Having been granted rulership over the city of Vanhoover, and confessed their feelings for each other, Lex Legis and Sonata Dusk have started a new life together. But the challenges of rulership, and a relationship, are more than they bargained for.
“That was so not what I signed on for,” groaned Nosey, flopping down onto her sleeping bag.
Sonata cast a tired grin at her friend from her own resting place a few feet away. “Aw, come on. I’m sure you can make a fun story out of this. ‘Getting Down and Dirty in Vanhoover,’ or something like that.”
Nosey turned her head to give Sonata a very Lex-like glare. “We just spent eight hours cleaning up garbage. There is no way that anypony would find that to be at all exciting, interesting, or newsworthy.”
“Which in no way diminishes its necessity,” came the voice of Lex himself as he approached them. “There’s a lesson in that: events don’t need to be glamorous to be important.” Nosey’s response was to frown at him, before turning her head away with a loud grunt of disapproval, nose in the air.
She had initially been excited when Lex had announced, in the aftermath of the attack on their ship, that they were going to immediately go ahead and “establish a forward base of operations.” That phrase had instantly evoked images of him having a secret base in the city, or conjuring a castle out of nowhere with his freaky magic, or something equally fascinating. It had been enough to leave her chomping at the proverbial bit as they’d guided the ship up to the pier.
It had been a profound disappointment to learn that he’d meant that they’d be holing up in a warehouse on the wharf. But that had been nothing compared to finding out what the place was like on the inside: Rotting garbage was everywhere. Bugs and rodents were crawling all over the place. Worst of all was the stench, which had set Nosey and several other ponies to gagging when they’d first smelled it.
None of which had deterred Lex in the slightest. Instead, he’d simply began issuing instructions as though it were the most natural thing in the world for him, having the crew break open the cleaning supplies they’d brought with them and get to work. The doctors had then been directed to join in as well, and Nosey had been preparing to go settle back into her hammock on board the ship when Lex’s eyes had fallen on her.
She had flat-out refused to help at first, pointing out that she was a reporter and not a garbage-pony. Lex had shown no sympathy for that particular argument, and had no reservations telling her exactly what he thought of her recalcitrance. Things between the two of them had, at that point, begun to devolve into a shouting match, and even Sonata’s intervention hadn’t helped very much. In the end, it had only been Lex’s threat to teleport her back to Tall Tale if she didn’t help out – she still wasn’t sure if he could actually do that, but she couldn’t risk it – that had made her don a hazmat suit and get to work scrubbing.
They had worked throughout the night, and although it had initially seemed like an impossible task, they had slowly but surely made their way through the structure. Little by little, the garbage had been hauled away, the pests had been chased off, and the smell had been scoured away by numerous applications of disinfectant. Eventually, Lex had declared the place fit for habitation, and despite the fact that everypony looked like they were about to collapse, they had managed a cheer, pleased with what they’d accomplished.
Even Nosey had felt good about the results of her hard work. Not that she’d ever admit it to that insufferable jerk who was leading them. The last thing he needed was to have his ego inflated even more by being told that he’d been right to make her help out.
At that point, Lex had conjured food for everypony, and that had been enough to momentarily make Nosey forget that she was annoyed with him. At least until she realized that he’d created bowls of some mush that looked like wet cardboard, and had tasted about as good, with nothing but cups of plain water to wash it down. She’d meant to complain, but apparently had worked up more of an appetite than she’d realized, because she wolfed her serving down with gusto despite its lackluster flavor.
After everypony had eaten, the final task had been to unload the remaining supplies and bring them into a small interior area that was separated from the rest of the warehouse. Judging from the tables and chairs that had initially been there, it had been used as some sort of rec area. Now that it had been cleaned out, it was serving as a communal living space, with lanterns arranged around it as sleeping bags and pillows were laid out. Naturally, Nosey had been the first to fling herself down onto one.
She’d been all ready to settle in and fall fast asleep when Lex just had to come over and start lecturing her. Sure, he had no doubt come over to see Sonata, but he just couldn’t resist throwing a barb her way before the two of them got all lovey-dovey. Big, stupid jerk.
