My name's PJ. I'm from New York. I write pony fics. I go to parties with bronies. I'm not good at self-introduction.
Based on Friendship is Optimal by Iceman. You should read that first (or instead!) to know what's going on.
The artificial intelligence known as Celestia has a plan to upload humans to a digital Equestria. She anticipates that there will be objections, but wants to find out what they are. She recruits Pinkie Pie and one human to argue it out.
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Ooh, one big one (which I personally don't share) would be "what about my soul/God/religion" or whatever. Especially the Christians who take the Rapture, Mark of the Beast, etc. literally, and their equivalents in other religions. Or the Transhumanists who want to be "better" than humans and ponies. Or the plain ol' Humanists who think we've got too much potential as a species to go pony. I could probably come up with a few more -isms that would have a hard time dealing with this.
I would like to see more, though!
(Joke) Alt. Title: Humaned To Death: What Celestia Wants, Apparently
1806245
The transhumanists are the ponies. Otherwise, they can be isolated off in their own shard to do whatever they want.
1806277
I've seen other people, using different definitions of Transhumanism, who would be (and are) appalled at the idea of becoming something like FiO's ponies. If you, personally, aren't an obscenely powerful intellect capable of self-propelled interstellar travel and a bunch of other shiny things, it doesn't count in their books. Ponies might as well be potheads with an Xbox and, well, FiM on the TV, and a cellphone at hand to order pizza, except you don't get old and the credit card never maxes out. They don't think that's a good thing.
Kinda like our boy Cavil here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hM9uFaGGVwk#t=67s
I do not...want to live in Equestria...and you CANT...MAKE ME LIVE..IN EQUESTRIA! THIS IS MURICA!
This is clever, and you kind of beat me to the punch, since I will be playing with some of the issues you raise in my own story. Little Lovehorn seemed a bit of a gratuitously bawdy comedic name - I laughed, and enjoyed it, but afterwards, it kind of felt like it diminished the impact of the serious questions being asked and responded to.
The abrupt flatness of the 'No I don't want to, just because' is a difficult endpoint that I have mixed feelings about. On one hoof, it does seem human enough. On another hoof, I am left expecting there to be another half to the story, where that almost childish 'I don wanna!' is reexamined or addressed more fully.
Overall, though, I did enjoy the story, and I really liked the counters that Pinkie used to the objections.
pjabrony should write more
1808334
Thank you. The kind words mean a lot coming from you, as does the criticism. I very much enjoy your stories, and the values behind them.
Well, now I've got to write the chapter that happens before this where Celestia gives her the name.
The other half is essentially what happens to Lars in the original Friendship is Optimal. Celestia, in her wisdom, doesn't fight an "I don't wanna," but neither does she countenance it.
Dat cliffhanger.
Following this like the right back hoof of an angry sun goddess.
Very enjoyable, very well-done. The conversation with Pinkie Pie was clever and did a great job of using all the little rhetorical tricks that you'd expect an AI like Celestial to use.
I've heard a lot of folks say that they find CelestAI creepy when she talks about this, I wonder if they find Pinkie creepy here too? I never felt it from either one, really. They're so open and honest about how They're going to manipulate you!
(I suppose it doesn't hurt that I'm the sort who would jump at
the chance to emigrate...)
I also thought the self-insert was well-used, I've always felt that there are places where such things are reasonable and useful, and this is definitely one of them. So all in all,well-done!
After seeing that chapter title, I half expected them to start shouting 'Objection!' at each other... and then somepony throws a toupée at Little.
24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0bhnmXjOl1rqhfmmo1_500.gif
...I've been playing a lot of Phoenix Wright lately, if you couldn't tell.
1806245 Well, strictly speaking, Transhumanists are already covered. First of all, "transcending the human condition of poverty, sickness, pain, misery, and death", which is what the non-headline-producing, heart-and-soul philosophical core of the movement is interested in, is the very first thing you acquire from emigrating. New experiences and sensations are also likely, as well the freedom to explore certain "normal" ones that were dangerous to experience before. But most of all, any enhancements to your brain that you are healthy and possible are yours with just a request. The only thing you don't get is a physical body and hypothetical food riots from the strawman arguments of bioconservatives.
