So the epilogue of The Glass Kingdom had my first writing with changelings in it. In light of the fact that changelings are going to be central to Season 3, and because it was decided awhile ago that I should have closer control over the Luanverse, I sort of made a few executive decisions regarding how changelings act and their social structure within the context of the Luanverse. I figured I'd write them down here.

1. Changelings are not a Hive Mind
No changeling knows what other changelings are thinking, not without asking, anyway. Similarly, changelings cannot necessarily recognize or sense one another on sight, unless the changelings are specifically trying to attract the attention of their hive, anyway - via buzzing wings or magical pulses from their horns.

2. Changelings don't have pony magic in their natural form
The horns of a changeling are receptive to magical pulses from other changelings, letting them know if they're part of the same hive. They can also be used offensively to fire out kinetic beams or perform basic telekinesis. However, changelings in their natural forms can't cast spells. Despite the wings, changelings also lack pegasus magic. So they can't manipulate the weather or walk on clouds.

3. Changelings tend to be weaker than ponies
In a straight-up brawl, a changeling drone actually tends to be weaker than even a unicorn, nevermind a pegasus or an earth pony. Hive lords are a little stronger than pony average, meanwhile. Queens are far stronger.

4. A changeling in the form of a pony can learn to duplicate their magic
However, this takes effort, and only works while in that form. Since they lack a real cutie mark, all spells are hard to learn.

This also applies to non-pony forms, such as that of a griffin, camel, cervid, etc.

5. Changelings are individuals...sort of
Changelings all have individual will, can form their own opinions and hopes and desires and stuff. However, changelings within the same hive are chemically bonded to one another and to the hive's Queen. Thus while they might disagree with one another, they are chemically incapable of real infighting, as well as chemically incapable of disobeying the commands of a superior with the hive. A changeling who is isolated from other changelings for a long time, or one with a particularly strong willpower, could overcome this chemical bonding, but in the latter case it would be seen as the epitome of treachery (and probably insanity by changeling standards), while in the former case the changeling would probably go through immense withdrawal symptoms and view it as a fate worse than death. Changelings who's Queen is killed can be absorbed into a new hive after a period of chemical bonding to the new Queen. Orphan changelings consider this process horrifying, painful, and a distinct yet equally horrible fate worse than death...until it finishes. Then they love their new Queen.

Queens are not bonded to their hive in the same way as other changelings; any affection they feel for their underlings is purely psychological. Some queens genuinely love their hive; others see them as little more than tools that occasionally talk back. Regardless, drones and hive lords don't generally know this about their Queen. The chemical bonding makes them think that they are loved by their Queen just as much as they love their Queen.

There is a changeling folk rumor that under the right circumstances a Queen could become so powerful as to be able to chemically enslave other queens. One hopes that this is just a rumor. If it were true, a queen's willpower would likely be strong enough to know that they're chemically enslaved and hate the slaver queen for it, even as they are powerless to do anything about it.

6. Changelings come from another world on the other side of Shadow
Not from Shadow (the place where Grogar was banished) itself. They use Shadow to move from their world to ours.

7. Changelings have three castes
Drones are the most common sort of changeling. They basically exist to serve as workers or soldiers, doing various jobs as need be. Under the right circumstances - such as a cadre of drones being cut off from a hive and needing a leader - one drone in the cadre can mutate to become a pseudo-hive lord. This usually only lasts until contact is reestablished, at which point the pseudo-hive lord reverts back to being a drone most of the time, or else can be mutated into a full hive lord if the Queen wishes it.

Hive are larger and stronger than drones and organize and direct them through their various tasks. They are the ones who emit the chemicals that bond other drones in the hive to them. Basically they're the thinkers and the planners of a changeling hive. Basically think of them as being mayors or generals or whatnot, but directly grown for the role rather than elected or earning it. Hive lords cannot become Queens.

Each changeling hive has one queen. They chemically bond the hive lords to them, and through that bond also have the drones bonded to them. Each one is very powerful - not alicorn-level, but far stronger and tougher than the common changeling. Genetically, every single non-adopted (see above) changeling in a hive is related to the Queen in some way. Also, Queens are an exception to the "no magic" rule for changelings in their natural state: Queens are competent spellcasters in their own right.