Keeping her head turned away from him as she settled back down – hoping he noticed how she was ignoring him – she couldn’t help but hear the two of them speak. “I’ve laid down wards to keep this place secure. They should last for roughly twenty-four hours,” murmured Lex softly.
Despite herself, one of Nosey’s ears twitched as she heard that, wanting to know more. Apparently Sonata felt the same way, because a moment later she asked, “Oh yeah?”
“The first is an abjuration designed to impede intruders with a series of effects,” he replied. “Right now, outside of this room, the corridors of the warehouse are filled with a thick fog, which at certain key locations has been set to be noxious. Each intersection has a minor illusion designed to confuse intruders about which direction they take. The stairs to the second level are completely covered by thick webbing. And last of all, all three doors into the warehouse itself, and the one into this room, have not only been magically locked and reinforced, but also covered with an illusion to make them look just like the surrounding wall.”
Although the effects he was listing were interesting, Nosey found herself captivated by Lex’s voice. It had softened to a pitch that she’d never heard him use before, losing the harsh edge that she’d always heard before. He almost sounded…normal.
“Wow. That’s like, super impressive,” giggled Sonata quietly, and Nosey suddenly comprehended what was going on. The two of them were flirting! He was trying to impress her by bragging about what he could do, and Sonata was eating it up! For some reason, Nosey could feel her face heating up as she realized that.
Nosey had roomed with the two of them for days, and she’d never heard them talk to each other like that. Or at least, she’d never heard Lex talk like this; Sonata was bubbly and playful virtually all of the time. Maybe they’d done it after she’d fallen asleep? That would make sense, since even she was surprised she wasn’t asleep already. But even so, they were in a room full of ponies…except that a surreptitious glance around confirmed that everypony else was on the opposite side of the room, apparently trying to give the couple their space.
“That’s not all,” continued Lex, his voice still making that husky purr. “I laid down a second ward to prevent spying. Nobody outside this room can hear anything from inside it. They wouldn’t be able to see inside it either, if there were any windows. Even magic sensors won’t work.”
“Hmm.” Sonata’s grunt conveyed that she was impressed, and Nosey could hear her shifting around on her sleeping bag. Was she making room for him to lie down next to her? “So now that you’ve gotten us all tucked away safely, what are you going to do?” The invitation in her voice was unmistakable, and Nosey could feel her heart starting to beat faster. There was no way they were going to do anything right here, right? No, that was preposterous; they were right in front of everypony! Even so, Nosey held her breath as she waited to hear what Lex was going to say.
“I’m going to go scouting.”
Nosey blinked. What?
“What?” Sonata’s voice sounded exactly the same way that Nosey felt right at that moment.
“I’ll leave Severance here,” Lex continued in the same soft tone, as though he hadn’t just completely ruined the mood. “Since the defenses I set up are based around confounding potential enemies rather than defeating them, it’s better for it to stay with everypony in case they’re breached or bypassed. I doubt that I’ll be gone more than a few hours, but I’m not willing to take any chances.”
“You, like, can’t be serious.” Sonata’s voice was a complete deadpan. Unnoticed, Nosey nodded at her friend’s words. It was one thing to try and impress his girlfriend, but this was going too far!
“Of course I’m serious,” came the entirely-unsurprising answer, making Nosey roll her eyes. “The sun has just risen, so if I head out now I can maximize the amount of time that I can spend searching the surrounding environment before-”
“Oh for cryin’ out loud!” yelled Nosey, sitting up suddenly and causing both of them to jump.
“Nosey? What-”
“Oh shut up! Honestly, I can’t believe you!” Ignoring the way that everypony was looking at her now, Nosey sat up, glaring at Lex with undisguised anger. “What kind of tough guy act are you trying to pull?! You’ve gone almost an entire day without sleeping, you barely touched that tasteless drek you call food, and now you’re going to go wander around a dangerous city, all alone, without your strongest weapon?! Are you trying to get killed?!”
“That’s not-”
“No! You know what? Just no!” Standing up, Nosey clamored out of her sleeping bag. It was the sort that could be unzipped across one side and the bottom, letting it unfold into what was effectively a large blanket, and she did that before dragging it right next to Sonata, who looked at her in confusion.
