'Visions are worth fighting for. Why spend your life making someone else's dreams?'
In less than an hour, Celestia will be executed for her crimes against humanity. Justice will finally be done for all those lost in the Conversion War.
But like all prisoners, she is entitled to have her last rites.
***
A non-canon side-fic set in the Negotiationverse by Rated Ponystar. It is highly recommended that you read them before this story, especially 'Truth.'
Pre-read by Alcatraz.
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As long as my moon mom is fine, I don't care.
this was an interesting story. I enjoyed the somewhat different take on the war. Humanity wins, but it's bloody. Celestia loses but regrets only the fact that HER ponies suffered. It shows how both evil and good that sort of mentality can be. The Celestia here reminds me of a saner Hitler.
Their methods are similar, but purposes different. Hitler started his war, because he hated others, (supposedly) loved his country, and wanted the wrongs he perceived righted. Celestia starts the war, because she wanted to improve lives. Yet both led to war, both led to death.
Would one single act of good in a life time of sin grant you salvation? Maybe. Maybe not. A single act of good, however, could possibly save another from damnation.
I never liked Celestia getting the ax for what she did in the conversion wars. this story not her execution is just Petty
11140505
You... do realize she's dead in this universe, right?
11140754
"executing someone for the death of one planet and attempted genocide on anther is petty" -Tempest_Flare 2022
11140869
It is not genocide if they do not die but are transformed it is death of identity a much more nuanced problem. I agree that Celestia should pay but getting the ax is a little too much especially since she is immortal and something like that would never actually kill her.
I'm saying she should be banished to the moon/someplace similar forever. Yes in this world people did die but it isn't a complete genocide as you are thinking. We have not seen what the author actually has in their head I.E. what the numbers of dead actually were and if the ponies that were converted could regain their old identities, as I said a much more nuanced problem.
I get that sometimes nuanced problems should have simple solutions but my solution is just as simple while allowing Celestia to wallow in her guilt as long as she lives which would be forever. It is petty to give her a mercy which death is to her. Even if she does not repent for forgiveness she should suffer for her immortal Life.
Tldr: death is a mercy that someone such as Celestia in these stories does not deserve. She should wallow forever in her guilt crushed at what she has done and how many she led to their deaths. Not giving her the mercy of the sweet release.
11140869
And if I am being honest I meant how the preacher was acting, that's just Petty, wanting revenge. Although he did see the light in the end. I should have separated what I wrote by a period, as they are two different things in my opinions on both were different. I have a problem with figuring out where one of my sentences ends and another begins until after I look at a comment or something I have wrote that is my bad.
11140885
because banishments and "100% secure imprisonments" /ever/ work yes absolutely. See Tirek, Chrysalis, /Nightmare Moon/ who if you recall also had plans to wipe out the entire planet in much the same way it ends up dying. While there is life there is hope, and that works both ways. So long as she lives she remains a threat to the lives of everyone else, there will always be a chance that extremists will rally to that obvious banner, hell in the negotiationsverse this is set in alone there's already plenty ready to go down because "Celestia is on our side:" taking her out takes the wind out of their sails and would save lives. Further Alicorns aren't immortal in this universe (at least not the all encompassing immortality you seem to be assuming): Luna, Cadence, and Flurry Heart are all dead at this point: Luna dying in Jerusalem and the latter two in the nuking of the Crystal Empire.
Also genocide as defined by international law:
n the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(source https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
I think you'll find Celestia's actions would certainly hit bullet points four and five if nothing else especially since her stated aim was to get rid of humanity.
tldr: the vindictive "make her suffer forever" idea isn't worth the eventuality of her escape because really it's a matter of when, not if, banished problems make a return especially if they're ageless (as the alicorns do certainly seem to be) or especially long lived. Any anti-Celestia precautions (Thalmann generators, monitoring equipment, guards etc) require upkeep that people six generations down the line might question paying out, not to mention boot up time in the case of the generators and the amount of magic she'd still possess for some time with them (see Luna in Jerusalem). Given also the track records of Alicorns going on insane destructive crusades after being neglected it's far more likely that when she escapes she'll have learned nothing and be highly aggressive, possibly also towards ponykind.
