you use in your story; e.g. I can't take a protagonist seriously when they are Black and Red. However, at this point using a black and red OC is more of a sin than a cliche. But I digress.

Rather than saying the obvious that it makes them look edgy, it's just not a common color pattern, and it feels lazy too. If you want your character to be special, don't show it by giving him a weird color pattern or a cool name, show it through his actions in the events that follow the story. No matter how you try to present a red and black character it's most likely going to fail for me because of how they look. Try to give them a tragic backstory and I'll just role my eye. However, the only place where I see it can fit is in comedies, because at least you're using him for the sake of comedy.

Yeah, I agree. I also feel that clichés are best avoided, subverted or used for comedic purposes.
And I think that cliché usage should be brought up in a review; especially if it is clear that the creator is using them seriously. As long as the criticism is handled relatively constructively and gives a reason as to why the cliché is seen as undesirable.
3976917

Look at it this way. Why is it important to fix grammar, or plotholes, or OOC dialog? All of these things break immersion. The reader is going along, absorbed in your story, but they're kicked back to reality when they see the word "Twlight". They're reminded that this is just a story—one that has a typo in it, no less—and it increases the odds that your reader will Ctrl-W and move on.

In a similar fashion, cliches can also ruin your reader's immersion. Rather than enjoying your story for what it is, they're thinking "oh boy, another fic with Lyra being obsessed with humans for no plot-relevant reason. I haven't seen this before," or "wow, a red and black alicorn OC. We know what that means." Since ruining immersion is generally a bad thing, by extension, cliches can be bad too.

That doesn't mean you need to universally avoid them, though. You can subvert them, use them for ironic/comedic purposes, or hell you can even play them straight if you're careful (as seen in both of the Most Dangerous Game competitions). But as an author you should avoid careless use of cliches, and thus as a reviewer it's probably good to bring up cliches if you spot them.

3976985 That's a great explanation.

3976917 A factor? Definitely. A deciding one? Well, I don't think so.

If everything is done well, then it would simply be a good example of something popular, something we've seen before and are familiar with, but done to the level we'd want something so popularized done. I only hate clichés when they're done poorly, because that's the stage when it goes from being a poorly written story to an unbearable one.

Consider the James Bond movies: they've been playing their own clichés straight for years (they even invented the cliché of the super spy) but they do it well enough for people to like it.

Another example is the 'Rainbow loses wings' cliché. Now, I tend to avoid them because they've been done a lot, and often poorly, but when it's done well, at it's core it's a really fun premise, or at least in my opinion.

3976917
Not cliches in general, no. Just the execution of said cliche, because even the most cliche story done well can be forgiven because of proper execution and presentation.

3977018 I am well aware of this.

3977041
That's a Trope...

3977041 I think that's more of a trope. It's not overused enough for me to call it a cliché. I most commonly see it being used in parodies or homages to Star Wars, where such a thing makes perfect sense.

3977075 It's used commonly because it's very common in our distinctly non-black and white world. Humans tend to think of things as having only two sides. And forcing people to confront that bias can be interesting.

3977058
Toy Story Two! Ya, that one was good.

Had to pull it, just had to pull it.

3977103 It's a trope that's used extremely commonly because it's a good source of drama. It's also so incredibly general that it can easily be applied to just about anything.

3977120 A cliché is an idea that's been used so commonly that it's worn out its welcome. People will see it as unoriginal and boring most of the time.

3976917
I feel like there is a difference between a cliche and a fanon. I think somethings people call a cliche could also be considered a common fanon that some people enjoy reading. Whether you like that type of fanon or not can decide if you consider it a cliche. Now does slapping the cliche tag over said fanon make you a bad reviewer? No. It just means you have a different point of view on said fanon. Should you address in anyways? Depends on how you say it, because you could just be running your mouth off, saying the same old things that's wrong with said cliche/fanon that many other people have already said before. Unless if you can come up with an original reasoning behind why this fanon doesn't work in this story, it might be better to just make a small note rather than making it a big portion on why the story is what it is.

3976985

3977146 The usage of OCs is not a cliché. The exact details of the OC and what the author does with them can be clichés, but merely using OCs isn't likely to become one anytime soon.

3977152 That's a difficult one. I'll say that as long as a meme is still "fresh", it isn't a cliché.

3977172 That is a trope. It may be overused, but it is still welcomed by many. Even if it is highly unrealistic. Perhaps that's why people like it.

3977203 Again, it's not a cliché. I'm not sure if that even counts as a trope. It's just a term. Randomly making characters into lesbians for the sake of lesbians probably is, especially in this fandom. There needs to be an actual reason other than "I decided these characters are lesbians so that my OTP works."

3977217
3977203
Google is your friend. This thread is not the palce for checking whether a concept is a trope.

3977217 Again, just a trope. Like the morality thing mentioned earlier, people who believe that the ends justify the means aren't exactly uncommon in real life.

3977228
Lesbianism is not a trope. "Lesbians are always attractive to heterosexual males" is a trope.

I feel like this discussion has been completely turned around

3977228 That's not quite the same concept. That's for fanservice, which qualifies as an actual reason in my book. It's not just "because I said so".

3977249
Agreed.

3977249
Amen.

3977249 Agreed. This would probably be better suited for the School For New Writers.

3977287 It's okay. I enjoyed discussing the subject.

My problem with clichés is that they become predictable.

Oh a LOHAV story? Of course the main guy is going to become the one he/she dressed as and become a villain for stupid reasons.

The biggest stories that I feel has these are HiE's. Too be honest I actually like HiE's, but there are some clichés that I don't like. The human getting transported to Equestria by a portal or Twilight failing a spell. Waking up in the Everfree Forest and maybe fighting some monster. Ponies getting scared of the human and Rainbow Dash tackles him/her. The ponies begins to be friendly to him really quick and then lives in Twilights house.

I at least want some originality, but if a story has to many clichés I will just stop.