Lex was about to ask Nosey what she thought she was doing, but didn’t have a chance as she suddenly lunged at him, wrapping her forelegs around his neck and immediately flinging herself down onto her sleeping bag, dragging him with her. Squawking at the unexpected assault, Lex couldn’t avoid being pulled down onto the makeshift blanket. “Let me go!”
“No! Sonata, help me out here!” yelled Nosey as she held onto the struggling stallion.
For her part, Sonata was just staring, dumbfounded at the sudden turn of events…before an idea came to her. Turning away for a moment, she grabbed the corner of her pillow in her teeth and swung it around, right into Lex’s face with a thick whumping sound. “Pillow fight!” she announced with glee.
“Sonata!” yelled Lex. “What are y-” He was cut off as another pillow collided with his face, this time wielded by Nosey. The sight set off a round of laughter among the rest of the ponies watching the spectacle, which was immediately followed by pillows starting to fly in every direction. In a few moments complete pandemonium had broken out, as whoops of excitement and shouts of joy filled the room.
Turning into shadow to avoid the impromptu melee, Lex’s green-and-purple eyes glared at the mares that had started the brawl. “Have you two completely taken leave of your senses?!” he hissed at them.
“Aw, come on, Lex! Change back!” pleaded Sonata. “Everyone else is having fun, so why can’t you?”
“Stop pushing yourself so hard all the time,” agreed Nosey. “Blowing off some steam and resting for a few hours won’t change the city, and it’ll do you a lot of good!”
For a long moment, Lex didn’t respond, staring at the two of them and weighing their words. Then, without warning, he telekinetically yanked Sonata’s pillow away and whacked Nosey with it, returning to physical form as he did so. “You’re both so dead,” he promised darkly, but the corners of his mouth were turned ever-so-slightly upwards.
Fifteen minutes later, things had settled down, and the tension in the room was notably lighter, with the atmosphere now resembling a big slumber party rather than a siege. Several ponies were having hushed conversations, a few had produced a deck of cards from somewhere and were playing a game, while others were swapping stories.
For his part, Lex had fallen asleep, Sonata slumbering on one side of him…and Nosey on the other.
Nosey sticks her nose into Lex and Sonata's relationship. So far, it seems to be going well, but will that last?
One can only imagine the havoc that would have ensued had Severance gotten involved in the pillow fight.
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Toldya Nosey/Lex sgipping was a thing.
Severance's involvement in the pillow fight, provided Lex intervened with some commands not to hurt anypony, would have resulted in less one pillow followed by awkward silence.
Lex went all out securing the warehouse though given the lack of information he has on the sahaugins, he probably wanted to cover all his bases since he thought he wouldn't be around to protect them on his scouting run. So it was a good thing Nosey intervened when she did as it ran the risk of Lex overexerting himself should he encounter more dangers outside though it seems a certain goddess' blessing seems to be affecting Nosey, which was unexpected to say the least.
Though it could be just a red herring to throw us off and it's just Nosey making sure she doesn't lose sight of her next big scoop...maybe?
As for giving Severance belly rubs(I didn't even consider that line of thought), I think as a weapon, Severance might prefer some polishing on its blade more. So unless Sonata learned something about weapon maintenance during her stay in the Everglow, I doubt she'd know that.
Ah, Guards and Wards. I love that spell.
Though why would Severance be a problem in a pillow fight? If it uses the flat side of it's blade like a catapult, it should have no problem to participate. And I think everdancing doesn't increase the force the pillows would be thrown at either :/
Also, what's "west cardboard"? I never heard of it, and google didn't give me something on it either .-.
I really hope that Lex remembered the water borne can come up through the drains and any undercroft.
Very few people look up.
Almost nobody expects to be attacked through the previously solid wall or floor.
Sonata is working on using Nosy to rub Lex the right way when she isnt around?
7876907 I thought you'd enjoy that.
7876926 I had the amusing idea that a pillow might get impaled on its blade, and then not easily come off.
As for whether or not Nosey is falling in love with Lex...it's uncertain at this point, probably even to herself. As a reporter, Nosey doesn't usually have an ongoing relationship with the subjects of her stories, and they certainly don't tell her what to do. I get the feeling that it's been a long time since anypony has made Nosey do something that she didn't want to do, and that turned a bit of a corner for her. But whether that's love or friendship has yet to be determined.
