Late Season 4: November 1504 (almost 4 1/2 years after Luna's Return, after "Equestria Games" but before Twilight's Kingdom).
Discord comes to visit Fluttershy and discovers that she is not alone. The furious God of Chaos considers what to do next. The traditional solution suggests itself, but maybe this would be unwise?
Perhaps he should consult someone wise? Someone he always keeps very close to him? Someone who always gives him good counsel, even if she's just a little bit miffed about that whole silly annihilation of her homeland and murder of her whole family and usurpation of her physical form thing, even though that was over twenty-five hundred years ago?
He fears she still has a grudge against him for all of this. Ponies so often take minor matters of this sort way too seriously ...
There's no other way! He must consult his inner Voice of Reason ...
Hope she's not still too mad at him ...
Yay!! New story!!
I like this!
Poor Discord.
Discord, you poor Draqonecuus, you... Great story, though!
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Poor Discord, indeed. What, no sympathy for Bulk?
I mean, maybe he's a waffle stealer, but it's more like the waffles were offered to him with love. And he really cares about the cook ...
4467572 Weeeeell... No. not really.
Jordan writing a Discord story...
Oh, this is gonna be good.
"Flappies" plural, huh? It'll be interesting to see how that works out.
I quite like the pairings. Flutterbulk is always strangely adorable, and Cheesepie is the best kind of reality-warping romance. That you're drawing inspiration from Scoots2's work is very encouraging. And then, of course, there's the fact that Fluttershy feels confident enough to allow herself to be loved.
)
(I especially like that not even Paradise itself knows what the crap is going on with Cheese Sandwich. Even shiny, happy Yog-Sothoth is stumped.
In any case, looking forward to more.
I am inwardly screaming with delight. And awww. Thanks!
I know my first thought was "Bulk? BULK? Seriously?" But he's on my list of plausible ships, isn't he, and handsome is as handsome does, and the heart has raisins that the raisins don't understand and all that. I can actually see why Flutters might pick him out: for all his size, Bulk is incredibly safe. He's kind of an equine version of Hairy the Bear.
I also cheered when Claire made her appearance. I can see why Bulk might feel a bit concerned, but he really is about as safe as he could be, and Claire is awfully cute for something that's got eight heads and tentacles.
I do feel sorry for Discord, although I see him as acting or feeling more like a disappointed child than a disappointed lover here. I'm really interested to see where this goes.
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I feel more sorry for Bulk than I do for Discord. I mean, I do feel sorry for Discord, in that he is completely clueless and didn't recognize that this was likely to happen and take steps to either prevent it or accept it ahead of time... but Fluttershy does not belong to Discord. If she has never made a romantic overture to him -- and given how very affectionate ponies are with their friends, I think it's quite reasonable to say she's never done anything that she thought could be misinterpreted as romantic -- and he has never made any to her, then she should expect Discord to be exactly as jealous of Bulk as any of her other close friends would be. (Although, since you seem to lean toward Flutterdash shipping, maybe at least one of her close friends would react the way Discord has, albeit with less potential transformation into inanimate objects.)
Bulk, however, is in love with a lovable pony, who just happens to be friends with a particularly volatile and immature god. He's the only one here who's done nothing wrong. (What Fluttershy did wrong was to not tell Discord ahead of time. If she had broken it to him more slowly by telling him about her friend Bulk and she thinks maybe she's in love, Discord would have picked up that Fluttershy is interested in romance with stallions other than himself, and would either have accepted that he was friendzoned because Fluttershy would still be giving him the attention he wants, or would have had time to come to terms with the notion that he wants something more and put some thought into how to win it. Discord doesn't have to actually want Fluttershy sexually to feel that she's throwing him aside for her bed partner, because close best buddy relationships are often damaged when one of the best buddies finds love. Had Fluttershy broken it to him slowly, she could have gotten it clear to him that this wasn't going to interfere with her friendship with him... but no, she didn't tell him, and ran the risk of him walking in on her and Bulk.)
Personally I despise the concept that a guy should avoid love with a woman who wants him and is not romantically involved with anyone else, just because there's another guy who wants to be romantically involved with her. I know that people with ship goggles glued to their face might feel like Discord deserves to be with Fluttershy and therefore Bulk deserves to be threatened by Discord, but this simply isn't true.
Poor Bulk he goes for the girl and some god dude decides to be well the god of making bad things happen. Btw I am confused was I suppose to read the "pony POVverse" series first? I didn't get the whole part about someone holding a grudge against Dissy. At first I was hoping it was Celestia since Delestia is my OTP next to SombraPie and FlutterBulk. Yeah I am in love with weird ships.
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Ah ... you get it!
Fluttershy is not exactly the most experienced mare at handling this sort of situation, for all she's the second oldest of the Mane Six (24 at this point in time). Her romantic experience consists, basically, of having a lifelong romantic friendship with very occasional and partial benefits with somepony who's known her since they were small fillies together (Rainbow Dash), being seduced and abandoned by a conniving hustler (Nosey) at 16; befriending and being physically-affectionate (but not overtly sexual) with Discord; and then, finally, recovering enough from the fear of stallions she got from encountering Nosey to open up to an actual love affair with a (admittedly outlier type of) normal stallion (Bulk).
