Today, Twilight was again up and at it bright and early. The show was scheduled for two past midday, which meant she had a morning to settle some affairs. Well, after one frantic Rainbow Dash would be calmed, that is. "Come on, Twi, we`re gonna be late! Your balloon`s too slow, we won`t make it to the show in time." - she insisted, tugging Twilight`s foreleg insistently. Theoretically, thought unicorn, Dash was right. Balloon was quite a slow method of movement, and depending on air currents, it might be indeed necessary to leave soon, if she were to reach Cloudsdale on the balloon. But she wasn`t planning on that.
"Calm down, Dash. I`m not taking balloon." - she responded firmly, shaking pegasus` grip from her foreleg. Dash didn`t think much of that, that could be seen on her face. "What do you mean, not taking balloon? How are you going to get to Cloudsdale? I may be the best flier, but even I won`t be able to carry you all the way there, Twi." - she retorted. Twilight let out a little snort - "Oh come on, Dash. Did you forget what we were testing, already? Trust me, we`ll be arriving to Cloudsdale in style."
"Oh... OH! Your new teleport thing! Yeah, yeah that sounds awesome... um, wait, are you sure? I mean, are you sure you can teleport me as well?" - it was obvious that pegasus needed additional reassurance. Twilight shook her head, chuckling - "Why not? I teleported with Pinkie without any troubles the day before yesterday, remember? Don`t be so nervous, Rainbow. I promise you, we will not be late for that show. Why don`t you read a book or something? I need to pick something up from Rarity."
"Nah. Next Daring Do book isn`t out yet, and I`ve already read the rest." - replied Rainbow Dash, her face looking pensive - "I wish they`d come out more often. It`s always such a bother to wait till the next one." Twilight paused at the doors - "Well, Dash, you know... Daring Do isn`t the only adventure series I have. Why don`t you try something else?" Dash`s face fell slightly. "I tried, Twi." - she offered with a sigh - "I tried reading "On Beyond Zebra", but it`s just plain weird. I thought it would be something about zebrican lands, and it`s about alphabet instead. Bleh."
Twilight facehoofed. "I knew I should`ve put that silly book in the vault." - she groused, rubbing the bridge of her nose with hoof - "I`m sorry, Dash. It`s a book I`ve pulled from the reality fissure, it`s likely written in another world and, frankly, is outright weird. I`m surprised it`s written in equestrian, actually." She turned around, and skimmed through the adventure section of the library. "Aha!" - exclaimed unicorn triumphantly as she pulled rather thick book from the shelf - "Adventures of Captain Blood. You`ll like this one, Dash. It`s about pirates." Pegasus made a face - "What, like "arr, landlubber" kind of pirates? Thanks, Twi, but I`m not a foal." Twilight snorted - "Yeah, you`re also not an egghead, Dash. Don`t worry, pirates in this book are not the playground variety."
"Oh, yeah? So what`s the backstory on this captain Blood then?" - retorted Rainbow Dash dubiously, as she stared at the hardcover book with distrust. Sighing, Twilight hoisted up her saddlebags and plopped them on her back, offering - "Why don`t you read to find out, Dash? I really need to get to Carousel Boutique before midday, you know." She trotted out, leaving the perplexed pegasus hovering over the book.
___
"Hello... Rarity? Rarity?" - Twilight poked around the boutique curiously. It was very strange - the door was open, the things were laid out, but no proprietor. The mystery was solved quickly, though, as she peeked into the kitchen. There, with a mouth full of cake and a deer-in-the-headlights expression was the Rarity herself. Twilight chuckled. "I`m sorry, Rarity. I`ll wait in the studio while you handle things here." - she offered, walking out again. A few seconds later, Rarity joined her, cheeks red from abundant blush. "I`m very sorry you had to see that, darling." - she offered, looking to the side.
"I saw nothing wrong, Rarity." - interjected Twilight, shaking her head, - "We all have our little guilty pleasures." Heaving a little sigh, Rarity nodded - "Well, thank you for discretion, darling. Why, if it were Rainbow Dash in your place, I simply would not be able to live it down ever." Lavender mare let out a quiet laugh - "You needn`t worry - she`s at the library reading. Speaking of Rainbow Dash - I must really hurry, Rarity. Is my dress ready yet?" Nodding, white mare pulled the chest open - "I think it is, darling, but we need to fit you one last time to make sure everything is fine and all the parts are in proper place."
As it turned out, everything was just fine. Normally, Twilight wouldn`t opt for a dress made after pegasi fashion, but for this particular outing, she needed an accommodation for wings. "If I may be so bold, darling, what`s the occasion?" - quipped Rarity as she considered the last-minute adjustments. Shrugging, Twilight offered - "I`ve promised Rainbow Dash I`ll go see Wonderbolts show with her later today."
"Oh, I gathered that much, dear, but why the dress? Sadly, Rainbow Dash`s one of those ponies who pay little attention to the fineries of life, so to say." - responded white unicorn as she stepped back to admire her work - "Speaking of whom, you and Dash, darling? So it is true that opposites attract?" Twilight shook her head - "Ah, sorry to disappoint you, Rarity, but I`m not dating Dash. It`s just a repayment, of sorts, for her help with all my experiments." Rarity`s face fell - "Oh. Oh dear. And here I was, assuming a torrid love affair between two of my best friends. How uncouth of me."
Purple mare giggled, as she turned around in front of mirror, checking out her new dress - "Well, me and Rainbow Dash? It`s certainly just about as plausible as me and you." That offhoof remark caught Rarity off the balance. "Come again, dear? Me and you? Why, how did that idea even came to be?" - she quipped, unsure of her feelings at the moment. Twilight shrugged, as she turned around to look at Rarity instead of mirror - "Oh, you know me. Always overanalysing everything."
Unsure, Rarity chewed on her lower lip - "Well, that is not to say that I`m not... I mean, it`s not like it`s anything out of..." She facehoofed - "Oh dear. Look at me, all confused and bothered by a simple joke. Hahah." Twilight raised her brow. "You know, maybe in your case I underanalysed." - she offered quietly - "You certainly seem to be perturbed by the notion." Rarity`s face took on a peculiar expression as she defended herself - "Oh, nonsense, darling. I`ve just been caught off-guard by that, hrm, notion. Nothing more to it."
Carefully, Twilight levitated her dress off and folded it into the saddlebag neatly, offering in the same time - "You don`t seem to be convinced of that yourself." She raised her hoof before Rarity could mount another objection - "I have an idea, Rarity. How about we have a date, just you and me? A little outing to Canterlot, perhaps?" She could tell her remark hit the spot, if the perplexed mix of emotions on Rarity`s face was of any indication. Very cautiously, fashionista offered - "Well... What do you have in mind?"
Twilight tapped her temple with hoof as she considered the options - "How about Friday? I was thinking Royal Arts Academy, then we can dine on the city and attend the Grand Opera in the evening? Ought to be fairly low-key this week, if I remember the schedules right." Rarity blinked, unsure - "Friday? Wouldn`t that mean we`ll have to leave on Thursday evening and spend at least one night there?" Magician chuckled - "Oh, no, nothing of a sort, Rarity. You know what was Dash helping me with? Long-range teleportation. At this moment, I can confidently claim I can teleport both of us to Canterlot and back within single day."
"Twilight, darling... I`m not sure..." - Rarity sighed and rubbed the base of her horn with hoof - "I mean, are you sure it`s a good idea?" Twilight merely shrugged, as she hoisted the bags on her back and opened the door. "I`m positive that it will be a learning experience for us both, if nothing else." - she offered confidently, shooting a smile at Rarity - "Other then that? Let`s say it`s a friends date, unless something changes during the course of it." Rarity nodded slowly. She wasn`t sure. Wasn`t sure at all.
___
"Dash? Rainbow Dash? Equestria to Dash, over!" - gradually, pegasus realised somepony`s yelling at her. She looked up from the book languidly, unable and unwilling to shake off the alternate reality of swashbuckling just yet, muttering irritably - "Yes?" Twilight chuckled. "Well, if you`d rather read then go see Wonderbolts..." Dash glanced on the book. Then out of the window. Then on the book again. That - that made Twilight blink in surprise. To think that Dash was seriously considering abandoning the show just to finish the book? Unreal.
"Uh, Dash? You can always finish the book tomorrow... unlike the show." - she reminded, trotting closer. That snapped pegasus out of her daze. "Oh! Oh, yeah, right." - Rainbow Dash was certainly taken by the book. Taken so much that it took her a couple minutes to start registering the surroundings. But once she did, she was treated to a sight of Twilight in a dress - and with a set of lavender moth wings fluttering over her back. "Twilight?..." - ultimately, Dash knew what it was about, but she needed verbal confirmation to let it sink in.