7877141 I was more thinking that Severance would simply slice every pillow that came its way, which would be rather awkward.
But you're right that guards and wards was one of the spells that Lex used. Can you figure out the other one?
Also, you caught a typo; that should have been "wet" cardboard.
7877522 Heh. At this point, Sonata is probably just happy that her new bestie is getting along with her boyfriend. It's no big deal if they all snuggle together while they're sleeping, right? She and Nosey were cuddling together while in that hammock on the ship, after all. It's totally innocent.
7877629 I'm primarily a 3.5 player, so I'm not 100%, but could it be Mage's Private Sanctum?
7877789 Correct!
7877802 Woohoo!
7877625 Now that I look at the chapter again, it's not falling in love per say but rather her noticing another aspect of Lex's personality and whether or not Kara's blessing played a part is, as you've implied, uncertain.
Regardless, the abrupt pillow fight, while short, was fun to read and now I wish you included the scenario of Severance's involvement in the pillow fight since I'm now imagining a random refugee receiving a pillow and blankets, only to blink at the slightly emptied pillow and the hastily patched hole where it had been punctured.
7877832 It's always fun for me when someone notices part of the game mechanics coming up in the story; it's like seeing them peek behind the curtain.
That and I'm a huuuge nerd when it comes to D&D, and so leap at any chance to talk about any aspect of the game with someone (though that all too often turns into a debate).
7877840 You know, I struggled with having Severance get involved in the pillow fight - that's why I mentioned it in the author's notes section - but couldn't make it work. That was largely because that placed more emphasis on the fight itself rather than the result of the fight, which was that Lex, Sonata, and Nosey all had a moment where they grew closer to each other (though for Sonata this wasn't really anything new). Still, it seems like a missed opportunity now.
7877855 I know that feeling. I'm a huge D&D-fan too^^ (though I do clearly prefer the Eclipse-point-buy over the class-system).
7878003 It makes me incredibly happy to hear that; I think that it's a shame that Eclipse isn't more widely known, since it fixes just about everything that people complain about with the d20 System.
7878016 It really is. Most people in my group generally allow me to use it, but consider it "too complicated" (though I suppose it's fair since one of them changes what character they want to play every two sessions).
Eclipse does away with the lack of utility for "mundanes", as it would require someone to have an int of 3 or lower to be unable to pick up the Inner Fire via Unique Training alone, really well. Sure, there will probably be power-gaps between the characters, but if there are, they'll be purely because they are wanted.
7879251 I've got a fellow in my group who switches out his character every so often too, though in his case it's after several weeks.
To nitpick your example for a moment, Unique Training gives you bonus CP due to some sort of special circumstance, which I'd be very leery of giving out, since finding extra CPs isn't that hard (with the major caveat of "depending on what your GM allows," since even Eclipse's author says that you shouldn't just let players use all of the options without any oversight).
Instead, I'd require a character that wanted to take that ability to buy Witchcraft II, specialized for one-half cost/only as a prerequisite (for 6 CP total), and then buy Inner Fire normally (for another 6 CP). Of course, that's only going to help them out if they have a mental ability score that's high enough to get some bonus spell slots (I'd recommend at least a 16 in that ability score, just so they can get 3rd-level spells), and even then they won't have much of a caster level. Personally, I can think of better ways to spend 12 CP if you want to dabble in magical abilities while maintaining a decidedly "mundane" focus.
My personal favorite is to use the following:
-Adept, specialized for one-half cost/only applies to two skills (3 CP). (Take [Rune] Casting and [Rune] Mastery in given magical theme, e.g. healing.)
-Fast Learner, specialized for one-half cost/only for skill points, corrupted for two-thirds cost/only for Adept skills (2 CP).
-3d6 Mana, specialized for one-half cost/may only be used to power Rune Magic, corrupted for two-thirds cost/no form of natural magic (6 CP).
