Quick Review of S5E07 "Make New Friends But Keep Discord" · 4:34pm May 16th, 2015
General: ROFLMAO!!! 
This was the funniest episode of the whole season so far. From the moment that Discord showed up at the Gala with what was very obviously the further-evolved descendant of the G1 Smooze, the show was utterly hilarious, both in its own vanilla-canon right and in terms of the Shadow Wars Storyverse fanon, with which it turned out to be surprisingly consistent. I also see that the writers were in some ways doing the G-rated version of the issues that impelled me to write Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason
Specific Points
The Equestrian Society for the Preservation of Rare Creatures
This makes it even more obvious that Equestria is an expanding Industrial-Age society. Pre-industrial cultures little value Nature, because they are too much at its mercy. It is with the attainment of the power of industry, which puts Nature at the mercy of Technology, that civilizations start to realize that unless they manage Nature carefully, they may destroy their natural worlds.
Tree Hugger
She's not only a classic hippie Granola Girl (even more so than is Fluttershy) but also seems to fit the stoner stereotype. She has animal handling skills to rival Fluttershy's own; it's obvious that they've become intense friends really rapidly. I don't normally do this based on such scant evidence, but there might even be something romantic or sexual going on there; since the Shadow Wars Fluttershy is both bisexual and polyamorous, this would not at all be inconsistent with her nature. She has a real vibration based power, and it's possible that one attribute she might share with Fluttershy is a descent from and manifestation of atavistic talents from the Flutter Ponies. Tree Hugger is doing exactly what the Flutter Ponies used to do: she helps manage the ecosystem, and she demonstrated in-canon a Flutter Pony power -- she can control the Smooze.
I would be very amused to see what Sketcha-Holic's Flora Peace would make of her.
CMC's All Grown Up?
Well, obviously not -- Applejack was sentimental about seeing her little sister dressed up for an adult party for the very first time in her life, and exaggerated. This is the reverse of the exaggeration in which Twilight Sparkle engages when she calls Spike a "baby" dragon (he's a child, but not an infant).
However, in traditionally-aristocratic societies such as Victorian/Edwardian Britain, the appearance of a young lady at her first formal ball was an important social milestone. It was called "coming out into Society," and what it meant was that the lady in question was now of a proper age to receive courtship. This is almost certainly what's going on here. It means that the Cutie Mark Crusaders are being formally acknowledged in vanilla canon as being adolescent mares rather than little fillies. Even if they haven't changed their body models yet.
In the Shadow Wars chronology they're 14-15 years old now, so it's about time. Then again, in the pre World War One Western cultures on which I based my Equestria, one's coming out or debut (from which we get the word "debutante") might well be delayed into one's mid to late teens -- 16-18 wasn't uncommon. I have no idea offhand what the current rules are now in High Society.
What Happened to the Mailpony?
We last saw him getting whisked off by a sinister looking hooded black figure on a flying carpet. A background gag, but possibly also a shoe waiting to be dropped.
Discord Learning Self-Control
One of the themes of this whole episode. It's notable that Discord acts like a jerk toward his friends (including Spike, the CMC and the Smooze itself!) and is provoked several times (by his definition of "provocation") but doesn't do anything all that bad in the end -- when he was going to do so (by tossing Tree Hugger into the sock puppet artist dimension), he was called on it by Fluttershy. And he backed down. And even realized what he was doing wrong.
Discord is making progress.
Eight-Pointed Arrow of Chaos
Blink and you'll miss it, but Discord has the iconic Moorcock Chaos God symbol on his walking stick.
Discord Makes Celestia Laugh
All through the Gala, Celestia enjoys Discord's antics; she even laughs at his stand-up comedy. Maybe because she gets the jokes; they have a common reference pool on which to draw which only one other friendly being in Equestria (Luna, who doesn't show in this episode, maybe because she doesn't like the Gala) would share. Given Shadow Wars continuity, I think that on some level, Celestia still loves Discord, and this was all reminding her of the carefree days of her youth with him at Paradise Estate.
The Smooze
This is obviously a micro-Smooze version of the original Smooze, essentially a (non-evil) equivalent of what Fat Face or Mr. Shiny are compared to more conventional shoggoths. The Smooze isn't hostile to Ponykind any more, but it is immature and impulsive. We have no idea from where or when Discord found it.
In the Shadow Wars Storyverse, the original Smooze was developed from shoggoths by the Elder Things of Antarctica as a Godzilla Option for use against the thing in their God Trap. Wind Whistler thinks this was a very stupid plan, as the Elder Things had no good way of controlling the Smooze, either. Though, notably, she can't come up with a better idea herself. Discord stole the proto-Smooze. Wind Whistler's friend Green-Glint and her associate Four-Dimensional are both Elder Things whom Discord snapped up in the same raid.
Tree Hugger, notably, gets along just fine with the Smooze, once she figures out how to talk to it. Pinkie Pie gets on well with it too at the end, which means that its emotivory is no longer so destructive. Its ooze still works really well as a magic-damper, as Twilight and Celestia discovery.
Rarity gets slimed a lot. Mostly because her reactons are so funny.
Conclusion
This is a really excellent episode, and makes perfect sense even with DIvine Jealousy in mind. Discord may have gotten over his jealousy toward Bulk Biceps, but Tree Hugger is even more of a threat from Dissy's POV, as Fluttershy bonds with her strongly on both the emotional and intellectual levels. Whether or not Fluttershy and Tree Hugger are lovers, the sex part of it was never the main issue to Discord. It's his desire to have first claim on Fluttershy's attention.
Mail pony needs a medal of honor.
And Tree Hugger certainly seems like the "free love" type, so it's almost unimaginable that she would have a problem with it.
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We don't actually know Tree Hugger's morals, and it's dangerous to generalize about what is ultimately a cultural Translation (rather like those of the Focused regarding the Spiders in A Deepness in the Sky). However, it's obvious that Tree Hugger's personal philosophy could be analogized with those of "go with the flow" pacifist hippies, and she's certainly voiced and depicted as someone who would not be averse to casual sex with somepony she at least strongly liked. And it's also obvious in the episode that her friendship with Fluttershy is quite intense, and solidly grounded on some real points in common -- ones which they would not have in common with very many other Ponies. So yeah, it's quite possible that they're lovers.
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For multiple reasons, I rather hope we see that Pony again.
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To make the obvious point, Sketcha-holic's Flora Peace gives off "hippie"vibes, but is sexually-conservative even by Equestrian standards. Even by Twilight Sparkle's standards, for that matter.
That was a hilarious ep! though it raises the question as to how boring the gala were for Celestia before twilight and co first one?
and i really enjoy the Green Smooze (And that mail pony deserves a medal of valor.)
And i would honestly be surprise that theres little to none tree hugger/fluttershy stuff after this ep.
and yeah that ep totally work with your story.
I find it really amusing that they created a hippie pony... that looks very similar to Flora. I mean, look at them:
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Yeah, I imagine that Flora would be interested in a good chunk of the stuff that Tree Hugger talks about, since Flora does have a talent for helping ponies relax and has a love for nature (heck, I had Flora befriend Fluttershy in "Brother Bothers"). Back in her home in Neighton, whenever she herself gets stressed out, she'll just climb a nearby mountain and meditate there to calm down.
Of course, Flora might be a little concerned about the whole "stoner" thing, and if Tree Hugger does believe in free love, Flora would definitely disagree to that, being more of an advocate of monogamy. And there's also the little fact that Flora's got a bit of a temper, a hidden military side, and a knack for combat.
But, all in all, they'll get along.
The Mail Pony was my favorite part. I'm so glad Discord is still a jerk- NEVER CHANGE BB.
So it look like it further imply that Discord may have a crush on her. The message of the show had a message for kids and for adults
For kids: Don't be mad when you friend play with someoen else, he still care
For adults: Don't panick when your girflriend/boyfriend hang around with other guys/girls. She still care for you.
Also , I know you write Fluttershy a polyamorous but you should consider on how many sexual partners she would like. You can;t have Dash, Bulk, Discord and Hugger at the same time. There is a difference between being polyamorous and "Sluttershy" (term that Discord actually said on 18th minute in to the episode when he summoned portal)
Just saw the episode and I found it hilarious. My but the Gala seemed rather deserted this year. I wonder if word got around about the presence of the Mane Six, Discord, and the CMC, and the saner Canterlot nobles decided to stay home this year.