Unicorn shrugged - "I decided to dress up a bit. Want to do the same? You have five minutes to dash to your house and grab your dress, if you`re up to it. Oh, and I`ve already checked this book out for you, so you can take it home." Pegasus blinked. Now it was her turn to be surprised - "I... you what?... Twi, you`re scaring me, sometimes." Still, upon thinking about it a little, blue mare deduced the overall idea to be good - "I... yeah, alright." She grabbed the book and dashed out of the window, absentmindedly noting the midday sun.
Six and half minutes later, Rainbow Dash flew back in, sporting a short dress and looking vaguely uneasy. "How do I look, Twilight?" - she questioned in a rare show of self-consciousness. Unicorn looked over her, smirking - "I think handsome would be the right adjective to use." Initially, she planned so say pretty, but passed that adjective over in favor of more masculine-sounding to appeal to Dash`s tomboy persona. Apparently, that was the right call. "Ready to go, Dash?" - she offered, as she fluttered upstairs, testing her new wings.
"Twi?... Why are we going... upstairs... OH!" - Rainbow cut her question short as she realised they`ve walked out on the balcony. Spike was already there, looking into telescope of all things. "Hey, Rainbow Dash." - he offered jovially, - "Looking good today." Pegasus blushed faintly. Getting an offhand compliment from Spike cinched the situation - she was dressed up. Twilight tapped Spike on the shoulder - "Everything`s ready?" Dragon nodded, as he tapped the piece of parchment - "Here`s the numbers. I doublechecked and I can`t find anything wrong." Nodding, unicorn began her routine of aligning the teleport device. "Rainbow Dash? Come on closer." - she offered, peering through the ocular, - "Grab to the handle on my right side."
Indeed, she had updated her teleport cannon, now featuring a handy handle on the side for a passenger to grab on. Rainbow Dash did that much, putting her hoof on the curved brass securely, calling out - "Ready!" Unicorn tapped her hoof... And suddenly... Pegasus let go of the handle and looked around. They were suddenly on the outskirts of Cloudsdale, the area where the clouds tapered off into the blue nothingness. "...So that`s how the teleport feels." - she offered softly, taking in the sights. It`s been a while since she was in Cloudsdale. Soft giggle cut though her reverie, though.
"Now I can see why Rarity was so weird back then." - Twilight opined, as she fluttered over the cloud cautiously - "Having wings is something... else." She tapped the cloudfluff testingly with her hoof. It held, and she landed cautiously, folding the gossamer wings out of the way. "Lead on, Rainbow." - she offered, smiling at the pegasus - "We have an hour before the show. Any good places to eat nearby?"
___
Rainbow Dash didn`t know what went wrong. Or, more precisely, she could pinpoint every individual thing that went wrong, but she had no idea what possessed her to follow through with this course of mental destruction. So there she was, sharing a plate of escargot with Twilight Sparkle and laughing at mathematical jokes of all things. Pegasus wasn`t exactly as ignorant of the fine sciences as she`d like everyone to think - handling the weather required certain understanding of mathematical, physical and even chemical aspects, an understanding that came naturally for pegasi. Still, even though they were naturally apt with practical implementation, Rainbow Dash didn`t like to admit she was no slouch with theory either. Too many unpleasant memories from schooldays. So why were she so carefree with Twilight?
Maybe because Twilight could sympathise on the level none of the other friends could. Fluttershy, Celestia bless her, was never particularly apt with calculative part of being a pegasus. She tried to be, she really did, but her fancy lied in the poetry and romance and sappy books. Rainbow craved adventure and precision - something sorely lacking in her friends until Twilight came along. "...You know, Twilight, I never thought you of all ponies would go for griffon food." - she opined, nibbling on the stick of brined cheese. Unicorn shrugged, making her moth wings wave around goofily - "Oh, Canterlot Castle kitchen is rather eclectic. I actually had gone through the phase of "tasting everything" back when I was studying in the castle. Well, I meant everything in the sense of "every dish that castle kitchen can prepare readily". Escargot were among the few carnivorous dishes I actually liked. Speaking of escargot, how did you figure out you like them?"
"Gilda." - offered pegasus simply, as she finished her cheese stick - "We were pretty competitive back in school days, and sometimes, it was about food. I still don`t know what she saw in lobsters, but escargot... I guess it`s my guilty pleasure. Fluttershy would keel over if she`d ever found out." Twilight nodded thoughtfully as she took a sip of dandelion wine - "Oh, yes. Poor dear does take every living being so seriously - even the ones that exist for the express purpose of being eaten."
Feeling a little uneasy with that particular bit, Rainbow sought to change the topic of conversation. Thankfully, the opportunities were wide. "I just realised it`s been ages since I just watched Wonderbolts show." - she ventured, reaching for another cheese stick - "It seems like every time I watched them ever since I left school, I`m either taking part unwittingly or saving them from flailing unicorn or something else. Makes you wonder, doesn`t it?" Purple mare laughed softly - "Oh Dash, you have no idea. If anypony told me the two years ago I`m going to be a librarian in a rural burg, I`d laugh in their face. Life`s thrown us big old curveball with the Elements. Still... I wouldn`t trade it for anything."
"I hear ya, Twi." - offered pegasus, as she leaned on the table, - "I`d never imagine how things turned out... But I wouldn`t change a single one." That struck an odd note - not even the words itself, but the maudlin mood with which Rainbow Dash uttered them. "Not a single one?" - quipped unicorn, suddenly feeling a need to investigate - "Come on, Dash. Surely, there are some things you regret. I certainly do. That whole debacle with the Mr. Smartypants, for example. Or turning Scootaloo into chicken. I`d take back those things if I could."
Pegasus shook her head rather fiercely, as she pondered the response. "I don`t think I would, Twi." - she finally responded, unusually seriously for her usual brash attitude - "I mean sure, some of things I did sucked, and I felt awful for doing them afterwards, but... Y`know, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Every time I think about taking back something that sucked, I just have to ask myself - if I didn`t do that, if I didn`t learn that lesson back there and then, just how much worse I could`ve cocked up later?"
Twilight leaned around the table and patted Rainbow`s foreleg - "It`s about Gilda again, isn`t it?" She took a shot in the dark with this guess - an educated shot and educated guess, granted, but... Pegasus let out a soft sigh. "Yeah. I think. Too many old memories around here." - she offered, somewhat bitterly, but without malice - "The streets, the food, the show..." Unicorn quirked her brow - "You miss her, don`t you?"
Rainbow Dash let out a tired chuckle - "I`d say yes, but that would be a lie. No, I don`t miss Gilda. If anything, I resent her for being whom I thought I wanted to be. And in the same time, I feel sorry for making her think I`m something I wasn`t. Ain`t self-reflection grand, Twilight?" Unicorn shook her head - 'That`s just salt talking, not you." She levitated a glass of mineral water to pegasus - "Here, drink up. That`ll clear off your funk." Pegasus downed the glass without looking, her face pensive and determined in the same time.
"You know, Twilight? I used to be an egghead." - she offered suddenly, glancing around, - "And because of that, school sucked. Well, not the school itself, but everypony else who went to school with me. Except for Fluttershy, that is. But Fluttershy just wasn`t into the same kind of thing I was." Purple mare nodded, her face pensive as well when she continued - "And then Gilda came along, and she was into the stuff you liked... but she was cooler then you. So you tried to act like she does. Right?"
Blue mare sighed again - "Bingo. The scary thing? It worked." She shook her head and cracked a smile - "But you see, I learned something from it. I learned I can be arrogant without being a jerk." Twilight could tell the joke was just a tiny bit forced, but she run with it. "That`s the spirit, Dash." - she offered, smiling back - "Everything`s a learning experience, if nothing else. Though some experiences are better then other, I`m guessing." Now the smile was much more genuine. "Oh, yeah, I`d say. Finding out you like escargot is one heck of a learning experience." - opined Dash with a chuckle.
Twilight made a bit of face, as she considered the empty plate - "I`d love to learn more about that one, but too much of exotic treat is never a good thing." Rainbow let out a short barking laugh - "You know, that`s exactly the kind of thing I`m thinking about Gilda right now. Too much of her wasn`t a good thing for me." Sipping her wine daintily, Twilight ventured - "I wonder why nopony realised you were dating before. In retrospect, it`s blindingly obvious."
Dash`s face scrunched momentarily, and Twilight realised she hit the nerve. Hard. "We weren`t." - Rainbow Dash said fiercely, - "I was never interested in her in that way." Unicorn nibbled on her lower lip thoughtfully. That.. was interesting, to say the least. "Well... From what I do remember of her, she acted like you two used to date and then broke up." - she offered at last, - "I`m sorry if I`ve jumped to conclusions, but it`s really rather obvious she was jealous about you."