8. In their natural state, changelings are asexual
But they can acquire sexual organs and characteristics as needed. Drones rarely do except during infiltration. Hive Lords can be male, and so impregnate the Queen; or female, and so be impregnated by the Queen. Impregnated Queens lay eggs that become hive lords or, if necessary, a new Queen. Hive lords impregnated by a Queen lay eggs that become drones. Drones can actually mate with one another too, in order to produce more drones. Hive lords mating with one another also produces drones.

You'll note that all of the above means that technically speaking, changelings don't actually need Queens, only drones, some of which might become hive lords. Queens probably represent some kind of mutation of hive lords.

9. Queens hate Queens
This might be instinctual, it might be chemical, or it might just be that Queens tend to be selfish bitches who hate competition. Regardless, Queens do not generally get along with other Queens, at all. A newly-hatched Queen is barely tolerated and hatched only when a hive has grown too large; the new Queen, once she is mature enough, chemically bonds with a number of hive lords and drones and is basically given 'til the count of ten to get out of her mother's sight.

As long as we don't have 'always chaotic evil' for them, I'm cool.

5339512
I thought about that and included ways around it. Individual changelings might have any particular view on things, but their chemical enslavement to the rest of the hive and to their Queens might force them to act in ways they might not necessary want to deep down inside (though the same enslavement means that on a surface level they think they do). It does mean that if you can get changelings away from their hive, though, then they can be as good or as evil as anyone else.

There's also an "out" in that, as mentioned, Queens don't seem to actually be necessary for changelings, and that Queens are immune to the same chemical enslavement. So either removing Queens, or else finding a way for Queens to undergo the same chemical bonding to the hive that the rest of the hive undergoes, could both potentially "fix" the problem.

Thank you very much for the info! I've been doing some changeling-related thinking (doing some advance planning for Season 3, mostly), and I have several questions I've been wanting to ask, mostly related to their feeding.

1: Why do changelings need to feed on love? Does it provide them with energy and nourishment directly? Is it necessary as a catalyst to digest their food? Do they use it to fuel their magic? How long can they go without feeding and what does it do to them?

2: What is needed for a changeling to feed on love? Can they siphon off love just by being in the presence of people feeling it? Do they need somepony to feel love for the pony the changeling is impersonating? Can they feed off of each other? Or feed off of animals?

3: For that matter, are changelings actually feeding off of love, or do they feed off of magic/life force and simply use love as a means to access it?

4: What effect does feeding have on the pony (or whatever else) that is being fed upon? Does it drain their energy? Does it have psychological effects? Do different kinds of feeding have different effects?

5339469 about changelings being weak that a normal pony... Could you define weak? I mean, Fluttershy could be considered a "weak" pegasus, Even the Equalized main six when Starlight, when they were like that could be considered as weak as a changeling of even more weak? I suposse with 'weak' you mean more or less a normal type of power like one that don't train the magic too much so they can't reach a "Twilight Sparkle" level but maybe a "Rarity" level or in pegasus terms it could be like the difference between "Rainbow Dash" level and "Fluttershy" level. Or the level between "Applejack" and "Spoiled Rich"

But in theory in the cannon, Chrysalis managed to get a good level of magic thanks to feed herself of Shining love, not sure if it's only the queens, or if it's not going to go like in the show.

Not to say that for what you say, even if a changeling try to train or is well feed, their magic or ability is not going to change, as it seems they can't even develop muscle like a earth pony.

Also... Something I wanted to ask, a maybe point 10... "Changelings only eat love" Myth or true in the lunaverse?

With that I mean the typical of... "Changelings can only feed of love" that make things like

A) They can't process pony food and it's toxic for them

B) They process Pony food but it's nothing for them as they still need love

C) They can use high quantity of pony food to maintain themselves

"No magic" for drones and hive lords mean "no pony magic" or "no magic at all"?

5339624 That make me think... As I was thinking 'Magic' is what make Earth pony strong and Pegasus manage to fly and stand in clouds, if they don't have pony magic they can't get a good disguise

If they don't have magic at all, they can't disguise at all.