It was great seeing Maud again, and wow but did she ever give Discord the works with just one sentence.
The Smooze was interesting, though I half expected him/it to end up slurping some ponies down -- which he did, briefly, but I suppose part of me half expected something like the infamous dance hall scene from The Creeping Terror.
I was reminded once again of why I find the CMC adorable.
And Rarity... poor Rarity. Rarity gets slimed a lot. Mostly because her reactons are so funny.
Yeah. I loved seeing her sneak off in the classic 'naked and embarrassed' posture, though I have to wonder where she got a new dress so fast. Maybe she brought a spare in case of Discord and/or Sweetie Belle-related emergency?
And with Tree Hugger - for the life of me I can't say exactly why, but something about her puts my back up! It makes no sense whatever, shes a pleasant if somewhat loopy pony, and I suppose I caught a hint of the 'more than just friends' vibe between her and Fluttershy (though that may just be me feeling the 'whenever two characters do anything other than ignore each other, it implies romantic interest' idea that runs wild through fandom). Though that song she did to calm the savage beast made me feel like someone was scraping their nails down a chalkboard.
I also liked the look into Discord's home/personal pocket dimension, hopefully we'll be seeing it again.
Can you imagine how much more hilarious this episode would have been if somehow Bob from Monsters vs Aliens could have been Discord's +1? With Bob's personality and style of humor combined with the situation at the Gala, that would have been pretty epic. Instead, we had a partially-sentient goober that was merely a plot device.
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Also, I have to say that as a conservative person, I find real life treehuggers incredibly irritating, and to see one depicted in such an exaggerated way as an MLP character actually brought a fair amount of cognitive dissonance to me! This is a clear case of Poe's Law here, because someone could easily interpret the episode as mocking or validating the extreme leftist treehugging philosophy, especially given the fact that Treehuggers's insane ramblings at the end actually resolved the conflict of the episode!!
Everything else about her seemed to be on the fence in terms of whether it was mocking or affirming her mentality. Though, for the most part I did get the impression that this was actually mocking treehuggers. Although, Fluttershy was unusually rational about her friend. And 'rational defense' could be seen as affirming. On the other hand, Flutters was really defending the idea of a 2nd friend - not TH's personal belief system. In addition, the term treehugger itself is a semi-derogatory name given to environmentalists. I'm still unsure what to think of all this.
I approve of this!! I truly, truly hope that the show continues to advance the CMC's age, although inexplicably, they still don't have their cutie marks yet. The connection between puberty onset and cutie marks seems to be a heavy parallel in the show. In season one, they were already "late bloomers". Now, years later, they are growing up in multiple ways, and yet are still blank flanks. WTF, Hasbro?
Still hoping their flash puppets change! As cute as they are, we could use some actual teenage ponies in the show, eh?
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3073456 I could see it. Fluttershy certainly seemed enraptured.
I've been deeply puzzled by all the cries of anger about Tree Hugger and how much some people hate effin' hippies, and even how Fluttershy should have realized that she was wrong, too. Excuse me? She did nothing wrong at all. She invited a friend, and she assumed Discord would have his own ticket, because of course Princess Celestia would have invited him. And it would be wasteful for them to go with each other when they could each invite somepony else who wouldn't have a chance to go, right?
I think it's sad that when Discord is acting his meanest and most childish towards Fluttershy, people want to explain it as the effects of romantic love--as in, that's what romantic love should normally look like. Yeesh. He's immature and he does not "get" friendship or any other kind of ship yet. Hopefully he's learning.
I've got more to say about the whole Tree Hugger thing, but maybe on my blog, later. I can say that I'm really tempted to write that EQG fic, "Fluttershy Goes Whale Watching," now.
In other news, Pinkie will dance with anypony, slime be hooved.
3073714 Flora's very much of a monogamist, and if I recollect correctly, she's saving her first kiss for her future husband. But we're just kidding around about Tree Hugger, anyway, and even if this were a basic difference between them, they have so much in common to talk about, and are so disinclined to provoke conflict, that I think they'd just enjoy each other's company and the things they can agree on.
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I think the whole joke with Tree Hugger is that she comes across as such an incredible parody of a stoner hippie, everyone in the audience is making fun of her... and then it turns out she actually has real abilities. I like her. I don't like real world stoners, they annoy the crap out of me, but Tree Hugger lives in a world of magical ponies and flying unicorn princesses; the fact that she thinks the rainbow at Rainbow Falls is "magical" is actually an accurate description of it, and she handles Discord better than anyone else that he's furious at would probably be able to do.
In the end I don't think the story is either validating her or denigrating her; it's using her for humor, but everyone in MLP is used for humor, fairly frequently. It's like Rarity's obsession with fashion and social climbing and jewels; the show makes fun of this (like the time Rarity almost had enticed the dragon to listen to her, but couldn't stop herself from trying to take stuff from his hoard), but at the same time, Rarity is shown to be an effective and competent character.
Simple. Look for the graduating high-school seniors of the upper crust. They continue to leech off of their parents by going off to college, which in itself is understandable...until they habitually fail classes by partying instead of studying, change majors at the drop of a hat to satisfy their parentals questions by claiming that they "are exploring their options", and then they get sucked into the erudite elite, which meets every other Tuesday at "the spot", where they pass a joint around and share needles to get their heroin fix.
Eventually, they look around and realize that they have it pretty good, but their roommate, who is always studying and doing what they are supposed to in college (ie: getting a degree) had to miss a semester to work in order to have enough money to register. It occurs to our silver-spooned junkie that not everyone has it as good as they do.
They begin to feel bad.
Of course, this being college, more than likely some big-name university, he tells his friends over a cheap bong at the next meeting of the minds and they, in turn, introduce him to the local chapter of the Social Justice Crusaders, who proceed to inform him that it isn't his fault for having a lavish lifestyle—it's the fault of his father! After all, it is socially and ethically wrong for a man to work his way up from being a mere bank-teller to the CEO of the whole banking firm, thus earning the money that dear ol' Daddy Morebucks makes!
"That money should be redistibuted to those less deserving, because private property is the root of all evil in the history of the world, and here's a book by this delightful fellow named Marx, please read it and tell us what you think. Also, the best way to alleviate your guilt is to participate in a movement that seeks to penalize those who make above this arbitrarily-picked amount. We call it Occupy Wall Street, won't you join us?"
And so, our dear, besotted brat willingly becomes an instrument in the grand toolbox of the modern Progressive movement, spending his time as a grown adult split between: a) partaking in the college-party "life", doing drugs and sleeping with various unknown persons of male/female/both/indeterminate gender (and posting about it on every social media board known to man as much-bragged-conquests); b) acting as the "99%"'s everyman spokesmouth against the evil "1%" who take advantage of everyone instead of studying or holding down some form of meaningful employment; and c) enjoying the lavish lifestyle of the aforementioned "1%" thanks to the money that comes from Daddy, who conceals his growing embarassment over his failure to instill some form of reason, morality, or work ethic into his only son by working to achieve higher and loftier goals, knowing that in the end, he'll only funnel more money into his hypocritical son's bank account to keep him further away, and the cycle continues.
As for the girls, just change all the masculine pronouns to feminine where appropriate and add bra-burning, fighting against the "Patriarchy", hero-worship of Sandra Fluke and Betty Friedan, along with multiple abortions that Mom and Dad don't know about, and presto, voila.
TL;DR— Look at the young people who voted for Obama, who make up the vast majority of the Occupy movement, or who go to Ivy League Colleges thanks to their parents. Find the median age. There you go.
My sources: I watched my cousins. He is in his early 30's, still working on a 4-year, and has posted his Occupy pictures quite regularly. His sister is in her mid-30's, same story, different gender.
And, according to my uncle, my mom and dad didn't raise US right.
At least I'm not a bum.
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True, true. Although, I think the whole "this is a purely fantasy world" aspect actually detracts from me dismissing Treehugger's comments about vibrations and auras and whatnot. You see, none of the standard MLP fantasy stuff is real and yet, the stuff TH represents is a real problem we have in our society. It drags (no pun intended) actual nasty stuff into a fantasy world, blurring the lines as to whether or not to take this stuff seriously. MLP is no stranger to inserting real-world concepts into its fantasy world. That's what makes it so great.