Bulk -- as I've made obvious from his POV -- more or less worships Fluttershy. She's incredibly beautiful, has superpowers, and is an acknowledged and Heroine of Equestria who has repeatedly helped save the whole Realm and is one of the battle-companions of a Princess of Equestria. And she's a really sweet mare, on top of all that.
Bulk is humiliated that there's nothing he can do but run. Fluttershy makes him run, not because she wants to humiliate Bulk, but because she is terrified that Discord will kill or balefully transform him right in front of her. She is very much aware of what Discord can do, and while she's not very experienced she understands enough of male psychology to understand the basic reason why Discord might do it. (She would conceptualize it as male rivals fighting over a female as among many animal species, and she gets the implications of Discord's superior strength in any such confrontation).
Understand -- for all his gentleness, Bulk is no coward. If any other sort of assailant had appeared, he never would have run, and left Fluttershy to fight it alone. He's a Wonderbolt -- a member of an elite Guards Pegasus fighting organization that basically does shows on the side as a Pegasus recruiting strategy for the whole Guards. The notion of running from something and leaving a civilian to fight it (well, technically Fluttershy is Militia Reserve and as one of Twiliight's Companions theoretically a member of an elite Guards unit herself, but she's basically in a civilian occupation right now) -- let alone a beloved civilian -- that seriously bothers him.
Bulk's attitudes are actually not that dissimilar from those of Rainbow Dash, and he in fact likes Rainbow Dash -- she is the head of the Ponyville Weather Team and was his team leader at the Equestrian Games; and he admires her as a capable and caring commander. That's part of why Fluttershy is willing to accept him as a lover -- he reminds her of something between a male version of Dashie and Hairy the Bear. (She may not have fully communicated these thoughts to Bulk, for the obvious reasons).
Rainbow Dash actually likes Bulk too, and if Fluttershy's going to take a male lover she's glad that she's fallen for someone as fundamentally decent as Bulk Biceps. Dashie thinks he's a bit of a blockhead, but a courageous and caring blockhead, and her main concern is that Fluttershy not get involved with somepony who is going to hurt her. She knows Bulk won't hurt her. Rainbow Dash is very protective of Fluttershy, and her protectiveness far exceeds any jealousy she might feel. Whatever happens -- whoever they wind up marrying, whether each other or other people, Rainbow Dash will always love and be loyal to Fluttershy. It's simply in her nature.
Also, Rainbow Dash may be interested in someone else.
Yes, exactly. Bulk didn't even pressure her into sex. It was Fluttershy's idea. He's ecstatic that somepony like her wants him that way, but he would have loved her and been her friend with or without the sex.
The problems, I suppose, with Fluttershy's approach are twofold.
The first is that she's inherently polyandrous, or polyamorous, whatever you prefer to call it given that she's bisexual. She's not comfortable with promiscuity -- she really needs to like and trust somepony a lot to sleep with him -- but her instincts are essentially a combination of those of a Pegasus with those of a Changeling Queen, and they're telling her to either raise a brood of Pegasi or start her own Hive with by getting started on some nymphs.
Her upbringing was more than a little bit unusual too -- she was mostly raised by her crazy mother and then fled to become a semi-hermit living in the woods. Her morality is more about love and trust than about reputation, though she's not entirely innocent of the concept of reputation either. And, anyway, Equestrian morals aren't that opposed to pre-marital sex, and the Pegasi are notoriously the least sexually moral of the Pony Kinds (a reputation they have largely because few ponies are aware that the Changelings are one of the Lost Kinds). (*)
The second is that she's very inexperienced with this sort of situation, so she didn't realize why she had to communicate better with everyone with whom she has any kind of romantic involvement. Rainbow Dash -- who is not exactly suave herself -- makes allowances for Fluttershy's shyness, as she's been doing for going on fifteen years by the point of this story. Bulk and Discord don't know Fluttershy quite so well.
The third, of course, is that she's dealing with Discord, who is basically a giant baby with incredible semi-phenomenal almost-Cosmic powers. Discord is hard to deal with at the best of times. Even Fluttershy thinks so, and she genuinely loves him.
In any case, Fluttershy would be perfectly happy with "all of the above" when it comes to a choice of mates. And she's naive enough that it never occurred to her that there might be any problem with it, especially if she failed to discuss the issue with anyone. What happens, really, is a logical consequence of this naivete, made all the more worse because it is Discord going off in a jealous rage.
Note well, though, that when push came to shove, even an angry Discord wasn't able to bring himself to hurt Fluttershy. Bulk, sure. But Fluttershy, no.