"Really? I never catch on to that stuff." - responded pegasus, looking aside - "Makes sense, though. I wondered why she suddenly cranked up bitching to eleven." Very... interesting. Twilight picked up her glass and took another sip, mulling over her options. That being Rainbow Dash, probably the best course of action would be just to ask things straight... and be ready to grab in case she bolts. "You mean you never realised? Come on, Dash, surely the topic had came up during your school days." - she ventured, smiling at pegasus.
"Sure did. About Gilda, Fluttershy and just about any other mare I`ve ever walked past. So I kind of stopped listening to that years ago." - proffered pegasus, as she pushed away from the table slightly, - "Twi, I`m full. Can we take a walk or something? I need some fresh air." She waved to the waiter, but he merely flashed a smile back. "Ugh. What`s wrong with him? Can`t he see I`m ready to pay the bill?" - she groused. Twilight chuckled - "Actually, I already paid when you were at the powder room." She tipped the glass, draining the rest of dandelion wine and stood up - "So, ready when you are, Dash."
Trotting out after unicorn, Dash couldn`t hold back the indignant - "Now why`d you do that?" Twilight just shrugged, looking up and down the street - "Which way..? Oh, and you paid for the meal before the show, remember? So it`s only fair." Pegasus didn`t have the good objection to that, so she resorted to incoherent grunt instead.
___
"Ah, so much better! This, Twi, is what life really is. No hastle, no bustle, no emo stuff... Just clouds, wind and you." - Rainbow Dash proclaimed as she flopped languidly on the small cloud. Twilight settled next to her gingerly, still not quite trusting in the supportive capacities of the fluff barely big enough to hold two of them. They were lazily floating away from Cloudsdale, in the general direction of Ponyville. "I can certainly see the appeal." - offered Twilight cautiously, - "Had fun, Rainbow? I sure did."
Pegasus looked up lazily. "Yes. I had lots of fun." - she offered, - "But right now... Can you finally tell me what are you buttering me up for?" Twilight smirked - "Caught me, huh? So what gave me out?" Rainbow shrugged - "Paying for the dinner, mostly. Not even you would treat me to Aile De L`or on the lark. Too.. what`s the word?... formal, I guess." Unicorn nodded, rolling to her side a little as she let her wings splay on the cool cloudfluff. "I suppose. Well, to be honest, I wanted the skinny on you and Gilda. I mean, it`s rather obvious she had some romantic aspirations... And just as obviously, you didn`t reciprocate that much." - she offered after a moment of silence.
For a while, Dash just lounged silently. Then she sighed - "Ask something easier, Twi. I really have no idea what`s the deal with featherbrain. I know there`s been rumors about us dating, but as I said, there are rumors about me and just about every mare in the town. So I never paid much attention to it. Gilda never brought that up with me, though. So even if she wanted to date, she sure kept mum about it." Twilight nodded thoughtfully - "I take it you didn`t want to date Gilda, did you?"
Rainbow shook her head slightly. "No, not really." - she responded after another short silence - "To be honest, I don`t even know where all the rumors come from. It`s not like there`s a writing on my forehead saying "fillyfooler", now is there?" Twilight frowned - "Something`s wrong with being fillyfooler?" That certainly alerted pegasus a little - "Gah, no. I mean, if somepony figures out they are, well power to them and all that jazz. What I don`t get is why everypony thinks I`m one."
"Well... you are a shoe-in for a butch stereotype, Dash." - responded Twilight thoughtfully, - "Tomboyish, brash and loyal. Pretty much the staple archetype. Are you telling me that you, in fact, like stallions?" Judging by Rainbow`s grimace, that wasn`t it either - "That`s the thing. I have no bloody idea." How very curious. And peculiar. Her interest peaked, making Twilight roll over again so she could face Rainbow Dash directly - "Aha, so that`s how things are, Dash? You honestly never had interest in anypony?"
Pegasus groaned - "Yeah, pretty much. I just don`t get it, Twilight. Why is everypony so crazy about this dating stuff?" Twilight looked on the mare before her. Clueless Rainbow Dash was adorkable. Acting on an impulse, she pulled forward, her face next to Dash`s. "Let`s see if I can demonstrate." - she breathed into blue ear, leaning closer and letting her lips brush against Rainbow`s. She felt the rush of intimacy pass through her body, exciting her. But... something was amiss.
"Twi? Why did you do that?" - asked pegasus quietly, as she pulled back from her friend. Twilight`s eyebrow quirked - "Well, that is the most demonstrable part of dating. The idea of intimacy is exciting." She couldn`t figure out the peculiar expression on Rainbow`s face, though. "Exciting, huh?" - she repeated, throwing her head back - "I`m sorry, Twilight, but I don`t feel anything. Exciting, I mean." Unicorn pulled back, nibbling on her lip as she mulled over the response.
"I guess that proves in black and white you`re not interested in mares, Rainbow." - she offered finally, - "If you were, you`d have some kind of reaction." Pegasus responded with a groan. "That`s the bloody thing. I don`t feel anything about stallions either." - she responded, sitting up, - "I tried. What is this excitement everyone`s talking about?" "Well... your heartbeat goes a bit faster, you feel warm, you get that feeling of anticipation..." - offered lavender mare as she pondered the situation - "Maybe you`re just asexual, Dash?"
"Asexual?... What do you mean, asexual? As in, neither a mare nor a stallion or what?" - Rainbow Dash inquired warily, - "I`m pretty certain I am a mare, Twi." Unicorn laughed a little - "Oh, no, not that. Asexual ponies are the kind of ponies who don`t date because they don`t feel attracted to anypony. Come to think of it, asexual ponies usually have some kind of overarching life goal, too. Kind of like you and your love of flying. Do you get excited when you`re flying your tricks, Dash? Do you feel the heartbeat, the warmth, the anticipation?"
For a few seconds, Rainbow`s face was perfectly still as she mulled things over. "...Huh. You know, Twi, now that you mention it... Yes, I do get excited about flying. So what does that mean?" - she offered slowly, - "It`s not like I need to see doctor about it or something, now is it?" Twilight rolled her eyes a bit and giggled - "No, no, it`s perfectly normal to be asexual, Dash. A lot of ponies are like that, actually. I have a couple of books about it in back in the library, you can check them out later."
"Huh. So you don`t think something is wrong with me, then? It`s OK if I just... don`t want to?" - pegasus drawled as she struggled to wrap her mind around the concept. She felt surprised about how well it fit her situation. "Wait a second. Twi, why did you want to know in the first place?" - she demanded suddenly, fixing unicorn with intense stare. "...Well... To be honest, I considered asking you out." - replied unicorn sheepishly, - "But it`s alright, we`ve already figured out you`re not interested." Rainbow`s hoof connected to her forehead with a loud clap. "Twilight..." - she groaned in disappointment.
"Dash. It`s OK, really. To be honest, I`m also quite clueless about dating." - implored Twilight - "Please don`t be mad." Rainbow slammed her hoof into the cloud - "Why me, Twilight? Because I oh so "obviously" dig mares, is that it?" Unicorn shook her head slowly. "Actually, you`re not the first." - she replied, - "I`ve been asking Applejack out yesterday. She said no, by the way." And with that, Rainbow`s irritation was immediately replaced with utter astonishment.
"You... and AJ? Bwahah!... Oh, dear, I wish she`d say yes. You two, dating? Would be hilarious." - she offered at last. Twilight took the response as a sign of mollification. "I`m just trying to figure out dating." - she offered to bemused pegasus, - "Unlike you, I do get excited about it... but I haven`t figured out whom I can date just yet. That`s what I`ve been trying to do." "Sooo... you`re a fillyfooler then?" - inquired pegasus cheekily.
"...Maybe. Or bisexual, at the very least." - answered Twilight after a few moments of thinking, - "I can certainly get excited about a mare." Rainbow nudged her playfully with the hoof - "I`m cool with that... so long as it`s not me you`re excited about. Because that would get weird." Lavender mare shook her head - "After today? I`m pretty certain I want to be just friends, Dash. Pretty certain indeed."
1025462 As a supporter of AJ/Twi, I approve of AJ thinking looooong and hard about Twi's proposal.
Though I still wouldn't object to some Twilestia (my favourite pairing) if you feel like heading in that direction.
And that story you're hinting at wouldn't be 'Romance Reports' by SleeplessBrony, would it?
1053426
I don`t think so.... Hrm, NO, most definitely not that one.
As for Twilight/AJ, I have some ideas on backburner, but... not going to promise anything. I have tons of ideas, but most of them never make it past idea stage, sadly.
As for Celestia?... I am rather cautious about invoking her - Buddha paradox tends to be particularly unforgiving in case of good-natured deities.
1053510
There might be more torque as the story unfolds. Maybe. Not sure yet.
1053739 Shame.
No? Guess I'll have to keep guessing then. On the AJ bit, I'll just keep hoping.