But when choosing which things to insert, one needs to be careful to not accidentally validate things which really ought not be validated. Especially in a show whose official target audience is "little girls" (despite the fact that we all know otherwise). Explaining to my seven-year-old why Treehugger isn't a "good pony" isn't going to be easy or fun. I know I'm probably over-analyzing it, but this is why I enjoy fiction like MLP which has "magic" that is more like a technology than any sort of real world occult phenomenon - whereas I don't like fictions such as Harry Potter because witchcraft is something I would strongly oppose in the real world, and trying to portray "protagonist witches" is truly beyond the line I draw in the sand when deciding which fictions to partake in. And yeah, I probably just alienated 98% of you. No offense intended.
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But see, Treehugger is a perfectly good pony. She would just make a terrible human. You could explain to your daughter that Tree Hugger, being a magical pony, really can see auras and things, but those don't exist in the real world, so people who really do say they can see them are as silly as people saying they can really do magic. People can really do magic _tricks_, which are ways to trick people into thinking they saw something magical when they didn't, but people can't really do magic, and people can't really see auras or control vibrations, either. Anyone who says they can is either playing pretend, trying to fool you, or kind of crazy because they're fooling themselves.
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3074952 That makes a surprising amount of sense.
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I think Discord's feelings for Fluttershy are played for laughs. He does have a thing for her, but she doesn't for him. I'm happy for it to be this way, because at the moment he CANNOT do romantic relationships (having not yet even mastered the art of friendship) and for Flutters to fall into his arms after him threatening to send her friend to the Mexican Puppet Dimension would be a dumb message to send to little girls.
I think Discord is incredibly needy and insecure and lonely, and though that's understandable it's no excuse for his bad behaviour. I've written Fluttercord (always one-sided actually) and I'm glad she yelled at him at the end. Could she ever love him? Probably, but he's got to damn well work for it and learn.
Besides, as MissyAngel said "He's still learning this friendship thing, so maybe someday he'll get the hang of it.
I hope not because this shit's funny."
3074914 Sigh.
You haven't really been at a real university anytime recently, have you? Because I teach at one, and regardless of political affiliation, your theoretical silver spoon student certainly doesn't resemble any of mine. Mine frequently have extended families or their own nuclear families to look after. They work--not "their way through school," which is impossible anymore, but just to pay some bills while the student debt rachets up inexorably. They can't "explore their options," because the limits on capping credits straitjackets them into never taking anything that isn't immediately applicable to their degree. Changing majors ONCE is very difficult and almost always leads to a situation in which a student has a registration hold every registration period (aka as being a "super senior"--too many credits.)
As for "multiple abortions," exactly WHERE does your hypothetical student live?
Oh, but your silver spoon student didn't go to a comprehensive middle-tier state school like the kind I teach at. She goes to an Ivy League school! Well, first of all, a LOT of students at Ivy League schools are students from very modest backgrounds getting quite a lot of assistance. And secondly, some of those Iv League school graduates will go on to take that excellent education and try very hard to replicate it, under adverse conditions and for a relatively low salary, for students at comprehensive middle-tier state schools.
Don't just parrot talking points about the place I work and spend my life based on a sample size of two and what you done heard on the teevee. Read actual news from an actual newspaper, pay attention to higher education in your own state, and THEN opine.
Those who can, teach. Those who can't, bitch about teachers.
Jeebus.
And yes, I get pissed off about this, because it is MY STUDENTS you are implicating.
Citation needed.
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Source: Cousins. Read all of it. I know of what I speak.
And yes, I happen to be a full-time student...who pays his way through to avoid the debt.
Also, while I do admit to a strong case of overgeneralization (used partially as tongue-in-cheek satire, but that obviously escaped your keen and discerning eye), I did say that they were "upper crust". Being of lower-middle class stuck amongst such snobbery (admittedly at a middle-tier university), as well as being (unfortunately) related to it, I do believe that I have a better point-of-view of such things (that of a student, not a teacher).
I am going to ignore the obvious and ignorant dig at what you obviously think is my culture, and skip ahead to the part where I tell you that I do, in fact, read newspapers from both sides of the political spectrum, as well as watch several newscasts following the same rule, that of sifting through the waffle and finding what is in common, whoch is the truth. I have also read reviews of several schools from different states, both professional and otherwise (once again, from both left-and-right leaning sources), about the classes, teachers, students, and student activities offered there.
The majority of them, I found lacking. The majority of that majority? Ivy League.
I certainly do my best to ensure that my opinions and viewpoints are made in an informed fashion, scoots2, by both my readings, viewings, and my experiences. Whether or not they match up to yours really doesn't matter to me. This is one of those instances where I can foresee us not seeing eye-to-eye, and I don't care to beat my head against a wall.
It is obvious that you take the teacher's viewpoint, which I often find recalcitrant, stubborn, and often completely and totally unwilling to hear any criticism of their chosen profession, be it warranted or not, due to some strange notion that it is a personal attack.
Maybe you're one of the good teachers; I am certainly willing to believe that there are a sizable number of you, teachers, professors, doctors, who want nothing more than to make sure that the next generation of graduates is able to glean every last bit of information possible out of that particular class.
Unfortunately, there are more who seem to have become burnt out and started to just show up and talk for blank hours a day and assign blank projects to get a paycheck, and an even greater number who seem to have some form of political agenda, usually leftward leaning, to indoctrinate students with.
There is a reason why useful idiots are usually found on campuses.
Who are, by the way, MY PEERS that I am implicating.
And as for a citation, take your pick of any Socialist/Marxist rag, or get into a debate with any outspoken Leftist, like I did. They're bound to bring it up eventually.
3075199 A sample size of two people closely related to you is not sufficient. I have been a professor for sixteen years. I have more experience in a university setting than you do, I have taught thousands of students, and I have read hundreds of thousands of papers. I am very good at spotting unsupported claims and waffling bullshit by now.
I will grant you that some students try to cut corners in their writing and research, but they don't after they've dealt with me.
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Indeed. Yes, Tree Hugger's personality wasn't entirely and completely perfect, as if she was created to be Best Friend To The Whole World, but she was basically nice and friendly toward both Fluttershy and DISCORD. I emphasize "and Discord," because she was being nice and friendly toward the terrifying mad Chaos God who was obviously jealous of her and might at any moment do anything terrible to her -- the one who most Ponies flee or shun as much as possible (which is why Discord spent most of his existence being lonely or at best surrounded by sycophants).
I can nit-pick Tree Hugger's likely flaws (indeed, I could write essays or base stories around them!), but the fact is that she behaved above and beyond any normal standard of Kindness (and courage) in dealing with Discord. And any fears she might have had of him turning on her would have been utterly justified, given that in point of fact HE TURNED ON HER.
Indeed. The show has also made it very clear that there was nothing about inviting another Pony to the Gala that implied any sort of exclusive romantic relationship or romantic relationship at all. Twilight invited her friends in the earlier Gala episode. In this one, Applejack, Rarity and Rainbow Dash invited Apple Bloom, Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo; Pinkie invited Maud, and Fluttershy invited Tree Hugger. All inviting somepony to the Gala implies is "I like you."
Fluttershy had no sane reason, on the assumption that Discord had even minimal emotional maturity, to assume that Discord would expect her to invite him. This would be true even if we assume that their concept of "having tea together" includes making mad passionate love. Discord displayed insane jealousy toward Tree Hugger, simply because Fluttershy liked her enough to invite her to a high society party.
Exactly. It is true that this is what irrational and extreme jealousy often looks like, but jealousy at this level is unfit conduct for persons in their late teens, let alone millennia-old Chaos Gods. This sort of thing is exactly why Princess Luna is so worried, in Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason, Chapter 7: "The Moon Princess," that Celestia has put Fluttershy in a worse position than Fluttershy realized by asking her to be Discord's friend:
Now in this context, Discord was at least jealous of an explicitly-romantic rival -- Discord discovered Bulk having just had sex with Fluttershy, and hence his jealousy made more sense (even though it was still exaggerated, given the complete lack of any romantic claim of Discord over Fluttershy, as Wind Whistler makes explicit in an earlier conversation with Discord (it's too long to reproduce here, but I think it's damned funny, as it's Wind Whistler and Discord talking about sex, love and moral claims to each other, and those two are a perfect straight-mare / mad one duo). In "Make New Friends, But Keep Discord," there is no particular reason to assume that Fluttershy's friendship with Tree Hugger is more than platonic: yes, it's a pretty-intense friendship, but even in my fanon (where Fluttershy is bisexual, polyamorous and by far the most promiscuous of all the Mane Six) I wouldn't flat-out assume they were also lovers. For one thing, Tree Hugger would also have to be interested and willing. So DIscord's jealousy makes even less sense, and represents the case against which Luna was warning Fluttershy in my story, that Discord might drive off all her other friends, not merely her lover.
