The Morning After
When awareness first returned to her, Sunset felt pretty good, all things considered. That changed very fast when she realized the ground beneath her was moving and deforming under her weight.
She resisted the urge to bolt upright, and instead started to take an inventory of her body while pretending to still be asleep.
Her fingers and toes were still intact, though her toes protested a bit because she was still wearing her boots. She had various aches and pains, but nothing unexpected. Actually, considering she'd been blasted by one of the most powerful magical artifacts in the history of Equestria, she would have expected to have rather more discomfort than usual.
It wasn't hard to figure out why the ground was so disturbingly not-solid. She was in a bed of some sort. Not just any bed either. A warm bed with actual sheets on it. If she had come here, wherever here was, to go to sleep, all of that would be great. When it came to waking up, though, it was concerning. Why would she be in a bed?
She didn't exactly have an overabundance of people who would let her crash at their places. Also, if some mysterious bed-giver had appeared out of nowhere, Sunset would have taken off her boots before going to sleep.
It wasn't that she was unaccustomed to sleeping in them, it was just that --since she rarely had the opportunity to take them off-- taking them off would have been almost immediate if she'd been given a warm place to stay.
The alternative to a mysterious benefactor, however, didn't make sense any either. If someone with ill intent had taken her, they'd have dumped her on the floor. Probably inside a closet. Likely with the door locked.
People did not, so far as Sunset knew, keep beds in closets.
Since this was going nowhere, Sunset opened her eyes. She was alone for the moment. No reason not to take a look at her surroundings.
There was nothing familiar, but also nothing that stood out as threatening. As she allowed herself to examine the room more, she actually found it to be incredibly generic.
After getting out of the bed as quietly as she could, Sunset looked for anything she could use to defend herself.
Soon after, she was walking down a hallway while armed only with a lamp. The hallway had more character --it was painted sky blue with accents in every color-- but it didn't tell her much. Anyone who liked clear skies and rainbows, which was sort of an odd combination when you thought about it, could live here.
The hall ended in an open plan kitchen/dining room/living room. At first she thought this area was empty too, but a closer look revealed familiar rainbow hair peaking over the back of the couch in the living room section.
“Rainbow Dash?” Sunset asked in confusion as she let her arms drop to her sides.
~ ~ ~
Rainbow Dash gave a startled yelp, and her whole body jolted involuntarily. It wasn't the best introduction ever, so she took a moment to compose herself and make sure she'd look cool and calm before she greeted Sunset.
In a single smooth and, she hoped, casual-seeming motion she transitioned from the jumble she'd been in to a sort of kneeling position, with her left arm draped over the back of the couch, that allowed to look in Sunset's direction. As she did that, she said,
“Hey you're--” and the rest of the sentence was forgotten, because now that she could see Sunset, she had an entirely unrelated topic on her mind, “Why're you holding a lamp?”
“I woke up in a strange place,” Sunset said as though that explained everything, “I didn't know where I was or who I might be facing.”
“And your first thought was to pick up a desk lamp?” Rainbow asked.
“Yes, because your guest room is absolutely brimming with defensive weapons,” Sunset said. If her tone hadn't conveyed her extreme annoyance, the exasperated gesture she made with her non-lamp hand would have gotten the point across on its own.
Rainbow attempted not to laugh. She utterly failed. What ended up coming out started with a snort and ended with a snicker. It wasn't the smoothest transition in the history of laughter, and neither was it quick.
“Are you finished?” Sunset asked.
“Not sure,” Rainbow said.
In a quick movement that was part flip and part roll, she deposited herself behind the couch, so that she was standing facing Sunset with nothing between them.
In other circumstances she probably would have made a bigger deal out of what went into that roll flip. Right now, however, there was a lamp-wielding Sunset Shimmer asking her whether or not she was done laughing, and that took precedence.
Rainbow said, “I'll have to check what's on the agenda,” and instantly regretted it. If there had been a laughter-related agenda, that comment wouldn't be on it.
Sunset seemed to agree. “Truly, you are a comedic genius.”
Rainbow said, “Thank you,” as though Sunset had been sincere, because she didn't know what else to do.
After that, it seemed that Sunset didn't have anything to say. Rainbow didn't either. Well, that wasn't quite true. She had questions, but they weren't things you started a conversation with.