Perhaps. Though as an Immortal, Twilight's relatively young age would likely be immaterial to her.
1053795
I question not the age difference, but Celestia`s capability to actually be in love. In it`s most basic form, love is a need, and divinity is characterized by waning needs - truly omnipotent being has no needs whatsoever, not even the need to exist.
1053823 Ah, I see.
I see your point, though I'd have to respectfully disagree. In my opinion, just my own naturally, I'd say that Celestia has time and again demonstrated her love for Twilight (romantic or otherwise) through her actions.
I'd say that Celestia likely delays, or even outright defies the 'emotional numbing' of divinity through her connections to those closest to her. Luna, Twilight, Philomena, etc. Though, as I said before, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to poke holes in your story if that's the way you wish to take it.
1053885
Oh, I don`t doubt that Celestia can make sure Twilight feels loved. The question is if Celestia herself has any reason to escalate this relationship. As things stand, it`s entirely up to Celestia to decide if she should forever be a mother figure to Twilight or if she wants to amend that into romance. Try as I might, I can`t see why Celestia would want to go through with that change.
I`ve also considered the vice-versa - Twilight developing a sharply romantic feeling towards Celestia. That is plausible enough, and I can see Celestia deciding to humor Twilight Sparkle by spending the lifetime of aforementioned Twilight as her lover. The problem is that sooner or later Twilight would figure that out.
Lastly, I`ve tried to picture Celestia as a being given to passions enough to actually be capable of falling in love - the consequences of such were so awful that I`ve erased the file and solemnly sworn not to attempt that again.
1053938 Then I respect your opinion.
Our views on this matter will likely never change, but I respect how much time and thought you've obviously put into this particular matter.
On the subject of your aborted Twilestia attempts, I suspect that perhaps the idea just doesn't seem plausible to you in any way? If ever I try to write anything I really can't bring myself to believe in, it almost inevitably ends poorly.... Usually with myself looking like an idiot in the process.
1053993
I do believe that romance is a concept that requires equality, and as hard as I tried, I failed to conceive any arrangement that would permit for Celestia and Twilight to be on equal footing.
Status quo posits Celestia as Twilight`s mentor very firmly, and with it in effect, nothing worthwhile could be garnered.
Considering the possibility that Celestia might be actually not too far from Twilight - that was the abortive attempt I`ve erased. It was pretty much a "no, it`s not possible, she`d a`splode the universe long before now if she were that fallible" case.
I`ve tried to envision vice-versa scenario - where Twilight is elevated to be on equal footing with Celestia. However, even if Twilight were suddenly an alicorn, it would take a couple hundred years for her to approach the level on which Celestia operates daily - it is indeed necessary to see several generations be born and die to actually grasp the concept of reality`s frailty.
I do have some notes on rather dark cases of Twilight gambling with powers way beyond what Celestia would deem safe for her - as a logical consequence of lovehate she develops from understanding Celestia could never reciprocate the simple romance as it were. I`d leave those ideas dormant for a while, tho. Dark matter is best when it`s aged properly.
HAHAHA! Twi's confidence can give Iron will"s a real run for its money.
1055647
Slightly different things. Iron Will`s confidence trainings were all about "my way or highway" kind of attitude.
Twilight`s supposed more to be "I fear not the experiment" kind of confidence.
Spike is going to feel so betrayed come Friday.
1058139
Maybe not. Clever Twilight is clever.
___
As for "thinking you`re responsible", it`s a very BAD sigh for a would-be suitor. Heard the term "friendzone"? The way things are going, Spike`s hurtling in that direction so fast it hurts to even look at it.
1058805 That's actually a popular misplaced belief. For a long term relationship, the friendzone is a great place to start. It gives you a chance to actually learn about her, her interest, and her friends. It gives you the opportunity to show off your strong points and actions without making it seem like your just trying to just get in her bed. The key is being able to up the ante. The "friendzone" persona most people think of involves the guy (or girl) never really making romantic gestures. Never taking the leap, because they end up fearing it'll ruin the friendship. Spike make's romantic gestures, and Rarity at least seems attentive to them.
Most people just can't handle the scenario well.
1058919
My personal experience suggests otherwise.
If designated "male" enters the friendzone, s/he already provides all the benefits of dating without asking anything in return just yet. This is a glaring mistake - designated "female" will NOT be happy about any notions about paying the piper. On the contrary, s/he will stalwartly resist any and all attempts to amend the situation. Any attempts to turn the situation into relationship will be met with sabotage.
In the end, it comes to the good old law of supply and demand. You have to posit some kind of reasonable demand for your supply - that is the basis of mutual effort. If you present your supply at no charge, it`d damn well better be absolutely unique and necessary - otherwise, you will be expected to continue provide at no charge and any attempts to receive even the nominal fee will cause a situation where any supply, even at most exorbitant demands will be taken over yours, as a way of punishing you for attempting to "cheat in" a fee that wasn`t there before.
1059024See now I watched my best buddy in High School becomes friends with arguably the prettiest, smartest, and most talented (well the combination of the three at least) girl in the school. She turned guys down all the damn time. Never even seen her date before. And he spends about two years as her friend, doing little things for her and making his interest shown without making it glaring. Out of nowhere he ignores her for a few days, at which point I'm having a fling with her best friend cause between the two of them we spent time together. Suddenly without him there all she can think about his how much she misses him, as I heard from her mouth and her best friends. He comes back and shes fawning over him, my fucking minds been blown. Not even a week later and their going out on there first date. They've lasted three years now, past graduation. So maybe it's the girl, or maybe it's how it's played, but it does work.
1059087
Missed important details here. As in, being capable of walking away. That capacity is the crux of what decides if it`s friendzone or not. Another important note is "never dated anyone". Chances are that they were quietly dating throughout the two years and the whole dramatic "first date" was just a public reveal.
A little example of bone fide issue.
1059320 Trust me on this one, I've know the guy for years. He ain't the best poker player if you catch my drift.
1059347
Trust you? Hah. Don`t make me laugh. Trusting an optimist is a prime way of getting screwed over.
No, it`s out of question, I know you not - and it`s equally likely that it`s not your friend who`s transparent, but you who`s not a good judge of character.
___
Also, we`re getting noticeably sidetracked by this topic - especially so by personal anecdotes. For future reference - yes, friendzoning can be broken, but not without effort. When I refer to friendzone, I`m talking about a case of psychological abuse, not "touching friendship between man and woman".
1060795 I'm a pessimist, but I won't argue with results.
I'd probably be a tad insulated, if I actually gave a damn
Yes we did. My main point was that she's not treating him like a little kid.
1061961
Well, then we have no argument. I`m not saying that friendzone is unbreakable - merely that it`s common and rather... unpleasant, both to witness and to break.
1062259 Fair enough. To be fair, that's what Twilight is trying to do in every case here. Not very successfully either. Of course, her decision to attempt to break into a relationship is kind of random, as in, she didn't really have strong romantic feelings for them in the first place.
Another fascinating chapter. Your unique views of the other members of the cast are interesting. Especially asexual Dash. I had an asexual best female friend and now that I think about it, she acted a little like Dash. And I guess that means Gilda is free to date other ponies. I hear Trixie is single.
1062351
Not even close. For a decisive friendzoning, the one-sided attraction HAS to be obvious to both parties involved. As things stand with Mane 6, none of them had exhibited any obvious sign of interest in each other so far, so Twilight`s blindsiding them one by one. Sooner or later they will start comparing notes, however - it`s pretty certain Rarity would know the score on Friday, and I`m not even sure about Saturday.
1062515
It`s very... common trend to see Dash as the libertine of the group - her personality does suggest she`d be the one to get into sex early, if the notion occurred to her. However... I like to think of other possibilities. It seems plausible to me that Rainbow Dash might have no sexual drive to speak of - she sublimates through the flight, it`s her only real passion. She is often thinking about Sonic Rainbooms, and it`s not too farfetched to think that this is what replaces orgasm for her - the breach into different aspect of physics, careening on the jagged edge of rainbow. Certainly sounds like a great rush feeling to me.
1062575 That's what I was saying.
1062755
No, you weren`t.
This tidbit is patently false.
It also occurs to me that you somehow lump friendzone and friendship together. Which is absolutely horrible thing to do. I don`t know how to state it any clearer - friendzone is a case of ABUSE. Abuse, ok? None of that happens between Mane 6, but it`s one of the possible outcomes of Spike/Rarity, because both of them are actively encouraging the movement in that direction.
1062799 Well, I was referring to the advancement of friendship, so in a sense you'd be right there, into romance. However, I did make it clear that this progression was being attempted without previous romantic interest or tendencies. Which was how I was stating, it wasn't a friendzone situation. And while I personally would like Spike and Rarity to happen, I do agree Spike could end up screwing himself, or Rarity could screw him, and not in the fun way. Still, call me a romantic, but I'd like to see him prevail.