One thing I did notice in both cases was the assumption by some commentators that the situation was the fault of the third party, the "interloper" into Fluttershy's relationship with Discord, and bad motives on the part of said interloper. In Divine Jealousy, they blamed Bulk Biceps, missing the ample clues that Fluttershy was not merely willing but also quite eager to be his lover (for one thing, Fluttershy spends most of the story worried that Discord will harm Bulk, she cries when she fears that Discord will drive Bulk to leave her, and both Goldie and Claire Pie are sympathetic toward Bulk). It's as if any and all impediments to the preferred pairing (in this case Fluttercord) should be removed by any means possible -- which has terrifying implications if Discord agrees with this analysis, given his levels of power.
It was in fact the reaction I saw from some unreflective fans of Discord (and heck, I'm a fan of Discord as well, or I wouldn't write long-form fiction about him!) that made me realize that Fluttershy's passive-active social strategy works for her (and, sometimes, against her) both in-universe and across the fourth wall. I love my Fluttershy (or I wouldn't have written the Flutterarc) but she is not a perfect exemplar of precisely-proper romantic or sexual conduct by Equestrian standards, she's an eccentric (though romantic) polyamorous hedonist, which is part of WHY I ship her with Discord -- they're Not That Different in many ways.
My Rainbow Dash, who is by Equestrian standards far more conventional in her sexual conduct (being bisexual is not in any way seen daring or immoral in that culture) and who idealizes Fluttershy, gets this about Fluttershy -- that the main check on the expression on Fluttershy's affections is shyness rather than lack of interest. Fluttershy doesn't trust or deeply like most Ponies, but if she trusts and deeply likes a Pony, she's quite willing to make love to him (or her, as Fluttershy is every bit as bisexual as Rainbow Dash). Dashie accepts this about Fluttershy, and loves her anyway: that's just part of the Fluttershy package. One can't pick and choose the details of the personalities of one's loved ones, after all.
But then, while Rainbow Dash is often emotionally-oblivious, she's not stupid, and she's known Fluttershy since they were small fillies together. She knows Fluttershy better than she knows anypony other than herself.
And Rainbow Dash would never display this sort of jealousy regarding her, even though my Dashie and Fluttershy have been lovers. Dashie's simply not that immature. She's the most immature of the Mane Six, but she's not that immature. Nor is she that selfish, especially where Fluttershy is concerned.
I do not, mind you, believe that Fluttershy should be blamed in either this episode or Divine Jealousy for her failure to subordinate herself to the whims of the mad Chaos God she's supposed to be teaching about friendship. Indeed, such subordination would utterly subvert her attempt to civilized Discord, and render it wholly-ineffectual. If she yields too much to Discord, she would be teaching him that the most effective way to make friends (if you're Discord) is to terrify others into submission; but that is precisely the behavior on Discord's part which made him a foe to Ponykind in the past, and which both Celestia and Fluttershy wish to discourage him from repeating.
In fact, the episode went beyond anything I imagined they would regarding the sexual implications of Discord's attraction to and jealousy regarding Fluttershy, almost into the territory I explored in Divine Jealousy, where Discord in one hilarious moment actually calls her "Sluttershy." That one word laid his motives bare.
Did it make me feel some sympathy for Discord? Strangely, yes ... mostly because I can remember how painful it was to be a teenaged boy and both want girls and totally not grasp their motives. Of course, I wasn't an awesomely-powerful Chaos god at the time, and it's probably a good thing for the history of humanity in the late 1970's / early 1980's that I wasn't. Godlike beings with the emotional maturity of teenage boys are dangerous -- as the Start Trek: The Old Series episodes "Charlie X" and "The Squire of Gothos," both retconnable as early appearances of Q himself, extensively explored. But one does not promote the emotional maturation of spoiled adolescents by giving them everything they desire, with no requirement that they learn to treat others better.
Pinkie's friendly, and she came to realize that the Smooze was friendly as well. Pinkie in fact treated the Smooze far better than did Discord, who claimed to be its friend from way back (something which was most definitely true in my fanon as well -- in fact, one of the things I liked about this episode was how well it suited my fanon, and in ways which can't possibly have been simply because I picked up on clues in earlier episodes). Though in my fanon the term would have less been "friend" than "thief" and "disseminator," as it was Discord's fault that the Smooze was free of the Elder Things and in the Volcano of Gloom to begin with.
One irony about this episode (and demonstration of the fact that Discord is still a big jerk) is that Discord shows no real consideration to the Smooze even though they are Not So Different. Both Discord and the Smooze are former villains who are feared and lonely because of their dangerous powers and bad reputations. Yet Discord shows the Smooze no real sympathy at all; he simply uses it as part of his (absurd) plan to make Fluttershy feel jealous (which fails, as one of Fluttershy's virtues happens to be that she has very little jealousy in her heart). It's Pinkie who is the first to extend acceptance to the Smooze (which in my fanon would have particularly touching implications, given that she's the agent of something explicitly protective toward Ponykind as a species; it would imply that the Paradise Entity was accepting that the Smooze was no longer a foe).
3075219
I updated my comment to be a bit more coherent than it was (apparently at the sane time you posted your rebuttal, so I did not see your post). Since it's a bit, for lack of a better term at four in the whythehellamiawake morning, "more", I put the ball back in your court.
Didn't wish to seem like a knuckle-dragger.
3075239
In your story or in the show? Because if it's the latter, I'm pretty sure despite people's insistence, that never actually happened. I've listened to the sound bite and he says "Fluttershy."
There's no way they would get away with that in a kid's cartoon.
3073888
My Fluttershy would actually be comfortable on some level with having lots and lots of lovers who made her a great big nest and let her bear children to the whole of Hive Fluttershy. But then, that would be her paternal heritage speaking to her ...
Though seriously, this is one reason why she is happy acting as surrogate mother to a whole menagerie of animals, Who all love her, and whose love she taps very slightly and quite harmlessly to fill her emotivoric nutritional needs. So she almost is already in some ways living like a Changeling Queen.
Her Pegasus upbringing, which is the stronger influence on her because she's half-Pegasus and was raised a Pegasus (though a rather eccentric and unusual one) causes her to see her sexuality in terms of romantic love rather than the diffusely-affectionate breeding and maternal tendencies of most Changeling Royalty. So she's polyamorous; her Changeling Royal impulses tell her that she's supposed to have more than one lover (to vary her reproductive output), but her aristocratic Pegasus morality tells her that it's supposed to be about love rather than mere reproduction. This is Fluttershy's compromise, and her self-created moral code (her mother Sweetwing Wind's code was mostly about hiding from enemies, real and imaginary, which oddly enough is also wholly-consistent with the attitudes of Changelings before the Reconciliation).
In Shadow Wars fanon, at this point (1505) Rainbow Dash is no longer Fluttershy's lover in the carnal sense of the term, though they deeply love one another and either would gladly die to save the other. Anypony who loves either of them will have to accept the intense friendship between the two Pegasi mares, heck, Discord accepts it! (That he also rather likes Rainbow Dash, who reminds him very much of Firefly, helps in this regard). Bulk is her lover, though their relationship might also be described as him worshiping her (he, like Dashie, has noticed the aura of intense charisma and semi-divinity radiating from Fluttershy as she begins to awake to her true power). Discord has a vague and ill-defined romantic relationship with her.
Tree Hugger? ... I haven't decided about her yet. I think it may be more like soul-sisterhood between them, though in neither of their cases would this preclude carnal love. Fluttershy has found someone a lot like herself, which is very rare for her as she, the daughter of two very different Kinds (Changelings and Pegasi), an atavism toward a lost Kind (Flutter Ponies) and a Cosmic Concept (Kindness) just starting to fully-manifest, is a supreme misfit and weirdo who is out of place among most Ponies. Fluttershy wants very much to keep her friendship.
And Fluttershy usually gets exactly what she wants. It's one of her powers.
