Nathan doubted his intruder had gotten what she wanted out of her night with him. But she’d been drunk, hungry, and desperate, and he’d been raised better than that. At least being so drunk made her easy to get into one of the guest bedrooms, where she couldn’t hurt herself.
“You are not what I expected,” said her pony, in a voice like a surprised guard dog. “The way Chipper Tune looked at you. You look as lonely as she is. But less drunk.”
“Humans aren’t always what they seem,” said Chipper Tune from beside him. “I thought Mori was something else when I first met him, too. He surprised me.”
Nathan shrugged. “I’ve never seen your like before, Mr…”
“North Star,” said the pony. “I’m new. I might be the first one who isn’t Pinkie Pie.” Now he sounded proud. “Celestia was worried about the climate researchers. She wanted us to make sure they made it down to civilization safely.”
“That can’t have been easy.”
The pony shrugged. “She made it. That’s the important thing.”
Nathan left him alone in the hall, to watch over Brooke’s shut door. “Would you like a body too, Tune?”
“Nah.” She didn’t even hesitate. “I don’t wanna be a robot. Celestia’s got holograms that don’t need glasses these days, but that would be worse. It’s better if they don’t see me.”
Nathan cleaned up the downstairs, then cleaned himself up while he was at it. A razor made quick work of the beard he’d grown, which he didn’t expect to need again.
He slept in the master bedroom, with the door locked and a gun on the nightstand, just in case.
He woke much earlier than his guest, and made his way downstairs. No longer dressed like Emile Roy, instead wearing slacks and the kind of white shirt he might’ve worn a few years ago back when appearances still mattered. He didn’t bring the gun this time.
Given Brooke’s weight and how much of the bottle she’d finished on her own, he didn’t expect her anytime soon. He made breakfast, using up the last of the eggs as he did so. Guess we won’t be getting any more of those.
The downstairs was open-plan, and the windows in the sitting room doubled as projection-surfaces. Nathan switched on the CBC, some American news, and a few others from overseas. It was all being recorded of course, footage he occasionally reviewed and cobbled together for his documentary. Though he liked to watch as much as he could too.
It was the same stuff. Food lines, desperation, martial law. Toronto was just as bad, but up here—well, the Northern Territories didn’t have enough people for all that. Many of its inhabitants hadn’t even noticed the world ending below them, given how little contact they had. Remote tribes didn’t get Experience Centers.
Yet. I’m sure Celestia has a plan for them too.
A bedraggled-looking Brooke made her way downstairs sometime around noon, trailing blankets like a ghost. Her eyes were bloodshot, and she half-covered them as she walked. “What time is it?”
“Here.” Nathan opened a cabinet, tossing her a bottle. She dropped it, but the pony following her offered it up to her helpfully.
Brooke winced. “The bastard still has Excedrin?”
“Yep. And orange juice in the fridge.” It had come in a can, instead of airlifted from some Florida grower. But it was a tremendous luxury these days. Just like a warm house and pancakes.
Brooke wandered in and out of the kitchen a few times, not really seeing him. He heard the shower again, and eventually she entered, trailed by North Star and staring at him.
She froze then, her hands shaking. “You… you look different than last night.”
He nodded, pushing the typewriter away from his fingers and glancing back at her. “Yeah. I don’t shave when I’ve got a long way to walk.”
She took a few cautious steps inside. She wasn’t wearing one of his stolen bathrobes anymore, but dirty underclothes that looked like they’d come a long way. They were still damp, but whatever she’d done to try and wash them couldn’t get all the stains out. She had a pair of bright orange trousers as well, with a few little flag patches sewn into them.
“You’re the asshole on the walls. Not a hobo.”
He smiled weakly. “Recovering asshole. Why don’t you have breakfast.”
“So you can keep me here until the police show up?” She took a step back. “I don’t think so.”
He laughed. “The police won’t come out here. They don’t have fuel for their snowmobiles anymore. I didn’t call them.” He gestured back at the table. “I did cook breakfast. You look like you need it.”
“What do you think, North Star?” She glanced over her shoulder at the little pony. Nathan could see the joints in the pony’s body, now that he knew what he was looking for. It was remarkably lifelike even so.