I appreciate your clarification on "this /story/ is petty" versus her execution being petty, however I recommend adding a subject to the second sentence as well: if there's no subject (aside from the pronoun "this") the only thing readers have to go on is the context of your last sentence. "I never liked Celestia getting the ax for what she did in the conversion wars. this is just Petty" reads as my comment (and incidentally such pronoun game misunderstandings are how romcoms function)
11140903
This is not the original author of the conversion stories and it is only hinted that this war had casualties unlike the original story which did not have any from what I can tell.
Since I have not seen if this author has any other works in this universe I am basing all of my interpretation off of this one story. With that context I asked that you understand why I am saying that allowing Celestia to wallow in her own guilt will cause her to create a prison of her own mind. One she will never leave or at least won't leave until far after humanity has either forgotten or has died out.
11140907
That's from the full description of this fic: all my evidence from the time Equestria is on Earth is from the Negotiationsverse canon, canon which given the following:
seems to be in line at least with the fate of Luna. In the show through Luna we've seen what neglect alone can do to an Alicorn psyche, now consider what might happen if they're that isolated while also crushed under the grief and rage that comes with the death of their entire family. I get where you're coming from and do understand your argument, I just think it's an unnecessary risk not worth irresponsibly gambling peoples' lives over.
11140918
I am sorry but I do not like reading these stories where Celestia is well meaning but evil out of ignorance that is why I do not read any of the conversion stories if I cannot help it let's see it on the featured box got me wondering what it was like.
11140920
Then why are you here?
11140976
I caught in the features box I typically at least take a brief glance at what's in the features box plain and simple
It's nice to see this get featured!
Still don’t know how I feel about the negotiations verse. It started out as pretty cool war of necessity thing but then quickly turned into a black and white WW2 allegory and I think that ruined it. Cool story though.
11140620
Actually, she states she regrets the death and suffering on both sides. She just says she isn't sorry for what she did.
Wow, Celestia get hated by the fans today, right?
They only want to get rid that white alicorn as soon as they can 
Anyway, negotiation - verse is just a HFY universe though.
11141171
O, tho saying she isn’t sorry kinda makes me question that regret
11140903
The thing that's always bothered me about the Xenolestia wing of TCB stories is the way they tend to downplay/marginalize Equestrian sources of resolution. The Elements of Harmony could work just fine on Xenolestia, but authors from this wing of TCB don't seem to allow that, which is a major break from MLP values/methods.
Personally, I would love to see a story where Equestrian reformation works on Xenolestia and Earth... has to deal with it.
This is very well written.
11141256
That’s what happens when you make “humanity” a character. It’s easier to make humanity “the good guy” and the ‘other’ the “bad guy”.
As for this story: it’s… eerily righteous in a “we are going to kill you all to save your souls”-way.
This is extremely well written, and I especially loved the opening lines.
I love the fact the Celestia says absolutely nothing when the priest asks her how she felt about the millions of families she was responsible for tearing apart. The same exact thing Celestia kept spewing out about what humans wound do to ponies with her propaganda during the war. And what does she say?
Nothing.
She can't even acknowledge that everything she accused humans of doing during the was was ultimately carried out by her
11141719
Celestia genuinely believed what she she was doing and wouldn't see or repent or reconsider her actions.
She ruled too long and it shows. It was all about maintaining status quo with her in top. Crazy to the end.
11141412
You can't exactly make humanity the bad guy at all when ponies come in and commit genocide. It's happening in Xinjiang as we speak. The difference is, ponies are doing it with butterflies and rainbows and potions. It's still genocide.
It's petty clear cut when it comes to genocide.
11140885
Dude, it's genocide. It's the literal destruction of a race. In this TCBverse, all converted ponies are sterile and are controllable. Celestia doesn't even want humanity you carry on as ponies. It's disgusting and vindictive and evil.