Good thing she's nice, isn't it?
3074794
On Tree Hugger: Yes, I found her vagueness and mysticism a bit annoying, even though it turned out she really did have special powers. I bet that Twilight Sparkle, supreme rationalist and scientist of sorcery, would find her a bit annoying as well. But ...
... Tree Hugger does and says absolutely nothing to imply that she's in any way a bad Pony, or indeed anything but a really good one. She's friendly, kind and nice even toward Discord, even when he's being a big jerk to both her and Fluttershy, and her actions in the ensuing crisis make it obvious that she's not simply being submissive out of fear of him. In fact, Discord's actions toward Tree Hugger demonstrate the disadvantages of being a big jerk: he could have made another friend.
In Shadow Wars Storyverse fanon, the specific powers she demonstrates make it obvious that she's descended from a lineage of Flutter Ponies that became submerged into Earth Pony stock, probably back in the time of the Three Tribes if not earlier, and hence avoided being Twisted into Changelings. This is exactly analogous to the way in which my Fluttershy has Flutter Pony heritage on her Pegasus side, which is something of immense importance to the Reconciliation, because in Fluttershy, Queen Chrysalis actually bred something far more profoundly wonderful than the Changeling Princess and "Ultimate Infiltrator" she was hoping for -- she accidentally created a Flutter Pony candidate HIGH QUEEN, something which has been lost to the Changelings since the death of Rosedust, and something far surpassing Chrysalis in potential power.
Thus in Shadow Wars fanon, one of the reasons Fluttershy deeply likes Tree Hugger is that they have a similar fundamental nature and many similar motivations. And to Fluttershy, a misfit nascent goddess who spent most of her childhood with only one real friend (Rainbow Dash), who managed to make another (Rarity) in late-adolesence, and who only in the last five years of her life actually found a group of friends (the Mane Six) who love her despite her extremely-weird nature, finding a Kindred Spirit is a rare and special thing.
One of the main themes of Fluttershy's character arc even in vanilla canon has been her blossoming into a more assertive and confident Pony. This character development was logically-inevitable: how many times can one save the world, or be friends with a near-mythological spirit of Chaos, before one ceases to be intimidated by rude Ponies in the market place or afraid of speaking to ordinary strangers? One of the reasons I love this show is that the writers get the implications of this and allow the actual character development to occur: many adult comedies wouldn't allow such character changes, because they'd be too afraid of losing the "magic formula" that made the show a success in the first place.
The show's Flutterarc has been remarkably long-lasting and well thought out. It starts when Fluttershy defines herself in the very first episode by her combination of terror at Twilight Sparkle's polite and friendly introduction with her fascination at Spike. It's continued on and off through the whole run; I don't think there's been a season that didn't feature signficant character development for her.
Despite her shyness, Fluttershy has a very strong and distinct personality, a powerful moral compass, and is extremely assertive in matters which are really important to her. Many Ponies -- and fans! -- miss this because Fluttershy is also extremely willing to compromise in matters which are unimportant to her (which includes many social status games which most Ponies take very seriously).
This is important to my own concept of Fluttershy. She is neither weak nor domineering, innocent nor cynical. She is herself, she is capable of extreme dominance when she wishes to exercise it, but normally does not care to exercise it. She is not trying to conform to the expectations of others; she's come to realize that she cannot and should not even try. She is agreeable and kind, but her will is stronger than steel, and she will stick up for what she believes to be right. She does not submit to evil. She is Fluttershy ... and Fluttershy Is Free.
In my opinion, Tree Hugger deeply admires her. Tree Hugger is by far the more extroverted personality -- but I think Fluttershy is the stronger one, and the actual dominant in their friendship, just as Fluttershy is with regards to Rainbow Dash, and Bulk, and even Discord.
And Tree Hugger, though a weirdo even by Pony standards, is clearly a good Pony. She demonstrates this all through her episode. She's not perfect ... but then neither is Fluttershy, nor any of them. The fact that the show focuses on heroines who are demonstrably good, and yet demonstrably imperfect, is one of the reasons I love it.
3075313
Beautifully put.
I don't get all the Tree Hugger hate nor all the Fluttershy hate. I have my own thoughts on the matter here.
Tree Hugger might be an annoying personality depending on who she speaks to, but so is Discord. Pinkie Pie can be annoying too. Heck, everyone can. And like Alara said, though someone talking about auras IRL would set my teeth on edge, in the world of MLP, they exist. Plus I found Tree Hugger's silly noises while she was calming the Smooze down hysterical.
3073965
One of the wonderful things about Maud is that very little intimidates her. About the only thing of which she seems to be afraid is Pinkie -- and presumably her other loved ones -- being harmed. She very clearly thinks Discord is a jerk; Pinkie may well have been annoyed enough by Discord's huge canceled pastry order that she actually complained to Maud about it. Pinkie wouldn't really hold a grudge over that, but Maud well might.
In my fanon, Maud is almost-indestructible, and her toughness extends to her psyche as well; she's essentially a walking ward of Lawfulness, and would merely be annoyed by horrifying experiences that might leave most mares with permanent emotional damage. Discord is far more powerful than her, and could defeat her by being even moderately cunning about it (mostly, by staying out of Maud's reach and trapping her in something from which she could not easily escape), but he could not easily break her, and they both know this.
The Smooze was, you know, always a Ponification of H. P. Lovecraft's shoggoths. Its initial appearance in My Little Pony and Friends corresponded chronologically with the 1980's Lovecraftian revival. I would be very surprised if whichever writer created it hadn't read At the Mountains of Madness. When I explicitly have it be a product of the Elder Things, I'm just following the line of its conceptual origin.
Unintentionally-hilarious, that one. If you watch it carefully, aside from the obsession with panty-shots, the monster moves so slowly that its catching anyone is almost unbelievable; the "victims" essentially throw themselves down its mouth, and in one scene you can see the suit operators extending helping hands to one of the actresses pretending to be eaten by it.
I think that when one attends a party including both Discord and the Cutie Mark Crusaders, one must realistically assume that something messy is likely to happen. Possibly involving tree sap.
Rarity's prissiness about nudity has been a joke since Season One. Applejack even Lampshades it in one early scene. Doubly funny because Rarity -- like most Ponies -- normally goes nude: it's only in the context of dressing or undressing that Rarity displays any body-shyness. Fluttershy sometimes acts body-shy as well, and she also goes nude most of the time.
Rarity normally travels with a lot of clothes. I'm guessing that Spike helped her with her luggage in an unshown scene.
One can't say that the little purple Dragon hasn't had ample warning of into what he's getting himself if he actually succeeds in his courtship of Rarity.
Tree Hugger was likeable but annoying at the same time. This was subtly and cleverly done: we got to see both what about her annoyed Discord and that what really annoyed him was that it obviously didn't annoy Fluttershy; AND that it wasn't really all that much, Discord was making a mountain out of a molehill because it suited his prejudices based on his desire to monopolize Fluttershy's attention.
It was also outside a Pony's normal vocal capabilities, and leads one to suspect that she's not at all a normal Pony. I'm thinking that she's part Flutter Pony, but she might also be part Sea Pony as well. She might even be some sort of shapeshifter.
3073714
Yeah, I could see all three of them -- Fluttershy, Tree Hugger and Flora Peace, getting on rather well together. Which might suit the spirit of the show quite well -- one of the points the show often makes is that while the distinction between being good and being evil is very important, there are many ways to be either.
3073965
Oh, one thing ... Tree Hugger is very obviously rather crude and coarse. Fluttershy is by comparison refined and gentle. It's in part a class sort of thing.
3074900
(*nods*) In our world, if someone talking like Tree Hugger told me she'd just seen a flying unicorn princess, I'd assume she was on some fairly major drugs. In that world, one possible response might be "Oh, you've met Twilight Sparkle?"
And, say what you want about her ... Tree Hugger is brave. And that's something which Fluttershy would deeply respect about her. Fluttershy's a weirdo, but she's a Pegasus weirdo, and while she's not into martial display, she most definitely respects courage.
Heck, it's something which Discord -- were he not blinded by jealousy -- would respect about Tree Hugger. And may come to, in time.