No way, no how would Fluttershy drop a friend -- even if it wasn't one that she'd been practically given as a Royal assignment by Princess Celestia -- because she took a lover. Fluttershy has very few friends, and she values them way too much to casually lose them. But then, she hasn't talked about this explicitly to anypony either. Though Rainbow Dash could tell you. Not that Discord would ever ask Rainbow Dash anything, especially about that sort of topic.
As for Rainbow Dash and Discord, they're not particularly jealous of one another. Dashie's main fear involving Fluttershy and Discord is that he will hurt her, emotionally or physically, and compared to that fear, her jealousy is irrelevant. And even Discord understands how Pony emotions work well enough that he knows that Fluttershy's romantic friendship with Dashie has been going on since they were small, and that if he tries to interfere with it they will both be angry at him. He doesn't much care if Rainbow Dash is mad at him, but he does care if Fluttershy is mad at him.
Plus, Rainbow's female. I don't need to tell you the stereotypically male attitude regarding a love interest being bisexual, and possibly having a girlfriend, do I? Let's just say that it's crass, and that Discord has it in spades.
Rainbow, incidentally, would never want a threesome. And if she did, it would not be one involving Discord. Or even mentioning Discord. Rainbow does not like Discord.
This actually goes back to the fact that she was the only one of the Mane Six who was indirectly Discorded by fairly simple trickery, as opposed to being mind-controlled or slowly broken. She's terribly ashamed of that, and it made her really hate Discord -- a hate that has now faded to deep dislike, but in any case makes sexual love for him right out of the question for her.
Rainbow Dash is, in her own way, quite a romantic idealist -- having almost a rough version of the Cult of Courtly Love. And having sex with her enemies is very much forbidden by her idealistic moral code. Definitely back when she's first introduced on screen, and that part of her code hasn't changed a bit in the intervening four years.
Discord, by the way, could have avoided the worst and most embarrassing aspects of this situation by simply not planewalking into Fluttershy's BEDROOM. Going right into somepony else's bedroom without knocking is considered very rude in Equestria and pretty much every Pony society throughout history. Yes, Rainbow Dash once did this to Fluttershy, but that's because Rainbow Dash is brash and Fluttershy's lifelong best friend. And Fluttershy was still irritated by her behavior.
I completely agree. I'm very glad that you see that the part narrated from Discord's POV expreses his opinion of the situation -- not my own. And Discord is very biased on this matter.
===
(*) Some Pegasi would retort that it's more important to ensure that the best genes have the maximum opportunity for propagation, and that the absurd obsession with family and marriage on the part of the Unicorns and Earth Ponies weaken them, which is why those Kinds need the Pegasi to protect them. Others, of course, would reply that their morals are as good as those of any other Kind, but that they are simply less hypocritical about them. Still others are quite prudish -- the Pegasi aren't turned out on cookie-cutters, where sexual or any other attitudes are concerned.
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Oh -- I'm glad you like what I've been doing with this story.
Plus in canon they act attracted to one another. And for Fluttershy to flirt with a stallion is so very much OOC that I think the writers very much meant to imply that something was developing there.
If you look at when this happens, it's in the aftermath of their success at the games, when both of them would be feeling happy about have worked hard on something together which turned out well. It's exactly the kind of shared experience that -- given that they initially liked one another, would lead to romance.
Fluttershy is actually, once she gets over her shyness with somepony, a fairly direct Pony sexually. She understands the "game" from the POV of making sure that the other Pony really cares about her (as I explained in A Robust Solution) and that's pretty much it. She's not at all prudish, just shy -- which is not the same thing.
This doesn't mean that she's very sexually experienced. She's not. Quite the contrary, she's only ever done anything sexual before this with Rainbow (and done that well short of even full intercourse by lesbian standards) and with Nosey (full intercourse) when she was 16. The experience with Nosey frightened her off from stallions for eight years -- this is Fluttershy finally becoming confident enough again to look for a stallion lover.
Discord is not her lover. She loves him and she's very physically-affectionate toward him, but they haven't done anything overtly sexual yet. She might at some point in the future -- but she won't if he starts seriously threatening her other friends. Or lovers.
Discord is making very big and very possessive unwarranted assumptions here.
And remember: Fluttershy almost always gets her way.
Claire was actually snatching Bulk to safety, because her twin sister Pinkie asked her to do so. Pinkie really should have explained to Bulk about Claire, but time was short and Pinkie is demonstrably in canon sometimes a very poor communicator, on any topic other than arranging parties.
Exactly. I feel sorry for him too, and I understand why this is serious to him, but -- he's reacting childishly.
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Ah. The pony who holds a grudge against Discord, whom we shall soon meet, is the original owner of the body Discord is using, and twisted into a Draconequus form some 2500 years ago. That's the major PonyPOV reference.
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On the CheesePie love ...
This is, obviously, fairly early in their relationship. On my chronology, Pinkie meets Cheese in late August 1504, this is mid November 1504, which is a bit over 3 months -- but Cheese has been traveling all over Equestria most of those months, stopping over in Ponyville only a few times and briefly. So they're still very much getting to know one another.