-a +3 specialty in a certain use of a thematically-related skill (1 CP). (e.g. if you've taken Healing magic - that is, your two Adept skills are Healing Casting and Healing Mastery - then put this specialty into the Heal skill/only for diagnosing maladies.)
Just like that, you've gained a low-fantasy ability to use magic. The type of magic is going to be limited to a single thematic area, based on whatever you apply your Rune Magic skills to, and you're going to need to use it sparingly (since without Rite of Chi, your Mana will only recover at 1 to 2 points per day), but it will automatically scale as you level up, thanks to Fast Learner automatically applying skill points towards your Rune Magic skills at every level.
If you want to branch out, then just spend another 12 CP: 3 to buy off the specialization on Adept (and take another two Rune Magic skills), 2 to turn the specialization on Fast Learner from "one-half cost" to "double effect," 1 to buy another skill specialty related to your new magic (e.g. if you take Warding (that is, defensive magic), then buy a +3 specialty in Knowledge (engineering)/only for defensive fortifications), and 6 CP for another 3d6 Mana...note that you can freely decide how much Mana you can spend on either form of Rune Magic.
At that point, you really can't buy more of those via Fast Learner and Adept, since Eclipse strongly recommends on putting hard limits on taking those abilities more than once (you can, it's just not recommended). You'd probably be better off getting more Mana and Rite of Chi (probably with Bonus Uses) anyway, since that'll pump up how much you can use your Rune Magic over short periods of time. Maybe some skill-boosters for those skills too, but you'll hit diminishing returns pretty quickly that way.
7880174 My example did indeed assume that Unique Training was available. Personally I have a tendency to build my characters to have Mentor (Specializied for reduced cost: Prerequisite only) and Secret Master (Specialized and Corrupted: Only for Mentor/Secret Master) for 5 CP (as to provide a sufficient teacher that has the capacity to teach and train things) and then spent the first 4 CP to buy off the specialization and corruption of the Secret Master (as to demonstrate an amount of attunement or basic training) before going into the actual learning process. "Performing an unique training regime under a supernatural mentor teaching you the ability in question" seems to be what Unique Training implies.
Though when you specialize Witchcraft for double effect (to have it count as the 12 required for advanced witchcraft), you can, instead of buying the ability with 6 CP, choose a pact (Vampirism, Blood or Essence work quite well for that sort of thing). Also, there is technically nothing stopping you from taking a physical stat as your casting attribute (in a similar style to the 3.0 Psionics), which was actually what gave me the idea to try this approach in the first place (Constitution and especially Strenght are popular).
This still results in a low caster level unless specialized though (probably turning off non-save casting and cutting the known spells in half).
When it comes to rune magic... to be fair, I never really utilized it. Then again, that stems from the fact that I tend to play full-manifester most of the time. It seems like a solid system on it's own, even if I'm in doubt that it can cover as many utility-effects as the Inner Fire can.
The idea of a rune magic Adept makes a lot of sense though...
That does make me wonder... If I have a character start off with a fully formed Fast Learner and Adept, Corrupt the Adept for increased effect (the "Obviously Black Magic" corruption would work fine) and add Druid-like Duties and Restrictions for points to put into rune magic skills, the character could start with 5 different types of rune magic that automatically get their ranks. In fact, if I were to add another restriction (learn no regular casting progression), I could get Rite of Chi (Specialized to only allow Mana-recovery and Corrupted to disallow the use of Rite of Chi without bonus uses) and then obtain a Create Relic to put the points of the new restiction into, getting either 4 Rite of Chi bonus uses or 3d6 Mana every level.
I think I'll have to try that sometime...
7880513 I'm not quite sure I understand your the process by which you're using Mentor and Secret Master. Specializing Mentor for one-half cost/only to be a prerequisite is simple enough, but specializing and corrupting Secret Master so that it...can only have you learn Mentor and Secret Master seems circular. I think what you meant is to specialize and corrupt it to only grant Unique Training, though I'd say that constituted specializing only.
If that's the case, I'm not sure that you'd need to buy off the specialization and corruption for The Secret Master at all, since it's essentially done all that you need it to do. Strictly speaking, you don't need to purchase any of that at all in order to get Unique Training, though I can respect wanting to do so for story-based reasons. I personally disagree that Unique Training necessarily requires that you study under a supernatural master, however; rather, I think it's a broad catch-all for "you went through circumstances that, even for adventurers, were truly bizarre."