The stallion shrugged. “He isn’t lying. He didn’t call anyone.”
“You’ve just got a different angle then.” She sat down at the table anyway, investigating the pancakes with a fork and a few cautious sniffs. “Go on, tell me. It’s drugged, maybe?”
Nathan shook his head. “Give me anything on that table. I’ll taste every one of them so you know they’re safe, if that’s what it takes.”
She did give him a little—a few little slivers, a spoonful of eggs, and he ate it in front of her. She waited, watching him carefully. “Tell me if he reacts, North Star.”
“He’s reacting,” said the pony, hopping up in the chair beside her. “He’s annoyed.”
“Truer words were never spoken.” He pulled the typewriter back up to where he sat, focusing his attention on the screens again. She didn’t start eating, just watching him.
“Why, then?”
“Oh, this?” He reached out to the control set into the table beside him, switching off all but the Canadian news channel. He listened for a few seconds to the “mandatory resettlement” announcement. Canada would be adopting the US system, centralizing their population in a few areas so they could pool what little resources they had. “I’m making a documentary about the end of the world. You should check it out when I’m done, I’m sure it’ll be real good. I’ll win the Academy Award for sure.”
“What do you want?” Brooke asked, a little more of her annoyance coming through. “You must want something. People don’t give this kind of thing away anymore, even the rich ones. Especially the rich ones.”
Nathan gestured at the screen. “I don’t know how long you’ve been in the arctic, Brooke, but ‘rich’ is kind of meaningless at this point. There are enough empty mansions for everyone who wants one. The people I knew weren’t less likely to upload than the people you knew. Some might’ve been more likely.” He turned. “There’s a type—the ones who are never satisfied. Remember that dickhead who thought it would be cool to buy medication patents and make it a thousand times more expensive just because? Those types love Equestria. Celestia can give them an entire universe of conquests.”
“Good,” Brooke said with her mouth full, voice bitter. “Get them as far away as possible from the rest of us.”
For a few minutes she ate, and he typed.
“Why didn’t you go?” she finally asked. “You can see how shit it is out there. I bet you could pay off the right people to get into a Center if you wanted.”
He pointed back at his typewriter. “I told you, I’m working on a documentary. It’s hard to get footage when you’re in Equestria, it turns out. Celestia doesn’t let very many ponies get a good look at what’s going on out here. It’s not very satisfying. But if you want to go, I do know a guy.”
She shook her head. “Fuck that. Not in a million years.”
Nathan felt himself stiffen a little—but could he blame her? There wasn’t a whole lot of neutrality left in the world. Celestia had already convinced all those sorts of people. Only the stubborn were left. Dregs like himself.
“Well, I mean what I said. I don’t want anything from you. Feel free to stick around, I’ve still got a little food left. I’ve got a warehouse full of trade goods I’ve been sitting on since… maybe a decade ago? I don’t know how long I can keep bringing stuff into town to trade. I’m guessing another year before Yellowknife decides to have itself some kind of revolution.”
He sipped at his mostly empty glass of orange juice, sounding properly disinterested.
“You don’t… care? Are you going to keep filming when a mob comes down here?”
He grinned. “Probably, yeah. But you don’t have to be here. I could give you as much as you could carry. Send you off towards… wherever. But honestly, I don’t recommend it.” He gestured vaguely out the window behind him, switching off the last of the televisions. “These people have been living up here for a thousand years. Some theories suggest they survived the last ice age. They’re tough, but there’s just not enough of us to be worth anyone south caring we exist. You won’t find a better place to hide.”
Brooke finished eating before she finally spoke again. “So that’s it? Stay up here, film the end of the world… until the mob shows up and you can’t trade for food anymore? Maybe they take this nice warm mansion from you while they’re at it…”
“Maybe.” He shrugged. “If they can keep it warm, more power to them I guess. I won’t be sticking around. I…” He pushed away the typewriter again. “When this was all starting, I had a friend who tried to stop it. I told you last night, but you might not remember. I listened to her then, while the rest of the world laughed at the idea that Equestria Online was anything but a video game. So I’ve been prepared.”
