In which I push the boundaries of good taste
The room falls completely silent. At first, they think I'm kidding, but as the seconds pass, I can see the pieces falling together. They're trying to be polite, I'll give them that much, but I can see the corners of their mouths twist in disgust. I thought I could count on them to understand—they are my closest friends, after all. But maybe I was wrong. Maybe this is too much to ask, even from them. Maybe this is a mistake.
Rarity's the first to speak. "Er, you're a what?"
I can't take it back. Not now. If I said it was a joke, they'd get even more suspicious. Well, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe I could still change my mind and save myself. But I'm not going to do that. I can't. I've lied for far too long, and I need to finally come out and say it.
"I'm a zoophile," I repeat. "I'm… I'm sexually attracted to animals."
They can't take it. I can see it on their faces. They aren't just disgusted. They look hurt, betrayed. This was a mistake, I knew it. They had the best intentions, but I should never have listened to them. They told me to be assertive and embrace myself, but could they have imagined this is what I was? I can see from their faces that now, I'm scum, and it's because I was assertive, because I embraced myself. Will they be able to look at me the same again? I doubt it. I've probably stained every good memory they had of me, and for what? A pittance. The tiniest peace of mind.
"Are you sure?" Applejack says.
Of course I'm sure. When I fell from the sky, and got my first glimpse of life on the land, I found a missing piece of myself. Around those animals, I felt like I belonged, far more than I did at home. The feeling was so powerful that I abandoned Cloudsdale within the month. My connections to ponies felt so fleeting and inconsequential that it was hardly a choice. I viewed people as animals, and animals as people, and if that view occasionally became so intense it was sexual, so what? It wasn't strange at all. It was the most natural thing in the world. Nothing gave me that idea. I was drawn to it, because that's where my heart lied, and that's where it always will lie. That's my curse. "Yes, I'm sure."
Rainbow Dash looks down, her eyes filled with melancholy. She looks the most hurt. "How long?" she asks. "How long have you known?"
"I only discovered the term recently," I say. "But I've known for quite a while."
"I see." She looks at me. "Why'd you never tell me? You do trust me, right?"
"I'm sorry!" I blurt out. "I've never trusted anyone about this, not even myself. The few times I've… I've given into…"
Applejack's head jerks up. "Wait, don't tell me you've actually slept with some of your critters!"
I blush, even though I probably shouldn't. "It's happened… occasionally. Once or twice. Things… escalated, and…"
The mood somehow becomes even more uncomfortable. Everyone's faces turn red in varying levels of embarrassment. I should've seen this coming.
"Fluttershy," Applejack says, slowly and deliberately, "animals can't give consent. Don't you know that?"
"Applejack, you know that isn't true!" I say, desperate. "You work on a farm. You pay attention to your animals. Haven't you ever had some express… extra attraction to you?"
"That doesn't mean I have to return it!"
"Have to? Of course not! But you can," I say. "And when you do… those feelings can go both ways."
"Not for me it can't!" she yells. "Maybe… maybe there can be some physical desire, but it's not like what people feel! There's no relationship, no deep connection, so… "
"So what?" Rainbow Dash glares at Applejack. "What are you implying?"
Applejack is silent.
"Are you saying Fluttershy doesn't care if animals have feelings? Are you saying she's using them like sex toys?"
The room stops. Rainbow Dash lets out a nervous laugh. "No wonder she never trusted anyone," she says. "Don't you have more faith in her than that?"
"Rainbow Dash," Applejack says, "she's abusing animals!"
"I am not!" I yell.
"Then what are you doing!?" Applejack says. "Just how many of those animals actually wanted to have sex with you!?"
"It was only twice!" I look down. "And they… they started it." I take a breath. "I would never do it otherwise. I know some people do. I know some people will drug them, tie them down, whatever it takes to fill their sick lust, but not me!" I pause, unable to keep my breath from quavering. "I hate them." I can't keep myself composed. Tears rolls down. "I hate them."
Rainbow Dash grasps me, and I let out a few pained sobs.
Applejack tries to reach over. "Fluttershy, I—"
"Don't," Rainbow Dash says, livid. "Don't ever lump her in with people like that again. You hear me!?"