11141256
They'd still kill her. You can't just go from genocide then "Okay, I'm good now. You have to deal with it!".
11141134
Ww2 doesn't have a monoply. See Saddam Hussein for his crimes.
And what were you wanting anyway?
11141730
Mmmmm... Imagine a situation where the Elements of Harmony worked on Xenolestia. Now she's just terrified, haunted, painfully repentant Celestia. Imagine Twilight is alive, or even worse, Luna still is. Ponies who still have faith the Elements see the return of Equestrian values and the triumph of their system. Twilight has her mentor back. Luna has her sister.
Then humans kill Celestia. Not Xenolestia. Celestia.
11141724
Comments like this are why I don't discuss TCB stories.
11141821
She still committed the acts. She'd still have to get a trial and the ponies that still carried out the acts still have to be punished. Simply saying, "It's okay now, she'd good again" is NOT going to be accepted. Especially on a genocide on that global scale.
The problem with your position, is that it wasn't an alter ego, it was Celestia herself. She chose to do these things. A trial and the imprisonment/execution of her and the ponies with mass sanctions is required.
11141846
Why? I've done nothing more than defend my position. Genocide is pretty much clear cut. There's nothing benevolent about the TCB. There's nothing misguided about Celestia's motivation. It's based on hate and a preservation of what SHE wants, not what's best for ponykind's needs.
The comments on this story are pure gold
media.giphy.com/media/6pJNYBYSMFod2/giphy.gif
11141853
I would disagree with the last part of your comment and say that it wasn't Celestia's personal wants, but the cold, psychopathic objective reality: Not having competitors is good for a race/species/anythingreally.
Thus, ponykind is objectively better off without humans.
11141968
By what? Killing them? Converting them?
You're not making your case here. You can't claim alter egos because you committed evil acts. Thats a bullshit excuse. And ponies can't claim "we were just following orders". That's unacceptable in our modern time.
Humanity isn't going to be a victim of genocide and go kick rocks because ponies say so, after said ponies committed genocide.
11141848
This is exactly what I was talking about. In Xenolestia TCB stories the Earth justice system is always superior to the Equestrian justice system. This is what I was originally lamenting. Because if ponies get to Xenolestia first, and she gets subjected to the pony system first (Elements of Harmony, etc.), and ponies think this is perfectly acceptable because that's how Friendship is Magic works...
The conflict between and discussion about the two worlds having different outlooks on justice systems would make for a great story. But few TCB stories go anywhere near this topic, and I feel that this avoidance cheapens the stories' My Little Pony roots.
So, I'm making an assumption on your thinking behind this statement, because it has been a very common one over the years, and... You really don't want to get into the freight tanker-full of cans of worms that is comparing Nightmare Moon's exact mental/personality state to Xenolestia's, in addition to how exactly the Elements can/cannot work to reform either of them, just so the Elements can have meaningful impact on Luna but not Celestia.
11141961
Who knew having a sympathetic leaning on a genocidal character would generate such a response?
Honestly, this story is indeed best served as non canon. It really tried to make her as a reasonable but simply misguided individual. She's anything but that. She's either delusional from having lived so long or simply just wanted to maintain her status quo. Either isn't better then the other. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And damn, Celestia made one hell of a highway with magic and rainbows with sugar sprinkled on top.
Even more, it's portrayed to make her look better by trying to convince a man of God, with a murderous intent, as the fallen one and she SAVES him by challenging him with his beliefs. As if somehow, she's been good all along. It's insidious as f***.
In addition, there's always this under tone from the ponies that they're somehow superior, despite having committed genocide. Twilight made a reference to this in Negotiation verse story by saying, "We were wrong, even if Humanity is flawed."
Like, wow, she learned nothing at all on her deathbed. Ponies are no better than humanity. If anything, they're worse than humanity because they had all this advantage of magic and allegedly better quality of life and yet, were able to get along with other races on Equis AND all these Friendship lessons. But somehow, they couldn't do the same with Humanity?