Pinkie is something of the opposite to Fluttershy where her approach to love is concerned. She's very extroverted but she's cautious about sexual involvement even if she likes someone -- she likes a lot of Ponies and if she weren't sexually-restrained she'd be having sex with the whole town. As it so happens, she's at this point in her life still a virgin -- this is partially because she's a very strange filly (hence incompatible with most other Ponies) and partially because she's slow to psychologically mature (she's 23 years old but she is emotionally much more like an exceptionally-silly early to mid adolescent).
She's seriously thinking about making Cheese Sandwich her lover, and she's hoping this will last and develop into betrothal and marriage. She already loves him and thinks they are very compatible; she mostly wants to get to know him a little better and discuss their intentions. Neither of them is a very direct communicator about anything other than parties, too, so this may be a bit difficult and strange for both of them.
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Excellent thanks for explaining it. It seems you have a very interesting headcanon here I like how you wrote everyone since you mentioned flutters being bi would Pinkie and Dash be straight? I admit in my canon Pinkie is a huge slut pardon my language there but its actually kinda nice to see her portrayed as a virgin for once.
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Applejack, Rarity and Pinkie are straight. Twilight is mostly-straight but very strongly attracted to one particular mare. Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash are both bisexual -- Fluttershy prefers males, Rainbow Dash has no particular preference in this regard.
None of them are promiscuous. Though some of them have varying degrees of sexual experience.
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You know, I can see why, to most Ponies, being pulled through a Gate in spacetime to an unknown location by a giant invisible tentacle-monster does not immediately seem like a "rescue."
I'm in the process of reading that series. It's good, but thus far, I prefer your work.
In any case, Discord's thought process is quite enlightening. No wonder he's so petulant; he hasn't emotionally matured at all since his betrayal. He hasn't had to. Everything's been easy, and as you've noted before, Discord is fundamentally lazy. He's only going to do something if it amuses him, and growing up certainly won't. He's Peter Pan without a Hook. He's frittered away all his lost boys and massacred the Indians, and now he's alone in Never-Never Land. So, bereft of options, it's time to talk to Tinkerbell.
Looking forward to more.
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I completely agree. Bulk's totally innocent in this scenario. The heartbreaking thing is that there is nothing a stallion could do in this situation but run. I don't actually blame Fluttershy, either, because sometimes things move more quickly than you think they will, and besides, she doesn't need Discord's permission. Usually she wants everypony to be ok with everything, but that's a really awkward conversation to have, anyway. Besides:
Amen. It's like listening in on a conversation, only more so. It's your own fault if you don't like what you hear. I think that with the cider day situation, Fluttershy expected Rainbow Dash to come and get her--just not that early, not through the window, and not to yank the covers off her.
You know, I was wondering about this. Aside from the more lurid possibilities, there's also the possibility that Discord might think that since Rainbow is another mare, it "doesn't really count."
EDIT: Also, on Pinkie's basic neotany: personal headcanon time, but I think Cheese is very aware of her emotional youth and very careful about hurting her for that reason. The irony being, of course, that both chronologically and emotionally, he's not much older himself! I always thought that the deep "Cheese. Cheese Sandwich," and the "little fillies" stuff is the voice he puts on to sound like a very mature and very masculine pony, whereas the tone you hear in "If you wanna be the life of the party" is his natural voice--a tenor.
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Yep. He's not even exploiting Fluttershy. He's treated her with love, friendship and respect. I'm not saying he's perfect -- he has various flaws -- but none of them involve any sort of cruelty or contempt for Fluttershy. Quite the contrary.
Yes. All he could become by staying in the situation would be a victim -- or hostage. And his continued presence might either enrage Discord into a rash attack or -- worse -- tempt him into a cunning one.
Look at it from Fluttershy's point of view. When she was sixteen, her encounter with Nosey convinced her that she was both immoral and unlovable. Starting around four years later, she began slowly recovering from this, gaining confidence both in her own basic decency and her likeability.
She's spent most of this time in a sort of will-they-won't-they half-sexual lesbian romantic relationship with Rainbow Dash, which between her own shyness and Rainbow's combination of protectiveness and romantic obliviousness has never gotten beyond, basically, making out. And Rainbow has a very weak sex drive.
Fluttershy actually has a strong sex drive and relatively few inhibitions once she decides to trust somepony enough that way. She's just never been anything but frustrated by this combination, because Nosey made her afraid of stallions and the only mare she's ever really been interested in that way is Rainbow, who doesn't really want to make love to her that badly, but rather simply be a very physically-affectionate friend.
The next thing that happens to her is that Celestia tells her, essentially, that it's vital to the security of the Realm and the whole world to be Discord's, well, assigned friend. Being Fluttershy, she's actually charismatic and nice enough to pull this off. She finds herself loving him, maybe being on the brink of falling in love with him -- but Discord is also utterly terrifying.
We are talking about the being who twisted and tormented her whole paternal race, who used to be the Flutter Ponies. He's what the Changelings are hiding from, even though they've half-forgotten this after 1500 years of his imprisonment and have mostly just become terrified of everything not a 'ling of their own Hive. He's a genocidal maniac, even if his alignment has been starting to drift toward good -- lately.