Applejack opens her mouth, trying to think of something else to say, but decides against it. She quickly stands up and walks out, quietly closing the door behind her.
Minutes pass, and the room is filled with nothing but the most uncomfortable silence. "I'm… I'm not like that, am I?" I say.
"What!? Don't be ridiculous," Rainbow Dash says.
"But… I'm scared," I say. "How close could I have been to becoming that? If my life was just a little different… if I had never met you all… could I be out there doing Celestia knows what…?"
With little warning, Pinkie Pie's in my face. "Fluttershy, how could you think that?" she says. "You're the nicest pony I know! You'd never be like that!"
"Good people don't think those kind of thoughts," I say. "They don't look at animals and think of sex. They just don't."
Pinkie Pie looks into my eyes. "You do. You're a good person. That's enough for me."
"Besides, it doesn't matter what you think," Twilight says. "What matters is what you do."
I look at them. "This… really doesn't change how you think about me?"
Pinkie Pie rubs the back of her neck, embarrassed. "Not really," she says. "You know, I thought everyone already knew."
Rainbow Dash looks shocked. "What? Seriously?"
Pinkie Pie tries not to make eye contact with me. "No offense, Fluttershy, but you kinda zone out around your animals a lot. Especially when they're big and strong and you've got a good view of their backside," she says. "I've teased you about it a couple times, but I don't think you noticed."
I tense. Am I really that obvious? I never even noticed myself doing those things.
"I mean, I didn't care," Pinkie Pie says, backtracking. "I figured it worked like any other orientation. Just because you were different than me didn't mean you were a sex offender. You'd have to be pretty screwed up to sleep with our pets or anything, so I figured you weren't." She looks at the door. "I didn't even know anyone had a real problem with it until Applejack freaked out right now."
I look down. "Applejack…"
Twilight puts a hand on my shoulder. "Don't worry," she says. "I'm sure Applejack will come around eventually. It's just… this is kind of shocking, you know? She just needs some space."
I hope she's right.
"I agree. Try not to take it personally. Applejack can be… a tad impulsive," Rarity says. "When I first heard the news, I wasn't quite sure how to react either. If I had trusted my gut, I might have said something similar. But I didn't—I held my tongue until I knew everything. And I'm glad I did, because as you defended yourself, I realized this didn't change a thing. You're still you, Fluttershy, and you wouldn't hurt a fly. That's all that matters."
"Th-Thanks," I get out.
"You might want to continue to be discreet about it, though," Rarity adds. "If the wrong people found out, things might become… unpleasant."
I look down. "So I have to keep hiding?"
Rainbow Dash scoffs. "Of course!" she says. "If this got out, just imagine what the rich bimbos would think."
Rarity glares at her. "What kind of person do you think I am, Rainbow Dash? I'm not going to stop associating with one of my friends just because high society tells me to," she says. "Remember, I've turned down countless invitations to work from Canterlot, even though that would help my social status immensely."
Rainbow Dash winces.
"Besides, that wasn't exactly what I was getting at," Rarity says. "If Photo Finish found out about this, I'd probably have to physically restrain her from interviewing Fluttershy. She loves to push boundaries, that one, and she isn't alone. An opportunity like this, with one of the Elements? No one would be able to resist. Fluttershy would get an exclusive interview in Neigh York Magazine, easy. And after that? Who knows." Rarity looks at me. "I know how much you hated the pressure of being a model. Imagine what it would feel like to be the representative of an entire lifestyle."
I shudder. I hadn't even thought of that.
"If it helps, try not to think of it as hiding," Twilight says. "You don't need to tell everyone about this. There are plenty of culturally acceptable ways you can express your affection."
"Yeah! I mean, no one minds the way you love animals now. You don't need to change a thing!" Pinkie Pie says. "And your feelings towards them aren't always sexual, right?"
I nod.
"Well, that's a start," Twilight says. "Once you make it clear you don't abuse animals, you won't sleep with any that don't make advances on you, and you aren't attracted to all of them, there's surprisingly little to argue against. At least, if you ask me."
"Not to mention," Rarity says, "I think interspecies relationships are starting to become more acceptable. I once had a client who was engaged to a Diamond Dog, and she wasn't running into nearly as much bigotry as she thought she would."