5339469
Can you tell us more about Chrysalis herself and her motivations for this whole infiltration thing she's doing?

Honestly it was never really clear even in the mane verse why she did some of the things she did so itd be nice to have more detail in the lunaverse!

5339583

What is needed for a changeling to feed on love?

Why do changelings need to feed on love

Assuming Cadance had any idea what she was talking about on the show, changelings take the form of somepony you love and gain power by feeding off your love for them."

What effect does feeding have on the pony (or whatever else) that is being fed upon?

Again based on the show, Shining Armor definitely seemed to be in a weakened state. Granted, It's unclear if that was due to Chrysalis feeding on him or just maintaining his shield spell for an extended time. However, it is worth noting that Celestia presumably is the one who gave Shining the duty of errecting the shield in the first place, and I'd like to believe that she wouldn't have done so if it wasn't a spell he could maintain safely.

Can they feed off of each other?

Probably not, otherwise they'd never need to leave their hives in the first place. Alternatively, it could instead be a case that changelings are simply incapable of even feeling love as an emotion, which would certainly add to their alien nature. Normally I'd be inclined to presume the latter, but that might not be entirely compatible with RDD's guidelines when he says that drones love their queens. Although seeing as that's a chemically induced mental state it might not really count as real "love" in the first place either way.

5339624 5339637
Correction, RDD specifically said that changelings don't have "pony" magic. No earth pony stamina, pegasi weather manipulation, or unicorn spell casting. More specifically he also said that the don't have pony magic in their "natural" forms, but that they can replicate it while shapeshifting.

Interesting...
Especially that bit about them being physically weaker than ponies...
[scribble, scribble]

Impregnated Queens lay eggs that become hive lords or, if necessary, a new Queen. Hive lords impregnated by a Queen lay eggs that become drones. Drones can actually mate with one another too, in order to produce more drones. Hive lords mating with one another also produces drones.

You'll note that all of the above means that technically speaking, changelings don't actually need Queens, only drones, some of which might become hive lords. Queens probably represent some kind of mutation of hive lords.

Spawn more Overlords.

Huh, rather less unknowable Fay creatures and more bug-pony that some of the previous discussions, which is a shame, but this version is probably easier to write for.

Well, this is something pretty damn cool. I have a bunch of my own headcannon on changelings, I want to include that in my stories when I start publishing.

Essencially: go with how in the comics the changelings came to be, from that mutated tree, toxic swamp, an oversized mosquito and a sample of Star Swirl's blood. When they spawned - they scattered all across Equestria as free individuals blending in with the general populance. But then Chrysalis figured out how to enslave changelings as a retune of sorts and was marauding until Celestia imprisoned her in a vulcano.

In my wiew Changelings are a race of pony that inimates other ones and lives like evry other citzen, with only exeption keeping in touch with other nearby changelings and organize secret meetings evry now and then in small hives located in abandoned, desolate or underground places. There is only Chrysalis who is the only Queen to ever exist (with a prophecy to spawn a new Queen once she finds someone who will truely love her, yadayadayada) and can bind other changelings to her will. Those who spend more than a hoofful of months under her influence will start loosing their identity and permanenty join a Swarm - a fanaticly devoted to Chrysalis band of changelings that constantly is on the move (running from Celestia's enforcers) and is lead by Changeling Nobles. There is abaut 7 of them marauding araound Equestria and Chrysalis'es personal Swarm which is the biggest and zelous as hell. The rest are ussually consisting of differnt Bugs of Fortune - Nobles, equestrian criminals, those who don't fit the hidden lifestyle and those who seek power.

As evry town (or group of smaller villiges) has it's own hermetic hive society - each of them have a political standpoint. Most are neutral and are only there to protect the local changelings from outside dangers, ussally helping Celestia in some way. Some are worshipping Celestia, are part of her agencies and the guard; religiously convinced to serve her to wash down their sin to be inpure. Celestia is like "...whatever, chaps" and lets them help but keeps ther overeagerness in relative check. Those which had devoted themselves to Chrysalis are ussually laying far from civilisation and are very old, too stubborn to acknowledge Celestia as meaning good. They supply the Swarms and are allowing save passage and short stays inside.