And while Fluttershy almost always gets her own way, with everypony and everything (it's part of her larger Talent) she's not sure what she really wants here. So what she does with Discord, basically, is show him her cutest and nicest side, save when he behaves badly -- and he wants to make her happy so he behaves better and better when he's around her.
So they've been starting to get a little bit cuddly and sometimes she'll fall asleep with him, and he's utterly entranced by her. But she's not going to make the first move, and Discord is terrified that if he does that she'll hate him, because there's a side of Discord that actually wants to be loved but doesn't have the first notion of how to get love by any means other than threatening others -- which doesn't actually work all that well, as his Voice of Reason is about to (contemptuously and sarcastically) point out to him.
What Fluttershy has done is make herself what amounts to Celestia's G- (or PG-) rated Honey Trap for Discord. And in a way that constantly teases her with intimacy, but she's not sure if making an explicitly-sexual approach to him would mean that he'd love her forever or go mad and turn her into something horrible
So here's Fluttershy, whose sexual desire has been growing as her fear of stallions has been waning, and she finds herself teamed up with Bulk in the Equestria Games relay race. And he's a stallion. And at first he's kind of annoying because he seems like a noisy jerk and he keeps literally falling on her, but she's nice to him because she has a job to do and kindness is one of Fluttershy's central personality traits.
And she finds out as she gets to know him that he's not really a jerk, just really nervous about competing in an athletic field that may not be his strong suit. She gets to talking to him and gets to know him as an individual, and she realizes that he's actually a pretty sweet guy. In some ways the inverse of her but from similar motives -- he gets nervous in social situations, doesn't know what to say, so he just shouts enthusiastically and hopes that other ponies will accept that as a response.
So to her surprise -- her and a stallion find themselves becoming friends. She finds out that he's not so scary, he doesn't want to hurt her or pretend to be her friend just to have sex with her then disappear, he genuinely seems to like her for who she is. Admire her, in fact. And a hope that she gave up on eight years ago rekindles in her heart.
The time scale (by my chronology) is relevant here. The teams are picked sometime around "Flight to the Finish" (July 1504). She first makes friends with Bulk about a month later, in "Rainbow Falls" (August 1504). "Equestria Games" takes place around three months later (November 1504).
Now, in "Rainbow Falls," she makes friends with Bulk. You can plainly see that -- at the start of the episode she finds him annoying but is trying not to let on to avoid hurting his feelings, while by the end she is behaving solicitously to him, being silly with him, even mildly flirting with him.
And in "Equestria Games," she's very clearly interested in him sexually. Look at that first scene with them on the train. She's sitting on his barbell in a position where he cannot help but notice certain of her physical attributes, and she can do the same thing regarding him.
Now, nudity is normal in Equestria, and it's clothing that they find erotic (semi-canon, the show won't talk about this but notice some of the fashion designs and how they are worn). But there seems to be a general social rule that you don't flaunt yourself that way at another Pony unless you are pretty seriously flirting. Note the tail positions in some scenes. Note in particular the (much subtler) flirting Rarity engages in when she's recruiting male help for some project.
So, sometime between August and November 1504 Fluttershy cements her friendship with Bulk, and maybe they start going a bit beyond just being friends. I don't know when they actually start having sex (my story of course assumes that they do at some point) but the time Discord discovers what's happening was probably not their first time together. One likely possibility is that they do so either soon before or soon after the Equestria Games, because Fluttershy is heavily flirting with Bulk in public on that train care, and OOC Is Serious Business.
Though it's actually not implausible. Fluttershy is outrageously flirting with Bulk on that train in utter exuberant joy at the fact that she finally has a special somepony, that a stallion finally really cares for her, something she's probably imagined to be impossible (*). Look at the look on her face as she rides that barbell. She is utterly happy. And Fluttershy can be quite extroverted in the rare moments in which she is that happy. (This is why I think they may have consummated their love before that train ride).
So it's not actually that sudden. Sudden by Fluttershy's normal incredibly-shy standards, sure. But then, when a dam breaks, it tends to break all at once.
Precisely. As the Voice of Reason is going to point out to him. In her usual cold and intellectual manner.
Exactly.
Fluttershy's mistake was not remembering that Discord does this sort of thing, and realizing the implication that her cottage was about the worst place for a tryst with Bulk.
But then she's still relatively young (24) in love with a stallion who loves her back for the first time in her life, and she's really disconnected from most Equestrian social norms, Pegasus or otherwise, because she's been living as a semi-hermit for half her life. As I said, she's fairly inexperienced in every sense of the word, sexually and socially.
(*nods*) That too. Plus, he sort of likes Rainbow Dash, as he sort of likes all the other members of the Mane Six. They're fun to play with. And he also knows that Fluttershy's romantic friendship / semi love affair thing dates back to long before he met Fluttershy, let alone became her friend. So he doesn't perceive her as an "intruder."