A few seconds passed in silence. Maybe having the couch hiding most of her body had been a good thing. Rainbow was in danger of becoming fidgety, and that was most definitely not awesome.
Sunset seemed to have taken up an interest in ceiling tiles. Possibly the number or arrangement of ceiling tiles rather than the tiles themselves. Definitely something ceiling-related. Given that that wasn't an ordinary thing for Sunset to do, Rainbow figured that she wasn't the only one finding this whole thing awkward.
The silence had to be broken somehow, so Rainbow asked, “If you weren't expecting to see me when you woke up . ? .” and realized that it probably would have helped if she had actually had a question before asking. With that in mind, Rainbow settled on, “Well, what do you remember?”
~ ~ ~
Figuring it was best to just get it over with, Sunset said, “You mouthed off when I was about to surrender, I decided that I'd get the crown just to spite you, it turns out that twisting an Element of Harmony to your whims when you're pissed off is a bad idea, things went pear shaped, there were rainbows, I was reduced to tears, Rarity wants an apology for the Spring Fling, Pinkie Pie apparently thinks that running face first into solid stone is a good idea, and I took up bricklaying as a hobby.”
“And after that?” Rainbow asked.
Sunset closed her eyes and attempted to call up any additional memories. None came. She was laying bricks, then . . .
“Not a thing,” she said.
“I think that Luna was making you stay and work so that she could keep an eye on you,” Rainbow said. “It's not a bad idea in theory but she's only one person and I saw kids holing up in places she wouldn't notice them.”
That was just silly. Sunset said as much. She didn't actually say those words, but she did say, “Kids were holing up? Is there a war or natural disaster, of which I was unaware, presently ongoing?” which meant the same thing.
“They were waiting for you,” Rainbow said. “You didn't think everyone would be satisfied with just a tearful apology, did you?”
“Of course not,” Sunset said, then walked in a small semicircle so she was looking at the wall instead of Rainbow. Things weren't going to go well, that much was obvious.
Sunset sighed. “That doesn't explain why I'm at your house.”
“Escort duty.”
“Assigned by whom?”
“Kinda gave myself the job.”
Ok, that was definitely believable, except for one thing. “I would have said, 'No.'”
“I uh,” Rainbow started, “I didn't give you a choice.”
That got Sunset's attention. The idea was so absurd that she nearly laughed as she turned around to face Rainbow again. When she was looking the other girl in the eyes, Sunset asked, “You kidnapped me?” in disbelief.
“No,” Rainbow said. “I threatened to kidnap you, then we hammered out an arrangement whereby you'd let me take you to your home if I bought you dinner.”
That brought things back to not making sense. It wasn't that what Rainbow was saying seemed unreasonable, but, much like before, there was one tiny detail that threw the whole thing into doubt.
“This is not where I live.”
“Good,” Rainbow cracked smile, an impish little thing, before continuing with, “because if you'd been living here all this time, and I never noticed, I would be very disturbed.”
“So . . .” Sunset said. That was all she said, because it should have been enough. It wasn't.
“So what?” Rainbow asked with the kind of 'innocent' look that is only ever employed by people who know exactly what they're guilty of and are proud of it.
“How did I get here?” Sunset asked. She had to make an effort not to growl. Apparently, not being an asshole was more difficult than it appeared from the outside.
“When we were stopped at a red light, you ran off through the woods so you could eat pizza out of a dumpster.”
Sunset nodded. That made sense, especially because, “That does sound like me.”
There was a beat of silence, then Rainbow asked, “What do you have against pepperoni?” as though it were the most serious and important topic in the world.
How Sunset answered really depended on what Rainbow already knew, so she asked, “Did Twilight Sparkle tell you where we come from?”
“Pony Princess land?” Rainbow said in a way that was clearly more question than answer.
That made things easier. If Rainbow knew 'pony' instead of 'human', then she was probably ready to accept that things might be vastly different on the other side.
“Equestria has animals that look like the ones you have here,” Sunset explained, “but when it comes to cognition they couldn't be more different.”
Sunset took a breath, decided to massively oversimplify things --Rainbow was asking about pepperoni not neuroscience, after all-- and said, “Short version: you might as well be eating people if you eat meat other than fish.”
What followed was the first time Sunset had ever seen Rainbow utterly horrified. Her 'we're all gonna die' face actually looked serene in comparison.