I mentationed the Nobles: They are bloodlines of Changelings that had developed addonal features over the centuries. For egzample a bloodline of better fliers, better mages, bigger bugs, tougher armour, poisionous, etc. They are in most cases extremely depraved and see only one way of live: with Chrysalis who will create a world where they're children don't have to constantly run.

There is also a bit of headcannon abaut hybrids: Changelings and Dragons can create an offspring with any other species, unless it's a species with that same ability. You can't have a changeling-dragon hybrid. Those children often run off and/or are joining the Swarms due to them sometimes not be able to disguise who they are. That leads to animosity. And Chrysalis promises a world where they are paid any rispect.

One would hope that L!Chrysalis isn't as theatrical and dumb as M!Chrysalis is. The one on the television series was so arch and broad, she'd have had distinct trouble fooling Shaggy and Scooby without her pheromones and mental abilities blunting their senses. (She also had the very good fortune of landing amongst strangers who ascribed her excesses to a cultural factor. That might not apply here.)

5340199 Chryssie also had the writers on her side. Plot fiat for the win.

Anyway, I'm really glad we're not including the comics origin for them. God how I loathe that.

5340207 I know, right? "Meet The Soldier" was more coherent.

5340220 Sorry, but I don't know what 'Meet the Soldier' refers to. Could you please clarify? Sorry.

5340226

That would be this, it's an official Team Fortress 'background' video showing the Soldier character to be, well at best a little bit crazy.

5340284 *Blinks slowly* Thank you. That was... something.

5340284 The deeper background is that he's a victim of heavy metal poisoning from drinking tap water laced with mine tailings. The OTHER mercenaries drink the bottled water their employers ship in because they don't want their brains to decay like the townsfolk they find themselves surrounded by but Solly thinks that's un-American so we get crap like this.

Anywa, the reason I mentioned the man calling himself Sgt Barrister Jane Doe is that the origin of the changelings in the comics is something that could only have come from his lead-ravaged brain.

5340080

I dunno. Considering the talk in the Epilogue of Glass Kingdom I still kind of got this sense of otherworldlyness about them. "Bring forth the Queen" sounds like portals might be involved in some manner. And they do come from beyond the shadow as well. So they're still kinda fae-ish.

Just also creepy and insectoid at the same time.

5340017

*points* Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done!

( )

5339536

I really appreciate you leaving some back door escapes on the whole "Always Chaotic Evil" trope. It certainly makes me more interested in using them in Season 3, rather than just bunkering down in my little corner of the 'Verse.

5340379

I get the otherworldliness, but maybe not quite as eldritch as I'd originally imagined them. Sure, they're clearly different from ponies with the whole chemical bonds thing but their goals seem to be quite mundane rather than being unknowable to mortals. Still like I said it's certainly something easier to write a story for.

So are some Queens actually male? You make it sound like they could basically be Kings, and just impregnate female hivelords. (Assuming they aren't all just hermaphroditic).

5340824
Queens can be female or male (or both, or neither). They tend to favor a female form, though, since birthing hive lords is generally more useful than birthing drones (since drones can be born from hive lords).

5340400
Yeah, in the balance, they work better as weird aliens than fey, much to my own regret as I like the fey angle. But fey are just a bit too weird.

5339623
Basically the idea is taken from how the Mane-6 in "A Canterlot Wedding" were able to take on dozens of changeling drones at a time:

As for eating normal food, yes - they still need to get mass somewhere in order to grow. But they also need love as a food source.

5339694

Probably not, otherwise they'd never need to leave their hives in the first place. Alternatively, it could instead be a case that changelings are simply incapable of even feeling love as an emotion, which would certainly add to their alien nature. Normally I'd be inclined to presume the latter, but that might not be entirely compatible with RDD's guidelines when he says that drones love their queens. Although seeing as that's a chemically induced mental state it might not really count as real "love" in the first place either way.

I'm inclined to think that changelings of the same hive can't feed on each other, but they can feed on changelings from other hives.

5340909
I liked the fey angle as well but to be fair the only person I've seen effectively add Fey characters to their universe is Jim Butcher. The problem with creatures as unknowable as fey is that they tend to break any universe they're placed in.