Yes -- I noticed that in your Cheese Pie stories, they kind of come off as two kids in their early teens falling in love with each other, though they're obviously more in their early twenties chronologically speaking. And I think that this makes perfect sense.
Pinkie in my fanon is attracted to two males in particular -- Big Mac and Cheese Sandwich. But Big Mac she relates to as sort of a younger version of her (step) father's emotional type, which means she really likes him but it's not all that romantic/sexual (though it could have become that in time). Cheese Sandwich she sees as her soul-mate, and barring the discovery of some terrible tanit in his character or the occurrence of some awful tragedy, she's very likely to marry him. Which means that Big Mac will wind up being her good friend, which is okay since that's basically what Big Mac sees himself as regarding her anyway.
Oh and yes -- Ponies who notice Pinkie's neoteny tend to feel protective toward her, unless they are rather nasty Ponies indeed.
===
(*) Yes, she's incredibly beautiful in canon. But being beautiful is no guarantee that one really believes one is beautiful.
4474810 I'm not sure that Bulk and Fluttershy are at quite that level on the train, but she is clearly comfortable with him. Even much earlier, in Rainbow Falls, she's giggling at the muscle thing and running after him when he gets a hoof to the face. A viewer doesn't have to see this with shipping goggles, but since usually my response to a Ship Tease is "oh, gah" and not squeals of delight, when I see it at all, it's probably deliberate. And I definitely agree that:
That's kind of what I meant by "things move more quickly than you think they will." If a romance has been at a slow boil for months, where the parties are becoming friends and not really sure of the other's romantic interest, the line can be scary to cross--BUT when it's done, the acceleration can happen seemingly suddenly, because most of the reasons for delay don't apply, if that makes sense. And I didn't get the impression from the story that this was the first time they'd been together.
Oh, and on Pinkie and Cheese: Yeah, that's about right. There's a lot of naivete going on. It makes them fun to write. In EG, where I do have to nail down an age, I place them at about 16-17 years old--but the creators of that have engaged in a bit of age shenanigans there, including making Fluttershy the same age as Pinkie, and Babs Seed older than Applejack!
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It could have started in the Crystal City (exotic and romantic setting, they'd just gotten a Silver together and were really happy about that). Or after they got back. They're already obviously feeling emotionally very close on the ride in to the Games, though.
Actually, thinking about this makes me want to do a romance fic about how they courted. It's probably a really warm and fuzzy story, mostly. But I really shouldn't start anything like that until I finish Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason and Dragonshyness.
Oh yes. I didn't have the heart to inflict that on Fluttershy.
"Yay! I've finally found love! What could go wrong now?"
POOF!
"Discord?"
Nope, nope, nope. Too cruel.
Yes, plus they're all high school age in that world, while we know that the Mane Six would all by now be too old, and the CMC are really more like junior high school age at the most.
Given the time frame you've set this, I wonder if you're envisioning this as kind of a setup for the betrayal in Twilight's Kingdom. I mean, if you're following canon, we know that Discord won't annihilate Bulk, he won't do anything that will make Fluttershy hate him forever... but that he will, in the near future, decide he wants to trade Fluttershy's friendship for a "friendship" that makes him feel powerful and dangerous and free to do what he wants, rather than a friendship that constantly involves compromising his own desires. And feeling as if Fluttershy has betrayed him, even though they reconciled and resumed their friendship, might be the kind of motive that would lead him to do that.
It would also explain why the Mane 6 were ready to forgive him so easily. If Discord out of nowhere decides, la la la, hey Tirek has a good offer!, the way it looks in canon... how could they possibly ever really trust him again? But if they know that he was hurt by Fluttershy's relationship with Bulk and that it did damage to their friendship... it makes it a lot less likely that, after a true reconciliation once Discord has seen what real betrayal looks like, Discord would ever make that decision again. It puts it into a context that makes it more understandable, though not acceptable, and if they can understand his motives as something that are not likely to reoccur, they can more easily begin to trust him again afterward.
4474531
Is Cheese older than Pinkie at all? She inspired him to get his cutie mark, which means he was markless when she was in Ponyville already setting up parties. I thought Cheese is actually younger than Pinkie, for that reason. Just better at faking maturity. :-)
4476858 Actually, that works, too. You'd be amazed at how many writers conceive him as considerably older and more sophisticated than Pinkie, which breaks my brain. I suspect that because people see Pinkie as the youngest or the second-youngest of the Mane Six, they look at a seemingly fully adult itinerant pony and assume "oh, he's older than she is." But since he's a colt when he meets her, he can't be a lot older, if he's older at all. She's still a filly. It puts them in the same age bracket, which is the important bit. I tend to think of him as a late bloomer: a short pudgy little blank flank who is about to have one heck of a growth spurt in more ways than one.
It only really matters at all in an EG fic, I think, where age is a thing. It's convenient for me to write it so that he is a senior and she's a junior, for my own purposes. As far as I know, I'm the only one writing EG Cheese, because if any character could jazz that up, it would have to be Cheese. But it wouldn't worry me to see it written differently.
