Characterization, Canon, Fanon... And the One Change I really want in this site · 3:33pm Mar 31st, 2012
So, here's a more substantial blog post, since I was kind of annoyed by the lack of content from the last one. Even if all of you thought that Spark would be the only one to cheat and try to teleport! (No faith in Dice, seriously)
But anyway, to the actual post, I say!
On the characterization (Canon) of Fluttershy.
I loved Hurricane Fluttershy. In fact, I can honestly say I pretty much love all of the Flutter-eps so far. Even if she's not best pony for me, her natural daaaw-ness and shy nature make her a lovable character by all definitions.
But... therein lies the problem in my opinion. I have mentioned before that the series doesn't translate well into a linear-story. I think the point is proven several times, including the whole Princess Cadence and Shining Armor characters (regardless of how well they handle the episode). In fact, the only things we know for sure happen in some sort of overall relevant sequence are: NMM Saga, CMCs Meet, Grand Galloping Gala, Discord, and to some extent, Rainbow Dash becomes an Egghead.
Every other chapter can basically be thrown up, tossed around and put anywhere in the storyline without affecting the end result.
However, we have seen some following to the RD-Egghead part, we see her reading books at the library... but, what about Fluttershy? Every episode that deals with her has to do with her being more assertive, and yet... there is no progress! She's stared down an adult dragon, yet fears even watching them from a distance. She's had training with Iron Will and stood up to him, and yet, no backbone. She stared down a freaking Cockatrice while it was turning her to stone... and yet, again, no assertiveness.
I really do like Fluttershy, I just wish there was a tiny bit of progress there.
Come on, Flutters! You can do it!
So, a question that has popped into my head is, how many of you try to stick to Canon after new episodes come out with conflicting info? I mean, Seth will make a comment along the lines of how we'll deal with new developments in relation to our stories. So I want to know.
Basically, in my opinion, a fic is not canon, ever. No matter how 'true' you stay to the source, no matter how much you whine that you got Twilight Sparkle right, it's not canon and you have to deal with the fact that your product is not part of the series for better or worse. But I have known that some authors will go back and edit their stories to keep up with what is being shown on TV.
Why? I mean, is it really that important? Does it take away from (for example) "On a Cross and Arrow" that Dusk doesn't have a sister called um... Battle Bikini?
If you go by it, Twilight would already have a brother! 
How will this affect their relationship!?
Answer: It wouldn't.
But, the need from some authors to change things after the fact still remains... so tell me, would you go back and edit a story just so it conforms to canon? Or would you rather just continue on the line you were going?
And finally, the ONE CHANGE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN THIS SITE
You see the "Featured Story" block up there? The one with six stories that rotate constantly?
Here's what I would like: I would like the thing to be reset every 24 hours, because supposedly the purpose of it is to give an equal opportunity to everyone here to have their work there, but it doesn't do that. It basically just pumps there whatever is in the top six read stories here. Which can be directly affected by them being showcased in EqD with a link here. And it remains the same for several days at times.
So, if for a whole 24 hours it has already showcased the story, why do we need to see the same six (give or take one) for three days?
In my opinion, a simple randomizing of the whole list of 'popular' stories of the day would work better... I mean, that's 6 random choices out of 55 'popular' reads... but that's me.
Anyway, ranting out...
~WD
I've seen comments from a lot of authors who are very concerned about sticking with canon, even to the point of rewriting their stuff to conform with newer episodes. I am not one of those. My philosophy is that a story is a product of the time when it was written. It is what it is, and I'm not going back to redo something I was already happy with.
I wouldn't change any character in any already written stories. I like to keep a small barrier between canon and fanon. As in keep the way there core character is, like Twilight is smart as hell, but use whats in the story to shape the character.
Hmn, I think I have to suggest Shining Armour for Dusk's sister.
But seriously, I remember once reading a similar discussion from a science fiction author, Larry Niven I think it might have been. The short of it was that if you have been writing science fiction for 30+ years, you do not want to go back to your oldest stuff and compare it to modern science because you almost certainly made future science guesses that have long since been proven wrong, and because science never stops moving forward you will never be able to stop updating your old stuff to match.
The only real canon in MLP is the character's most basic behaviors and Pinkie's Party Cannon
I can't say I have too many issues with that, because I made a very definite break in the canon timeline at the end of the Discord incident, so I can happily ignore damn near anything that happens after that! Now if there is a very significant thing that we learn about the characters, I MIGHT make a mention about it, but I don't do anything significant about it for the most part.