Though just a question. Is having a character asking the question "What do you love?" still going to be short hand for hinting that he is secretly a changling?

5340944
Well, I used it...but of course we don't want every changeling to say it. And conversely we should occasionally have non-changelings ask it.

Red herring is best herring.

5340953
That makes sense.

Also, so changlings can't replicate specific pony magic but they can fake generic spells with practice. Is the same true for them impersonaring other magic weilding non pony creatures like the donkeys, the voodoo weilding Zebronies and the magic resistant goats?

5339469 So Changeling drones and Hive Lords are like Dittos, and they only know Transform, but they get moves when they do transform... but Transform doesn't copy HP so they're still somewhat frail...

And Queens are basically Mew. They know Transform but have tons of other tricks!

I wonder if a war between two hives would basically be a pheromone wars where one hive tries to negate and remove the chemical bonding so as to absorb defeated Drones.

Also I'm thinking Drones can't really understand Pony love as anything but the same sort of chemical bonding they do.

5339637

That make me think... As I was thinking 'Magic' is what make Earth pony strong and Pegasus manage to fly and stand in clouds, if they don't have pony magic they can't get a good disguise

5339694

Correction, RDD specifically said that changelings don't have "pony" magic. No earth pony stamina, pegasi weather manipulation, or unicorn spell casting. More specifically he also said that the don't have pony magic in their "natural" forms, but that they can replicate it while shapeshifting.

I been confused by this phrase - "Also, Queens are an exception to the "no magic" rule for changelings in their natural state: Queens are competent spellcasters in their own right". Did this mean what only Queens can use pony magic in a natural form, or what only Queens can cast spells in they natural form and drones and hive lords can not cast spells in they natural forms at all?

5341127
Drones and hive lords can't cast spells in their natural form; Queens can. A changeling shape-shifted into unicorn form can learn to cast spells, however, regardless of caste. It just takes effort.

As stated this ability to mimic magic also applies to other tribes (pegasi, earth ponies, crystal ponies, kirin, etc.) and other races (deer, griffins, camels, etc.)

5340909

Basically the idea is taken from how the Mane-6 in "A Canterlot Wedding" were able to take on dozens of changeling drones at a time:

I figured that was the angle you were going for. Then again, however, that might have had more to do with the M6 being the heroes of the story and so are them selves ostensibly ponies of highly exceptional prowess, ability, and just plain luck. After all, so far as we could see elsewhere, Canterlot's presumably trained military guard was completely ineffectual, unable to even so much as lend the M6 any meaningful cover support.

Which isn't to say I have any problem with your interpretation, just rambling alternatives here.

I'm inclined to think that changelings of the same hive can't feed on each other, but they can feed on changelings from other hives.

This, however, this prospect actually worries me. Mostly because just the existence of multiple hives in the first place is something I find potentially very troublesome to any kind of sustainable narrative. I really don't want to see our Season-3 stories getting sidetracked and bogged down by interhive politics. The focus really should be on Equestria-vs-changeling, and I'd hate' to see a random third faction of supposedly "good" changelings forced into the mix and throwing the conflict out of balance.

I'm also worried about multiple hives from a conceptual logistics standpoint, at least if they're all as big as Chrysalis's group and especially if we're dropping the fey angle. If there's an entire society of changeling micro nations out there, than it's all the harder to believe that the race has gone largely unnoticed (or at least written of as myth) by ponies up until this point.

You mentioned the queens might be some kind of mutation, but what if maybe Chrysalis was the first of her kind. That is to say, for as long as changelings have existed they've always operated in smaller autonomous "cells" of only a few dozen at a time, few enough in number that they can feed in anonymity. Every so often, a given group might start getting larger enough to be considered a "hive" under the leadership of a "queen", but such groups tend to be both very rare and never more than few hundred per hive, since as their numbers increase so too does the risk of exposure. These larger groups might also seldom last more than a generation, or rather the lifespan of the queen, breaking up and drifting apart after her death. Some generational queens might have cropped up ever now and again, possibly leading to somewhat larger if more diffused hives, but in general there births are too infrequently rare, or are even eliminated by there mothers before they can become a rival threat.