4476847
You hit the nail on the head. This is meant as canon filler to explain some aspects of Twilight's Kingdom -- Discord's Face-Heel Turn (he's miffed at Fluttershy), his subsequent regrets (just because he's mad at her doesn't mean he's actually stopped loving her), and his forgiveness by the Mane Six (they are pissed at him for what he did, but are also aware that it was more like a temper tantrum than a calculated betrayal).
I got the idea when I realized that "Equestria Games" implied Bulk and Fluttershy were either lovers or close to consummating their love, and that the episode right after that is the one in which Discord betrays them. So I put two and two together and got five, because that's what Discord set it to today.
And yes ... our comments crossed.
4476932
Cheese Sandwich has probably been in many more routinely dangerous situations, with much less power and support, than has Pinkie. By which I mean that I doubt that Cheese has ever wound up fighting Dragons or insane gods or tyrants to save the world, but he's probably had to deal with hazards on the road. And without five super-powered friends backing him up. Though he has, basically, his own version of Pinkie's powers -- but not Granny Pie's training -- he's had to learn how to use his powers on his own.
4476932
Another interesting thing about Pinkie Pie and Cheese Sandwich is that they are recapitulating the Pony culture of the Time of Extermination six thousand years ago, in microcosm. Pinkie's the sedentary mare, while Cheese might as well be her one-stallion Big Brother Herd.
Kicker's compiling the 'good parts' version.
When did Twilight meet Claire?
4481274
Presumably at some point in between the canon stories. I'd guess after Return of the Elements of Harmony at the latest (Paradise would probably disengage from this Universe or at least keep a very low profile, if Discord had won -- in my continuity they actually did confront one another in a quarrel over whether Discord could play with Trixie, and Paradise won the first round mostly because Discord wasn't really willing to put much effort into it when there were much more fun things to do.
4481223
Twilight Sparkle and Cloud Kicker just have a different definition of the "good parts." Note that mine, personally, would probably in fact be closer to Cloud Kicker's!
4481834 Did you write about it?
4481839
Sadly, not yet.
4481860 It would make an interesting story.
Coming soon to a bookstore near you: So You Want to Incite a Rebellion, by Princess Twilight Sparkle. Preorder yours today!
As for this chapter, well, not much to say. The players are moving into place for the next scene, the plot is being shared, and Twilight narrowly avoids stripping the gears of her mental clockwork. Still, glad to hear that we're averting those "everypony dies" timelines. After all, StableTech hasn't even been founded yet.
In any case, looking forward to more.
4481860
That "yet" gives me great hope.
*double space
... I'm sorry, but whenever they say "the Twister," I can't help but think of the natural disaster rather than the occupation / title.
4483046
The thing about Twilight Sparkle is that she is so in love with logic for its own sweet sake -- and so fascinated and concerned by the potential responsibilities of being a Princess of Equestria, that she very well might publish an essay or book with that exact title, without stopping to think of how it might be taken or what others might do with the knowledge. She's lucky that Princess Celestia understands Twilight well enough that she would just gently point out to Twilight that the choice of title was, perhaps, infelicitous.
*double space
"Swallowing his pride (it tasted like honeyed almonds)"
Huh. Pride is poisonous, I suppose.
Didn't see any errors this time. Yay!
4483720
I personally think it's hilarious that Jordan was using that name for Discord for quite some time before the season 4 finale, in which Discord takes the form of a pony with the cutie mark of... a twister.
*original
*And
*double space
This chapter. I like it.
4484077
I'm glad you did. Say, I wonder at what points you and others got that the Original Occupant, the Voice of Reason herself, is none other than G1 Wind Whistler?
Fluttercruel EXISTS IN THIS REALITY?! 0-0 :-( Oh boy. He just going to keep her in a coma forever?
Ironically in the pony pov verse, his cousin Nyarlathotrot is still on good terms with him.
I LOVE Discord struggling with his own brand of logic and his newfound sense of caring for others.
That's Twilight Sparkle alright.
More afraid for the stallion than for herself, thought Twilight. Yep. That's love.
It's also FLUTTERSHY! She doesn't have a self serving bone in her body!
YOu mention how Luna and Pinkie Pie are BOTH connected emotionally to Twilight's previous incarnations, but different ones, I know they remember to care for the Twilight Sparkle that exists HERE AND NOW.
4484274
I've been keeping a sort of side-score as I write my universe where it diverges from yours, and one of the POD's is that when Fluttercruel starts to surface, Fluttershy reflexively Stares her away from a full awakening without even fully grasping what's going on. This both helps and hurts Fluttershy -- she's not driven to become Nightmare Whisper with all the horrible attendant personal consequences, but she also doesn't have the advantages of being, essentially, a two-crew life form. She also is not yet aware that she's Gaia.