In the story, Celestia says she doesn't regret what she had to do. Only that "both sides were hurt". Umm, no you didn't have to at all. In fact, with allegedly how bad humanity is, ponies we're either welcomed with open arms in peace or confusion with apprehension.
But no hostile actions were taken at all against them. They were quite frankly, humanity was extremely tolerant with the bureaus existing at all. That was a major red flag, more red than a marxist blushing. I just can't see the logic of "humanity bad!".
It's why I have no sympathy for the ponies in this version, and people who do, read these stories take the wrong lessons from them. That needs to be challenged.
11142080
You know. If that universe base on real TCB, you can't fight Celestia by brawl though. And look, we got a Celestia who dumpy to make a war with human, with a dumpy reason. Sorry but the real TCB Celestia will never do that.
Like I said, Negotiation -verse is just a HFY.
11142100
TCBs by their definition are genocide.
11142191
Yep. But original one don't put a hoof on human world or make a war, so you can't have a reason to fight them. Celestia will be sit there and watch the human world dying without any blood dripping.
People really like making Celestia out to be a tyrant... despite there being absolutely no trace of evidence to support it.
Is it because she's white?
11141997
Oh! Well ok then! (BLOW LUNA'S F'ING BRAINS OUT!!)
Nightmare Moon was OBVIOUSLY just Luna, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
HUMANS can't claim 'alter-egos' because we don't live in a magical world where mind-control ghosts and demons are a thing. But ponies live in a magical world where such things are reality. That claim IS valid until it can be proven false. I would assume a 'real' Equestria would have tests for the presence of such things... but fanfic writers tend to struggle to maintain any sense of plausibility in their 'Darkquestria' wangst-fest stories.
They change only the tone of the world, BUT NONE OF THE DRASTIC CAUSALITY ALTERATIONS THIS WOULD LEAD TO.
It's very lazy writing.
11141724 And yet so many humans are still kissing Xi's ass...
If Xenolestia promised Gates and Soros a pile of cash, they'd jump on board the Genocide Express. So would the entire World Economic Forum.
Stop being naive. A HUGE number of humans would behave EXACTLY like Xenolestia if they had magical powers.
11142235
Agreed that's why I'm thinking rn if I was a part of the army that captured her I would've just lost it and massacred every pony I can see without a sense of remorse and guilt while shouting BLOOD FOR FREEDOM,
11142235
That's certainly true. I mean, imagine Stalin or Mao with a conversion potion: Comrade in a bottle, 100% proof, will turn people into loyal Communists. Or Hitler with a barrier of doom; it only kills non-Aryans. Not to mention the whole "banality of evil" deal, the Munch experiment and so on, where even common people are capable of horrible things with the proper motivations.
Except the whole problem with TCB stories is that Celestia is doing these things, which as you said most people would do - and yet is still claiming a position of absolute moral superiority and right to decide the fates of billions of people. Basically, she's doing what is generally regarded as horrible, horrible things and yet claims she's superior to humanity because she's the one doing these things for a good cause. The ends do not justify the means.
11141968
And one can make the similar argument that humans would be better off without ponies - and yet, in the aftermath of Equestria's defeat in Negotiations, they didn't immediately slaughter every pony in sight.
And somehow, the ponies were perfectly fine sharing their world with griffins, dragons, elks, minotaurs, kirin, seaponies, breezies, donkeys, diamond dogs, and so on and so forth, many of whom were actual historical predators of ponies... and yet they drew the line at humans... why?
11142397
Ironically said barrier would also end up killing him, as well as a good number of Nazis, as only a fraction of em fit the "Aryan" mold. Hell, as Tolkien pointed out, the Indo-Aryans are closer to Iran and such IRRC
11142204
She's still converting humans and influencing the world to convert. A slow, coordinated non violent death is still genocide.
11142413
Not unless the barrier is suited to his definition of aryian race.
11142413
True. But not if he was inside the barrier as it expanded outwards.
But my point is, if Hitler had a weapon that could kill everyone he deemed an inferior, he'd have used it. Which says volumes about Xenolestia's methods.
If she truly wanted to claim the moral high ground, there were other ways to do it.