"I forgot about that!" Twilight says, and turns to me. "Are you attracted to any of the other intelligent magical races? Like Diamond Dogs, Breezies, dragons, or Minotaurs?"
I blush at the mention of dragons. Honestly, they arouse me almost as much as they terrify me. "Dragons, maybe. They're quadrupeds, which helps. Not to mention, a large dragon overtaken by greed is practically feral…" I shake my head. "But of course actually doing anything with one is impossible and dangerous, so…"
"It's for fantasies only?" Rainbow Dash says, smirking.
"...y-yes," I admit, shrinking back. I thought those desires were the most depraved of them all, but everyone seems to be taking this better than the initial news.
"If you're attracted to other intelligent species, you might not be exclusively a zoophile," Twilight says. "And if you aren't exclusively a zoophile, I might have a trick up my sleeve to help you out."
Pinkie Pie is suddenly in her face. "What? What? What is it?"
"In a moment," Twilight says, politely pushing her away. "Now, you all have to promise not to tell anyone about this, okay? This information's going to be slowly released to the public over the next couple years, but for now it's confidential. I'm only telling you because I think it would be good for Fluttershy to hear this."
We all pantomime the Pinkie Promise routine, wondering what on earth Twilight's going to tell us.
After taking a deep breath, Twilight starts. "Since becoming princess, I've learned a few things," she says. "In particular, there are some… secrets Celestia and Luna don't let reach public ears. Don't get the wrong idea—they aren't terrible secrets. Just things that could be… controversial. That pose more of a risk to the princesses' veneer of respectability than anything else." She looks outside. "Both princesses want to slowly reveal those secrets to the public. They think society is ready. They're tired of being used as models for high society behavior they don't even agree with, and they're tired of the pressure of hiding that. That's one of the reasons I was made princess—they felt they needed someone with a different perspective to help make their regime more transparent."
Twilight looks at me. "Given the circumstances, I don't think Celestia would mind you knowing this." She pauses. "Tell me. Have you ever wondered how Equestria, a small, peaceful nation, has so consistently managed to keep dragons, who are aggressive, nomadic, and nearly impossible to control, from bothering us?"
"A display of strength?" Rainbow Dash guesses.
Twilight scoffs. "You could call it that."
Rarity's eyes widen. "Wait, you're not suggesting—"
"I am," Twilight says. "Back in the earliest days of Equestria, Celestia had to negotiate with the dragons so that they'd recognize our country. It wasn't easy. We had so many natural resources they were after, and they had no hierarchical government, just a bunch of nomadic tribes. Everything seemed hopeless. But then, something happened. Celestia had been meeting one of the dragons in secret, and one night, at the darkest hour, she ended up making love to him." She smiles. "Strangely enough, it turned out to be what turned the tables. Until then, no one, not a single person from any other species had successfully consummated their love with a dragon. It was the only thing that sufficiently impressed the tribes to listen to her. It's probably the only reason they honor her requests to this day."
Rainbow Dash's jaw hangs open. "You mean Celestia sold her body for negotiations!?"
Twilight shakes her head. "No, that's not it at all," she says. "In fact, she was sure it would hurt her cause, and did everything she could to hide it. I mean, we still don't know about it, right? And, when she told me about it, the look in her eyes…" She looks at me. "She was in love, Fluttershy. Do you realize what that means? "
My eyes widen. "It can't be…"
"It is! If you're attracted to things completely different from ponies, don't beat yourself up about it, because so is Celestia!" Twilight says. "And if she hadn't succumbed to temptation, hadn't given into that night of supposed depraved passion, we wouldn't be here! There's nothing to be ashamed about! Nothing at all!"
Everyone blushes. I'm a bit past that. I don't think anything could have aroused me as much as what Twilight said right now. Picturing Celestia meeting up with that dragon in the heat of the night, coquettishly nuzzling against him, the mood subtly becoming more steamy as they give into their deepest desires, one by one…
I stand up. It's too much. In the span of a few seconds, I've gained more hope than I ever expected to get in a lifetime, and it came in the form of a waking wet dream. Because if Celestia's done it, then that means… that means…
"I'm… I'm not…" I stammer, before looking away. "I'm sorry, I have to…"
I run out before I can see anyone's reactions. The feelings coursing through me are unlike anything I've ever felt before.
