• Member Since 14th Nov, 2011
  • offline last seen Wednesday

Zobeid


More Blog Posts36

  • 3 weeks
    Minty and Samurai Nyx

    Believe it or not, I'm still alive and have been writing.

    Read More

    1 comments · 38 views
  • 211 weeks
    FF7 Remake

    Exploring the slums in Midgar is an amazing videogame experience. In most RPGs I expect an urban setting to be mostly empty with a few generic, token NPCs standing around. Walking down the street in this game, there are people everywhere. They’re all wearing different clothes, different faces, working at different tasks that actually make sense in this context. They’re also chatting to one

    Read More

    0 comments · 313 views
  • 371 weeks
    The View Over Atlantis

    I'm having some really conflicted feelings about The View Over Atlantis. I'm just about to wrap up what I think of as "Book One" of the story. After that, there should be a change in setting and tone as we get into the next phase, or the next book.

    Read More

    3 comments · 519 views
  • 375 weeks
    Samurai Jack

    If any of you haven't been following the revived Samurai Jack series, what the heck is wrong with you? Go watch it! It's amazing.

    Last night the third episode of the new season aired, and the leader of the Daughters of Aku, Ashi, is voiced by. . . Tara Strong??

    Read More

    2 comments · 463 views
  • 388 weeks
    The Anonymous HiE

    The Anonymous HiE is the man with no name: that part of us with no identity other than itself, that which is not seen in the world, always in the distance — hidden, somewhere behind.

    He exists as himself, for himself, without attachment to conventional morality.

    He is not here to save the ponies of Equestria, or to progress their society.

    He has a different agenda.

    Read More

    1 comments · 542 views
Feb
22nd
2012

Hands, Hooves and Mouths · 3:45pm Feb 22nd, 2012

How does pony civilization get along without hands, anyhow? Some people find this question easy to brush off. It's a children's cartoon. It's magic. Don't worry about it.

For some of us it does matter and is a question worth taking seriously -- especially for those of us who come from a background in science fiction or furry fandom, or both. We've been schooled in the assumption that hands are what make homo sapiens a tool-using animal which can thereby develop intelligence and civilization. It's a prerequisite. We give our furry characters hands, not paws or hooves. Whenever a SF author sits down to invent a new alien race, one of the first questions is usually how many and what type of manipulative appendages they have.

Furthermore, the MLP:FiM TV show actually takes this question somewhat seriously. Even though we don't see pegasus and earth ponies struggling, we do get hints once in a while of how things can be awkward for them. (One of my favorite little examples is Sweetie Belle mumbling and then having to spit out her bowling bag before she can speak.) At other times, though, we see ponies holding objects in a hoof with no difficulty and no real explanation. How to resolve this?

Of course, we assume roughly a third of the population are unicorns, and they clearly don't have any need for hands. That still leaves the other two thirds -- and questions about how they lived before the three pony tribes were unified.

I've seen the issue approached in several different ways. I've seen stories that assume some kind of innate magic that allows all ponies to make their hooves act sticky or magnetic, so objects will adhere as if grasped. It may not allow them to do fine manipulation, but at least they can pick things up. I've also seen at least one story that assumes most ponies are issued magic horseshoes: thin and nearly invisible, they provide a controllable and magnet-like effect. However, one would presume these are made by unicorns and weren't easily available to pegasus and earth ponies before the tribes united, so that still leaves questions.

Maybe their front legs and hooves aren't constructed like those of a real-world pony. In fact, they can't be. We've seen plenty of examples of MLP ponies moving their legs and hooves around in ways that would be impossible for a real equine. So, they're double-jointed. However, the cartoon art is so stylized that legs and feet become only very vague shapes, and we're not seeing any detail of their anatomy at all. That's all left for us to speculate about. Maybe they can grasp objects behind their pastern, pinched between the heel and fetlock? Maybe the fetlock joint has a bump or protrusion that we don't see in the cartoon which can serve as a sort of crude thumb? Even then, however, we're still talking about merely crude grasping of objects within a limited size range. At best it would be more of a hook than a hand.

The ponies obviously use their mouths a great deal. Even the unicorns sometimes do this in favor of telekinetic magic -- not surprising, since they all (like Sweetie Belle) must have spent several years working with their mouths and hooves before growing into their magical abilities. We should remember that horses are adapted to crop grass for a living, so it's easy to assume that pony jaws and lips are much stronger and more dextrous than a human mouth. (I'm reminded of the Pierson's Puppeteers in Larry Niven's books. They used their mouths for everything. However, the Puppeteers had the advantage of having two heads! They also had pronounced bumps on their lips that acted as stubby mini-fingers.)

Before writing off a hand-less society as impossible, or even implausible, we need to consider a couple of factors. For one, we need to look at the history of what humans can accomplish without hands. Humans from time to time have either been born without hands or arms, or have lost their limbs in early childhood, and then proceeded to overcome all obstacles and learn to function at a very high level without them. From Carl Unthan, the celebrated armless violinist, to the more recent example of Jessica Cox getting her pilot's license, they prove what is possible -- even though quite difficult and requiring many long hours of practice.

The other thing we have to remember is that civilization in Pony World didn't necessarily arise in the same way that it did here in Human World. Have you noticed how many everyday objects they have that look like they were designed to be used by humans? (Lyra has noticed!) It's possible that they've inherited all or part of their civilization from another race, from a more humanoid species. This would mean ponies only have to keep things going, not build and invent everything themselves. We can assume, for example, that earth pony craftsmen (craftsponies??) already have plenty of well-developed tools to help them perform various manipulative tasks.

It's also possible that ponies had hands some time in the past. I've seen one epic story here on FIMFiction, Harmony's Wrath, which assumes exactly that: ponies were originally bipedal with hands instead of front hooves, and they were later cursed and forced onto all fours. So, once again, they only had to maintain the civilization that already existed, not invent one from scratch without the use of hands.

As for my own preference: I don't much care how a particular author chooses to address the lack-of-hands problem. It's all good; it's all interesting to me. I do like to see it addressed, though. I like a story that works this subject into those slice-of-life details that make a fictional world seem more real. To my way of thinking, that's much better than ignoring or glossing over the whole matter.

Report Zobeid · 245 views ·
Comments ( 5 )

Yay! I hope the history group will grow.

Other sentient species in Equestria could be a whole essay unto itself. Both Spike and the Diamond Dogs (or gnolls as I think of them) walk upright and have somewhat hand-like paws. Griffins are quadrupedal, but their front feet appear fairly dextrous -- and "Gilda Versus Knitting" is a must-read story on this subject. (Or even if you didn't care about this subject, it's one of the funniest stories on FIMFiction.)

It's worth remembering that MLP:G1 also had humans, gnomes (Moochick), goblins, lizard men, cat people (Katrina) and more. Any of those might someday turn up in FiM, who knows?

As for stringed instruments.... Octavia gives me fits. :pinkiecrazy:

I just now got around to looking at your story. It seems to be well done, and I'll track it -- even though all your assumptions about alicorns and their history are about as far from mine as you could get. :facehoof:

I seriously need to get back to work on the Minty story!

Login or register to comment