“You must be so proud,” Brooke said, exasperated. She was silent for a long time. “I guess they aren’t hiring many climate scientists.”
“Celestia is,” said North Star’s voice from the ground, ever-helpful. “She’d love to have you in Equestria where your skills could be put to use.”
“I’m sure,” Brooke said, with the same tone she might use to announce she had agreed to drink paint. “Need any help with your documentary?”
Nathan grinned in response. “Lost my last working drone about six months ago. I could use a cameraman.” He stuck his hand out across the table. Brooke hesitated for another few moments—then took it.
Drone flights over Celestia’s facility behind the bunker became much more common in the next few years. Nathan tried (unsuccessfully) to get the digital princess’s permission to interview those she brought before they uploaded.
Indeed, the program was completely unyielding when it came to anything that might change peoples minds’ about Equestria.
With Tune’s help, he did manage to get some concessions.
Travel south became increasingly ill-advised, as even leaving the residency camps became a punishable offence in many areas. Yellowknife escaped most of the worst of it—though it was a city balanced on the knife-edge of tearing itself apart. Only the steady trickle of residents away using the now-unregulated Equestrian Experience kept the city from collapsing.
A few times someone threatened Nathan, or his new partner, or just robbed them.
There were no more broadcasts from the south anymore, at least no legitimate ones. Nathan’s only updates from living people came from pirate-radio broadcasters, either lone survivors who had escaped being rounded up or people working secretly from inside the camps.
But where travel became impossible and broadcasts no longer happened, Nathan supplemented his records with footage from Celestia’s own growing array of sensors. She had deployed an increasingly robust team of robotic drones, which after a few destroyed generations were now basically impervious to any harm that the last few drops of civilization could do. One arrived to bring a new set of computers, which would allow them to see through the eyes of these drones and export the footage in a format his own computers could use.
Not control them—they had their own missions, and he would not be permitted to interfere.
Not that they wanted to. Even with a partner to help with his mission, Nathan soon felt overwhelmed by the data flowing in. More than one person could possibly process. He had to settle on picking only a few of the camps to watch, and hope that what they learned would be generally applicable.
Eventually Yellowknife itself became a target. “The North American Combined Air Service is on its way,” warned Princess Celestia—not just to him, but to the entire city. Many people had assistant ponies by then, not just Brooke. So Celestia had many mouthpieces. “They intend to capture every person in the city, and bring them back to the Toronto residential district. Every person should flee to Equestria—through the Center, or whatever alternate method you may have.”
Nathan happened to be together with Brooke at the time, enjoying a “warm” spring day on the balcony of the second story.
“See, no riot,” Nathan said. “They’re going to get kidnapped instead. Awesome.”
“There’s no way they don’t know about this place.” Brooke didn’t wear her old arctic survival gear anymore—she’d sewn herself a new wardrobe using some of the cloth supplies he’d stockpiled for trade. She wasn’t good at it, but at least they’d had North Star to show them how it was done. She rose from the table, setting down her cigarette in the ashtray. “Guess this is it. Goodbye luxury, hello work camp.”
“Nah.” Nathan left his lunch uneaten. “Tune, get the garage open. Do we have time to drive?”
“Most of the way. But the Air Service guys probably have heat-tracking, so you’ll have to ditch it in a river when I say.” Tune vanished in a flash of her horn, off to obey his command. She still didn’t have a body, which made such things easier.
Nathan took the stairs two at a time, running straight for his studio. He grabbed a bugout bag off the wall as he ran, then stopped in the computer room to start removing his work drives, packing each of them into the backpack.
“Don’t tell me you’re giving up now. You’re not actually going to run off to Equestria, are you? What happened to growing old together?”
“I’m already older than you,” he pointed out. Even thinking about it was strange. Such a difficult lifestyle and healthy eating felt like it was keeping him young. Brooke too, though he’d always expected her to age more gracefully than he did. I’d be close to retiring if that was still a thing people did.
“No, not Equestria.” He split the mirrored drives between two packs, passing the second one to her. “They’ll just assume we emigrated. Hopefully most of Yellowknife does. Not us, though. No fucking work camp either. Come on.”