As for Fluttershy, I both agree and disagree. I agree that yes, every single episode is her trying to get over a fear she has. At the same time though, I could say that...
1) each of those episodes is not her doing the same thing, but different little things. Dragonshy was her facing her fears, while Hurricane Fluttershy was more believing herself.
2) I'm fairly certain that people would take YEARS to get over these sort of things that she has fears of, so why not her? I know this is kinda getting deep, but you get what I mean.
That said, I think some character development would be nice. Having Fluttershy TRY to watch the dragons, THEN run away in fear or something would've been a nice touch imho, but I digress.
Hello WandererD, Omega here, hope you are well,
In regards to Fluttershy and her lack of character growth permanency, the "any episode can be watched in any order for the most part" is both FiM's greatest asset and a stiff weakness. One thing character driven entertainment rides on is character development, and seeing a lack of it can be disheartening. It's there, as you mentioned with Rainbow Dash being an egghead and I would dare bring up Applejack accepting her friend's help against the Flim Flam Brothers as another.
Fluttershy is just one of those characters who's shyness is part of her core. If she lost it, would she be Fluttershy? To me the best solution is to show that Fluttershy is a bit more open about how she feels in relation to others. Show that she can complete a full sentence without going "um" or "if you want...". In her defense with the dragons, she stared down one. In the case of the Great Dragon Migration there were hundreds if not thousands of the flying lizards, so perhaps her old fear came back in force. When we do get to Season 3, I for one would like to see more consistency.
Not likely, but you do what you can.
As for your second point of canon conflicting with a story's fanon, as I have always said it is up to the author to realize that yes there may be conflicts but to write it anyways. Quite a few ponies know of a story called Simply Rarity, which is one of the my few favourite sadfics. Season 2 destroyed that interpretation of Rarity, but it is still cited as a favourite among many. As you said, it is a work of fanon, it should be treated as such, and enjoyed for what it is. Canon and Fanon are two very separate things, and for fic authors, the canon of the show should be used as a tool for our writing as well as a set of guidelines.
In my personal experience, I suppose I get off easy by writing a crossover. I have yet to have a reason to go back and change anything in regards to Pony Age: Origins simply because of the nature of the story. Equestria is a dark medieval fantasy, ponies fight each other, there are horrible monsters running amok that make anything in the Everfree Forest seem tame, etcetera. I can see why other authors may want to go back and change things though, to be more "in line" with the show.
Finally, I do agree that we see the "Featured" stories for a long time after they are put up while the rotation is very slow and judged solely on how many views and likes it gets in a rather short time frame. Not only does it mean no multi-fic story will ever get featured because all eyes are on the "New Stories" tabs, but it also means only one-shots get the time in the sun, as it were.
I'd have to study the most viewed stories further, but in regards to your option, I feel it would just cause the most viewed stories to be featured again and again every 24 hours, since the top six stories do not change all that often unless they stop updating.
Thanks for your time, perhaps we will speak again. Have a good one!
The problem with trying to write the kind of randomization that your thinking of poses a few problems.
1. HTML is a bitch to work with. All programming languages are, even if html is the simplest. To get that randomization, most people would search the web for what they want. Something along the lines of this "{ blink\">Random Link</font></button>'; html[6]='<button }", which is taken way out of context, and is normally much longer, and would only get you six random items coming up in a small square at the top of the screen. COMPLETELY RANDOM, bring that you would get stories from back in 2011 when the site was founded. Now, the minute you try to put a context into such as 'most recent' you have to add a subtext that ties in WHAT is the most recent object on file, then add another context saying 'most clicked on' or most liked' you have to add a link to WHAT is most liked AND a link to what is the most not liked, as a frame of reference. (Sorry, I am rambling! They don't call me TechnoBrony for nothin'!)
2. It probably wouldn't change a thing, seeing as how any EqD feature gets the most clicks anyway.
3. Finally, no one has the time or the ambition for the sort of project that would arise for such a randomization of the html algorithms. Most of the people on this website (no offense to meant to those who do) don't know the difference between Javascript and DarkBASIC. Speaking as one who has used both, (admittedly for making games, not websites) the whole endeavor would put FiMFiction off the map for around two to three weeks, give or take a few days. The WHOLE site would go down, as the top bar with those six stories is on EVERY page you go to.
Sorry if I seem like I am rambling. I just want you to know what you would be suggesting.