1062876
Not gonna happen without some drastic changes. Most of all, in Spike. It`s easy enough to amend Rarity`s fancy to include adolescent dragons in, but Spike? He`s a problem. Puppy crush is not a good start for a meaningful relationship - which means that even if Rarity is amenable to the idea of being with dragon, Spike has a LOT to learn and to change about himself before it might be considered a plausible connection.
For future reference on positive outcome, peruse Like Fine Wine - it contains one of the most plausible cases of such.
1063016 It's a great fic, favorite personal clop fic of all time, but it's also a pretty shitty overall situation. In the end Spike won the day, but it's quite late in her life. Sleepless did a wonderful job expressing the bitter-sweetness of the end. Spike's ties as Twilight's personal bodyguard is going to keep them apart even further.
Spike is advancing in maturity in the show. His actions in the Owlicious episode is a complete opposite to Dragon Quest. Secret of my Excess is another good perspective point, he gives Rarity the Fire Ruby of his own volition (the story board writers actually explained at one point that Rarity's "flirting" was just a dramatization by Spike). While this falls under your giving freely point, Spike does receive a reward of affection. Equally important in the episode is when Spike is absolutely crestfallen over his transformation. Rarity is the only one who seems to notice, and instead of leaving him to wallow as she very well could of (let's face it Spike wouldn't have changed his feelings for her. In fact, with the way he felt, he wouldn't of even blamed her, and therefore, your continuously getting without receiving would come into play), she takes it upon her self to cheer him up and again kisses his cheek. In Dragon Quest, Rarity flips out when Spike declares that he's leaving, commanding Rainbow Dash to, "Quick do something, stop him before it's to late." Now this behavior might be expected from Spike if Rarity was leaving for a unspecified amount of time, but not Rarity, not in your belief that Spike is falling quickly down the slope of friend-zone abuse. Sure you could argue she just wants her wiping boy, but Rarity is the strong dependent women type. She doesn't rely on Spike. It could be assumed that the only reason she gave in so quickly to him leaving is because she knew they were going to fall them, being the first to bring it up. Let's face it, there's no way a perfectly calm and in her right mind Rarity would think that costume was one of her, "finer creations".
So while you see their chances going down, I see them going up.
1063167
And this is why you can`t trust an optimist.
OK, the situation with Fire Ruby? It`s one of the early alarms for friendzone.
Spike DID mention the gem was artificial - he was aging it. Naturally occurring gems have the aging of centuries, they would not benefit from a few more months. It means that Rarity merely had to be patient - Spike could`ve grown her another Fire Ruby within a few months. Instead, she cajoles the gem out of Spike, being fully aware he was greatly looking forward to eating it (his birthday present to himself, mind). Normally, this would be a no-go situation. Rarity had nothing to do with gem to begin with, and Spike has good reasons to anticipate this little snack. However, Rarity values gem more then she values Spike, per ce, and so she obtains gem without considering that he`s giving up his birthday present. The bite is? Even if she were to have a change of heart and give the ruby back, Spike would be unable to eat it now - he`d insist Rarity keep it. In the end, as you could see, the question of returning the gem does not even come up. Instead, Spike is treated to a few trite and banal truisms. Not an adequate trade, if you ask me.
The RIGHT thing, the loving thing for Rarity to do would be to shut the ***k up and be quiet until the birthday is over, and then talk to Spike about growing more Fire Rubies. It`s bloody obvious he WOULD give it up if Rarity were to express even a passing interest in having it - and the only decent thing to do in that situation for her would be to feign disinterest until he`d have his treat.
As for Rarity flipping out at the notion of Spike leaving in "Dragon Quest"? You just said it yourself. He`s convenient to keep around, simply because he is eager to help and does not require to be compensated for it. Think about it - if there was anything decent to speak of, Rarity would`ve had MUCH more tangible arguments for Spike staying then calling on Rainbow Dash. She gives up on this simply because appearing too interested hurts this simple and efficient arrangement - her game is to manipulate Spike into coming back, not beg him into doing that much. A token show of concern is all that it takes - the glaringly obvious fact that Spike has NO CLUE about how to be a dragon will make do of the rest. Migratory species always have a healthy dose of xenophobia in the group - helps to weed out the undesirable castaways of other groups. It was pretty much predestined that Spike would not be able to fit into the group with his views developed in pony society.
1063296
Pessimist. Just because I don't ignore the facts, doesn't make me a optimist. Humans are the bane of existence, and I could honestly watch this world burn to the ground. Hell, a bag of caramel popcorn, and it'd be a damn good day in my book.
Except she didn't cajole the Fire Ruby out of him. See I back my points with actual facts. Such as the already mentioned, Rarity's flirting was a dramatization by Spike as stated by actual story board writers for the show. You are making an assumption that he can just grow a fire ruby. Rarity said it was extremely rare, so however there grown, it can't be that easy. If it was, Spike would just start growing a new one every month. She tells Spike to enjoy it and that she hopes it taste and beautiful as it looks. She wants the damn thing, and it's taking everything in her not to just ask for it. She bites her leg for example, neither ladylike or a happy feeling. And you said it yourself, she didn't have to do a damn thing for him. Still, she did anyways.
Rarity is strong and dependent. She managed the boutique and her life before Spike, and she does so when he's randomly gone, usually on royal business. She doesn't need him to continue her every day life.
Garrable does the opposite of weed Spike out. He offers Spike the opportunity to join them. He has to prove his worth, something you would expect in any group really, and he does. It's only when confronted with a higher moral choice that Spike distances himself from the dragons. Spike succeed in the challenges to a point. He took the hill, he won a tail wrestling match, and he did the lava dive. Garrable could of easily told Spike to fuck off. Even more so when he found out about the ponies, but he didn't. In fact, until Garrable's authority was directly questioned, he was be pretty nice to Spike. He had to maintain an air of leadership to the other dragons, but he gave Spike multiple opportunities to prove himself. Had Spike skipped out on the raid as he had intended, he very easily may have made it through the Great Dragon Migration.
I get that you seem to have some kind of bad personal experience with the matter, and that sucks. But you need to back your opinions with facts or at least a stronger foundation. I may be a bit of a optimistic pessimist, but I follow up everything I say with strong points.
1063350
Spike himself is extremely rare. There`s a reason why Rarity wants his help with gems so often, and it`s not just digging capabilities. Nah, my reasoning is solid here. If a ruby needed only months of aging it was made very recently - and Spike knows how to make it. It might be not the easiest thing to make, sure, but it`s a feasible endeavor. Maybe it`s making is a process that requires a dragon to make it happen. Maybe Fire Ruby is simply a plain old ruby carefully tempered with dragonfire. That does not matter much. What DOES matter is that Spike made one as a birthday snack for himself. It means he can do it again - and extreme rarity of this gem WILL justify the few months of wait. If you THINK about it, Rarity does have favors to offer that will be as important to Spike as his birthday.
No, the decent thing for her to do would be to just keep quiet after she bites her hoof. But no, she goes and expresses her interest, knowing full well that Spike will feel obligated to give the gem to her.
___
Of course Rarity does not need Spike. Just like I don`t need my silver pocket watch. But it`s nifty and nice and convenient, and therefore I have it. And therefore, Rarity will do a reasonable amount of effort to keep Spike near - not because she absolutely needs his assistance to continue her daily life, but because he`s a convenience.
___
As for dragons, it`s, again, painfully obvious. Spike proves nothing - his refusal to break phoenix egg shows that he is not interested in being a part of this particular group. For reference - this is a standard practice. Demand of a potential joinee to perform a crime. A serious crime. A crime that WILL earn the enmity of the other groups. A murder is a popular choice. If they go through with it, they will be loyal to the group - both for the want of joining and for the fear of retribution after the crime is done.
In the end, that was one real question that defined if Spike could be a part of dragon migration or not. Everything before that? It was an advertisement, a show of merriment to hedge Spike`s desire to join. Don`t misunderstand my words - dragons would gladly take on another dragon who would be loyal to their cause, their traditions and their style of life. But they obviously would want nothing with a dragon who is essentially a pony.
1063445 Gems in Equestria are... well we just don't know how the fuck they work honestly. My suspicion is that Spike found a Fire Ruby and then aged it to perfection by some kinds of means. Something environmental or magical perhaps. This would explain the reason he doesn't have a new Fire Ruby to eat every month, or why he doesn't just grow Rarity her gems instead of digging for them.
I also suspect that Spike intended to give it to Rarity from the get go, naturally heart shaped gems seem unlikely, even in a magical land like Equestria. I would be so inclined as to say that Spike got nervous and changed his mind, or simply didn't wish to admit it in front of Twilight. Rarity coming at that moment offered him a perfect nonchalant way of giving it to her. Now that is merely speculation, of course, and not a true stance in the quite enjoyable back and forth me and you are having. Something to consider all the same.