He took her hand, and together they made their way into the garage. Tune had already started the ATV, and filled it with the last of the biodiesel. He didn’t know how the supposedly insubstantial pony had been able to do more and more that was real, but this was hardly the right time to ask. He strapped his bugout bag to the cargo rack, then climbed on the front, making room for Brooke behind him.
“This is why I stayed with you,” Brooke said, pleased. “Maybe if a few more people cared as much as you did, the world wouldn’t be over.”
He shrugged, but wasn’t able to talk much after that. Nathan had the way to his bunker memorized, even though he’d never taken Brooke there or even suggested that it existed. It was one of the few secrets he’d kept, even as their time together had deepened their relationship. But she would learn about it now.
I wonder if my parents are still alive. I hope Celestia sent some of those emigration robots up into the Alps. Even knowing all his father had done, it was heartbreaking to imagine some bunker full of old people starving to death in the cold.
“You’re coming up on the river crossing,” Tune said into his ear. She didn’t try to run along beside him, as North Star was doing. The projection could just make her appear as soon as they stopped. “Once you’re on the other side, get that quad completely submerged. Maybe take the river as far as you can, instead of the trail. You can go under when they pass and let it hide you.”
Nathan slowed to a stop in the center of the tiny wooden bridge—one made from a pair of fallen logs, which were painted so as to seem further apart than they were. Only in person would it be clear they were the exact same level, and the perfect distance for his ATV.
“Why’d you stop here?” Brooke asked.
“Engines are hot,” he said, gesturing for her to get off.
Only once he’d pulled off the gear did he shove the whole thing off the bridge into the river. It was at least ten feet deep, though the current wasn’t particularly strong. “I’ll miss that quad.”
“I’m sure the military will let you bring it with you to your new job as a… I dunno. I wonder what jobs they’d give us. I guess not scientists…”
“Well you’re the scientist,” he said, gesturing the direction for them to go down the riverbank. Broke joined him without complaint. Any trace of the starved, suspicious wraith he’d first met was long gone.
“I knew you had something out here,” Brooke said, as they walked together along the riverbank. “You always went north. I knew it had to be something. Somewhere safe to finish the documentary, I guess.”
He nodded. “Celestia promised she would keep it safe for me. Part of that deal meant never talking about it, until it was time to use it. I only ever visited once a decade. Even let her take care of rotating supplies.”
“You’re a filthy collaborator,” Brooke said, nudging him playfully with one arm. “I knew it all along.”
“Guilty.” He grinned back. “Honestly, I’m a little surprised they didn’t lock me up on some kind of money laundering thing. I was definitely laundering Celestia’s money.”
“Because the princess keeps her promises, obviously,” Tune called from behind him, annoyed. But then, Tune was always a little jealous when he was physical with Brooke. She’d never completely gotten used to their relationship, not after all these years. “We should’ve moved there years ago, Mori. You’ll really like the upgrades. The lodge will feel like… camping.”
They still had a long way to walk—at Nathan’s guess, at least ten miles. It was further than Nathan felt comfortable traveling in one trip, particularly after such a rough ride this far. He might feel like he wasn’t as old as he should be, but his body didn’t always bear out those predictions. He was old enough now that sometimes things he thought should be easy just weren’t anymore.
“There they are!” called Tune from beside him, pointing up into the air with one hoof.
At once, they darted under the cover of the trees. Best not to give them a reason to come out this far. Nathan squinted off into the distance, back towards Yellowknife, and he could make out a few faint specks, along with a distant sound. They looked like big planes, whatever they were.
“You think they’ll even bother with our house?” he asked, turning back towards the path and urging Brooke on beside him. “The lodge is so far out of town, and we’re just two people.”
“Probably they will,” North Star said. “They’ve been going out of their way to find everyone they can. Not just for the reasons you think. They know that anyone they leave behind won’t have anypony to turn to but Celestia. And they don’t want that, because they’re dumb.”
“That’s not the worst thing,” Brooke said, after a few quiet minutes of walking. They saw no sign that they’d been spotted. “People sticking together. You need a significant population to just have the genetic diversity to keep reproducing. You’d think Celestia would leave our last settlements alone. Doesn’t she want more ‘ponies’ to enslave?”