That was not what Sunset wanted to do. It wasn't just that Rainbow had been reasonably nice so far, in spite of having so very many reasons not to be. It was also . . . everything. It was warmth. It was a bed. It was how they weren't talking about what Sunset had done, and tried to do, before the bricklaying last night.
Because of all those things and more, breaking Rainbow Dash's brain was not on the agenda for the day.
Rainbow started to ask, “But here they're not--”
“No, they're not,” Sunset answered, “but that doesn't mean I suddenly want to eat things I spent my entire childhood thinking of as . . . that.”
“Ok,” Rainbow said quickly. “Good.”
Rainbow nodded to herself. When she said, “I was worried there for a second,” it looked and sounded like she had completely recovered from her Soylent Green moment.
That was good. Now Sunset could leave without anything new to feel guilty about, and leaving sounded really good right now. There hadn't been all that much to say, they' said most of it, and she was still holding a damned lamp. There was, she was pretty sure, only one question left to ask, “What happened after the peperoni?”
“You started to give an impromptu lecture on magic,” Rainbow said, “and then you fell asleep.”
Sunset tilted her head to the side as she said, “Oh.”
A few moments later she added, “That does explain why I'm here, I guess.”
Sunset was reasonably sure that that covered everything. She looked around, though she wasn't entirely sure why she did. She didn't think of anything else.
She lifted the lamp a bit and looked it over.
“Thanks for not leaving me in the parking lot,” she said to Rainbow. “I'll . . . put this lamp back, now.”
Sunset turned around and headed back to the guest room.
~ ~ ~
Rainbow hadn't realized she'd been expecting anything, and still didn't know what she'd been expecting, but she must have been expecting something, because she was absolutely sure that this was so very much not the unknown thing that she'd been expecting.
As she started to follow Sunset, Rainbow said the first thing that came to mind, “That's it?”
Sunset kept walking down the hall, she didn't look back or break her stride when she answered with, “All of my questions are answered, everything makes sense,” she reached the guest room door and went in, “so yeah: that's it.”
When Rainbow entered the guest room the lamp was already in place and Sunset was performing the contortions necessary to actually plug it in. Rainbow wasn't sure whether it was the outlet or the desk, but something was placed in just the wrong way, which is why the outlet in question was generally considered a lost cause.
That wasn't important at the moment, though. It was just easier to think about than the fact that Sunset, who had seemed pretty normal, lamp notwithstanding, earlier was now acting in way that screamed, 'Abnormal!'
Rainbow didn't know how to approach that, and she fell back on some questions she wanted answered, “How about why you were eating out of a dumpster--”
“It's where the food is,” Sunset said.
“--why you were undernourished enough to pass out--”
“That wasn't about nutrition, it was about the magic,” Sunset said. She had said as much last night, but Rainbow was pretty sure that wasn't the whole truth.
“--and where you live?”
“Wherever I want to,” Sunset said. A moment later she gave a grunt, then announced, “And it's in.”
As Sunset slid out from under the desk, Rainbow said, “Sunset . . .” in a way that she hoped would be gentle and friendly enough to turn the suddenly snippy back and forth into a conversation again.
Unfortunately, Rainbow's attempt at 'gentle and friendly' happened to coincide with 'slow', which allowed to Sunset to interrupt with, “Rainbow . . .” said in the same way Rainbow had spoken her name.
Rainbow pinched the bridge of her nose and tried to remember if she was stocked up on headache medicine. She said, “. . . if you're from another world--”
“Then I'm here illegally, yes,” Sunset said as she got back on her feet.
Rainbow hadn't thought about that at all, and didn't plan to start now. She tried to get things back on track, “That's not--”
Sunset cut Rainbow off again; it was annoying, “After everything else you've learned about me,” Sunset checked that the lamp turned the lamp on and off, which it did, “I fail to see how that would be surprising.”
At this point Rainbow wasn't sure if Sunset was actively trying to be aggravating, or if that just came naturally to her. Regardless, Rainbow finally got to the question she'd been trying to ask, “--where do you live?”
“Already answered that one,” Sunset said as she headed toward the hall.
Rainbow considered pointing out that Sunset's answer had answered nothing, but decided to drop that point and move on. She asked, “Who do you live with?”