But if she has to put forth effort to keep him, it's no longer a free ride. That was your point yes, as long as a guy gives a girl whatever she wants and she has to give nothing in return the guy is friend-zoned abused?
Murder isn't a popular choice. Not even in most crime syndicates, although the Triad is a bit more bloodthirsty. Maybe in the upper tiers of service it would be more common. Although I do agree, it's the secret that keep such things working. The dragons are closer to a fraternity. A little hazing and proving yourself, and bam your in the club. And yes, Spike furthers himself from the group in that moment.
1063516
You`re ascribing too much to Spike. Heart-shaped crystals are rather common around the magical lands, they`re called Health Powerup usually. His comment about aging is VERY connected to the taste of thing, which means that he DID intend to eat it from the get-go. Rarity`s needs with the gem require no aging to speak of, and if it took several months, Spike had plenty of time to present it. No, Spike genuinely meant to eat it, he had no intention to do anything else with the gem. It was just an exotic treat, nothing else.
N.B. - I never said that friendzoning requires "absolutely nothing"... Sigh, I guess I`d better explain on examples. Let`s take Spike and Rarity for an example. Spike clearly wants the romance. He is bending over backwards for Rarity, often enough completely neglecting his own interests and surrendering his own resources and time for Rarity`s benefit. He does that in hopes that one day, Rarity will reciprocate, accepting him as an equal partner of life, with all that it entails - access to cohabitation, mutual support, fidelity, sex.
On the flip side is Rarity, who is as far as things stand, rather disinterested in actually allowing this to become romance. Logically thinking, it`s most beneficial for her to actually keep this "relationship" exactly where it is - at the stage where Spike`s working for perspectives. It`s also in her best interests to keep his interest stoked just well enough to keep him at it, but in the same time she is also interested in putting enough of distance between them to assure he does not get the footing to actually ask her for any of the benefits he`s working towards to.
This arrangement allows her to get away with pretty much anything - up to and including going to Gala for the sole purpose of wooing and marrying a Prince, and when that falls through? Nothing about her relationship with Spike changes. This is very alarming, because... Well, frankly, because if I were Spike, I`d start looking for greener pastures immediately after Gala. After such an affront, one has to ask himself - "Dude, the woman I love just tried to marry someone else. Do I really want to continue loving her, or it`s already glaringly obvious she does not give a toss?"
___
I was thinking of more primitive cultures when I cited murder as common "rite of entrance". Back in times where tribes were tribes and when variety of crimes was really limited. Dragons seem to be very primitive kind of creatures, after all.
1063603 If he can just grow them easily, it's not exotic. The ageing most likely would improve the carat (mass) and/or size of the gem.
Yes, you did.
Um... marry? She dreamed they might get married sure, but she didn't propose to the guy right then and there, nor did she intend to. And it all very much so went to hell anyways. I wanna bang {insert famous actress or singer here} doesn't mean its happening.
Not true. In fact, this could be see as the pivotal point. Prince Blueblood has crushed her dreams in a sense and by comparison, made Spike look to be quite chivalrous. Suddenly, he's not just Spike anymore, he's her/my Spikey-Wikey. She actually making a claim to him. Now most people would be like, "gasp! Owning people is wrong." but as a culture we do it all the time. The pet name is a form of affection, usually annoying as hell mind you, but Spike doesn't mind. This is a totally unnecessary step in your abuse strategy, he wouldn't feel any less for her if she continued to call him Spike. She's also more attentive to Spike. After A Dog and Pony Show, Rarity didn't even recognize Spike for rushing in to save her. However, at the end of Secret of My Excess, she does credit Spike for stopping himself. She could of just told him it'd be okay and it wasn't his fault mind you. Instead, she tells him she's proud of him and kisses his cheek. In your friend-zone abuse strategy, he ruined her boutique, and she would of made him make it up to her. Wouldn't of been to hard really, he already felt horribly guilty, and he's in love with her. The fear of losing her would of drove him to do it.
I wouldn't say primitive, proud seems more likely. There's a certain level of tradition and expectation. Full sapient ability as well as sentient.
1063771
I didn`t say easily. My point was that he can make another, and Rarity DOES have assets in her disposal that would be just as much of insensitive to Spike to produce the gem as his birthday was, if not moreso.
And no, I didn`t. Note the exact wording - "without asking for anything in return". It does not mean that a careful manipulator is barred from stoking the prey`s infatuation little by little to keep them leashed securely.
___
As for banging the celebrity? Sure, when the girl you fancy says "OMG, I wanna do XXX YYY!" sitting in front of TV watching movie - it`s nothing really important to care about. But damnit, when said girl puts on her finest dress and goes off to some kind of Gala with "XXX YYY`s gonna be there, and I`m totally going to bang them!" - that is a cause for MUCH alarm indeed.
Think about it - if Blueblood didn`t bend over backwards driving Rarity away, she had rather good chances of getting into an affair with prince at the Gala.
And that`s not laying a claim - that`s using Spike as a handkerchief. Both to dry up her disappointment and to reaffirm the notion that she is THE WOMAN and Blueblood is just too stupid to realize. The sad thing is, Blueblood has real tangible chances in this. If he were to saunter in, and say something to the effect of - "Lady Rarity, I do apologize for the Gala, I`ve been under a constant stress because of unknown saboteurs doing their best to ruin it... Which, sadly, happened despite all my worrying and efforts to prevent it. Please allow me to make it up for you, I know a cosy restaurant nearby. Their prench cuisine is tres magnifique!", Rarity would`ve likely swooned, forgave him for everything and merrily skipped out, blowing kisses to Spikey-Wikey as she goes.
As for the end of "Secret of my Excess"? Don`t be ridiculous. She was doing damage control. Making Spike feel more guilty then would`ve ripped him out of Ponyville. He`d bend over backwards to repay damages caused, then leave the town. Not a good idea, for obvious reasons.
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As for dragons, YES, they are primitive. They`re migratory, for crying out loud! Civilization advances do not support migration well. Pretty much all migrant nations and tribes in history were barbarians, with little if any contributions to the culture or science. Their true advancement begins when they, either by necessity or by conquest, settle down and form cities.
1063935
That was the important line there. And prey and predator? What is this a movie or sitcom made in the 90's?
I'm probably gonna sit back and watch it go down in flames honestly. I'm actually not sure Spike knew about Rarity's intentions... did she ever mention them to him? I don't believe so. Afterwords sure, but it may have earned Spike some credibility in the end. Remember, Spike's interest was entirely one sided during Season 1.
I don't think you're giving Rarity enough credit. Blueblood was the definition of ass hole, and I just can't see Rarity even considering him again for a second. Hell, she'd sooner go after Luna.
If Rarity is the master manipulator you claim she's being, then she could of got it all. She would of told him now that everything was back to normal, they could go back to normal. If Spike is naive as you claim he is, he'd of gone for it.
Humans if given the choice and chance would totally be migratory. Lets face it most people don't like blistering heat or freezing cold. If they could afford to, just about everyone would have summer and winter houses.
1064026
What about this line? You see, when you expect a marriage and are given a kiss on the cheek instead, it`s not an adequate replacement. Not at all. Because ultimately, one wants to marry. And if instead one is forever "paid" with cute nicknames, chaste pecks and occasional sisterly hug, it starts to get old after a while. Of course, some unlucky sobs take that and think themselves happy... But this is bollocks. The right thing to do is to cut the connection clean and go look for greener pastures.
OK, a couple facts of life.
Primo, girls like assholes. It`s biological. Assholes tend to be alpha types. That means they have the "best" genes, and biological imperative for any female is to spread their legs before them. Aforementioned females also won`t think twice about saddling some unlucky omega with actual chore of providing and raising those kids.
There are girls that can and will outright ignore the biological imperative... But guys tend to show markedly less interest in them.
Secundo, it does not take master manipulator to do this. In fact, this kind of thing is most common among average - smart enough to actually be attractive in some way and stupid enough to heed biological imperatives without thinking them over.
Tertio... DAMNIT! Think before you say something. Please. I reiterate my previous point, since you failed to actually read it, it seems. History counts many migratory nations and tribes - but their cultural and scientific contributions during their migratory period are quite negligible. Take gypsies, for example. Can you think of any famous gypsy off the bat? Or mongols. Can you tell me anything they contributed to the world`s culture besides the regular sacking of China, Rus and Bysantine empire?
1064092 Marriage is the end game, keyword being end. Forever? It's been a year, maybe almost two, and ultimately, he's made progression.