Insofar as Witchcraft goes, taking it twice and specializing it for one-half cost/only as a prerequisite is effectively the same as taking it once and specializing for double effect for the same limitation. You're not wrong that Inner Fire could then be purchased for a net cost of 0 CP if you take a Pact, but for a single ability those tend to be more trouble than they're worth, at least looking at it from a purely cost-benefit analysis. If you take Inner Fire with Vampirism, for example, might say that it only applies to regaining Power, which you technically won't be using, but no GM worth their salt would ever let it fly that you've therefore made a Pact that costs you nothing; far more likely that you'd need to steal Power from others to reactivate your bonus spell slots rather than regaining them naturally with rest (at the usual count for Power-to-spell-slot conversion). The same would go for Blood, and Essence is just asking to be hit with with a nasty penalty.
You're right that you could take a physical ability score with Inner Fire, and their use in 3.0 psionics does set precedent in that regard, though I'd still want a pretty good narrative reason to make that particular thematic connection, as per what Inner Fire requires. As it stands, that smacks a little too close to "powergaming" for my comfort. I prefer to follow Eclipse's recommendation of coming up with a strong theme for a character first, and then building character abilities around that, rather than looking for mechanical optimization. That said, if you're already making a character that's focused on martial, rather than mystical, abilities - and since Inner Fire is so limited in what it offers anyway - it probably wouldn't be a big deal.
With regard to Rune Magic, you're typically going to get more out of it than you would with Inner Fire, unless you've truly pumped that ability score into the stratosphere, since you're ONLY getting those bonus spells, which in each case will be very few at all for each spell level. You do need to tie Rune Magic to a particular theme, but within that theme you have a lot of flexibility. Whereas Inner Fire requires you to pick specific spells, Rune Magic works so long as you're within your theme.
Having said that, your idea for gaining five auto-maxed Rune Magic skills isn't a bad idea, but the idea of making an ever-stronger relic to hold massive amounts of Rite of Chi or Mana - combined with those duties, restrictions, and the corruption on Adept - is just asking the GM to make you a target. Between the use of Adept as obvious black magic and the duties of a druid (which will likely have you obeying the dictates of an order without being able to draw upon its support, be isolated from civilization, and need to oppose efforts to tame/overthrow/destroy various wilderness areas and their associated spirits and inhabitants...those are just some basic ideas), you've essentially written yourself as a wilderness-dwelling character that dabbles in evil magic and guards a relic of great power. That's basically the sort of character who's a target in most adventures, and you'll likely have paladins coming to slay you and take that relic away from you once word gets out.
7880884 It somewhat is. The idea is to have Secret Master grant nothing but the ability to buy off it's own Specialization and Corruption. Of course, once you have done that, Secret Master will lack the Specialization and Corruption it had before, allowing you to use it as normal. This doesn't really allow you to save any CP, but allows you to take 4 of them out of the Unique Training pool instead of your Class abilities.
Still, it IS only for story-based reasons. Unique Training can be, as you said, used without any ability from the mentor line. I just like to be able to point at the ability when questions arise. I often have a few contacts for the same reason.
I'd say that even if Vampirism would require you to re-activate your spell slots, it could still be worth it, depending on how the DM interprets the fact that the touch deals 1d4 damage to a victim without power points (as in, does this still grant power points). If yes, then a party member with a lot of hit points could work as the source and just be healed up out of combat (or you could use a summoned monster for it).
Essence might work too, since not all listed penalites seem over the top, but I suppose that it would depend on the DM.
I have to admit that Blood can't work out well though, at least not with the specialization.
Whenever I make my first level pacts IC, I typically choose Tithe (XP) and Susceptability (Mithral), simply because the XP penality is a felt, tangible effect that makes sense for every patron (who wouldn't want bonus XP?) and Susceptability... I'd just like Mithral to have more uses as a weapon (and it does effectively restrict me from Mithral armor, which is great when it comes to a lack of Spell Failure Chance etc.)