This time Sunset did actually stop walking to answer. More than that, she actually turned and made eye contact.
“Rainbow, you've known me for years,” she said. “Do you honestly think I could cohabitate with someone for any length of time without one of us killing the other?”
Then she turned right back around and walked out of the room. Rainbow followed.
Because it was the most straightforward way to approach things, Rainbow responded the way she would have if Sunset had said the same thing in a normal conversation, “This isn't a joke.”
“I don't know,” Sunset said, “after last night I'm kind of feeling like a punchline.”
Rainbow thought that statement over for a moment, just to check, then said, “I'm not convinced that makes sense.”
“A demon unicorn redeemed by weaponized rainbows walks into a bar . . .” Sunset said.
“That's a premise, not a punchline.”
“. . . and she gets kicked right back out because the bouncer thinks she's a human . . .”
“And that definitely doesn't make sense,” Rainbow said.
“No,” Sunset said, as she reached the front door. “And humans aren't allowed to drink until a ridiculous age.”
While largely beside the point, Rainbow felt obligated to tell Sunset exactly what she thought of the alleged 'joke', “If there's such thing as the opposite of funny--”
“Goodbye, Rainbow Dash,” Sunset said as she left.
Rainbow followed her out the door then picked up where she'd left off, “--that's it. It's not even a bad joke, it's just . . . nothing.”
Sunset stopped and turned around, which left her standing in the middle of the street. Rainbow was still on the sidewalk.
“That's not the joke,” Sunset said.
Rainbow couldn't tell what it was --it could have been her voice, her expression, her body language, or something else entirely-- but something about Sunset was different. It was not different in a good way.
Whatever it was, it was disturbing. It was like looking at an injured limb hanging at an unnatural angle. It was deeply, unnervingly wrong.
“The joke is that I'm standing here,” Sunset said, her volume just below a shout. “A unicorn in a world with no magic. An adult in a world that thinks adults are children because how the fuck can you people not realize that teenagers are old enough to look out for themselves? The personal apprentice of a very real, and very powerful, God-Princess in a world where gods are naught but legends and princesses are impotent figureheads.”
Rainbow thought that Sunset's eyes were on the brink of tears, though she wasn't completely sure. Sunset kept going, “The joke is that everything I am is made for another world and nothing about me belongs in this place. I'm the non-sequitur. I'm the thing that doesn't fit and makes no sense that you stick at the end of the joke to get a cheap laugh.”
Apparently to prove that point, Sunset started quoting a commercial their class had been shown when they covered non-sequiturs and other calculated forms of randomness, “'Anything is possible when your man smells like Old Spice and not a lady,'” Sunset said in a very non-Sunset way. It wasn't hard to see where this was going.
“I'm a horse!” Sunset shouted so loudly that Rainbow was sure it must have hurt.
Rainbow said the word, “So,” slowly, drawing it out while she tried to think of how to respond.
Part of her wanted to say that teenagers shouldn't have to take care of themselves. Rainbow's life, for instance, was only possible because someone else paid the bills. That allowed her concentrate on things like sports.
Part of her wanted to tell Sunset that everything would be all right, though she had no idea if it were true.
Part of her wanted to apologize, though she didn't know what she would be apologizing for.
Part of her wanted to avoid weighty topics entirely and instead mention that she'd completely forgotten about that silly commercial until Sunset quoted it.
There were doubtless other parts that wanted other things, but there was only so much one could think in the span of a single 'so'.
She ended up finishing the sentence with, “. . . you're not taking this well at all,” which was pretty weak and had become painfully obvious.
“I got hit by a magical light show and left in a hole in the ground,” Sunset shouted, “not six months of therapy!”
And they'd gone in a circle, because the only thing Rainbow could think of in response to that was, “I'm not even sure that sentence makes sense.”
“I want,” Sunset said. “To be. Alone.”
Sunset paused.
“Please leave me alone.” She was definitely blinking back tears now.
It wasn't that Rainbow was against that, but she was worried. She took a moment to clear her head. Then she asked, “If I do, am I gonna see you again?”
“Are you being morbid,” Sunset asked in return, “or do you think I'm a flight risk?”
Honestly, Rainbow wasn't sure. She said, “Just . . .” and then gestured as though that would somehow get the point across. It came as no surprise when it didn't. She tried again, “Just tell me.”