"The facts that you don't understand are the facts that put you underground."
-General Arthur Montgomery
51515 You lie! It just needs a parameter that limits the submission timeline to 24 hours!
Or maybe you don't lie 
but the fact that it's not doing what it's supposed to be doing stands.
51487 Heh, crossovers still have their very special challenges
Sometimes, they can be a headache.
51478 Ignoring new developments in canon helps you stay sane.
51455 But!
Battle Bikini! 
BATTLE! BIKINI! 
51453 Well said!
51449 I'll never understand them...
This topic has come up with other authors I follow. The big thing is what you said, fanon will never become canon. And going back and rewriting because of canon? If that is what the author wants to do, but they should not feel obligated to.
A good story is a good story. So what if it no longer fits into the canon anymore? Some people obsess about it a bit much at times.
51527 That would select any random story on the list for the last 24 hours. It would be a much more gradual change, one would disappear then another and another and another. You would see, by 24 hours, 6 newer, random stories up there, ignoring ALL other stories that were sent down there, including the ones that were probably meant to get up there.You would see a whole HELL of a lot of Spidersees, and not a lot of Sweetie Belle Chronicles.
But yeah, I agree that the thing isn't doing what its supposed to do.
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about with Fluttershy. She did manage to stare down a dragon, true, but her friends were in danger. That was one dragon, while the Dragon Migration had many. Furthermore, instead of being immediately cowed into whatever someone wants her to do, Fluttershy successfully stood up agains Dash trying to get her to watch the Dragon Migration, and at least tried to help Dash in Hurricane Fluttershy, before her fear got the better of her. This is.a far cry from the original episode, where Fluttershy couldn't even talk to Twilight successfully. While not as overt as Dash enjoying reading, there is definitely character development here.
On the fanon end, it does not take away from a story if it clashes with ffuture canon, at least for me. However, for the sake of a story, I tend to disregard any canon that is revealed after the story is started as non-canon in relation to that story, unless the writers incorporate it. I also disregard established canon if the story takes place during or before a certain event (such as "during Party of One" or "Before Season 2"). That's just me, though.
Re: Fluttershy: While I agree that pretty much all Fluttershy episodes are showing a lack of character development that does not in itself indicate a lack of continuity. Almost NO characters have had ANY character development. You do not change the characters in a slice of life serial. You can alter or add superficial things about them like "learning to love reading" or "is now a babysitter", but you don't ever change who they are if people already like who they are. It's not like an epic, well written story (rather than character) based drama like Game of Thrones, Babylon 5, Star Trek (later versions), etc. Those REQUIRE character development for the purpose of story continuity because the story is what holds the whole thing together. A show like FiM which is extremely episodic in nature with almost no continuous storyline. It actually needs to AVOID character development in order to maintain the status quo since it has NO storyline holding it together.
Fluttershy is not afraid of manticore or Cerberus but terrified of dragon? I guess it's a neurological phobia.
Re: Keeping things "canon": I've also seen authors do rewrites of their stories just to honor new canon presented in the show. Some authors just want their story to be as familiar to the show's lore as possible. I think it's a loosing battle.
For instance, there are a LOT of fics that started prior to season 2 which have Luna in her Episode 2 form and do not acknowledge Season 2 at all. I am totally fine with this, that's just a time frame issue and any author who feels the need to rewrite due to something like that is making a big deal of nothing.
On the other hand I place huge emphasis on characterization. Not to say I mind seeing the characters personalities evolve, but if they aren't going to act like their show personas then I want a good reason why, and if there is no good reason I would prefer OCs be used. (Really "it's an alternate universe whee this happened differently" is good enough for me).
I don't think that there's a real need to maintain the status quo if you can write the changes to a character logically and believably. Technically this right here is the difference between a good shipping story and a bad one. If you re going to have shipping it's AUTOMATICALLY OOC, what matters is how you present the change of the characters from point a (show canon) to point b (in love).
Re: Featured stories box: There are only 5 stories not 6. Also the box is based on the list on the front page. If anyone wants to see the other popular stories they can just look at that list. I don't see how forcing a story off the box after 24 hours is a good thing. They earned their popularity.
TL;DR
I really dislike fanon and canon being forced together. Don't try to color the canon with fanon opinions and don't be a canon nazi when it comes to fanon.
I have to take issue with your stance on Fanfiction and Canon; while, in theory, it is a sound idea, it doesn't hold up when held under the microscope.