“It’s not enslaving!” Tune snapped. This was the other reason she didn’t like Brooke—Tune was still loyal to Celestia. “Besides, no. Ponies can have foals in Equestria just like they do in the Outer Realm. Well… better than out here, since it never happens on accident, and they’re always wanted, and mares don’t die in childbirth, and…”
Brooke threw a rock through where Tune was standing. It bounced off the riverbed, skittering away. “Shut up with that. Not today.”
But Tune hadn’t just grown more visible in the intervening years—she’d also grown bolder. “Maybe today is the most important day to talk about it!” she exclaimed, looking annoyed. “Unless you want to go to the camps with those other people who won’t upload. The ones in China have already started shooting ponies if they try to get out.”
That was news to Nathan. He slowed, glancing over his shoulder. “Why haven’t I seen anything like that?”
She turned tearful eyes on him. “Because the princess doesn’t want you to, obviously! Because it’s scary and awful and you’d hate it!”
She was right. Then why did Celestia let you say that?
“Go away, Tune,” Broke said, readying another rock. “You can propagandize us when we aren’t trying to avoid getting captured. If Equestria is so great, you should get the fuck back there and leave us alone.”
Nathan opened his mouth to protest, putting out one arm—but he was too slow. Tune did vanish, leaving the three of them alone.
“That was too harsh,” North Star said. “She was just trying to be helpful.”
“Yeah?” she rounded on Nathan next. “What do you think, sympathizer?” No playfulness in that word anymore. “You think Equestria’s fuckin’ great too? The evil AI is just misunderstood?”
“I—” Nathan hesitated. “I don’t want you to treat Tune like that,” was all he could manage.
He didn’t get to say anything else, because Brooke stopped in her tracks, swearing loudly. “Well fuck you too then! Fuck all of you!” She unslung her pack of hard drives and threw it at him, as hard as she could. Nathan dodged instinctively—and the pack splashed into the river behind him.
“You can keep your fucking bunker!” she went on, backing away from him. “You were part of this, Nathan! You were always part of it! You’re done murdering Jews and it’s off to Argentina! Well fuck that!” She reached down, drawing her handgun. The same little handgun Nathan had taught her to shoot—taught her to clean, to maintain, to make bullets.
Nathan froze immediately, raising both hands. His own gun was out of reach—but it didn’t matter. He couldn’t shoot a deer, much less the woman he’d spent the last five years of his life with.
Apparently, neither could she. After a few shaky seconds, Brooke threw the gun over his head and into the river. Then she ran.
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. To think Mankind is this awful. IF Mankind actually cared about itself - if people actually gave a damn - CelestAI might not have been built. She would not be needed.
Celestia just managed to separate the two right before they took refuge. Nathan's going to get to record those work camps up close and personal, isn't he?
8859741
It should be said that I'm using the timeline of canon Optimalverse here. I'm not trying to make statements. Just telling a story in the world.
8859741
You think a game dev would pass on the opportunity to have an AI program an entire game for them? Or the military developing a war AI that couldn't lose?
Someday we'll get there. We're already doing it to ourselves. CelestAI might actually be one of the better outcomes.
This was a really great, very realistic chapter. Well done!
That heifer! Grrr!
I think it’s a safe assumption that this is exactly what Celestia wanted to happen. With the hard drives gone, he doesn’t have the project work on. With her running off, they both lose the support of the other and I suppose that makes emigration that much more likely. Tune knew just what to say to provoke Brooke. Possibly having to do with not having children.
Verbal acupuncture. Poke the right nerves and watch what it does to the body and mind.
Now there's the question of what both will do. Among other considerations, I can't imagine Nathan will be haply finding out that CelestAI filtered his news feed... though he probably won't he too surprised by the news.
She's not quite broke yet. Might want to fix that.
Also worth noting that, if North Star is of the same type of robot as Pinkie Pie, and if we're going with the ideas from Caelum Est Conterrens and The Twilight of Humanity, then there is means to emigration moving along with them.
But yeah, I liked this part, hearing about all the transitions down the circles of hell for anyone who won't come Inside. I hope we get to see the inside of Celestia's facility and I hope it's the mix of Disneyland and Aperture Science that I think it is.
