For those who do not know, the Umbrum are what Sombra was created from. they made him in the guise of a pony so that they could destroy the crystal heart and take over the world.

Now, the reason for this thread is that, whilst i was at work on Monday, a thought occurred to me about the season 5 finale, specifically, the sombraverse. remember how sombra was putting his subjects into those suits of armour where the eyes glowed green.

Originally, we think it's mind control, but, what if it isn't? The Umbrum are never specified in form to my knowledge, though that could be because i haven't read the comics that followed after Sombra's Origins, so my thoery is that the Umbrum have no actual bodies of their own. What if, since this may be the case, those suits of armour aren't meant to mind control the crystal ponies, but to give the Umbrum their own bodies?

It's not much of a theory and i haven't gone too much into detail, but what do you think? Is the armour a means by which sombra is giving the other umbrum the chance to have their own bodies or is it just simply mind control?

5418944
GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY. I never thought of it like that and this theory is actually an interesting take on that timeline? I mean, Umbrum derives from "umbra", which translate to "shadow". Sombra himself is made of shadow, and is considered at his weakest when his physical form is diminished to shadow.

5418944 A fascinating concept. I've been working a great deal on reconciling the events of the Sombra universe with the events in "Siege" for a novel of my own and this is one that had never occurred to me.

Personally, considering the color of the eyes of the helms, I always believed the armor was powered by dark magic or shadow magic, something that corrupted/compelled the ponies who wore it. Well, in my own tale, it's a bit more complicated, but that's the general gist.

My only quibble (yes, pun intended) would be that the Umbrum did not (apparently) need hosts when they were in control of the Crystal Empire in Chrysalis's flashback. However, the flashback was extremely vague and short. And it's Chrysalis, so who knows if she was telling the whole truth?

Still, I think there's some great potential here! Definitely read "The Siege of the Crystal Empire" though if you want to explore this further. That goes into the backstory of the Umbrum a great deal and you'll want to be armed with that information for any tale you write if you wish to consider the comics canon (which I totally am doing).

information for any tale you write if you wish to consider the comics canon (which I totally am doing)

5419085

5418944 Through I disagreed on how they handle the umbras in the comics(too many plot holes), I do somewhat agree with your idea. My headcannon puts that were robbed of their original bodies long ago, and that when Sombra took over the Crystal Empire, he used a spell that switched the souls of the crystal ponies and the umbras, however later when the princesses defeated him, they reversed the spell.

I got the same idea just yesterday !

5419394
I wanted to ask what plot holes did you see/notice?
(and spoil as much as you want!)

6381959
heh, there's been studies and commentary done on how people, who are completely different and had no way of communicating, had the same Ideas at the same times.

It really makes ya kinda believe in a greater power doesn't it! heh, either that or We as a species are just all tapping into a 'humanity thought slipstream' (a metaphysical river of ideas) and people happen to catch the same idea at the same time (because this river is finite, the chances of someone having the same thoughts is low, but surprisingly happens quite a bit because of our vast numbers!!)

7675976
Everything from the small ones like the laziness of finding the gem of evil directly outside the empire and the lack of other ponies noticing the problems with Sombra's mental state. To massive plot hole like why the hell is Sombra willingly staying in a city that openly tortures his mind even after his love interest offers him multiple ways out. It is clear the writers wanted to make him a tortured soul, literally, but that's hard to accept with he has multiple ways to escape his pain and does nothing. Even worse, Princess Amore, the worst character in fiction, openly knows his dark future and openly does NOTHING too, on the assumption that after he brutally murders her and tortures all her people for a thousand years, he will somehow reform and search for her remains offscreen. That is horrible planning, not mega level brilliance, torturing millions of ponies including the later torturer himself all to reform a single soul a thousand years after the fact. The more painful parts of this is the characters all know ways out of their hell and do nothing.

There is no reaction, proactiveness or even a path to the story. Things happen purely to fill a quota and completely ignore the massive caverns of ideas that point them in a different directions.

And all that's not even covering the horrible four parter at the end of this. I can be fine with all the villains uniting during the first book, but swiping them under the rug instantly after Sombra's appearance is just so damn pointless. It would have been fine if they were working for him but no! They're here and gone, not even here to show off Sombra's power by defeating them, just here because the writers wanted to bring as many readers as possible because they knew this arc would have every fan wondering. And that's not even the biggest plot hole. I would have been annoyed but still fine if that was the whole plot of the arc but it wasn't. Instead, Radiant Hope returns from literally nowhere, somehow unaged after being missing for a thousand years and what happens, again characters do absolutely NOTHING. Does she attempt to question the umbrum un any way? Nope. Does she attempt to help Sombra's sanity? no that would require actual writing, let him torture even more ponies while he mopes like an emo, doing nothing at all after his entrance in the first comic and then suddenly neasr the end releases his people, who are obviously, painfully, pure freaken evil just because a plot that has every villain in MLP all in the same place need another big bad villain.

And don't even get me started on the sheer laziness behind the designs of ANOTHER pixie wing species in MLP when there so many different ways to take them, this big species of bad ponies are treated like a single mass, had it simply been the voice tricking Sombra at the lead I could have been a just a little fine, by this point I was already mad, with the voice being the villain it would have been easy, but no, its the whole damn species, this is literally racism writing at its worst and it's not even over.