Girls like fooling around with the bad boys, and even then they still have to not be total tools to get them. Unless the girl tricks herself into believing they love her, and it was an accident, and blah, blah, blah. For starters, Rarity isn't the type to let that happen. She wants a gentlemen and she has the image and qualifications in her head. Rarity's goals are unobtainably high. As such, no pompous jack ass is going to win the day with her. We aren't talking about some social outcast, bimbo, or daddy's girl. Rarity is a passionate, intelligent, independent, business mare. Even if she married a prince and would be set for life, she wouldn't stop designing. There are a number of both psychological and biological factors that lead to the bad boy want. Rarity lacks the first. Also, the bad boy persona only works if it seems like there's something deeper. Bluebloods about as deep as a puddle, and even worse at hiding it.
Now of course your argument becomes about her unobtainably high goals. Spike is in a position where he can chip away at her goals. This goes back to my being able to show your strong points, point. Chivalry, generosity, loving, charming, and in a bit of shallowness that we all have, good looking.
This makes me think back to my statement earlier, maybe it's the girl. Rarity's particular archetype really makes friendship a strong starting point.
Come on, you're making my points for me.
Gypsies are actually really easy to show significance to culture. A lot of modern day dances, music, fashion, and festivities have roots in Gypsy customs. The Mongols have been studied for there strategies and war tactics. In fact, the mongols used the first rocket launcher. The rough translation would be something like beehive. It was a cannon loaded with many arrows attached to fireworks. Accuracy was kind of shitty, but I believe it shoot something like 50 arrows, so chances were they got a hit. Nasty little toy, that obviously contributed to modern weaponry.
1064383
Rarity is the type to rush after prince she does not know.
Also, let`s look on the presented evidence. You just heaped a load of prise on Rarity. Let us assume it`s all indisputable literal truth. With that in mind, tell me - why would she want Spike? A lady like her can easily land herself a good husband in high standing. Like Hoity Toity. Or somepony like Fancy Pants. Or hell, Rarity could easily net herself one Twilight Sparkle, if she elected to lean that way. What possible reason does she have to pick Spike?
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Can you name me one thing of decisively Gypsy origin that personally you use/give much of a damn about?
Also, bull. Mongols were NOT the first to use rocketry in warfare. First were Chinese - and it`s China where Mongols got the technology for making fireworks. In the process of settling down, I have to add. Temuchin had his army armed only with bows, spears and knives, essentially. His strategies were also dead simple - harass enemy with cavalry raids and archers, then break them down in one big cavalry rush. Fancy stratagems? Again, Chinese are responsible for them. One Sun Tsu and his "The Art of War", to be exact.
1064433 Yeah, but she also went fuck no. Not just continue the chase and hope he gets better.
An excellent point. And one I must agree had posed an issue. Fancy Pants is quite the gentlemen, Flur's a luck girl. However, for a relationship to truly work the partners must have both similarities and vast differences. If you dated someone who likes everything you like you'd be bored out of your mind. Likewise someone totally different and you'd never find a peaceful middle ground. Twilight and Rarity have to many differences, and Applejack and Rarity have to many similarities. Their passion for their work would kill any relation between hose two. Rarity's strong personality will scare suitors off. She needs someone romantic, but also someone who will be straight with her. People often think of Spike as being love struck clue-less, not the case. He tells her about her green hair even when no one else would. Spike takes an interest in her passion and often helps her out, even netting the big fashion critique Hoity Toity for her show. Spike has connections, part of being raised by Princess Celestia, and part of being a go getter. Instead of admiring Rarity from afar or quietly, he starts forming a relationship with her It's something that's often overlooked, but Spike has a really high end up bringing. He's a talented Pianist, a excellent chef, and a hard worked. Even if it's overlooked or underplayed, Spike is a catch.
China used the first direct cannon. Those are cool toys too. The mongols were the first to use a multi-launch system for it and not so much explosive as piercing power. The thing's pretty cool, and if you saw it I think you'd instantly recognize it's significance in modern day missiles. Sun Tsu's Art of War is a master piece, that Mongols never read.
I'm really enjoying our little back and forth
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She did that because by the point when she did, it was blatantly obvious that Blueblood is doing his best to shake her off. Princes are rather rigorously educated on the proper conduct - it would be impossible for Blueblood to be unaware of what kind of treatment Rarity would expect. His actions are very obviously deliberate - he is intentionally humiliating Rarity to get rid of her. His motives are open to speculation - maybe he pegs Rarity as a golddigger and thus wants nothing to do with her, maybe he thinks she`s too low-brow for him to bother with, maybe he is already in love with somepony "not suitable" and takes out his frustrations on the would-be princesses. That much is up to fanfic writers to decide - show leaves it open to interpretation. But one thing is certain - Blueblood does NOT recognize Rarity as a lady.
As for Spike, you don`t answer the primary question. Why would Rarity want him over everyone else? He has connections, but so has Rarity - per ce, they have about the same access level to princess, so to speak. He can cook - but so can Rarity. He can play piano - but Rarity does not have one, nor shown much interest in music beyond polite appreciation of thereof.
No, his current state is sorely inadequate. This is the reason why I pointed out that one fiction a couple posts back - it gives Spike a time to grow into something more then a lovesick kid. You fail to recognize one major thing - Spike is a child. His crush on Rarity nonwithstanding, his idea of good time is icecream and hanging out with CMC. He has NO interests to speak of - he had no time to develop something meaningful yet. His piano playing is pretty much the pinnacle of individualism he has at the moment. Cooking was likely developed out of necessity to look after a certain obsessve-compulsive unicorn that easily forgets to eat and sleep when the book is good.
As far as I can consider the situation, the easiest way to actually achieve reasonable Raritry/Spike pairing is to separate them for a decade or so. Give Spike a time to mature a bit and give Rarity a time to grow disillusioned with white stallion princes.
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To put it bluntly, Temuchin figured out one important thing - assimilation. All of the "achievements" of Mongol empire are pilfered from it`s conquests. Knowledge, resources, even people. This is not a new concept, but Temuchin made the best use of it, as far as history record goes. And again, as you can see - nomadic lifestyle did nothing for advancement. It`s when mongols began capturing cities instead of raiding them, when they began to support infrastructure, legal system, bureaucracy - only then the advancement came.
As for "The Art of War", it`s pretty much a certainty that it was read to Ghenghis-khan at some point of his life. He expressed great interest in scientific and philosophical works and would go to great length to converse with prominent carriers of specific philosophy or culture.
1067145 Our he's just full of himself. That is a possibility too. Either way, Rarity ain't giving him the time of day, she has more self respect then that.
Spike is a teenager 4-5 years Twilight's junior. After all, he's babysitting isn't he. You don't let a child babysit children. And don't even tell me that's a big age gap cause that's a fucking joke there. I know plenty of people during high school who dated with a 4 year gap. Adults a number who have 20 year gaps, although I find they tend to crash and burn. Still, 10 years is nothing. So you don't like Ice Cream? Frankly, Ice Cream is great. Made myself a milkshake the other day. He has no interest to speak of? That seems like a bit of a big assumption. Spike is more often then not, not around. We don't really know what he does. We know he can age gems, which in itself is a interest. He enjoys cooking, so again, interest. Spike is in a away, an enigma, because we have the foundation for him, but we lack most of the structure. Spike was raised by Celestia, which makes him a prince in all but blood. Celestia didn't lack on his education, she had him taught in a number of skills, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he has an appreciation for the arts due to his up bringing. After all, that would explain how he knows Hoity Toity. You asked why she'd choose him over another upper-class stallion, because Spike is hitting all the right keys. Also, there seems to be this misconception that Rarity wants to open a boutique and move to Canterlot. She may wish to open a boutique there, but she loves her friends and family, and I for one don't see her wanting to leave them. Even Rarity has matured in the course of the show. I'm not saying a slightly older Spike isn't more valid, say two or three years, maybe four, but I also think if he played his hand right he could win hers now.
Except for assimilation brought together the number of different cultures into new advancements. It's refereed to as the blending of cultures and is most commonly associated with war, conquest, and pillaging. Oh, and I missed your Gypsy question before. Every time I go to a club, I thank the Gypsies as the girls dance and the music plays.
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It has less to do with self-respect and more with glaringly obvious rejection. Even if Rarity wanted anything, it`s bloody certain Blueblood doesn`t.
Also, bollocks. Spike is much younger then Twilight. By a decade, at least. He`s hatched when Twilight is being examined for college-level education. Even if we assume Twilight is a genius, she is at least in mid-to-late teens by the time things happen.
The reason why he`s babysitting is simple - he can be trusted more then foals he babysits. Ostensibly, there is no pressing need for a babysitter at all - which is the only reason why he gets to do it. If it really required adult`s supervision (Cakes and their toddlers, hint-hint), Spike wouldn`t be even considered.
As for icecream - yes, I enjoy it. But it`s not the primary, as it was when I was a child. There are plenty of things I`ll take over icecream. For Spike? You can count things that will be taken over icecream on fingers.