“I'll be at school on Monday,” Sunset said. She looked at the ground. “Whether I'll be allowed to attend classes remains to be seen.”
Rainbow believed her, and said, “I'll see you then.”
Sunset didn't look up.
Rainbow wanted to say something else. She didn't know what, but this wasn't how she wanted the conversation to end. It felt like there had to be some better way to part ways.
She couldn't come up with anything.
Sunset, for her part, barely moved. She just kept on looking at the same spot on the ground that she'd been looking at.
Rainbow walked back to her house. Sunset hadn't moved. Rainbow went inside, headed back in the direction of the couch, glanced at the window, then stopped.
Through the curtains, Sunset was a vaguely person-shaped blob. What bothered Rainbow was that Sunset still hadn't moved.
After a few seconds, which felt like an eternity, the Sunset-blob did finally move. When Sunset was on the opposite sidewalk, Rainbow let out a breath she hadn't realized she'd been holding and looked away.
It still didn't feel right to let Sunset go in the state she was in, but Rainbow didn't know what else to do. Also, she was well aware that continuing to watch Sunset would definitely cross the line between being concerned and being creepy, assuming she hadn't already, so she tried to turn her attention to other things.
It took a minute to get her mind moving in the right direction, but she eventually started thinking about the day ahead. She should call her friends and figure out a good time to meet. They still had a lot of catching up to do. Lost time to make up for too.
Of course, they also needed to discuss Sunset, and right now Rainbow wasn't up for that.
Things had seemed pretty good at first, too. Though, truthfully, that was the problem. If it had happened in the opposite order, 'shouty breakdown' first and 'normalish conversation' second, she probably would have had no problem dealing with it. As it was, everything was a mess.
Rainbow walked over to the couch and let herself collapse onto it.
Hey, I wrote a thing.
So here we have emotionally erratic Sunset Shimmer, and "I actually did pay attention in class, and parallel structure does not work that way" Rainbow Dash.
This has gone thorough massive revisions, but not much editing or proofreading. As near as I can tell there's nothing horrifically wrong, buy I wouldn't actually be surprised if there are egregious errors, relics of things that were edited out, or whatnot. (If you spot errors, please tell me in a private message.)
I'm not convinced this is final, or good, or even presentable, but it does exist, and at the moment I'll take what I can get.
The original plan had three things instead of one slow plodding thing. It was supposed to open with Rainbow and Sunset, then show Celestia and Luna, then show the human five figuring out where they stand with respect to Sunset.
Old Spice commercial:
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I didn't expect to see an update so soon. Neat!
Awesome to see this updated. I really enjoy this version of Sunset and Rainbows banter.
very nice to see this fic back
Glad to see another chapter!
I've been headcanoning for a while that the Mane Six's human equivalents are high-school-aged because ponies are considered to reach adulthood faster than humans - but I never stopped to consider Sunset's perspective on that. Wow; you're right.
(Also, I assume Twilight never stopped to consider that either till after the first movie, and then she probably didn't have time to talk about it during the second?)
I guess that explains where Luna was while being off-camera throughout the rest of Season One?
"Nah, you said you were a unicorn, not a pegasus." (Probably not the best thing to say, but I can imagine Rainbow saying it.)
9564894
I know the comics are not canon to the show but they are still more official to pony lore than a lot of things also most Sunset fics do use the comic The Fall of Sunset Shimmer to base some of her past on. Just for refrence by the comics the mane 6 are pushing 30. They got their cutie marks 20 years ago. They travel back in time 20 years to right after it happens. Like I said not canon but semi official.
9565679 I personally don't consider the comics canon, but I'm curious: at what point in the show timeline was this set? It's been eight seasons since things began; I could see them in their early twenties at the beginning and (by the "longer timeline" where each season's a year) pushing thirty now. But they definitely don't act like they were pushing thirty at the beginning of the show.
9566254
Like I said the comics are not canon. The show runners have came out and said as much so we agree there. That's why I mentioned it in my first message. However I would take comic lore as semi official. Basically anything from there as a step above fan created lore but nothing more. I will say that especially in the case of this story comic lore holds a bit of extra sway being its a Sunset story and most authors have adopted the comic The Fall of Sunset Shimmer as the fan fic story canon of her past given we have no other remotely official source thus the other comics in that universe have a bit more tie in. As for when that time travel comic would be set in the show that's really hard to tell. Spike is still a "baby dragon" but since we don't know a dragons life cycle that doesn't tell us much.