3075009
It was clear that it was one sided when Fluttershy was suprised that he think of her as "bestest friend". Fluttershy as a whole in canon is clueless about romance unlike Rarity and Twilight (AJ is aware when someone is after her even though she herself isn't interested as in Simple Ways). Of course Discord is also not as obvious with crush as Spike but that's because he just doesn't understand both love and friendship. For now what he really know is that he really like her and is prepared to fight mane5 and destroy a hippie to save their relationship. Which is creepy and bad ass at the same time.
I think that Fluttershy won't really start noticing anything until he do something heroic since matching her with an asshole that laugh at someone being attacked by vines or Smooze isn't a best message for kids.
If Discord manages to do something genuinely brave and heroic when the series ends then and only then can I see her ever returning his feelings. He has to grow as a person first. This is still possible- they followed the same arc with Q in Star Trek, where he ended up being a friend to Picard and saving humanity. He could well end up saving Equestria in some way.
3075313
Yeah, this is what I mean when I say I dislike moral ambiguity in fiction. Not to say that a character needs to be pure good or pure evil. No, no... But when one mixes the obvious junk (stoner hippie environmentalist mystical whack-job) with very nice, friendly, virtuous qualities at the same time, my mind has a short circuit because it feels like the fiction is trying to mix in enough good to make the bad seem like it's good as well and maybe nobody will notice. This is how moral erosion often occurs in a society, and seeing it in action (intentional or not) chaps my hide.
I definitely agree that Fluttershy has had a powerful growth arc through all five seasons. It's very cool seeing consistent character growth in the show. The one I'm watching the closest is the CMC arc because that is ultimately going to indicate whether the show intends to keep them children forever like Simpsons style, or actually progress them into teenagers and eventually adults if the show lasts long enough. But as you said, shows are afraid to spoil the "magic formula" that people enjoy. And if the "blank flank" dilemma entertains, I suspect they will continue to put it off. Also, I imagine a there's an element of fan disappointment if/when they finally do get the marks. How many fan fictions have been written with various marks for each of them? How many will be decanonized the instant the CMC get canon cutie marks? I think it's a small price to pay though, if they actually did get 'em.
Yeah, Fluttershy is the quintessential ISFP personality. My mom is that type. Incidentally, just before I was around, she was a true-blue genuine late-60's hippie. I know the type well. ISFPs are extremely creative, and easy going. Stubborn in areas important to them. Flexible in every other way. Simultaneously activists and peacemakers. Definitely "lives in the present", not worried much about the future or dwelling on the past. Also makes decisions based on fealings rather than rational facts/evidence.
3075247 If you wanted to be honest, you would have put "EDIT" in your original post, instead of going back and adding 95% of the new post in, with no indication that this was a second thought. I didn't get the impression that you were a "knuckle-dragger." I got the impression of willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty, fueled by personal resentment.
3075533
I don't even know that she's morally-ambiguous, unless there is some major revelation about her awaiting discovery. She seems to be a rather straightforwardly good Pony, with some character flaws and quirks written to annoy the audience (she's smug, coarse and a bit over-affectionate) in similar ways to the ways they annoy Discord At the same time, they are a ones which would not annoy Fluttershy, who shares Tree Hugger's most important positive value (an appreciation for all Life) and who is obviously not bothered by smugness and coarseness in others -- she is friends with Discord and a menagerie of animals.
And Fluttershy is herself quite physically-affectionate toward Ponies (or other beings) she trusts: observe her affect towards Rainbow Dash or Harry the Bear. (Though my Fluttershy actually does have a strong sex drive, her affectionateness is not driven by lust -- rather, both her affectionate and her sexuality spring from acommon source: as my Rainow Dash, who is speaking from personal experience, puts it:
And we clearly see Fluttershy being warm toward Tree Hugger, and Tree Hugger responding with warmth of her own, in her rather different personal style. Tree Hugger probably both likes Fluttershy for her own personality and interests, and is flattered is flattered that somepony as prominent, important and heroic, and with whom she shares key values, strongly likes her and is willing to publicly-display friendship toward her.
This is true whether or nt there is any sexual attraction or relationship between them (though, naturally, a mutual affection makes a love affair between them more likely. Given the appropriate sexual orientation and situation (even if we assume my Fluttershy, who is both bisexual and polyamorous, we cannot take for granted that Tree Hugger is attracted to mares or not in a monogamous relationship with somepony else).
And Tree Hugger's faults seem no worse than, say, those of Season One Rarity. Or, for that matter,Season One Fluttershy, who in "Dragonshy" nearly gets everypony killed, on two occasions, due to her fearfulness. We tend to forgive Fluttershy, because she's cuter (and probably nicer) than Tree Hugger. But cuteness is superficial, and Tree Hugger hardly seems nasty. Just a bit vague and common, at the worst.
3076113 Personal resentment, I am perfectly willing to admit to (not towards you, by any means, but towards what I have found in my research and referred to in my previous posts regarding the pseudo-culture and Leftist indoctrination upon campuses).
Willful ignorance, you will have to prove; just because I have examined numerous fields of evidence and come to a different conclusion that yours does not mean I am ignorant, willfully or otherwise.
However, I will endeavor to put "Edit" where it is apropos to the situation; not being one who frequents online forums on even a somewhat regular basis, it did not occur to me that to do so was considered necessary, and I do apologize to you. My intellectual dishonesty was unintended; my honesty being something I cultivate whenever possible, this was not intended. Mea Culpa.
3076289 Good points. I suppose rather than moral ambiguity, one could say that she has "good intentions" but is caught up in some questionable belief systems for reasons that cannot be explained.
Moving this to your new blog post as that's actually more appropriate.
3076803
Remember first of all, Translation Convention. Rather than Hinduism or Buddhism, she's using terms from some foreign magical or mystical tradition instead of the more normal Equestrian terminology. Having said that ...
I don't know if auras are real in the MLP-verse. Magical and psychic abilities are most definitely real, and "auras" might be one way of perceiving and describing PKE fields given off by living things. Waterfalls aren't precisely living organisms, but Tree Hugger may well be sensing some sort of meta-life, such as the local ecosystem or even the planetary one, in which the waterfalls play a part. And some waterfalls may be more alive than others: remember the living mountain in the G1 episode "Crunch the Rockdog"? Tree Hugger herself by implication claimed that there was something special about that waterfall.
For that matter, electromagnetic auras given off by living things are very real. We can photograph them, and sharks and platypuses seek food in part by sensing them.
"Blessings" simply means "good fortune be upon you from supernatural forces." I don't know enough about the mainstream Equestrian attitude to religion to know if that's a foreign faith or something homegrown. The show resolutely avoids talking about such topics in any detail. In my fanon, one of the things Pinkie Pie can do is shift worldlines in favor of her friends, which essentially constitutes giving a blessing.
Reincarnation explicitly exists in the Shadow Wars Storyverse, though it's rarer than most Ponies who believe in it think, and works in a more complex fashion. Fluttershy herself may in part be a reincarnation of Posey. Twilight Sparkle is definitely a reincarnation of Dusk Skyshine, and in her case an almost-direct one. The (godlike) Cosmic Concepts can control their incarnations and sometimes choose to take bodies and dwell among mortals, for various reasons.
Some of Tree Hugger's statements to Discord may well have been intentional sarcasm.
Whatever she was doing, it worked. It sounded to me as if what she did was perform an Utter Flutter with her voice. The Smooze in my world was created by the Elder Things to restrain the Unknown God they caught in the God Trap if it started to break loose, so magic absorption is its most fundamental power. It's essentially an emotivoric variety of shoggoth.
It is especially because of this scene that I think that Tree Hugger is descended from the Flutter Ponies.
She's getting pissed at, and then frightened by, Discord. In context, she says the latter line when looking at something that might drive lesser Ponies mad at the sight. Her relatively calm reaction is proof of her courage -- at that moment, Wind Whistler (watching from inside Discord) respected her a lot.
.
"I don't hold it against you. But I'm still upset by what you almost did, so I am not feeling physically affectionate toward you yet; I might in the future if you give me a moment."
Phrased eccentrically, but I understood her just fine. In context, Discord had nearly tossed her against her will into a perhaps hostile alien dimension.
Incidentally, this episode was very much an excellent example of Lovecraft Lite.
I do not know of what nature is Tree Hugger's religion. I would suspect nature worship, based on what she said, what she does, and from what I think she is descended.