Because finally, finally, I feel like I'm not scum.
And I don't know what that means.
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Well, that was much more than I thought it would be.
Wow. That was very unexpected. I almost feel like I could accept bestiality now.
You know who else is pushing the boundaries
I like things with thought. This has thought. It's in Equestria, so it's interesting to see how magical colored everything is lovey dovey ponies would take on this topic. I don't know if I agree with it one way or the other, but I like that it exists. Thanks for writing and posting. I think, assuming you can get people to read and get it, it might make the world a better place on some small scale.
It's also interesting to note that canonically speaking, a great many animals in Equestria display a high degree of intelligence and a fairly nuanced understanding of pony speech (even if they can't actually speak Pony), and that Fluttershy has little difficulty understanding when many animals "speak" (up to and including, as Mr. Beaverton demonstrated, recognizing foul language). As such, it seems to me that screwing an animal in Equestria is not significantly different from screwing, say, a Griffon who doesn't speak Pony, save for the fact that the griffon could learn Pony if it wanted to.
Logically, then one may conclude that being against zoophilia in Equestria may be not only speciesist, but ableist as well...
Welp... that was... something...? I expected comedic story about Fluttershy expressing herself as a pony into bestiality. What I got was something else... but not in a bad way. It's just... different. It was sincere -- I guess you could say that? -- and kind of sad. It shows Fluttershy trying to open up to her friends about being a zoophile, and how she knew her friends wouldn't treat her like how society treats zoophile.
Anyways, I didn't quite like it. But then again, it was because I had my expectation high for this story; so high it was for a different kind of story.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the people who downvoted this were all like, "eww, beasty porno."
They should read it.
5407383 Those people are stupid. it's clearly rated T. Not clop...though I was hesitant to read it until the author pointed that out.
BITCHES NEED TO READ THE TRIGGER WARNINGS
Eww.
Aww.
I have two friends who are into bestiality in real life. I figure I spend enough time fantasizing about Trixie that I'm in no position to judge someone else because she wants to fuck a stallion.
Huh. Read the description, expected a trollfic. Got a perfectly nice, well-written, respectful and thoughtful story instead. I'm okay with this.
Only quibble I'd have is that Fluttershy is canonically able to speak with and understand every normal animal she's met, so the question of consent is actually perfectly clear.
My problem is that it's literally /ALWAYS/ Applejack authors write as the one who has absolutely no tolerance for anything out of the norm. I can't tell if it's social inclination to believe Southern-types are all judgmental redneck fundies or if she's not 'special' enough to be kosher with whatever crazy thing one of the girls is into in the respective story.
If anything, I'd expect it more of Rarity or Twilight, given the rigid nature of their particular adherences.
Other than that, very good story.
I'm confused, doesn't the fact the Fluttershy can talk to animals negate the whole 'can't give consent' point? Why did nobody mention that?
There was a group of people I used to talk with from youtube, a group called "The Round Table". One of the topics that came up was consent in bestiality and if animals were, in fact, capable of consent. The discussion started out jokingly enough, as most topics as controversial as it tend to do, but it turned into an honest discussion that lasted three hours.
It took a while to get passed the "indignation and disgust don't constitute arguments" factor but the two sides got hung up on animal's lack of sapience equated to their inability to consent. One side argued in favor of aggressive/passive acceptance and invitation, while the other argued in favor of the inability to process and comprehend.
Emotional arguments had to be put aside, which was no easy task that some of us couldn't do, but in the end it was a good discussion. One that I wish most people had the maturity to tackle most every other topic with.
While I'm not a fan of zoophiles, I'm also not going to use force or aggression against their choices, so long as no humans or animals are being hurt or forced against their will. Pretty much my stance on anything, really.
Now, association with the individual? That would be another matter.
In Equestria? Well, most animals seem capable of giving consent. Even butterflies can understand pony speech.
In real life? I can think of very few animals that could possibly be considered intelligent enough to give consent, and not many of those are capable of engaging in sexual activity with humans. Add in the dubiousness of an animal giving "consent" and its owner not giving consent (a possible circumstance), and you have very limited possible bestiality.