[This came out all wrong, and as a result it's been edited a bunch.]
9564894
9565679
My interpretation of ages is based primarily on pony culture and "Non sunt multiplicanda entia sine necessitate" (otherwise known as Occam's Razor.)
If you needed to say that the main ponies are than their counterparts (or if that just made for better stories), then of course you'd go with that. In this case, however, everything fits together fine. Having an age difference complicates things.
(I know Silver_Linings didn't say that. I'm talking about my reasoning, which includes what I think about arguments against it.)
Before I talk about that in depth, I wanted to mention this:
Lauren Faust, the creator of Friendship is Magic, was asked about the main casts ages twice. She thinks of ponies as reaching physical maturity at a younger age than humans (the main ponies all have adult bodies), but not going faster when it comes to growing up mentally. She didn't think of the characters in terms of actual age, but instead in terms of maturity level.
She thought of the characters as having a 12 to 17/18 maturity level.
Given that the ponies are mentally maturing at the same speed as humans, we could extrapolate that and say she said they're high school aged, but that would be fundamentally dishonest because she specifically said that she's doesn't think of them in terms of age.
Ok, time for long winded ranty analysis.
Usually people don't talk about why they have an age difference. They just have it. When people (not always the authors) do say why, they tend to say that it was needed because the ponies must be older.
The most common argument is that the ponies can't be the same age as high school students because if they were they'd be in high school. Which means that they just invented Ponyville High School. They invented Pony High for the sole purpose of having the main characters not go to it.
The logic of the argument is sound, by the way. If you accept that the main characters would go to Pony High if they were high school aged, then the fact that they don't go to pony high is proof that they're not. The problem is the premise. Why assume that Pony High exists when there's no reason for it?
The biggest reason I've seen apart from that is that the main characters look like adult ponies, which is true, and therefore can't be teenagers, which I find disturbing. If teenage ponies don't look like the main cast, then where are all the teenage ponies? Are they stored underground? (Pony High being located in a hole in the ground would explain why we never see it.)
Talking about reasons less common than those to isn't really a good use of time, though it probably is worth pointing out one I haven't seen said but think is pretty common. People thought the ponies were older than high school students before Equestria Girls existed, and they're sticking with that.
Part of the reason it's worth pointing it out is that Equestria Girls is the only reason that "The Ponies are high school age" is simpler than "The ponies aren't high school age." There's nothing in the show that actively contradicts the idea the main six are twenty-something.
A lot of people gravitated toward a twenty something age (well before anyone had even imagined Sunset Shimmer) because the characters very much feel like people who haven't been adults for all that long and that's a good description of traditional college students and recent college graduates.
The thing that jumps out to me, though, is that the age of "people who haven't been adults for all that long" is subject to change. What it means depends on who you are, where you are, and when you are.
Equestria definitely has modern technology (see everything surrounding Vinyl Scratch/DJ-PON3) but it tends to harken back to an earlier time. Well . . . several earlier times. Specifically, a time when instead of the, say, 18 to 26 range of today, recent adults would be more along the lines of 12 to 20.
That, you know, sucks, but it's got a firm basis in how people approach the world. Mostly two things. One was that in a culture where trade skills are more important than manufacturing, starting apprenticeship early can be very important. The other is that, once puberty starts, people can see, "Oh, this kid is changing into a not-kid."
With ponies, all evidence says that they don't have a prolonged adolescence. (Or we're back to teenagers being stored underground where they wont be seen.) A relatively fast switch from looking like the CMC to looking like the Element Bearers would give ponies significantly more reason to consider that age the border between child and humans ever had for doing the same thing.
I stopped the pre-edit version of this post right about there because I should have been unconscious already. It's now even later, so I'm not going to be adding any new content.
9566375
I never meant to argue for any age at all. They could be 6 months old and its just the way ponies work in what ever world they exist in. I don't know their age. Nobody knows their age. That's what I was trying to say. There is no canon age that has ever been given other than Fluttershy is one year older than Pinkie Pie. The closest to canon anything we get is the non canon but Hasbro approved comics. That's all I ever said. The most official source we have is that they are 20 + cutie mark age years old. Does this mean they are 30 years or even 30 months no. Its again non canon but it is the only time Hasbro has approved for publication anything that gave them an age thus is the most official even if in no way binding not even to the show. That's all I meant to convey at all. That the closest Hasbro has ever came to giving their age is near 30 years old and if you wanted to go with or in anyway cared what the most official source was that was it.