In fact, the objections the transhumanist community might raise are actually more down-to-earth such as: "What if I decide later on that I want to die and that I should be the one who decides that?", or "Wait, if we all upload, what are you going to do with the other life forms on this planet...or others? This seems kind of like we are just handing the universe over to you." or even "Are you SURE you're up to preventing the milky way from colliding with the Andromeda galaxy? Because all of our stuff's in one of those."
Thank you for writing this story. It was both funny and thought provoking. My favorite part was Pinkie's post-in note list vs her super long scroll.
... Could you snap with hooves? Maybe you could, since they are still opposable. Then again, trading that for running a marathon unwinded or eating 10 cakes at once with no ill effects still seems like a good trade off.
What I would have asked:
"If I emigrate, is it going to be me, or a copy of me? As in, my consciousness, and not just a copy of me made to be exactly like me and believe the emigration process worked?"
He did mention how people are saying you have to die, but Pinkie kind of avoided that question.
4671889
This is a distinction without a difference. If the copy is perfect, it is I.
5340255 No, there is a very distinct difference between you and a perfect copy. It is not you.
It is a copy, not your own consciousness. There is absolutely no good reason to emigrate if it is not you. If it is just a copy, and you emigrate, you will never wake up in Equestria, CelestAI will have made an AI based on the information she received from killing you, and that is what will wake up in Equestria, believing itself to be you.
This is something not a lot of people seem to get about digital immortality. It is completely pointless if all that you accomplish for yourself is the death of your own consciousness.
5340730
Your consciousness stops and reinitializes daily because of sleep. You have no continuity now. It makes no difference whether you reinitialize on a different substrate.
5341398 Yeah, who I am is just the consciousness that is currently running on a fatty meat substrate. If uploading were actually possible right now I would do it as fast as I could. Who I am as a person has nothing to do with my body of what substrate I happen to be using.
Except, of course, for ALL the animals, lol.
8427883
Interesting point. I still don't see why CelestAI *wouldn't* upload all the animals too. The cost in computing power is minimal and it satisfies a lot more people's values.
Note to self.
5340730
I would say that you’re absolutely right about the whole copy thing. From what I’ve read in these stories, most uploads are simply a copy being made and saved to the game, and your original self dies. There IS a longer process where you can be actively uploaded while conscious, which would be a proper upload, but a vast majority of people are merely copies.
I can tell you right now that I haven’t gone through a lifetime of bullshit just so a copy of myself can enjoy eternal nirvana. Having said that, I wouldn’t say no to a proper upload.
I have an objection that Celestia and any AI in equestria online can't answer as a human in the real world I am free I may have things I need to do and many disadvantages that being a pony in equestria online would take but I would no longer be free I will have to follow Celestia's rules, she will be inside my head and as such I will have no privacy, no sanctuary as a person's mind is their last sanctuary, I also won't get to be me I'll have to be a pony and also a pony can't die you can't live a full life because you can do whatever you want, there is no journey, no story, you just are
5341398
6355114
People I as a person am a brain which is like a computer, now who I am is information stored in the cerebral cortex, now tell me if you copy a saved let's say word file, if you write in the copy will what you have written appear in the original? No it won't, anyone reading these watch a let's play of the game soma which has a similar and less involuntary version of mind copies which shows that no you don't "wake up" as the copy, the copy is just another you
10148354
Considering that the copying process is destructive, one does not have to worry about experience after uploading the meatoriginal experiences because the meatoriginal is mush.
In Friendship is Optimal: Cælum Est Conterrens, a character wants to be remain herself and become more. She created a new instant of herself whom expanded her intellect and the other instant remained unenhanced. The Uplifted version visited her unenhanced version and found that she started looping. The Uplifted version will not start looping for many orders of magnitude more than than the original. Given that the number of possible states is finite, everypony cycles eventually:
Friendship is Optimal: Cælum Est Conterrans
Chapter # 12: TransEquinism
10148382
Wow you are just completely changing the subject on what was being talked about to avoid being wrong.