Of course, I disagree for personal reasons, but by my own admission these reasons lack logical arguments in their favor.
GOD DAMN YOU PETA!!!! YOU GOT FLUTTERSHY!!!! AAH DAMN YOU!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!
5407731
Even if someone did mention it though, there are still arguments to be made against it. Namely, that despite them being arguably more intelligent than real-life animals, the Equestrian animals are still just that; animals. They can be trained to do whatever you want, and Fluttershy's ability to speak to them puts her in the most optimal position to train them to give consent. Like an abused wife, the animals might just defend her by 'necessity', because saying "yes" feels safer/more rewarding for them than the alternative.
Secondly, since she's the only one shown so far with the ability to speak with the animals, there would be no real way to confirm that the animals do, in fact, consent; she's the only one with the power to understand them, and she could just lie about what they say if she was so inclined.
But in the end, this is all still a matter of trust; these arguments only have footing if her friends don't trust Fluttershy to do the right thing. And they obviously do, for the most part. Having it mentioned would probably only have padded the story's length with another round of "do you X", "no", which we already had enough variations of to get the point across.
This was a lot less base than I was expecting. Nice touch with the Celestia/dragon bit.
Well, uhh... I guess it's cool if you're into that kind of thing. Just don't talk about it around me, unless you also like being covered in whatever I had for lunch that day.
5407662 I think Rarity and Twilight are kind of forced to be more accepting of things. You have the whole unicorn supremacy thing going on, so to counter the image that gives the not racist unicorns they love and tolerate everything.
Spike walks in to the room with a tray of refreshments and sees that every eye is staring at him as Rarity's sweating bullets.
"Wasup? Rarity why's every one so up tight? Where's Fluttershy? Rarity?"
Ponies are animals. A pony being sexually attracted to animals isn't bestiality.
5408662 Humans are animals too
5408990 They are indeed but we aren't talking about humans now are we?
5409053 Uh...
5408390
Yet Rarity tries to belong to the 'social elite', where if you're seen putting one hoof out of line with what they approve of you are pretty much torn to pieces and left for dead reputation and business-wise. And Twilight has /always/ been a big political figure as the personal protege of the ruler of the entire nation regardless of her not having been part of politics until super-recently.
This has one of the best endings of any story I've read. Content and arguments aside, I liked this piece a lot.
5407905 You make some good points there. I guess it would have just made the story longer, it just seemed an obvious point that was completely ignored. You're right though, it makes little difference in the end.
5409053
Yes, but in this case, we are talking about anthropomorphized animals that can speak, read, write, use tools, and do pretty much anything a normal human being would do short of casting magical spells.
So logically, the ethics involving humans and bestiality should apply to this world as much as it does in ours.
5410954 By the strictest definitions Humans are basically animals to.
5407018 This actually made me look that stuff up, and beastiality it the act of forcefully having sexual relations with animals. Zoophilia is "The act of having sexual relations with a consenting animal"...
How vulgarly depraved, "consent" is the standard to measure an actions morality. What next child molesting validation? For Pete's sake I cannot think of anything else more depraved which had not already been accepted by this diseased
modern society.
5410967
Yes but Human have can defy instinct easily, something that animals required to be trained or etc. Since ponies are very similar to human in all but body and biology, ponies are pretty much like us.
5412083 Except for the fact that they aren't.
5412095
Didn't I pretty much write that ponies are similar to us in all but body and biology? (But seeing I didn't put MLP ponies, yes)
5410967
I'm sorry, did you even read what I just typed?
While we humans are indeed animals, we're in a league of our own, with vast differences between us and the rest of nature. In fact, I think one of the most profound differences (besides the ones I've already listed, of course) is the mere fact that we realize that our behavior is animalistic, and that we throughout history have tried to transcend, if not redirect such behavior towards positive ends.
So yeah, humans are animals, but we're animals made with the essence of the divine.
5412157 There is literally nothing divine about mankind. Take one look at the world and you'll see we are more savage an animal then most actual animals.
5412193
Yeah, most of the animals I've met were certainly more intelligent than most of the people.
5412546 Never seen a Squirrel kidnapp a baby squirrel rape it murder it then bury the body in the park. They don't need to be more intelligent then us to be less vile scum then us.