[My turn to edit for changes to the message I'm responding to. Some tone changes as well.]
As far as Faust's maturity rating that to would likely fall under the non canon but semi official heading at least to me. I will say I agree with her assessment of their maturity for when she was working on the show. I greatly doubt there are many people who would argue they haven't matured since she left the show all those years (real time) ago. Given the comic is far more recent it would still likely to me be a more accurate judge of their age as they exist now and not six (real time) years ago though of course that is purely opinion. Also since we don't know how ponies age anyway the actual numerical number for their age could be the same which ever source you choose to follow. AKA maturity 12 to 18 human could take a pony 20+ years. It could also only be 20 days(exaggeration). Who knows we have no objective evidence so no real help on age there.
9566418 Well, it pretty much has to be more than twenty days because we've seen more than twenty days onscreen, and the Crusaders still haven't grown as old as the Mane Six were when the show began!
But aside from that, you're right that we don't have any explicit statements. On the one hand, we have the comic you pointed out; on the other hand, we have Faust's statement 9566375 pointed out, and the Equestria Girls equivalence... and given how mediocre some of the comic plots are and how clearly they contradict onscreen canon, I think the tack 9566375 took in this story is at least as strong.
But regardless, I'm looking forward to the next chapter!
9566418
It's no more necessary than your post was. It exists to share two things.
One is my reasoning. Part of what went into my reasoning was listening to the arguments people were making.
The other was telling people about what the creator had said about the character's ages (which is the one part of the post I didn't completely overhaul.) Just as I was unaware that the comic in question specified that the characters traveled 20 years, I'm sure that there are plenty of people who don't know what Lauren Faust said about the characters ages.
In my extremely limited defense, I didn't say that you did. In my slightly less limited defense, I edited my post to point out both that you didn't and that I wasn't claiming you had before you responded to it. Pretty sure the version without that disclaimer was live for about ten minutes.
Normally I wouldn't edit something in stages, but I figured it was important to get the part where I said that I knew you hadn't done that out quickly, instead of waiting the hourish it took me to edit the rest of the post.
That depends on how you define closeness to canon. For me the closest thing to canon we can get is what's suggested by the show and movies (and only those things) themselves. For you it's the comics. For other people it's Word of God.
That's last bit is why I shared what Lauren Faust said. For some people that's the closet to canon one can get. (Probably the most notable such person Jim Miller, the supervising director, who's position is that if she said it, then it's canon to him.) From 2010 to this year, the only thing that directly addressed the question of their ages was what the person who created the characters (and the rest of the show) said about it way back when she was still acting as the executive producer.
Entirely apart from all of that, since you brought up the relationship Sunset Shimmer fic has with the comics in your original post, there's something worth remembering. A lot of that is a function of how little information there is.
There's almost nothing in Equestria Girls canon that touches Sunset in Equestria before the first movie. In the first movie itself Princess Celestia says three (or via unnecessary periods, five) sentences on the topic. All of them vague. In Forgotten Friendship, Sunset says one. Also very vague. If you go through all of canon, you're not going to find much more that, and what you will find is, helpfully, even more vague.
The Fall of Sunset Shimmer is about Sunset in Equestria before the first movie. I just explained exactly why canon doesn't contradict it in any story-important way.* That also happens to be why people are so ready to latch onto it. Sunset flouncing through the mirror is one of the most important moments of Sunset's life --everything she did after that (good and bad alike) was only possible because of it, ditto for everything that happened to her-- and canon gives noting but some of the vaguest non-descriptions in the history of things that aren't descriptive.
There's a gaping void in the canon, and the comic fills it without being contradicted in any way that invalidates how it fills it. Because of that, those eight pages become more important than the 40 pages that follow them. (The forty pages are contradicted by canon even less, as I recall, but they don't fill a void.)
In fact, the only thing stopping those pages from being (almost) the whole footprint the comics left on Equestria Girls fafic, is the fact that the Equestria Girls Holiday Special pisses people off.