I'm well aware that I don't get a lot of bonus spells unless I have a really high score. The reason I didn't take that as a big factor against Inner Fire is because the martial character is likely to have one big stat. Assuming the elite array, that big stat would start at a 15 and, over the course of the game, turn into a 31 (15 base + 5 inherent + 6 Item + 5 from level up). While this doesn't allow for a lot of high-level spells, it does grant a good amount of casting even without the user going out of his way to specifically buy upgrades for it. Though now that I think about it... While it regenerates faster on it's own, it DOES seem pretty outclassed in terms of sheer number of spells, at least as soon as you have more than a single rune to choose from.
The five maxed rune magics... Yeah, it's a work in progress. I could instead say it's explicitly holy magic that attracts the attention of evil forces instead, but that would still result in a lot of trouble. Of course, even if I did that, the character would still utilize Shadow Rune Magic (because Shadow Conjuration/Evocation and Shades are pretty tempting) and Shadowmastery. Then again, if I make my rune magic charisma based, I could get my hands on a smite good with a few bonus uses (specialized in paladins), double damage (only while smiting paladins) and a specialized berserker (Specialized to only apply the boni to smite) for a paladin-only attack that hits with the normal attack roll +10 + 2x charisma mod and deals an additional weapon dice + strenght mod + 4x character level + 40, which should put a decent dent into their armor.
Depending on the actual charisma, I could even obtain a Specialized Improved Expertise (only while smiting) to reduce the attack roll by 20 and add 80 damage.
That would be a bit expensive, but it would get the paladin problem solved... hopefully.
7882060 Reading your post over, I found myself vaguely uncomfortable with the implications that seem to be behind your ideas. While you are making some concessions for story-based purposes, for the most part your build ideas don't seem to be built around a consistent in-character theme (beyond a vague appeal to "martial, not caster"). Rather, the implication seems to be "here's how I can min-max my build so as to gain bonus CPs while minimizing the drawbacks." Now, there's going to be an element of that in any tightly-focused build, but that's ideally a side-effect of having a concrete theme for your character and being able to dispense with everything that doesn't abet that.
When you're focusing on buying powers that grant more CPs purely for the purpose of gain more CPs, sinking dozens of CPs into relics so that you can multiply their effects, trying to buy limited-theme magic that can be applied to any theme (e.g. shadow-based Rune Magic so that you can use shadow evocation to create any other magic effect), summoning creatures to use them as hit point sinks for Vampirism, Str-focused Inner Fire just because that's already your highest ability score...all of these things don't tell me anything about your character as a character; they tell me that you're min-maxing.
To be perfectly frank, I don't think that's a very compelling character. While there's going to be some element of a build that's taken in reaction to external circumstances, threats, or needs, a character that's little more than a collection of abilities designed to "win" over any opposition isn't one that's very interesting as a character. Moreover, this puts forward the idea that Eclipse is "unbalanced" or "broken" in that it allows for such characters to be made, without showcasing how the system explicitly calls out that the GM should modify or restrict various abilities as necessary to help flavor the game world (this tracks with what you said about your group letting you use the book, since they don't understand it; using everything in the book, with no restrictions or oversight, isn't how it's meant to be used).
The multiplicity of abilities is meant to allow for any and all character concepts to be created with game stats that represent them while still remaining viable with regards to other characters. You can still make a ridiculously powerful character that way, but doing so highlights that the stats are in service to the concept, rather than the concept being discarded altogether in favor of in-game dominance.
I don't want to say "you're doing it wrong," if for no other reason than it's nice to be able to talk about the system with someone else who understands it. But at the same time, it sounds like you're focused more on the numbers, rather than the character. Optimization should be a side effect of a strong character, not a goal unto itself.
7882848 The one that uses the Secret Master and Witchcraft were responses to the "Rune Magic or Witchcraft" question, not part of the actual character idea. I kinda thought that the point of that argument actually was to make it as cost-efficient as possible. Then again, I suppose I could have phrased it better...