3075253
It's slurred between "Fluttershy" and "Sluttershy." It might have been a blooper so hilariously funny and appropriate in context (Discord's jealous rage) that they left it in and hoped the censors would miss it.
3075345 One of the wonderful things about Maud is that very little intimidates her. About the only thing of which she seems to be afraid is Pinkie -- and presumably her other loved ones -- being harmed. She very clearly thinks Discord is a jerk; Pinkie may well have been annoyed enough by Discord's huge canceled pastry order that she actually complained to Maud about it. Pinkie wouldn't really hold a grudge over that, but Maud well might.
In my fanon, Maud is almost-indestructible, and her toughness extends to her psyche as well; she's essentially a walking ward of Lawfulness, and would merely be annoyed by horrifying experiences that might leave most mares with permanent emotional damage. Discord is far more powerful than her, and could defeat her by being even moderately cunning about it (mostly, by staying out of Maud's reach and trapping her in something from which she could not easily escape), but he could not easily break her, and they both know this.
I go with her being just that tough-minded, as much due to a harsh if not cruel rural upbringing as anything. Well, that and having Pinkie Pie for a sister would probably leave anyone rather blase in the face of weirdness. Seriously, you should have seen some of my older female relatives who lived through the 30's and 40's. They weren't loud or blustering, but when they felt something needed to be taken care of it got done and no arguments. That said I feel that this episode showed us that Maud does have a sense of humor, albeit a very dry one, and as you said she does love Pinkie.
The Smooze was, you know, always a Ponification of H. P. Lovecraft's shoggoths. Its initial appearance in My Little Pony and Friends corresponded chronologically with the 1980's Lovecraftian revival. I would be very surprised if whichever writer created it hadn't read At the Mountains of Madness. When I explicitly have it be a product of the Elder Things, I'm just following the line of its conceptual origin.
I'd say this version of the Smooze is a rather mellow shoggoth -- no dashing down icy corridors and yanking the heads off of Elder Things while chanting 'Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!' for him.
And yes, Discord strolling in together with an eldritch abomination probably didn't make them feel any better. In fact, am I remembering wrong or did we see several ponies fainting when Discord and the Smooze showed up?
... but I suppose part of me half expected something like the infamous dance hall scene from The Creeping Terror.
Unintentionally-hilarious, that one. If you watch it carefully, aside from the obsession with panty-shots, the monster moves so slowly that its catching anyone is almost unbelievable; the "victims" essentially throw themselves down its mouth, and in one scene you can see the suit operators extending helping hands to one of the actresses pretending to be eaten by it.
If the Creeping Terror ever showed up in Equestria, the locals could defeat it by maintaining a steady walk. Between that and the fact that the ponies possess working survival instincts (how many of its victims just stood there, knees knocking together, as the Terror sl-o-o-ooo-wly shambled up to them and ate them?), it wouldn't stand a chance
I think that when one attends a party including both Discord and the Cutie Mark Crusaders, one must realistically assume that something messy is likely to happen. Possibly involving tree sap.
Rarity's prissiness about nudity has been a joke since Season One. Applejack even Lampshades it in one early scene. Doubly funny because Rarity -- like most Ponies -- normally goes nude: it's only in the context of dressing or undressing that Rarity displays any body-shyness. Fluttershy sometimes acts body-shy as well, and she also goes nude most of the time.
Rarity normally travels with a lot of clothes. I'm guessing that Spike helped her with her luggage in an unshown scene.
One can't say that the little purple Dragon hasn't had ample warning of into what he's getting himself if he actually succeeds in his courtship of Rarity.
He's going to need a second lair just for her outfits.
Tree Hugger was likeable but annoying at the same time. This was subtly and cleverly done: we got to see both what about her annoyed Discord and that what really annoyed him was that it obviously didn't annoy Fluttershy; AND that it wasn't really all that much, Discord was making a mountain out of a molehill because it suited his prejudices based on his desire to monopolize Fluttershy's attention.
Yes, it was obviously pure jealousy and envy on Discord's part. Might have felt surprising to him, since I doubt he ever felt any of those emotions before,, and probably wasn't even sure just HOW to handle a situation like this.
Though that song she did to calm the savage beast made me feel like someone was scraping their nails down a chalkboard.
It was also outside a Pony's normal vocal capabilities, and leads one to suspect that she's not at all a normal Pony. I'm thinking that she's part Flutter Pony, but she might also be part Sea Pony as well. She might even be some sort of shapeshifter.
Given her control over the Smooze I'd go with Flutter Pony. Though nothing precludes some Sea Pony in there as well. For all we know ponykind could be like humanity in most fantasy RPG settings, with so many other species mixed in a biologist would be left wondering how they even exist as a separate species any more. I've often wondered what Twilight Sparkle might discover if she ever invents that 'trace lineage' spell and finds out just who and what she and her friends are descended from.
3076857
Hmm, seems I didn't move my reply in time.
Then why use those terms at all? Accuracy in communication is important if an audience is to understand what is being said at all.
Okay, so are we meant to believe that this particular pony has some legitimate unique magical ability that even Twilight and Celestia don't possess?! Even Discord (who is arguably the most powerful magical creature to date) doesn't acknowledge this stuff. The very mention of it seems to make his skin crawl. (which would be terribly funny to see animated btw)
Sorry, no - I never watched G1.
Yes, yes, I understand that. I'm not talking about that kind of thing at all. I'm talking about the metaphysical new-age stuff that people try to pass off as some sort of spiritual phenomenon. I'm not talking about anything scientific here; all of that is a-ok. When Tree Hugger is talking about "his energy fields" I'm almost 100% sure that she's not referring to anything electromagnetic.
Much of the other stuff you mentioned I'm not familiar with, sorry. However, I did post most of my points regarding why I dislike Tree Hugger in this comment
Far and away the biggest reason is that her references to several Hindu/Buddhist concepts as if they were real, tangible things flies in the face of the established poniverse. It's adding too many ingredients to the soup. If this continues, then the entire poniverse will be so polluted with contradictory elements that there won't be any consistent canon to serve as a storytelling framework.
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The terms are used because what's clearly going on is that Tree Hugger -- and her subculture -- are using concepts from a partly-digested and misunderstood foreign religion to view their own Earth (or possibly Flutter) Pony magic. Tree Hugger comes from a group somewhat analogous to the mid 19th-century Transcendentalists, the late 19th-century Theosophists, or the mid to late 20th-century Beatniks/Hippies. This does not mean that she is a hippie in every sense of the term, and in particular it does not mean that she should be assumed to practice all the vices of the hippies.
One of the themes of Season Five has been "ordinary heroism." Where before we have usually seen the efforts of major heroes such as the Mane Six, the Princesses or Shining Armor save the day, this season we have seen unexpected courage and talent displayed on the part of only slightly-extraordinary Equestrians such as Party Favor and Tree Hugger. While none of the characters (not even Celestia) is entirely perfect, these minor characters are often more flawed than the major heroes. This is realistic, as they haven't been selected as literal paragons of virtue by the Forces of Harmony.
Tree Hugger is flawed. While I don't think she's a walking compendium of Hippie vices, I do think that her mysticism is a bit pretentious, phony and based at least slightly on a misunderstanding of both her own abilities and a foreign religion. She can be rather annoying in her obviously-false claim to All-Lovingness. On the other hand, she's clearly benevolent and courageous, and she does have a special and unique ability, which she is willing to use in a crisis. Her moment of fear at the climax was perfect characterization, because it shows that under her affectations is a real, equine mare.
What's more, her list of flaws and virtues make it obvious why she likes Fluttershy, and why Fluttershy likes her. Tree Hugger is a Kindred Spirit to Fluttershy, especially as regards their mutual love of nature and of rare animals. They have a lot they can talk about. Their specific abilities are just similar enough that they can compare notes; and just different enough that they can teach one another new things. Tree Hugger is probably thrilled to have a genuine Hero of the Realm admiring her own talents, and Fluttershy is happy to be accepted and understood by somepony like herself in so many ways.
Yes, why not? We've seen other Ponies who in canon possess abilities which Twilight and Celestia don't possess. Twilight is an incredibly versatile and powerful mage, and Celestia is probably in terms of raw power the most powerful Pony on the whole show, but neither of them is omnipotent. Every other member of the Mane Six can do something Twilight can't do (her unique talent) and something which Celestia can't do as well.