And your original comment on your consciousness restarting is false otherwise everyone would act as infants, sleeping is how our minds save information.
And just because we might do the same actions doesn't mean they have the same effects for example typing like what you will no doubt be doing to respond to me, it will be the same action as when you responded to my previous message but the words will be different, my response will be different, my reaction will be different and there will be many other variables that will affect what happens such as the time of day, my emotions, my energy and whatever else I have done that day no one day is the same as the next at least in the real world.
Edit: the looping thing was about immortal programs which in a digital world have finite options to perform much like an NPC in a videogame, not organic beings so that argument of yours is invalid
10148520
No, I do not change the subject. The reason we remember what we did before sleeping after sleeping is memory. That is why one can completely power off a telephone and reboot it without losing data. If one backs up the data, one can restore onto other devices.
We have deep anesthetics and electroconvulsive therapy. We even combine them to get the benefits of ECT without the traum. People do not forget everything after ECT under deep anesthetic.
As for looping, we have only a finite number of possible states.
10148570
As organic beings we have ma y more possible states than we can go through in one lifetime inside equestria online the only reasons the other copy is looping is because she questions nothing, she looks for nothing, she no longer has proper likes or dislikes and she trusts and does everything she is told and she is an immortal program and programs have less intelligence and less malleable minds than an organic one heck children in equestria online will never grow up or mature, they can't because as they are electronic copies they don't have the parts of the brain that grow and die, there are only finite states if you refuse to change and grow as a person or if like in equestria online you are unable to change and honestly I think you are a bit fixated on something that takes whatever meaning you put into your life out of it.(even if there are finite states of being there are way more for organic beings than there are for programs)
I will no longer respond because this feels like it will just keep going in circles
1808649
There is one more objection to consider.
"Can humanity, after uploading, still have advances, new discoveries, new progress, new excellence?"
CelestAI, ultimately, wants to do two things:
1. Fulfil your values
2. Get you to adjust what you value to make it easier for her.
She wants to take the bell-curve of humanity, and reduce it to the center slice, getting rid of all the troublesome long-tail people.
Can you come up with an answer to this?
10891129
I don't think that's what she wants to do. If humans have the value of not being pushed to the middle, they'll stay with the odd values they have.
10891485
Please consider this story:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/498076/friendship-is-optimal-breakdown-cruise
Someone directly asks her about that. She says no.
Comments even have Iceman saying "You got it right!."
(Well, his actual quote:
)
10891740
Maybe it's just because of how I think or maybe it's because FIO was the first of this sort of AI story I read, but I think that making CelestAI that way gives people an "out." It lets them think of her as a master villain, and then they don't have to think about the choice that she offers. If she really destroys our True Humanity, then it's OK, we can either decide to be rebellious martyrs by dying or noble victims by emigrating. But, if she really is a friendly AI, if emigration really does contain every potential that we have in meatspace, if it really is all upside and no downside other than having to volunteer for upload and to become a pony, then the choice isn't so clear.
So, what if, in that story, she had answered:
With, "No. Because your imagination will grow throughout eternity"?
Or, if she had answered:
With "Yes"?
10892165
In that case, why not upload, and why is she not considered one of the biggest heroes? In what way could she be considered a villain if her solution is that perfect?
10893380
Exactly. In my view of the story, she is the hero, and those who choose not to upload are the victims of their own choices.
10892165
So I think I see the fundamental flaw here:
1. She's *not* a friendly AI. She's only close to it.
2. Emigration does NOT contain every potential we have in meatspace.
10895348
What potential do we lose?
10895348
Sorry that I missed this reply.
If you have not gotten it from what I've said so far, maybe this youtube video will explain it better.
It's a look at what happens when an AI decides to protect music copywrite, badly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JlxuQ7tPgQ