Let my give you two examples.
In the first, an author writes a fic in the long gap between seasons one and two (as many a brony did); it's not perfect, there's some errors here and there, but it's not bad and the fic gets its share of praise. Then season two comes out and invalidates the concept/characterization/whatever of the fic; however, the fic is still held in decent regard because it's still fairly good and a good read regardless of the new problems the canon provides.
In the second; the author ignores canon and writes a fic that goes against canon or ignores certain parts of characterization. It's still the same level of quality as the one in the previous example, but is bashed for willfully ignoring canon and the author is panned as a poor writer for not sticking to canon. The fic is eventually forgotten at best or lives in infamy at worst.
For the writers of fics that are still in progress are left in an awkward position, because they fall between these two extremes. Meaning that have to choose to either continuing ignoring new information that contradicts something significant and risk alienating potential new readers, or go back and make the edits they can to try and mesh it as best they can with canon and just hope for the best. The only other alternative is to just outright stop writing the fic; and, while it does happen, a lot of authors don't want to do that, so they go back and try to fix things. Like it or not, readers are the lifeblood of fics and you have to appease as many of them as you can if you want to be a good author; so, sometimes, it's best to just go back and rework your ideas to make them fit with whatever the new canon is.
51774 I see your point, but let me counter it...
A good fic shouldn't be belittled or changed just because it doesn't conform to canon after its been started. What happens to a story where the author creates a brother for Twilight? Or it centers on how Twilight is an only child and Spike is her only true 'brother'? Regardless of whether it is a work in progress or not, a story shouldn't be subjected to the perfectionist whims of readers that want everything to conform to canon as it is on the moment they are reading it. When I eventually re-write The Empty Room, I will NOT include Shining Armor in it. Why? Because he has no place in the story and honestly, up to the end of season 2 he was inconsequential.
Why should an author have to worry about going back to change things in the middle of a story just to appease the few that arrive at that point to his story? I mean, the reader should be able to understand that a fic that ended before Season 2 even started doesn't need to be updated.
I will grant you that its up to the author if he/she feels that the story absolutely needs to be exactly up to canon, they can do it, but with the wild nature of how episodes introduce elements for the convenience of the episode itself, rather than the cohesiveness of a whole story, they shouldn't feel they absolutely have to.
And my point mainly goes towards finished stories. You can't go on changing things just because it doesn't go with what some readers want. If I had done that, The Empty Room would be a completely different story, and honestly, I'm not writing to get readers, I'm writing to share my story. If it resonates with what readers want, then good, if not, well, they can either 'thumbs down' it or not read it... or give it a chance and like it.
I don't think that a story is good just because you appease the readers. A story is good because of characterization, plot, story-telling and many other aspects. Maybe that's the reason that I don't have 500+ watchers, but I'm not going to change my story just so it befits what the fans want.
If they want to dictate what happens in the story, well, that's what Lyra's Quest is for
51711 You sir, raise two very good points. On Fluttershy and there being 5, not 6 stories showcased
I hadn't thought of it the way you proposed and I think you are absolutely right about Flutters.
This falls within the realm of another answer I've already said. I won't put flim and flam in my story, just because they were in canon. In our joint fics, dragon of the eclipse and flames: eclipse, Marik_Azemus and I debated on whether or not we should include iron will. I said no, because Shy gets a kick of assertiveness when she has a bit of a break. To put it simply: her house burns down, and she wasn't able to save any of her animals. All she could do was stare in shock as they screamed in agony. In the same chapter, she tries to attack Celestia with her own hooves while shouting obscenities. The 'shy' mentality just shatters. We'll have a market scene wher we show off her new attitude, as an allusion to the episode, and that's all.
We will not stick to the continuity. We might make mention of cadence, if we think she'd be good to have in the fic, but not otherwise.
please if you went by canon half of the fics today wouldn't exist, like Eternal, ANY shipfic (with maybe the exception of Cheerimac?) anything You wrote Wander, anything I've ever written. In fact pretty much anything anybody has ever written on this site.
The list goes on, but screw canon, it's called FanFICTION for a reason.
The problem with canon while new episodes are coming out is that it changes every week. If one were to try to write a story that stays completely true to canon, it would never come out and it would be very limited. Writers can't know what characters would do in every situation, so they obviously can't only be influenced by canon. I completely agree with your points which is why in Hoennshy I don't go back and change chapters just to make sure everything conforms to canon. Did I start using Luna's canon personality once it aired? Sure, but only because the fanon personality I gave her was very close to her real personality.