At the end all of this, we are supposed to believe that this was all planned out by the dumbest princess in existence ALL OF IT to have Sombra reform and resurrect her off screen when ALL OF THIS PAIN AND AGONY FOR ALL HER PONIES INCLUDING SOMBRA COULD HAVE BEEN DODGED IF SHE SIMPLY DID MORE THEN NOTHING AT ALL.

7675982

Damn... I can see what you're sayin.. I can see your point of view...

And I just want to present a few points as counter thoughts.

I'll send it to you as a PM though cause I add a lot of whitespace when I type, and I am a little too lazy to tag each one as spoiler.

7675986
I'll read it in the morning. Just woke up for a midnight snack and saw the message.

Edit: Realized you don't get thread update notifs... so, here:
7675982

It's my first time sending a PM and I am sad that I can't edit it-

Here's some stuff I missed:
The "Gem of Evil"

You can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but, isn't the Crystal Empire like, surrounded by snowstorms and Evil gems, outside of the Crystal Heart's protection?

At least .. that's what I thought (prior to Cadanza's reign of course)

Point is. I think it's normal at that point in time. To have Crystals of "Evilll" right outside lol. I mean, that's why you have guards patrolling outside the city to begin with.

They're keeping an eye on these gems and making sure nothing is going wrong.

Lol just wanted to add.. I am so glad the Spoiler tags allow whitespace in between them! Nice!

Sombra's Mental State.

In defense of the comic:
1 Sombra was a pony who had no mother. No father. And no friends.

Literally only Hope was the one who cared about Sombra. No one else did.

He was a blank flank. He was probably weird cause I think as a kid he spoke in third person?

No one liked him.

no one cared about him.


I mean. Take US humans for example.
We have people who die by suicide everyday. And WE didn't notice THEIR mental pain and anguish, did we?

Heck, even people who self harm. We literally never notice anyone outside our own lives or friend circles.

So if Sombra stayed in his bed. No pony noticed.

and No Pony Cared.


So it makes sense in the story.

Why Stay in the City of Pain?

... Damn. This is a harder question to answer. Mostly because in order for me to answer it properly. In a way that's semi-relatable. I'd have to talk about my own life.


I relate to Sombra somewhat. And that's why I enjoy his character so much.

I like feeling wrathful or angry. It gives me a feeling of power.

And, I too, am in a position where I suffer, or "suffer" if you want me to put it lightly (cause let's be honest, I can't actually be suffering if I have a home and a device with internet access and free time to engage in fandom shit).


And... yeah. I can leave.
I .. did try leaving. A few times.


And each time I was stopped by some such reason. Sometimes. the reasoning is Hard to explain.



I think Sombra was going through something like that.

Additionally I don't remember Hope giving him that many options to leave? My memory sucks ass so feel free to correct me. But all I remember is her asking if Sombra would like to come with her to Princess Training? I think??

Anyways, point is. Sombra feels tied to the Crystal Empire. Perhaps deep down he was chained to his people. Perhaps deep down they DID something TO him, that essentially boiled down to programming. An invisible ball and chain if you will.

Amore PT.2

Sorry, I know it's already in your PMs, but I just wanted to add;

- Princess Amore is like Fluttershy: She believes there's good in Sombra, just Like how Fluttershy believed there was good in Discord.

Lol I am a little surprised they Didn't Milk Discord by extending the Season 3 Episode 10 plotline. Maybe make THAT the season three finale? Discord does something similar to Sombra where he reigns chaos over Ponyville. And Fluttershy continually refuses to go against him, until Discord realizes how nice it is to have ONE pony on his side to appreciate what he does. And in an effort to make her happy, he THEN reforms and it is reveled he could have just carried ponies over to his dimension if he wanted someone to appreciate his nature.




Sorry.. long tangent.

Point is: She didn't see the future. She just said, "you're a good egg."

She probably didn't know about his suffering though? Even if she knew his nature.

It's like when I speak to people in pain. Sure. They tell me they're in pain. But that doesn't mean I understand.


Sure, she knew he was Umbrum. Doesn't mean she knew his pain. Or his thoughts.

I just thought they needed to hear, 'Everything is going to be okay'

She just thought he needed to hear that 'You are not a monster. You are good!'

Radiant Hope PT.2

Comes from nowhere, unaged and shit:
- I think it was established that she was with the Umbrums the whole time? Until she hatched that plan of course

FOLLOW UP: How did she know about the other villians?
- ... *shrug*
This I'd agree to be a plot hole. Either that or I can be super lenient and say that she probably heard stories of the Mane 6


Helping Sombra's Sanity?
- lol, she was trying to calm him down, she was chasing him down the halls like: "WAAAITTT"

Hope can't instantly change him. She never had a chance to talk to him, until he actually went to her room and listened to what she had to say.

It's because of her he decides not to shatter the heart.

Any ways. Just wanted to present and show you the otherside.

Cause I personally love the comic. It resonates with me so much.

It's okay if you don't believe me, or don't see what Im sayin.

I could be spewing nonsense that makes sense to me and no one else. And that's okay. That's just how life is lol