* Canon does contradict it, but only around the edges.
People could probably infer this, but I wrote post before Silver Lining's edit. I've just been in a sort of zombified half-asleep state for the past . . . um . . . really long time.
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Which would be why I said 20 days (exaggeration) Meaning I know its not 20 days it cant be 20 days I just said 20 days to indicate that we really don't even have a window. For what ever reason you do seem to like ignore the words I use in my message and argue against points I was not even making. Like ignoring how many times I said I know the comics are not canon in my first message and yet you open with how you don't consider them canon. I do understand Faust's words being valid too though as I said its even possible for them to be true at the same time given she refers to maturity and the comic to physical age. Again just one of those things we'll likely never have hard data on.
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You too ignored every thing I said about opinion and a lot of things I actually said. You repeat stuff I said back at me that I already mention are flaws in what I was saying that I knew were flaws and then act like its some new evidence that I am wrong. Am I wrong yes. Everybody is wrong until someone in charge of canon comes out and says something directly. I knew that then I know that now. I even said that before you did in my original messages when I kept pointing out how it was non canon and at best only a step above fanon. Just like I said that many use the Sunset comic as canon for their story because there is nothing else much out there back in one of my original message. Yet you just say the same thing back to me like I never even said that. Or the fact some may take word of god as more accurate I said that too by saying taking the comics as more accurate is purely opinion.
As for the one new point in your message. Yes I edited mine but to be fair you edited your original message first after mine had been live for for that 10 min so the fact I edited mine is only because you edited yours.
I have added the one thing to this conversation I set out to do. The only thing I ever hard claimed as fact and not opinion. That a non canon Hasbro approved source did give an age higher than teens. Faust's statement is also just as valid on their maturity and you added that in. I believe there is nothing more to be gained in this conversation given 90+% is just parroting my own words back at me. Thank you for your time.
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I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm also not claiming you said, or didn't say, anything.
I figured that I'd say what my reasoning was. Because of the way I think, that involves looking at common counter arguments in depth. That doesn't mean I was arguing that my of looking at things is the correct way or that other ways are wrong. I wasn't, and I said as much.
Since I happen to know what Lauren Faust said about the question, I threw that in too. When grabbing the link for "Word of God" I happened to see the tidbit about Jim Miller, I thought it was kind of neat, and I included it as well.
I figured that I might as well address why The Fall of Sunset Shimmer gets the acceptance it does, so I did.
That's it. No part of that involves involves arguing against you. Neither does it make claims (true or false) about what you said.
Neat, another chapter.
I like this story and I am glad to see more. Thanks for sharing it
I like the banter between Sunset and Dash. Hope this updates.
Gosh darn it why is that good one are always that go either un-updated, hiatus, or cancelled 😭 Please continue this🙏
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Probably different reasons for different authors. For me, it's severe depression. I can promise you that this story isn't abandoned, but that doesn't mean much if I can't write. Right now? I can't write. There's a lot of things I can't do right now, in fact.
Thanks for letting me know you think this story is a good one. That helps a lot.
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It's okay just want to say that. As i have said to the other authors i have the pleasure of replying to my ramblings, if you have a personal problem on your life focus on it first we fans can wait, just know that we are here if you need help or support or just someone to blow your steam off to😊 after all some of us can relate to what you could be going through 😔
I really like this. It’s beautiful, amazing and very well-written (your confidence in yourself is far too low, by the way). Shame it hasn’t been updated in three years.
”You’re one to talk. You haven’t updated your story in over 10 months!”
“Oh, shut up, conscience.”
Ahem. Back to the point. Although, I would argue that the story is kinda-sorta bordering on [Comedy]. There are lots of lines that made laugh out loud. Case in point:
I also really enjoyed your characterization of Sunset Shimmer. Being blasted by Friendship LasersTM may have helped realize she was evil, but it’s not enough to change your character completely. She’s still closed off, aloof, sarcastic and very much a deadpan snarker. You nailed it all.
I don’t know if you’ll update this story years after, but just know that I love it.
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Thank you.
As for whether it'll update, I want to keep writing it. Depression just sucks. Very, very much.
11120815
I understand. Do what makes you comfortable, alright? You have my full support.
11120815
Depression does suck. You do you. Update (or not) whenever you feel up to it. Doesn't matter if it's tomorrow or never.