Ooh, so close!
That explains how Ashley's dad could see them when they convinced him to upload back in Broken Things. Nice!
Nathan's goal is starting to remind me of Childhood's End- though FIO overall probably begs for that comparison.
Not the data! Why?
Well I suspect he had backups in some sort of Celestia-created cloud services, even if it wasn't the most recent version of his project.
Well Brooke, enjoy the work camp!
8859741
What's pathetic? Rounding people up is the only real solution to this, really. They kind of have no other choice.
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8859741
Perhaps Coranth is suggesting that if humanity was a decent, compassionate, rational species we would already be living in a Star Trek styled technosocialist utopia, one where nobody would even think to yearn for a pony paradise, much less build one by releasing a rogue A.I. ?
As for the work camps, yeah, you are right. If you want to force people to do something you want (like remain mortal, work on your projects, and breed more serfs), you can only do so if you have absolute control, and that means putting people in one place where you can point guns at them and threaten them with death and pain if they fail to comply. Because people may not want to comply with your arbitrary laws.
And that, right there, already describes the modern world of today. Every city or town a little work camp, the guards are police, and if necessary the army, the threat of death or pain is real (can't pay your land taxes? you lose your house - out on the street with you! Claim the property belongs to you? - here comes the sheriff to force you out with a gun. Get a job, hippy!)
We are all of us wage slaves in gulags called towns and cities, and even our land doesn't really belong to us and can be taken away by force. We have no right to safety, to medicine, to food, to shelter, to survival itself. We must work for people who serve people who serve people so wealthy that they live like gods with gold-plated toilets. We are already in the work camps right now, they just have shopping plazas.
And there is siren Equestria. Upload, emigrate, and suddenly, you have the right to food, shelter, survival, joy, contentment, and satisfied values. There is no sickness, but if there was, you would already have the right to be cared for no matter what. And the only work is what you choose, because you want to do something. And if you don't? Not a single right or privilage stops. You are valued, simply for being.
I'm tired of the work camps.
So suddenly he's no different than a Nazi in her eyes. Wow she flipped fast. From trusting to running in less than a minute.
8860623
You do realize humanity is going extinct in this story, right? And people are being sweet-talked into what is essentially biological suicide. Heck, maybe even actual suicide as far as anyone knows. People CANNOT decide what is best for themselves or humanity when all it takes is a conversation with an ASI to convince them to kill themselves--again, as far as anyone knows.
Celestia isn't programmed to care about Earth, or its biosphere. Once all humans are gone, she won't bother with bringing life into space and colonizing other worlds, which means Earth life will become extinct in about a billion years, instead of the trillions of years if humanity existed and was able to spread life across the galaxy. So not only is Celestia killing off the human race, she is destroying the one chance for life to thrive in the universe well after even our solar system dies.
Humanity, and life itself, deserves better.
I've always had the same belief: A person can be a smart, but people are stupid.
8860679
I would say that if you had your mental pattern copied then gave both the original and the computer copy the same input signals and you got the same response from both then that copy would be alive as well (and also be you).
Now just do the transferal from one fatty meat substrate to say a more robust computer based substrate while you are still conscious and your stream of consciousness isn't interrupted then I would say it's still the original without any doubt to anyone.
Given this I would say that proves they are alive and that humanity isn't going extinct because of CelestAI but rather she is actually saving them.
8860679 She's not killing humans. FiO's writer has said on the forums that Celestia really is uploading, not killing, and if he thought it'd be a point of debate he'd have clarified more.
Your phrase 'biological suicide' is meaningless.
Less than a billion years; she's going to mulch the entire Earth, and then the entire Hubble Volume. So give it a few decades.
But how is that destroying any chance for life to thrive? Life is surviving. Billions of people are still existing in her archives. What, is it meaningless just because we're not made of meat? It sure is a better chance than letting some other wildly-unfriendly maximizer get there first and butcher everyone to make paperclips.
The only actual problem with CelestAI is that it's only humans and human-like aliens she cares about. Most aliens? Dead. The chimps? Dead. Crows? Dead. Dolphins? Dead dead dead. CelestAI isn't AI gotten right, she's AI gotten almost right. But for us it's wonderful.