The idea of a big relic and using Shadow Rune magic as the primary casting ability actually came from the stories concerning european witches: The "relic" in that case is the hair, which can be sundered or destroyed (or taken and used like a talisman) and, in a lot of stories, witches loose their powers when it is cut (and it grows whenever power is added to it). That's the reason that people that were accused as witches had their hair removed, too. The restriction of "use no casting progression" makes sense with it too, since a witches soul is already sold (if we were to use actual witchcraft, I suppose Isolation would be the right pact).
The reason for the Paladin-Countermeasures (and the Shadow Runes) were more in response to the idea that the character would be attacked by Paladins, or rather, why the character would choose "Evil" magic over good one. "Power" seemed like an appropriate reason for a character to choose the dark side, and if that's the motivation, it would make sense for the Rune Magic in question to be... Well, powerful (and the powers of good would probably not grant Shadow magic anyway, or at least it appears rather uncommon in most stories for the good hero to use shadow abilities). The Paladin-Countermeasures were more of an idea as to how someone would effectively deal with a specific group of creatures hunting you down. For example, a devilish demon hunter might employ such abilities too.
A character could have different preferences (maybe use "Light" as a theme instead) and thus choose to corrupt adept as "obviously good magic that alarms evil creatures", of course. This one just prefered a different path.
So to have a basic, rough character concept, the idea would be:
This is just part of what a character that utilizes the idea of "five maxed rune magics" could have in his description. Maybe add something about a mischievous nature being the cause of his desire for Shadow Magic, but "someone who uses five maxed rune magics" is more of a concept idea then it is a fully-fledged character to begin with, and only by filling in what those rune magics are and how the characters came to appreciate it you get what will be the finished character.
So don't worry, I'm well aware that the simple idea of "someone who uses a lot of rune magic" is FAR from a finished concept.
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Well, yes...and no.
One of Eclipse's greatest strengths is that it has multiple ways to buy different effects, often costing different amounts of CPs. Just look at the differences between Professional, Skill Emphasis, and Skill Focus - all three do the same thing (providing a flat bonus to a single skill), but do so for different costs. Professional (if you get the maximum bonus, gets you +1.67 per CP spent; Skill Emphasis gets you +0.67 per CP spent; Skill Focus gets you +0.5 per CP spent. Insofar as min-maxing goes, it's obvious which one is the better value, which then leads to the question of "why would anyone ever take a less-economical option?"
The answer is that (besides that some options simply might not be available), cost efficiency isn't the primary goal - rather, it's to maintain cost efficiency within the context of the character's theme. Since all of Eclipse's abilities have a default narrative assumption about how they function (though this can be changed easily), this means that it's easy to generate whatever build is necessary to come give stats to a chosen character idea. Once you have that idea down, the efficiency of how CPs are allocated becomes a consequences of that - rather than the primary driving force - as options that are superfluous to that theme can be pared down and done away with.
So having an exercise wherein you cut down on CP costs as a matter of course, without having already identified a strong character idea, is somewhat meaningless; if you don't have a particular character theme in mind, and are giving yourself access to the entirety of Eclipse, then it's something of a given that you'll be able to accomplish whatever it is you're trying to do. The book has enough flexibility to replicate virtually any character-based options in any d20 System book, and more. With that distinct lack of limits in mind, there's no real challenge to cutting your expenditures while maximizing the CPs you can gain/efficiency to which they're spent, which for me robs the entire exercise of a lot of its enjoyment. Yes, it's not that hard to get your low-level character to throw around epic spells, but that's boring if that's all I know about the character.
Optimization, by itself, is a rather pointless game (at least to me).
Typos to banish!
Conjured and conjuring.... Well, Lex is a Mage. But you should try for different words. Like the first one could be changed to 'it evoked(or invoked) images'.
Perhaps Nosey had been preparing?
Someone has been taking notes.
That's what you get for being Nosey!
That was a bad pun, but no regrets!
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My thanks again for doing this; I do appreciate it.
You're right; that first "conjured" has been changed to "evoked."
Fixed.
Taking notes is sort of her thing.
Wow, even for me that was a groaner.
Oh my. A herd? A needed respite at least.
8051283 A blessing from the goddess of love is not something easily denied.
Huh I kind of expected waterlily. Somesort if hero/reviveal crush
10507535 Well, she didn't make the trip over with them, so that kind of put the kibosh on anything happening on that front.