Chrysalis cold then be something of an anomaly, having subjugated a never before seen number of changelings into a monolithic mega-hive. This could maybe then further explain why she is ostensibly the first queen to ever try moving beyond simple replace and feed in secret tactics. This could also help alleviate my earlier concerns about inter hive politics distracting from the invasion storyline, by making it there just isn't any other hive out there that's large enough to oppose Chrysalis, with most of the changelings in Equestria and surrounding nations having either been absorbed into Chrysalis's hive or else gone into hiding to avoid falling under her influence. This way we can leave open a back door to deal with potentially "good" groups of changeling's in the future, while still only having consider Chrysalis and her "evil" swarm for Season-3.

5341391
I think, what if for mimicking other species magic cangelings use a same chemicals, what they use to form they chemicals bounds. So if cangeling want use magic on some object he need first put his trace on this object, and only after that he can magically interact with it. But in same time, while trace of a cangeling stay on a object any member of his hive can magically interact with it.

And other idea is, hive lords can cast a spells in they natural form, but they need fully formed chemical bounds to serve as a carrier for they magic. Inside of a hive chemical bounds between hive lords and they drones similar but not identical, and the more difference between hive lord chemical bounds and target drone - the harder for hive lord put magic on a drone.

5340944 5340953 So, should we have some of them ask, "What do you want?"

5341422
Well, I mentioned the possibility of a Queen that can chemically enslave other Queens; that was how I was going to get around inter-hive politicking: Chrysalis is that slaver Queen. With them being native to another world, as well, I was at the moment thinking that they're actually pretty new to Equestria, at least in any real numbers. A small number of changelings may have gotten to the pony world in the past through one means or another, but it's been exceptionally rare until very recently.

But, everything is in a state of flux right now.

5341664
I suppose... but to me that sort of begs they question of what they fed on in their original world, which further begs a potential need to flesh that world out, in which case I feel it'd just be better to go back to the fey concept. If where dropping the fey angle though, I feel it might be better for changeling to just be native to the Equestrian world, or at least having crossed over so long ago that they've long since forgotten the details of their original homeworld.

Also, there's still sort of the issue of Cadance seeming knowing what a changeling is on the show, which seemed to imply they had been around at least long enough for myths/rumors about them to start cropping up. Granted we aren't necessarily beholden, but I do still feel that we should consider carefully before making any hard breaks. Plus, well, if changeling are new to theEquestrian world, then I feel like that sort of undermines their infiltration threat, since it creates a sort of double blind ignorance, wherein the changelings are maybe to alien to even conduct a proper infiltration in the first place.

Your call either way in the end though.

5341701
Well, with regards to Cadance, remember that she had been imprisoned by Chrysalis - who is known to love to gloat. I can easily see Chrysalis as having spilled the beans on basically the entire invasion plan and nature of changelings to Cadance in a moment of evil gloating.

5341701

I don't know if we actually need to know that much about the history and home of the Changelings to tell the story. I guess it depends what the arc of the season is and how the changelings are ultimately defeated (if they are). Sure the readers know what's happening but the characters in universe don't, they might not have any way to know where the changelings came from unless one feels like telling them. It might be a good way through the season before anyone even knows what a changeling is.

5341701

I know that I've been treating Changelings as an unknown thing when I've been writing stuff related to them.

Admittedly, so far that's only come up in the crossover with my AU when L!Trixie ran into S!Changelings and didn't have a clue what she was looking at. But as that is a non-cannon crossover, my take should in turn be taken with a glacier sized piece of salt. If we do go with Changelings being unknown though, it wouldn't change much in my mind.

5340909

Actually, I'd like to come back to this whole idea of them working better as weird aliens, rather than fae.

Right now they seem pretty alien already. I'm not entirely following that making them fae would somehow be a worse level of "weirdness" than their current set up, I don't suppose you could elaborate on your logic there?

5339694

Assuming Cadance had any idea what she was talking about on the show, changelings take the form of somepony you love and gain power by feeding off your love for them."