Specifically, Tree Hugger claims to be able to do two things: to Sense Life (and obtain detailed information regarding its state, if she concentrates) upon other organisms or possibly environmental components (such as waterfalls); and to influence that life with her singing. She demonstrates in-show that she can, indeed, do these two things. This is slightly different, but not entirely dissimilar, to what Fluttershy can do in vanilla-canon, when Fluttershy can understand the speech of, talk to and even command animals.
Could Celestia or Twilight duplicate these abilities? Possibly, given sufficient time and study of them. They might choose different ways of conceptualizing what they were doing than Tree Huggers mystical mish-mosh of foreign religions, but it's less about the concepts than the achievements. Celestia's a very experienced mage, and Twilight a very versatile one, so I'd incline toward "yes."
On the other hand, remember that in canon one's Talents can often be very specific. For instance, I do not think that Celestia could duplicate Pinkie's talent, save perhaps with extensive preparation, and then all she could do would be to duplicate some of it (in my fanon, derived here from Alex Warlorn's, Celestia can use the Pool of Truth to peer into alternate realities, which --- with considerable magical assistance -- lets her see some of what Pinkie can perceive with a mere effort of will). Twilight famously tried to understand Pinkie's talent, and received a chastening lesson that some problems are not very tractable, even to the super-intelligent.
In show the reason was probably that he finds her mystical assumptions of benignity creepy, the more so when they seem to work. In the Shadow Wars Storyverse, the reason was that this was the precise moment that he realized that Tree Hugger was actually a hybrid Earth Pony / Flutter Pony, and he has unpleasant history with the Flutter Ponies, who were -- before he Twisted most of them into the Changelings -- a race whose self-declared purpose was to be the guardians of the Harmony as expressed in the Earth's ecosystem. The Flutter Ponies had powers that were in particular extremely effective against a lot of his Chaos Magic, and were thus both hostile to him and a threat to his rule. They were also -- and this is G1 vanilla canon now -- one of the only forces on Earth that could stop the Smooze.
She's talking about psycho-kinetic energy. An emanation of "life force" (which is obviously real in the MLP-verse, because emotivores such as the Changelings or the Sirens can feed upon it) But -- and this is what annoys you, and would probably annoy Twilight Sparkle if she were locked in a room with Tree Hugger -- she's treating the subject mystically instead of scientifically. For all I know, this may sometimes annoy Fluttershy as well -- Fluttershy is most definitely a natural scientist (with particular interests in ecology and zoology) -- but not enough to impair their friendship.
I use the very same concept in the Shadow Wars Storyverse, as "life scent." The reason why Ponies often conceptualize it as a smell is that they are more scent-oriented than are Humans. We would probably perceive the same thing as a multi-colored glow. Shadow Wars Fluttershy, who is part Changeling and in consequence has their empathic senses, can directly perceive "life scent," so one of the reasons she finds Tree Hugger so fascinating is that Tree Hugger can perceive something which Fluttershy can also perceive but to which most Ponies are blind.
My take on this is that the contradictions are more apparent than real -- and, also, that one should not assume Tree Hugger to be omniscient or even well-informed regarding anything outside of ecology and what she can specifically sense and do with her Talent. I would worry more if Twilight Sparkle were the one providing exposition on this topic, because she is a rationalist and very good at figuring out why and how things occur.
3077803 It would seem that my distaste for Tree Hugger is greater than the sum of its parts. Individually, many of the annoyances can be explained away to an acceptable degree. It's when they are all lumped together in a highly annoying manner that it just grates the nerves, I think. Yes, I am a rationalist, much like Twilight. However, I also validate the spiritual because I believe it is a real explainable thing. When someone tries to use mysticism or irrational arguments to validate a concept (spiritual or otherwise) it rubs me all kinds of wrong. And when it's all wrapped up in an objectively bland side-character, I simply cannot coax out any love for this one. She's neither interesting, nor adorable, nor witty, nor necessary. Her "special talent" (if that is indeed what we saw) is grating to the ears. Definitely the opposite of the "calming auditory therapy" she was advertising. To me, the noises produced by her mouth had this effect:
I suppose for subjective reasons, I'm simply incapable of liking this pony. The many, many combined minor objective reasons are a major hurdle for someone like me to overcome, with the mysticism and how in my view it dilutes the consistency of the poniverse and its natural laws. Concepts such as reincarnation, chakra, and karma, in my view, have absolutely no place in the MLP universe which consists largely of secular arcane science. I'll try to just ignore this in the future and delete the incident from my personal headcanon I suppose.
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Probably de Lancie's fault. He's been known to ad-lib/mess up lines (there's a hilarious blooper from Star Trek DS9 where Sisko shoves Q up against a wall and says "Bring them back, Q!" And Q's supposed to say, "Or what? You'll thrash me?" In the blooper, de Lancie says, "Or what? You'll ravish me?" And then while he's apologizing for his screwup, Avery Brooks, the actor who plays Sisko, says "I might.")
I... actually can't see Discord using "slut" as an insult against Fluttershy. Or, well, anyone, not directly. If a pony is particularly insecure about a loved one's fidelity he might say something to that pony like, "It's hardly as if your paramour is a slut, now, I'm sure she's only been with three or four or five other stallions besides you", but because he himself doesn't have traditional views on sexuality, I really don't think he has the psychological underpinnings that lead a man to call a woman a slut. Discord thinks free and open sexuality is just fine, unless it's his lover trying to have free and open sexuality with someone who isn't him. :-) In any case, in my headcanon the word was "Fluttershy" and if it wasn't, that's John de Lancie's fault. :-)
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The insult would be out of character for my Discord as well, but then this might be interpreted as OOC Is Serious Business -- he felt so upset about what he (irrationally) considered betrayal that he flung an insult that only made sense within the context of a value system he (claimed to) completely reject. In the Shadow Wars fanon it would be the value system of Paradise Estate; in yours of the Realm before Equestria.
Now, neither of those were prudish either by our standards, or by the standards of modern Equestria (though both of them were more prudish than Discord himself is, now). But you'd be surprised at just how unreasonable someone who chooses to consider themselves a lover scorned can be when trying to rationalize irrational anger. Or, well, maybe you wouldn't be surprised -- you're probably not that far from my own age, after all. Discord was basically just reaching for any cultural tool which would justify his tantrum.
In Divine Jealousy, one of the important things Wind Whistler does is to demonstrate in detail how Discord doesn't have a claim on Fluttershy even by the moral standards of Paradise Estate (or, really, most cultures). That actually gets DIscord thinking that maybe blind rage isn't a good solution to his problem, but this is possible largely because he's always respected Wind Whistler. Not sure who could reach him as well in either your fanon or vanilla canon, in the equivalent situation. In the episode, it's Fluttershy who manages it -- mostly because she gets mad and is very direct when her dander's up.
I was amused that the episode brought up the exact same issue as my story, namely that Fluttershy had no idea that Discord was romantically attracted to her -- in my story, Luna has to confirm that it's even possible (those last two weeks on Paradise Estate, with Discord's courtship of Celestia and her own fateful jealousy, would be burned into her brain even if she didn't have an eidetic memory).
With Fluttershy and Tree Hugger there isn't (and couldn't be given the show's rating) any equivalent of the finding them in bed together scene that kicks off Divine Jealousy, but I was surprised by how close the show skirted it with some of the scenes in which Fluttershy and Tree Hugger were talking to one another. They act more like lovers reunited after an absence than mere friends; they're casually physically affectionate and frequently lock their gazes. Given Fluttershy's shyness, and Tree Hugger's obvious respect for her, they really couldn't do all that much more in public, anyway.
What's also interesting is that if you plot the chronology, Fluttershy and Tree Hugger would have first spent a lot of time together right before (and possibly in between) the episodes with Bulk Biceps. This supports more than I would have imagined my concept of Fluttershy as polyamorous, and probably the most promiscuous member of the Mane Six. In the case of my Fluttershy, the emotions involved with both of them (and Discord, and at least in a friendly sense Rainbow Dash) are quite sincere: Fluttershy is capable of romantically loving more than one Pony at the same time -- and has the charisma and kindness to manage that sort of situation.
Indeed. I was wondering how your fanon would handle this beauty. I don't like how they didn't use the song or kept the smooze purple. But that being said, it was a fun episode.
Since Maud in my verse is a avatars of the nothing-goddess that spawned Discord to begin with, he was being burned by his own mother.