As for him being a "prince" - don`t make me laugh. His education was fully dependant on Twilight Sparkle, who trained him as her personal assistant. That`s it. Celestia herself does not handle his general education - her involvement at most revolved around training him to send mail. As such, Spike is about as educated in arts as Twilight herself is. That is, utterly clueless.
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Aggregating know-hows into working amalgamation is not an achievement. If anything, mongols were assimilated by all the cultures they conquered - a fact made even more blatant by the splitting of empire into separate khanates upon Ghenghis-khan`s death. They didn`t achieve anything on their own - merely consolidated what was already invented. If there were no advanced civilizations to conquer, they would`ve learned nothing.
1068349 College level education? The girls aren't even 20 now. Twilight is a young filly easily younger than the CMC when she takes her entrance exam into Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns. A school we know has a Magic Kindergarten since Twilight is afraid of Celestia sending her back to it. Kindergarten age is four to five, not ten. And yes, gifted schools exist at that age group. My niece is in one, complete with it's own entrance exam.
He eats Ice Cream for a single, whole episode, and it's shown as a sign of rebellion because Twilight won't do anything about it. Teenagers like rebellion.
Celestia directly raised Spike, this is claimed by Lauren Faust herself. It's never made it into a episode as it was never relevant. Twilight and Spike most likely had classes together as a form of bonding, Celestia is good at panning ahead if nothing else. I'm sure she had full intention from the start of keeping Spike and Twilight together. Twilight was a shut in. Spike on the other hand knew about the other ponies at what was going on around the school. Spike goes off on royal business, while Twilight stay at the library. Spike has a life outside of being Twilight's assistant and he always has. He is however quite loyal to his surrogate sister.
And yet, Mongols conquered the advanced civilizations. And then they took what they gained and combined it with other things earned from their conquests. It is in no way new or even old for empires to become split when a leader with multiple children dies. England has a long and bloody history involving such things.
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Aren`t even 20? What are you talking about? All of them are employed in full-time jobs, clearly passed their education. Applejack and Rarity are self-employed businessmares, Twilight Sparkle, Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy are municipal workers and Pinkie Pie is an employee of private commercial venture. All of them are clearly past the age of "I don`t know whom I`m going to be." If translated to human ages, they would all be women aged around 23-27. That makes Spike to be about 8-12 years old in human years, which fits his general behavior and attitude.
As for magic kindergarden - did it ever occur to you that Twilight is afraid to be sent there PRECISELY because she is WAY too old to be there? Because she already passed through that establishment and left it fully confident she learned all that she could there? Because being sent back SO far is the most humiliating thing she can imagine?
Just because Spike has "royal business" does not mean he`s an adult. We have no idea what kind of business that is. It might be a simple health checkup - which would have to be carried out in Canterlot simply because dragon physician is not a profession with lots of demand in a burg like Ponyville. Similarly, just because he is cited to be living with Twilight during her apprenticeship to Celestia does not mean he was the student himself.
No, it`s pretty obvious it`s Twilight whom Spike sees as mother figure, not Celestia. Celestia is more like grandma to him - indisputably wise, but best not bothered without a good reason.
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Ability to conquer does not necessarily mean being advanced. A horde of mongols would`ve made short work of any modern town. Besides, you`re sidetracking my argument. My point is that they contributed NOTHING NEW to the advancement while they were nomadic. They only began to actually advance once they settled in on the conquered lands and assimilated with the local population into a single nation.
1068634 Do you actually back anything up? Faust has it right on her DA page that none of the girls are supposed to be considered over 20. Why? Simple the girls have to be young enough for the lesson learning to be valid. In fact she says 16-20. Lots of teenagers have jobs. I know someone who retired two weeks ago who's owned her own restaurant since the age of 16 at 48 she retired. She still owns the place she just doesn't work there now.
If dragons were more widely known in Canterlot that's where Twilight would of taken Spike during his greed growth. Nor would she of called it royal business. She'd of said, "Spike has a check up in Canterlot." Pretty damn simple.
... *whistle* Cause we all just let children raise newborns. And the fact it's clearly stated by the maker of the show tht Celestia raises him, means nothing.
Yea Mongols are gonna take over a town... Oh wait, we have guns. Lots and lots of very advanced guns that are going to take them out in literally seconds. I might not be a eastern history buff, but if Mongols are considered note worthy I suspect they had some impact, hmm?
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Ok, let`s get one thing clear. What Faust says of the show is not always in direct alignment with show itself. If you would be so kind of remember, her involvement was chiefly with first season. Some things are not presented in the show as it was intended by her - for example, Cadence being an alicorn was NOT intended by Faust at all. So take the statements presented with a grain of salt.
Also, yes, I can vividly see Twilight saying "royal business" just for the sake of Spike`s dignity. Kids tend to be pretty touchy about the needs to see doctor, you know. Also, it might have been not the medical visit at all - we don`t know how Celestia obtains the dragon egg. It`s entirely possible that she has an obligation to present Spike to older dragons from time to time - just like any child in foster home would have to be presented to adoption agent every once in a while to prove they`re receiving proper care.
And duh. A child would not be allowed to take care of newborns. But the same child might be allowed to "oversee" a group of slightly younger children on the rights of "elder sibling", if a situation is not important enough to warrant direct adult supervision. Like, you know, letting children go out to play and trusting the eldest to keep the younger out of trouble.
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Don`t confuse impact and advancement. Religion had humongous impact, and it contributed much to culture - yet it`s also responsible for a millenia of regress that we call Dark Ages.
As for mongols and city... Do YOU have the gun handy? Would YOU be ready to deal with a mongol if he just raced down the street cutting down anyone passing by close enough?
YES, modern army would be able to obliterate mongol horde in a direct confrontation. And in the same time, horde of mongols would completely raze a modern town. Your average citizen is not ready for war, not capable of defending themselves on a moment`s notice and most certainly is not mentally ready to go toe to toe with medieval butcher. So if we were to take a horde and let it loose on town without forewarning, it would be razed to the ground. Reprisal by the modern army would be decisively crushing for the horde, of course - but would that matter all that much to people of the razed town by that moment?
1070037 And that's what Twilight was, the elder sibling. And while you are correct on the fact Faust is no longer associated with the show, she did create the characters. Things like maturity, personality, and age would follow her template.
Don't get me started on religion, Atheist. I could fairly debate the ups and downs religion has created. Horrible things have happened under a churches flag.
Most small town homes have multiple guns and plenty of ammunition. I grew up as a teenager in such an environment. Personal experience and friends. Big cities have a local police force and gangs. No gang is gonna let the city fall to ruin, that's bad for bushiness. A medium size none rural town... well they might be screwed. I have a concealed carry license, so yes I'm prepared.
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It would be unwise to assume no reasonable deviation is possible. I maintain that Twilight is a mother figure for Spike, not sister. A good writer can twist it both ways, if they so elect, but that much is author`s prerogative.
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Yes, mongols would lack the manpower to deal with the megapolis. I considered the town comparable in size to the horde attacking it. That`s how it unfolded in medieval times.
But we`re getting awfully sidetracked. My original point is buried under the discussion. Not good.
Let`s sum the bullet points to keep things on the surface. Nomadic civilizations tend to be much less advanced. This is tied to the fact that for nomads, weight of their belongings is a crucial factor. Therefore, nomadic civilizations tend to rely on word of mouth and memory to retain their knowledges, rather then hardcopy records in paper, bamboo, clay, parchment or stone. Thus, they suffer much of knowledge attrition and their knowledgebase tends to be strongly authoritative - precipitating lack of fundamental advances and breakthroughs.
Nomadic civilisations CAN impact the world in a big way, but those impacts come through conquest and result in nomads assimilating with the settling civilizations. Cultures that tend to preserve their nomadic status instead tend to be impoverished and underdeveloped in comparison to the settled cultures.
Same thing applies to Equestrian dragons. Being migratory, they are quite primitive in comparison to elaborate pony civilization, although they are likely capable of a successful bout of conquering against ponies, if given proper motivation to do so.
1070172 Well yes, I have read some great fic where Spike sees Twilight as his mom. Imprinting from being hatched by her was usually the justification over who raised him. Also some people have Twi's parents assist raising Spike. However, cannonly Celestia is considered his mother figure, unless it becomes deemed otherwise. I actually suspect that Spike's, "royal bushiness," is talking to his contacts in Canterlot and spending time with Celestia.
Deviation is possible, but age is something you can't deviate from. If we look at the girls or Spike now, and then from the begging of the show. They've all changed and matured. A lot of this can be accredited to the lessons. And because Lauren Faust no longer is part of deciding those lessons, the current story board writers control how the characters grow and progress. But even so, we started with the base she created.
I approve of this summary. Personally, I still wouldn't call them primitive, but I can see the fondation for the claim.