Again based on the show, Shining Armor definitely seemed to be in a weakened state. Granted, It's unclear if that was due to Chrysalis feeding on him or just maintaining his shield spell for an extended time. However, it is worth noting that Celestia presumably is the one who gave Shining the duty of errecting the shield in the first place, and I'd like to believe that she wouldn't have done so if it wasn't a spell he could maintain safely.

Yes, I remember what the show said. However, Cadence was just giving a brief summary, the Celestiaverse is AU to us, and the exact rules changelings have to operate under could be very significant. So I'd really like an official RDD-canon answer on these.

5341391

I've been wondering, if changelings are more capable when in their shifted forms, wouldn't they have gone to battle in them? Or does maintaining a disguise cost energy?

5341664
5341701
5342044

Hmm... it's starting to sound more like an alien invasion... Like competant body snatchers. Maybe the passage through Shadow into Equestria is actually difficult and 'narrow', for lack of a better word. Maybe what the Changelings are working on right now, in secret, is just a way to breach reality and bring Chrysalis in?! A Chrysalis that would be outside the normal power scale of our world, so we could make her into a proto-Alicorn in her own right.

Now as for what Changelings fed on...

Let's begin with the idea that Friendship is Magic. Magic is powered up by the bonds between individuals, by the Harmony between things. Love, who is related to Friendship, is basically a focused alternate frequency of that Harmony. Friendship is Magic, Friendship is Love, Love is thus Magic. Changeling feed on that link, and thus get powered up.

Maybe their world has natural fonts of energy in that specific spectrum, except there it is in finite quantity. Like a metaphysical petroleum. Or maybe they just killed off all the other specifes on their world and are starving.

Maybe the Love in Equestria is more potent too, makes Changelings stronger.

There's some interesting implications on changelings not being able to copy Pegasus and Earth Pony magic but being able to copy unicorn spells.

It would be very difficult for Changelings to infiltrate cloud cities. They could fly all the time but if they can't stand on cloud it's going to get noticeable, it's also a quick test to see if somepony is a changling, shift that cloud over there, can't you're a bug pony.

In addition it suggests changling shape shifting is at least partially physical if they can only cast unicorn spells in unicorn form, it's not entirely an illusion.

5341866

with regards to Cadance, remember that she had been imprisoned by Chrysalis - who is known to love to gloat.

True enough, but it's also that Chrysalis's response seemed more like affirmation that Cadance had correctly figured it out on her own.

5341976

Sure the readers know what's happening but the characters in universe don't, they might not have any way to know where the changelings came from unless one feels like telling them.

It's not really about what the characters know, but rather that we as the creators know so that we can present a believable world with its own internally consistent logic. We don't necessarily have to flesh out every detail perfectly in advance, but if the changelings are going to ostensibly be aliens from another plain of existence, then we should have at least a vague notion of how they survived before coming to Equestria if only to help provide a foundation for their motives and goals in the invasion.

5343574

Maybe their world has natural fonts of energy in that specific spectrum, except there it is in finite quantity.

Except that really wouldn't explain changeling's primary defining trait. It's not just that they feed off of love, but more specifically that they do so by shapeshifting and impersonating some else. That's a methodology that really only makes sense if they've always been secretive predators living in the shadows of some other greater society. Now I suppose it's possible that in their native plain they've driven every other species extinct, but that's also a pretty grim angle that I'm not entirely sure we'd want to peruse.

I just don't think it really works for them to be extra dimensional invaders anymore, at least not if this is literally their first contact with Equestria's world. It sort of worked when they were going to be a type of fey, but less so if Changeling are now going to be their own unique thing from their own independent world.

5343854

There's some interesting implications on changelings not being able to copy Pegasus and Earth Pony magic but being able to copy unicorn spells.

Actually, I was getting the impression from RDD that he only meant they lack those in there natural forms, but can otherwise copy them while shapeshifting just the same as unicorn spellcasting. Indeed, RDD even seemed to suggest that they can likewise do the same for ANY race, not just ponies.

In addition it suggests changling shape shifting is at least partially physical if they can only cast unicorn spells in unicorn form, it's not entirely an illusion.

Or in other words, it's a "transmutation" affect to use D&D parlance, akin to spells like polymorph and shapechange.