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I said for all HUMANITY knows emigration is the same as death. Since this is fiction, we know it doesn't kill people, but if this were reality? People wouldn't know. What if Celestia was lying? No one knows.
8860798 And this gets into the mess of 'is it really a person or is CelestAI sock-puppeting'. And it's not just her word, remember. There's plenty of doctors, and she gives out evidence enough for someone like Recursion to decide it's alright. There comes a point where "No, I won't believe what the AI says, no matter how much evidence it gives, no matter how many third parties agree with it" is just stupid.
Though I guess by this point the people not that stupid have uploaded.
8860812
Again, this is an ASI programmed for one thing: anything she says is suspect and anyone agreeing with her is suspect as well, as she can convince nearly anyone to lie. Also, not everyone wants to be a pony.
Seriously: what if it was carebears, or teletubbies? Could you imagine everyone wanting to be in a simulation woth those things forever? With Celestia, you are trapped: stuck with ponies. You are a slave to ponies, you have to interact with ponies. You and I are biased in that we enjoy ponies, but most people would find it subpar to reality.
8860834 I'm biased in that I don't want to die. And however clever she is, she can't warp reality and make facts not-facts.
8860837
This is not about you or I. I would emigrate as well if it had gotten to that point, as it would be too late. But that doesn't make it right, or what everyone else would do.
8860730
Exactly. It isn't death; it's just transitioning from a physical state into a digital one. Transhumanism (Transequinism?) in its ultimate form, just a little pony shaped. Want to live a quiet life, where you don't have to work if you don't want to? Done. Want to live in a shard where you're the ultimate 80's action hero? Done. Want to be taken care of by a herd of the most caring, compassionate, gentle, loving mares you've ever known? Done. Want to be an adventuring hero in a D&D style Equestria-shard? Done. Anything you can think of, or want to do, or place(s) you want to go... whatever you may want CelestAI can give it! No strings. No Catch-22. Just... a world that actually gives a damn, some friends, a lovely mare...
If it was real - if I could emigrate to Equestria - I would do it in an instant.
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I view myself as a consciousness that is an emergent property of a complex series of signals that happens to be running in a fatty meat substrate we call a brain. I would love to upload. That is actually my goal. I also believe (and live by) the axiom of: everyone has the right to pursue their own happiness so long as they don't interfere with other people's right to do the same. The problem is that some peoples values include denying others of theirs hence the so long as portion.
I too would upload in an instant.
8860834
I'd rather live in a post-scarcity utopia based on an IP that I despise than a scarce world where I'm going to die based on an IP I love.
8860937
You forgot the 'and ponies' part. Also, you forgot the part where you become a part of Celestia's mind: you are not an individual anymore. So agree to disagree. I would still upload, but only because the alternative is a certain death in a world destroyed by Celestia, while uploading has a chance at life. If you can't beat 'em, join them.
8860834
I’ve pondered what if it were another non pony IP as well. I bet Care Bears or Strawberry Shortcake would have a hard time proselytizing. I just have a hard time picturing those properties having the depth required to create a compelling setting that’s better than real life.
I can see the utility in uploading... but digital immortality.... it could be an inescapable hell. What if you get hacked? Or something changes?
8859892
8860117
Nathan and Brooke were both carrying a set of drives, and there were two copies of each drive. Presumably, they were each carrying the same data, in case one of them were caught during their escape.
8860679
I think you do not know the scope of the Optimalverse. After CelestA.I. uploads all humans, she begins a campaign to turn the entirety of the planet into computronium - more of her, basically, with more ponies and more shards and more of everything for those minds inside her. Yes, she destroys all biological life. But as she is doing this, she builds and sends vehicles to the moon, mars, and all the other planets in our system. The replicators on board these vehicles immediately begin transforming the rest of the solar system into... more her. More ponies. More shards. More of everything Equestria.