5412193
Which is what I said, we are animals, we are savages, but we recognize it and try to improve ourselves. That is the whole purpose of evolution in a nutshell, to become a better being.
As for the whole divine bit, if we aren't divine, then why are we repulsed by acts of rape and murder? Why are we disgusted by acts that are considered normal within the animal kingdom?
5408662
This obviously never comes up in our world with one sapient species (us), but in fantasy and/or scifi settings, any sapient (usually language-using) species getting it on with a non-sapient species is usually considered bestiality/zoophilia.
5411163
By technical definiton, the terms "bestiality" and "zoophilia" are essentially interchangeable, but most zoophiles will probably tell you that "zoophilia" is the attraction and "bestiality" is the act of raping animals.
One thing that stood out to me about this story was Fluttershy's statement that she will only go along with animals that initiate contact. A lot of animals, most notably dolphins, and to a lesser extent dogs and horses, will try to initiate sexual contact with humans. And if prompted by a human, many are likely to follow through.
As for the issue of consent, people often say that animals cannot speak, and therefore cannot consent. But few people argue about a mute person's ability to consent based on the same issue. Animals can accept or reject sapient partners through body language just fine. But this is a moot point anyway in regards to Equestrian animals.
As for it supposedly not being natural, just as there are plenty of records of animals engaging in homosexual behavior, there have also been numerous observations of interspecies sex in the animal kingdom. After all, where else would we get ligers, zorses, and mules?
In short, I thought this was an excellent fic, and I wish that more people took a stance like this toward zoosexuality; they might think it's icky, but that doesn't mean it's immoral or wrong, and they shouldn't make snap judgements without first getting the facts.
5407018
I must say, this being the first comment on the story basically made my day. I thought everyone would hate this thing when I submitted it. I never dreamed it could come close to changing even one person's mind.
So I've got to thank you. This comment probably gave me more confidence in my writing than any other feedback I've ever received.
5407154
Me, presumably? :p
You know, I actually wasn't even sure moderation would let this story pass.
5407259
Yeah, the title and short description are kind of misleading. That was a gamble on my part. Basically, my plan was this: I thought that if people thought they story was a terrible sex comedy, their expectations would be a lot lower, so when they read this, they would more inclined to like it. Kind of underhanded, but I felt I needed every advantage I could take with this story.
For the most part, it appears to be working in my favor, but I'm not surprised it's disappointed some people.
5407383
I wouldn't go that far. I think there are legitimate reasons people would not like this story or its points.
5407615
I'd be curious what they think of the story. I did quite a bit of research into zoophilia, and tried to describe the attraction as accurately as I could.
5407662
I actually haven't read many stories where Applejack has been portrayed as bigoted, and I certainly did not want to give the impression she's not accepting in this story because she's a redneck. With this story, it kind of came down to a process of elimination.
Twilight judging Fluttershy was never even a possibility for me. Twilight's intellectual curiosity was the main factor here. She would probably find an new, almost completely unexplored sexuality fascinating. And, you know, I sort of feel the same way. Look at people's reactions to this story. With properly constructed arguments, you can make a lot of people question their hatred of zoophilia in minutes. Twilight would love that. In addition, her being basically the embodiment of everything friendship made it seem unlikely that she would abandon one of her friends for trusting her with a secret. Even if Fluttershy had told her about something even worse, like thinking about killing people, I feel like Twilight would not judge her for it, but try to help her.
Originally, I had Rarity judge Fluttershy for it, but I didn't like how that turned out. It seemed way too clichéd, and it made Rarity seem very shallow. I felt like that's what readers would expect me to do with her, so I wanted to subvert that, and present more favorable interpretation of her character. Not everything high-class has to be bigoted, after all. In addition, I couldn't make her objections sound anything but contrived and petty. ("Why, my Opal would never want to do those things with a pony!")
(5408390 Them trying not to be racist because they're unicorns never even occurred to me. For one, I don't think shaming people into being accepting works in the real world.)
I actually toyed with the idea of Pinkie Pie being the most bothered by Fluttershy coming out. That didn't work, though. It seemed much more likely that she would be basically impossible of judging anyone for anything, and the alternative was having her turn catatonic through the whole story, which was depressing.