5343872
Yeah, the idea is that changelings actually physically change themselves, not simply cloak themselves in illusions. And also yes, they can copy the magic of anything they shapeshift into - unicorn, pegasus, earth pony, camel, griffin, deer, etc. They just can't automatically do it - they need to practice it first.

As for changelings wiping out another race on their homeworld being pretty grim, well, the MLP comics got pretty grim with the changelings:

So I'm not too concerned with doing likewise with the changelings, though I'm not mandating it either - just pointing out that we could get pretty grim if we wanted.

My big issue, more, is that they need an "out", a way to defeat them without dooming their entire species in the process. Natural fonts of love on the changeling homeworld actually sounds like a good idea in that vein - the actions of various Queens, or maybe just Chrysalis herself, may have closed them off, and the Luna-6's end-goal then becomes restoring them in some way.

5343964 Hmm could Spell Hold have any information on the Changeling's home plane?

I'm not sure how the L6 could restore the natural fonts without the Elements and those don't seem to like traveling to other dimensions...

Unless a trade agreement is set up. Maybe Love freely given is more potent than Love taken by subterfuge??

5343964

the MLP comics got pretty grim with the changelings:

True enough, and it's not that I'm opposed to taking things in a grim direction. However, the grimmer we make their backstory the less changelings would seem to be worthy of any kind of "escape clause" that doesn't doom their entire race. Speaking of which though...

Natural fonts of love on the changeling homeworld actually sounds like a good idea in that vein

Can't say I'd really be in favor of that angle. It just feels like a cheep way to circumvent the unsavory implications of changeling feeding habits. If we're going to "redeem" the race I'd rather see it be through some kind of social reform or such, not just giving them a magic we don't have to be thieving dicks anymore MacGuffin.

Plus the existence of such natural fonts as their supposed original food source still doesn't really seem to make any sense with them seemingly having shapeshifting powers in the first place, when the entire reason they change forms is ostensibly linked to their need to steal love meant for others.

5344404

Maybe Love freely given is more potent than Love taken by subterfuge??

Not really much a fan of that solution either. It's the kind of thing that makes the changelings all look like idiots for ever having resorted to stealing love in the first place.

All that said, I'm certainly not opposed to giving changeling some kind of "out" that allows their species to continue without all being condemned as always chaotic evil monsters, but I don't want it to be something that just completely erases the fundamental creepiness of their feeding habits either -- well, not unless we just healing wave the whole race into some sort of *purified* form in the process.

Otherwise, I think that while changelings certainly don't all have to be maliciously evil in the way they go about gathering "love", there is something of an inescapable necessity to just acknowledge some degree of blue-vs-orange moralit with an ostensibly alien race from an entirely different dimension, especially when they for all appearance seem to be literal emotional parasites.

5344457 Personally, I'd rather have a 'cheap way' to circumvent always chaotic evil than not. If it means toning down the creepiness, then I'm all for it too.

5344700
We can still potentially maintain the creepy factor without needing to make changeling always chaotic evil. That's why tropes like *Dark Is Not Evil* and *Bad Powers, Good People*. Of course conversely, even if individual changelings can be good, that still doesn't mean they'd be particularly *nice* about it, or have any reason to be overly sympathetic to ponies (who they sill might view as little more than *talking food*).

When trying to portray an alien culture, a bit intentional *Values Dissonance* can be very useful.

5344753 Or we can just, you know, not have them be uber-creepy and give them an out so we don't condemn an entire species for the crime of existing.

5344788
Even our own real world is full of creepy species. Some of which, notably parasites, should maybe be condemned purely for the "crime" of existing. Just because changelings happen to be intelligent, doesn't mean the fundamental requirements of how they feed wouldn't put them at odds with ponies, and I think ignoring that would be an even worse disservice.

Again, it's not about making them "evil", it's about making them "alien".

5344921 Good! That's the real world. This is not the real world and we don't have to do this to the changelings. As for how they feed, it's so up in the air even on the show it's like a damned airship.

Oh, wait. We've got Matilda's friend from Slice of Life. Oh hi non-evil changeling which shoots 'always chaotic evil' in the head.

And don't bring up the comic, either. I fucking loathe what they did to the changelings in the comic and their origin is a special kind of anger for me.