To be frank, if I had to update Hoennshy with every new piece of canon available, the story would not work and I would have to scrap it. There's a reason I but a disclaimer in the description about how it only follows season one canon: one season two aired, it destroyed any ties to the show. Professor Grizwald is a good example. He is my "old magic master" character, and Starswirl the Bearded came and canonized something I had already put in (I wouldn't have included Starswirl even if I made my story later). Hell, even Discord's existence destroys my story. All in all, a story is a product of the time it is written and is more than the show itself. Fan fiction is outside of canon by nature.
Hopefully I've said enough. I agree about Fluttershy too... She really could use more problems for the writers to deal with. Hell, give her a GOAL or a MOTIVE of some kind. Shy and meek don't cut it when it comes to stories. Something has to give so she can WANT something. Characters need a want or a goal, or else they aren't a character worth paying attention to.
Sticking to canon one hundred percent is not necessary to make a good story, but it does help. The show creates a world, and fanon still takes place in that world. It is helpful to stay true to it and keep a familiar setting. In crossovers that take place in wildly different worlds, this is not a problem. Stuff like My Little Avengers works fine just doing its own thing. Then there are stories that do contradict canon for the purposes of character, the two examples that immediately come to mind being your own Empty Room and another fic called Lost Time in which Rarity's parents being dead is a somewhat important plot point. Empty Room as you've said will obviously ignore Shining Armour, and Lost Time has continued to ignore Sisterhooves Social, and for the sake of character drama, that's fine too.
This however is definitely a problem when fics try to create backstories and explanations for things in canon that don't have one yet, and the more elaborate and complicated this is, the worse. The alicorns are the biggest example of this. Anything that tries to explain where Celestia and Luna came from, what exactly alicorns are, their role in the universe, and everything like that is just begging to get ripped apart by canon, and when the author gets it way off, it does kind of distract you and take you out of the story. Hearth's Warming Eve did wipe out a large chunk of Celestia origin stories and it didn't even feature her. All we learned from that was that A) she wasn't always the ruler of Equestria, and B) she didn't always raise the sun. And the thing is, those are major features of Equestrian history, so its a very big part of the show to ignore for the sake of fics.
Personally, my solution to this has always been to just never try to make up explanations and histories for things that canon hasn't already done. I'm writing a fic that uses Celestia as a character. Now, where Celestia came from is irrelevant to the events in that story, so I just don't bring it up. Origins never enter conversation, and whenever she discusses the past it's always about things we already know about, and nothing specific is mentioned in case the show decides to ever revisit what happened during the Nightmare Moon incident or what-have-you. This way I get the best of both worlds. Everything is vauge enough that I can take a few liberties on minor details, and if canon ever does give a proper explanation for any of those lingering questions, it can be fit in without revising earlier chapters.
Now that said, bending over backwards to conform to canon is still not a good thing. Stories that do their own thing and do get contradicted, even those kind of stories like Celestia origin stories I mentioned, should not try to change what they are to conform to canon, and they should especially not try to shoehorn in references to recent material. One thing that really makes me cringe is when a long running story throws in a reference to last week's episode to stay 'current', like when Upheaval: Breaking Point, a fic started pre-season two, randomly included a cameo from Fancypants in one chapter. It was just jarring.
Of course, even this can be done right. I think the best example of including recent canon in an ongoing fic was when Project Horizons had a chapter giving a backstory to the Flimflam brothers and their wartime activities, because it was just seamless how it flowed with the rest of the story, and the way it was done you'd have thought Sombre had planned it from the beginning. Contrast this with how the original FOE threw in a Discord reference in a later chapter with no real rhyme or reason and never followed up on it, and you'll see what I mean.
I guess what I'm saying is, canon is a minor issue and doesn't make or break any story, but take your opinion of it to either extreme and it will. Ignoring canon completely will screw your story over, and trying to stick too closely to it is just annoying. There are exceptions to both and a lot of variables to consider. Best just try not to focus heavily on things that are likely to get contradicted later.
TLDR: Canon is a bitch.
I don't write, but if I did, I would probally ignore the canon of non-plot important episodes where necessary. Status quo is God, and the show writers usually do the same thing, albeit less directly and a bit more subtly. Quite a few episodes introduce elements that strongly restrict and contradict fanon, and trying to go back and stick with them could easily leave a story bland and unrecognizable.