The reason I had Applejack freak out was it legitimately seemed like she had the best reason to. For one, while she's a loyal friend, she's the Elements of Honesty. That has a good and the bad side. If she has a problem with something, she's going to say it, even if she regrets it later. Remember, Rarity says, "If I had trusted my gut, I might have said something similar." There's an implication that most of them were thinking what Applejack said, they just didn't say it. In addition, I feel that in real life, the strongest opposition to zoophilia would come from people that work with animals professionally, because they would have the strongest feelings about what "natural" relations with an animal are. I mean, we can have an armchair debate all we like, but it'd be pretty hard to deflect someone who works with animals and is like, "What's wrong with you people!?"
So yeah, that was a bit long, but that might answer some other people's questions about the characterization in the story. I hope that helps.
5407731
5407905
I think that's a good point, and it might've been a bit sloppy that I didn't address it.
One reason I didn't was I couldn't figure out how to do so without sounding awkward. I mean, if I had Fluttershy say something like, "Well, actually, animals think about sleeping with ponies more than you'd think," it kind of just makes it sound like all the animals and Equestria are sluts. Also, how would the rest of the mane six even ask about it? "What did the animals say about your sex, anyway?" Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I feel like it would have been really hard to address that issue in a way that wasn't goofy.
(5407905 In addition, I do kind of agree that, if Fluttershy is the only one in Equestria that can talk to animals, that's basically the same as no one being able to talk to animals, because no one can back up her claims. I didn't think of that, but that's a good point.)
Honestly, I've always thought her being able to talk to animals was mostly metaphorical, and it really just means that she can understand their needs better than other people. The exceptions, like Mr. Beaver's cursing, seem to be jokes and cartoon logic more than anything. That's interpretation I went with them the story, even if it contradicts canon slightly.
The main thing, though, is I think it would kind of make the story too distant from the real world. If there's another world where animals can talk, yeah, that makes the consent question a lot easier. But that's not our world, and I wanted to make readers think about our world.
5407903
Actually, if I remember right, PETA was, at one point, pro-zoophilia. Their president is credited as saying, "If a girl gets sexual pleasure from riding a horse, does the horse suffer? If not, who cares? If you French kiss your dog and he or she thinks it's great, is it wrong? We believe all exploitation and abuse is wrong…If it isn't exploitation and abuse, it may not be wrong."
They've since changed their mind, of course (apparently from the beginning to end of that article), but still, the more you know.
5408280
5409490
Thanks. I was worried the ending was too much dues ex machina, and I'm glad it didn't seem like that.
5408662
That's actually the only reason the story has the Anthro tag, despite there not been any references to hands or feet whatsoever. :p
5411841
Actually, in an earlier draft, I addressed this.
In that version of the story, bestiality is illegal in Equestria, and Twilight ends up going to Celestia to change the law and save Fluttershy. Celestia refuses to have anything to do with the change. After pressing her about it, Twilight realizes this is because Celestia has struggled with pedophiliac urges her entire immortal life, and is so terrified of giving in to them that she doesn't want to risk making any sexual deviance more acceptable. I was going to use that to explore the idea that acceptance has limits, and sometimes, even the person affected doesn't want to accept their identity.
I decided against it because it was grimdark as fuck, and seemed like it would work much better as a separate story.
I'll probably never write it, though, because it's too damn depressing.
5411163
These are the definitions I discovered, and the ones that I believe in personally:
Zoophilia/Zoosexuality/a couple other words no one actually uses: Sexual attraction to animals. (Possibly an orientation. That's the possibility the story explores.)
Bestiality: The actual act of having sex with an animal.
Beastiality: Bestiality for those without spellcheck.
Bestialist: Someone who sexually abuses animals.
Zoosadism: Sexual attraction to animal abuse, sexual or otherwise.
5412755
Dolphins do stuff like that. This guy actually addressed it in one of his MLP comics.
They're also known for initiating sexual contact with humans, to the point where someone was apparently acquitted after having sex with a dolphin because the court determined the dolphin was of legally consenting age. (I don't have a source for that because I read it in a fairly obscure book and don't really feel like googling "dolphin sex" at the moment.)
5412951 Because we aren't? The amount of terrible vile shit that goes on in the world dwarfs the good kind acts 100 to 1.