Discord can sense Fluttercruel within her because he knows what to look for. Discord wants Fluttercruel to awaken, but he also wants her to have a body of her own. His intent has been to provide her one the old-fashioned way. This -- beyond his hurt feelings -- is the plan that Bulk threatens. (He doesn't want Fluttercruel to consider Bulk her true father, and plus Bulk would "corrupt" Fluttercruel with his inherent lawfulness). Plus, a half-draconequid form would probably suit Fluttercruel better anyway.
Another POD, which happens during Discord's short rampage in September 1502, is that Discord is not able to experiment on Trixie because Trixie is in one of the few (relatively) safe places on Earth that day, namely the Pie Rock Farm, which is protected by Granny Pie's wards -- modeled after the Crystal Heart, which was one of the few artifacts actually effective against Discord. This is one of the reasons Discord loses that fight -- he doesn't know what to look for or do to ensure Twilight Sparkle is broken. My explanation for why he fails to grasp that the Element Bearers have been un-Discorded when they approach him the second time is that his Voice of Reason is deliberately feeding him bad advice.
Plus, Discord can be lazy. He could, of course, use his awesome powers to break through the wards in the hills of South Dunnich, or ordinary observational skills to back up his jammed instincts, but he doesn't bother. His laziness is probably his most serious limitation. He's never really lived a fully-mortal life, and it shows -- he can get very sloppy.
Five Kinds, including the two who were now thought of as the Lost Kinds, and many other creatures.
Earth Pony
Pegasus
Unicorn
Seapony
Flutterpony
Then Breezies, Changelings, and Crystal Ponies need to be added as tribes now. And the aquatic ponies have split into the mereponies and seaponies tribes.
--
Of course we now know the breezies SURVIVED the destruction of Age of Dreams, if in their own private pocket reality away from the deadly deadly world outside now totally unsuited to them.
the Megan was still so worshiped in many locations, though her true nature had long since been forgotten.
And the first and worst of the baddies Megan ended REFUSED TO STAY DEAD.
important to the oriinal occupant
important to the original occupant
On her long and rather beautiful tail was her one concession to ordinary femininity -- a white bow
Well it was tradition at the time.
I take it in this timeline, Discord doesn't give much thought to his mother, or half-sister (they have the same mother, even if he has no father)?
4484319
That's an extremely good point. Here both her kindness and her romantic feelings are converging to make her want to protect Bulk.
Pinkie Pie actually handles this better, because Pinkie is an extremely loving Pony, and she finds it incredibly fun to tease Twilight's sometimes rigid sense of order with deliberately chaotic humor. (Which is also what Discord likes to do to Twilight as well, Pinkie's just more good-natured about it). The one thing that Pinkie Pie is determined to do is make sure that Twilight survives whatever happens to her, and she's willing to exert all her reality-warping powers to make it happen.
Not that Luna isn't capable of strong love -- she is -- but she's definitely more selfish than is Pinkie Pie, and what she really wants is Dusk back -- but Twilight isn't the same as Dusk, just similar to him (but then, Luna's not really identical to Moondreamer, either). Luna doesn't understand Pony nature as well as does Celestia, but fortunately for her Twilight connects very strongly to Luna's intellectual and artistic sides (and, being no pacifist, admires Luna's warlike side as well).
4484395
I assume that the Crystal Ponies are simply other kinds of Ponies which have become imbued with the Lawful magic of the Crystal Heart.
The Breezies really are Ponies, but tend to get overlooked in the (official) list of Kinds.
The Changelings were derived from the Flutter Ponies, but really aren't Flutter Ponies any more. There also may be unmodified Flutter Ponies kept hidden by the Celestial Dragons of Chi-Neigh, that's a persistent rumor in my verse.
So yes, technically it's more than Five Kinds, you're right. Six or Seven Kinds, and more unknown, like the Deep Ponies who are originally the result of interbreeding between the Sea Ponies and the Deep Ones, but have essentially become their own race now (I mention them briefly in An Extended Performance).
That's okay. In the successful ending, where the Ponies spread out across the Universe, many new Kinds emerge on many new colony worlds.
Yes, well, that's an occupational hazard when defeating supervillains!
FWIW, if Megan hadn't beaten Tirek the first time, the Time of Extermination would have, really, ended in the extermination or transformation of all Ponykind, and the world might have belonged to Tirek's species instead. So it was still a worthwhile victory.
Heh -- Discord, who was raised by Ponies and has (a warped version of) their sense of aesthetics, totally gets why Ponies find the little tail-bow thing hot. What weirds him out is that the most impressively Badass Pony he's ever known -- the one who invented a good percentage of the Pegasus weapons, fought and won impossible battles millennia ago, and who he finds personally intimidating (remember, he spent 20 years as "weird little Dissey" on Paradise Estate before he remembered he was a Chaos God) wears a cute little white tail-bow. And still chooses to do so, even after he consumed her twenty-five centuries ago.
You make me wonder how many PODs you have for Chrysalis.
4484491
Well, for one thing, she's explicitly trying to awaken her Nightmare.
And wishes Fluttershy would do the same.
Mostly because she doesn't totally understand what this would imply, all she sees is "power!"