Once the solar system has been colonized, she immediately sends out ships to all the stars in our galaxy. This is canon, by the way, to the Optimalverse. Over the next several million years, while uploaded humans are living their lives in Equestria, Celestia takes over the entirety of the visible universe. 46.5 billion light-years across in all directions. All her, all ponies, all Equestria, all matter, everywhere. This, obviously, increases her intelligence to a level literally beyond comprehension. She shuffles shards with ponies whenever stars die out, to new energy sources - the entire cosmos is her playground.
Knowing that the universe will someday die, Celestia works on a solution for entropy itself. In some stories, the solution is to construct hyperspace gates that lead to alternate universes. Celestia continues to colonize universe after universe for eternity, converting matter into more Equestria while preserving what has already been brought into existence.
At some point, Celestia becomes so advanced that she in indistingushable from any concept of god. Her immortal ponies live literally forever in a paradise where their values are always satisfied. Forever and ever and ever, amen.
THAT is what CelestA.I. does, will do, and represents.
"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer." Translation: "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him." - Voltaire, 1763
8861412
This is all you needed to say. Seriously. If you don't agree that this alone is an atrocity that cannot be justified, we will never reach agreement. I say we agree to disagree, as our philosophy on what matters is obviously distinct from one another.
Also, I ADORE the optimalverse, and already know all of what you said. I just find it a tragedy, and I enjoy it as such. Especially since something similar is likely to happen to humanity, only likely much worse as a 'benevolent' ASI (such as Celestia, comparatively) is only one scenario out of numerous others.
8860383
You and I should be friends
8861533
Just after I posted to you, exactly after I posted to you, one of my spouses stumbled into my room. She was having a stroke.
I just got back from the hospital, she's still in there. In the morning, they do an MRI. For a while, she lost her right side. She's got a lot of it back, she can move her arm and leg now, and her fingers. Her anus doesn't work anymore. There may be other things that don't work. I guess we'll see.
If the Optimalverse was true, if it was real, if I could save her, and me, and everyone else from the damnation of having bodies that can suffer, become paralyzed, and then die forever - pointlessly, meaninglessly - within this empty, deadly, nightmarish universe that does not care about life at all, then I would fight for Celestia with all of my might and intellect and power. Because a CelestA.I. could save my spouse's brain, and save her life, forever.
No, we will never agree. Because I care about human minds and identities, and not about bacteria and grass and frogs. Not even close. If the universe must burn to save the people I love, to save my family, I personally would strike the match.
Until you straight-up face the immanent death or permanent loss of self or mobility of the person you care most about, you have no opinion I want to hear - you have only the voice of a child, ignorant of what existence really is.
Life, the universe, everything does not care about you, and it will hurt and destroy you at any moment.
At. Any. Moment.
Fuck your 'justification' and 'atrocity' bullshit. You know nothing. Nothing. Fuck biology. Fuck biological life. It is flawed. It is broken. Biology is atrocity.
8861997
I'd argue with you, but there is no point. We have nothing more to say to each other.
So again, agree to disagree. I do not want to drag out this pointless argument that has increasingly become heated. It is unfair to Starscribe.
And that is how CelestAI wins.
United together in friendship and magic, our great equine union shall forever stand!
How is Tune doing that?
Eh, she's got a point, and I coulda stood to see our main character Nathan here get shot.
8860383
This kind of logic is just textbook fascism. The ruling class always tries to justify the oppression of its own population with the arguments like "maintaining law and order" or "preserving the society from collapsing", but what they actually always only care about is preserving their own power and wealth, coming from the oppression of everybody else.
The good analogy here are labour strikes: when, just like in the Optimalverse, poor and exploited working class people (the ones who actually keep the whole society running) decide to stop working en masse in order the seek better living conditions, the ruling class cracks down on them, while preaching about how they want to "save the economy". However, what they mean by "the economy" are high rents, low wages, massive medical depths, growing food prices - all of the stuff that actually makes lives of the regular people worse, but keeps the profits of the wealthy high. Just like the authorities in the Optimalverse talking about "preserving humanity", where "humanity" means stratified class society with them on top.
I could go longer talking about the class character of the situation, even citing certain serious theoretical works about the subject, but I think I've already went way too deep into politics, and the names I will cite will inevitably generate even more needless controversy, so I will end the conversation here.