5413009 And isn't it strange that dolphins are considered to be one of the smartest animals on the planet? Seems like the better your upper brain becomes the more destructive impulses you have to fight down.
5412987
I saw this in the "Latest Submissions" box, and figured, hell, this'll probably be some mediocre clop/comedy story. So here I am, reading the thing, and...
Shit, man. This was...
The only word I can find that fits this story is "powerful." But it's more than that, because it's so well-applied. You wrote exactly what needed to be said to get your point across, yet you did it without alienating an audience. The comedy is small, and only used when it's needed to keep the tone from going too dark. The feels... This is really fantastic work. Better than very nearly all of the things I've read on this site.
It's a perfect story. Never let anyone tell you otherwise.
EDIT: I read your latest comment, and while I believe that that would make a fantastic story, it is much, much darker. I'm glad you didn't incorporate it, because to make this any longer would ruin it.
So I am to understand that you wrote this gem as a non-zoophile? I am impressed by your ability to capture many of the subtle nuances of the pro-zoophilia argument. Well done.
5412987
Trust me, you got the cliche on who's the judgmental one mixed up between AJ and Rarity. Rarity tends to be written as the "Well... it's not quite my sort of thing, but as long as it makes you happy!" Or the "Just try not to shout it from the rooftops, darling. It would certainly damage your reputation." Or the more common she just accepts whatever the conflict is (being gay, usually) or admits she's either tried her hoof at it or counts herself in their shoes.
It's been at least a hundred now that I've read personally (so there obviously must be a great deal more with a number like that) where Applejack is written as the one who has strict, almost real-world religious-type morals and can't brook anything untoward from her friends. Be they attracted to a different species, hooking up with other pony races, being gay, different philosophies, etc. She's treated as the quintessential redneck who 'makes exceptions for her friends' up until a certain point where they make her uncomfortable with confessions of their difference. She's always the first one to rail, always the first one to walk out, the first one to question if they can remain friends, the first one to get angry and start the "'Tain't natural!" rants and the other girls usually have to pull her apart from Dash who leaps to her own/whoever else's defense because Dash is /never/ written to be the one who objects and that too, is a little old. Many others tend to use the excuse of Dash's Element of Loyalty as a reason why they don't do anything mean with "precious" Dash, but I'm not seeing that here with you. But I digress.
Now, all-in-all, this is just me complaining from this whole cliche we've got going on in this community. It's not a knock against you as a writer or your story - which I enjoyed! Upvoted, tracked in case there's a continuation. It just annoys me because I don't know why people do it. Is it just because Applejack isn't whacky or zany or with enough silly powers to justify as treating her as more than the conflict? Is it because of her Southern stylization? Do they just not like her?
I have literally seen ONE story where AJ was actually completely accepting off the bat (Clarification: One story where this happens where the story is an actual meaty story, and not just a one-shot shipfic where everyone is automatically happy for whoever/whatever). It was heartwarming for me, and interesting because it ended up being Pinkie and Fluttershy who could not reconcile with the differences due to their poor childhood teachings. Like a breath of fresh air, you know?
Any way, again, mostly just confusion and a bit of annoyance as to why people do that. You've explained your headcanon, and I both respect that and don't see a need to lump you in with the people who vex me.
5413020
Which is precisely why we value good, because it is a scarce commodity. My own people have experienced pretty much every atrocity imaginable, from the Roman coliseums, to the cossack pogroms, to the Holocaust. And yet, in spite of all that (in fact, precisely because of it), we still believe in humankind's capability for improvement.
While humans are capable of great evil, which we see every day, they are also capable of great good. As mans evil on this earth intensifies, there will always be people who'll be disgusted by it and will move towards the opposite direction. Every reaction begets an equal and opposite reaction.
Furthermore, my original argument was that you can't justify bestiality by humans and ponies by saying "since we're also animals, it's okay" because ponies and humans have characteristics that drive a divide between them and animals. It's also similar to saying that murder is okay because animals do it. It sets a bad precedent.
But I can see that this argument is getting nowhere with you. I have said my piece, and now I will leave in peace. I wish you well.
5413606 Don't play the jew card against a jew sir it won't get you anywhere.